Tuilagi's pre-try celebration

To be fair and consistent, it's only resonable to raise the issue of Alesana Tuilagi's pre-try celebration this morning.

Sure he'd run the best part of 90 meters, brushing aside Giteau on his way to score an aesthetically pleasing try under the sticks and give Samoa a 10-0 lead of the Wallabies...

But what was with the one arm raised in pointing celebration over the last 15 meters and then the giant ill-advised swan dive near the dead ball line? It was eerily reminiscent of something I've seen before.

Was it acceptable? or was it unnecessarily taunting the hapless and stunned Wallabies? did it so dangerously jeopardise such an important score that he should be reprimanded by his coaching team? has he been in Leceister too long? or is he merely re-writing the book on modern wing play?

He's always done it - it is something he did before he joined Tigers.
He's not English so people have never cared because they can't try and stir up hate of the English over it.

His brother is English though right? that doesn't count? :run1:

And since his younger brother opted for England, Tuilagi's try celebration has suddenly been raised as an issue...

I think it's disgustingly arrogant and disrespectful to Australia. He should get a lifetime ban. He's always struck me as an arrogant player. He seems to be ok in interviews and a I don't know that much about him but he's definitely arrogant.

That's how it's supposed to go right?

HammerofThunor wrote:I think it's disgustingly arrogant and disrespectful to Australia. He should get a lifetime ban. He's always struck me as an arrogant player. He seems to be ok in interviews and a I don't know that much about him but he's definitely arrogant.

That's how it's supposed to go right?

Oh absolutely, unforgivably arrogant, if he was punched in the face it would probably be for being arrogant and gobby. And it's definitely because he's been in England too long, where everyone is arrogant remember...*sigh*

Im sure his brother will punch him for it when he gets back home.

Id also like to add that its disusting that Samoa are poaching these English based players. Alice is a Tiger through and through, hes lived hereplenty long enough its just these ridiulous IRB qualifiation laws that means he can only play for a country he abondoned years ago unlike his brother.
His place in the Samoa side should be available to another New Zealander

That's actually funny. I was going to comment on all the English names in the Samoan team, Tuilagi, Mapusua, but I didn't want to rile anyone up

Very good seabiscuit... I get the feeling the road towards the big one has just kicked in. Its slowly pulling us all in like a crab net on the north sea.

Hopefully the humour can stay up there with the obvious rest of it.

Only 56 days to go... but who's counting...

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im sure his brother will punch him for it when he gets back home.

Which one? From recent reports, it seems they're all a bit handy with their fists.

I'm glad players go on with this kind of showboating, it denied him a try agianst Leinster in the HC this year, so it sometimes backfires. Which is hilarious.

TheGreyGhost wrote:That's actually funny. I was going to comment on all the English names in the Samoan team, Tuilagi, Mapusua, but I didn't want to rile anyone up

Seriously though I don't like to see this sort of thing creeping into the game. Ashton is the obvious cultpret for this type of carry on but Jamie Heaslip has done a bit of showboating whilst scoring tries from time to time too.

TheGreyGhost wrote:That's actually funny. I was going to comment on all the English names in the Samoan team, Tuilagi, Mapusua, but I didn't want to rile anyone up

Odd how many New Zealand names sound Samoan, Fijian, Tongan! Oh but that's different

Just for you luckless

Rodders, didn't Dan Luger pioneer the pre-try celebration?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Rodders, didn't Dan Luger pioneer the pre-try celebration?

Possibly but funnily enough I can't remember. Then again Luger wasn't as annoying as Ashton......

Ha, he annoyed me enough!

I actually do have an opinion on this matter. I think celebrations like this, Ashton, Shane Williams and anyone else who does it is a disgrace.

Whats wrong with grounding the ball, getting up take the macho hugging and patting on the head from teammates and carry on?

Celebrations like this basicly show you opponents utter contempt. Zero Respect shown to opponents when behaving like this.

The sooner the IRB pass laws allowing Refs to bin players who do things like that the better. No place in the game of rugby IMO.

Surely being excited to score shows respect for the opponent? Its not like they are turning round and flipping the finger or running up to the opposition bench shouting "in your face ".
Instead they are showing its genuinly exciteing for them and that they feel they have acheived something by scoring the try, that they respect the oppostion enough to consider the game important and scoring a challenge.

Really theres more important things to get upset about, like the colour of someones change strip for example. I do understand though for a Scot it muist be upsetting because your side never gets the opportunity to show off their diving skills.


On th other side it is a dumb thing to do. Castro bust his ribs doing a flying bellyflop in a Jeff final a few years ago. Other players have spilled the ball.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I actually do have an opinion on this matter. I think celebrations like this, Ashton, Shane Williams and anyone else who does it is a disgrace.

Whats wrong with grounding the ball, getting up take the macho hugging and patting on the head from teammates and carry on?

Celebrations like this basicly show you opponents utter contempt. Zero Respect shown to opponents when behaving like this.

The sooner the IRB pass laws allowing Refs to bin players who do things like that the better. No place in the game of rugby IMO.

I agree, although I suggest a workman like nod of the head and then jogging back to the half way line with a straight face without trace of emotion in the manner of Richard Loe is the pinnacle to aspire to.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Surely being excited to score shows respect for the opponent? Its not like they are turning round and flipping the finger or running up to the opposition bench shouting "in your face".

Some of these dives are so rediculous they might as well. When Ashton did it against Italy in the 6N you can see he got a rise from some of the Italian boys....rightly so.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Instead they are showing its genuinly exciteing for them and that they feel they have acheived something by scoring the try, that they respect the oppostion enough to consider the game important and scoring a challenge.

We all know it's not from excitement, just touch the ball down, pump your fist do whatever, but this diving over the line is just a way of saying I'm better than you, you can't catch me and there is nothing you can do about it. disgraceful

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Really theres more important things to get upset about, like the colour of someones change strip for example. I do understand though for a Scot it muist be upsetting because your side never gets the opportunity to show off their diving skills.

Some of what you say is true, Scotland don't really score many tries I can agree with that, but If we did I would be agitated if any of our players did it. It was embarassing when Tim Visser did it for the Baa Baas and he is probably one of my favourite players at Edinburgh.

There are more important things to get upset about, but to be honest this is one of my major bug bearers at the moment because it is completely unneccesary. True players of brilliance : Carter, BOD, Habana, Wilko....none of them seem to perform rediculous dives and I would bet that they all feel pretty "excited" too.

It all comes down to respect for your opposition, diving over the line like a ballet dancer pretending to be an eagle doesn't qualify.

Well there is always something an old coach told me - act like you have been there before. I don't hate these things, but also don't really care for them either. But, don't you think it silly for a player on any team to raise the "We are number one" finger for team which is not number one? Kind of makes the player look like 'number two'.

What about the celebration by Digby Ioane in the Super 15 final? A bit more than Tuilagi and Ashton? That was way over the top for me.

Some of these dives are so rediculous they might as well. When Ashton did it against Italy in the 6N you can see he got a rise from some of the Italian boys....rightly so.
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So if a player scores a try and dives it's bad, but if the oppo chase him the whole way wait for him to score and then give him a shove in the back when he hasn't got the ball it's a good thing?

That is some bizarre thinking!

yappysnap wrote:
So if a player scores a try and dives it's bad, but if the oppo chase him the whole way wait for him to score and then give him a shove in the back when he hasn't got the ball it's a good thing?

That is some bizarre thinking!

Not really, back when I was playing if someone dived over the line like Ashton does I would be pushing him and basicly asking ;

"whats your problem dobber?"

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Really theres more important things to get upset about, like the colour of someones change strip for example. I do understand though for a Scot it muist be upsetting because your side never gets the opportunity to show off their diving skills.

Perhaps instead Chris Paterson should celebrate each time before he inevitably scores his kicks!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:
So if a player scores a try and dives it's bad, but if the oppo chase him the whole way wait for him to score and then give him a shove in the back when he hasn't got the ball it's a good thing?

That is some bizarre thinking!

Not really, back when I was playing if someone dived over the line like Ashton does I would be pushing him and basicly asking ;

"whats your problem dobber?"

Why?

It's just a dive, a shove afterwords in my book is worse. How about if you were just running along waiting for a pass and I pushed you before you had the ball?

Differant Kettle of fish entirely, in fact comparing those 2 scenarios is a complete waste of time.

Pushing someone off the ball while play is ongoing is a sin binning offence, especialy if it prevents the player from receiving the pass.

Shoving someone after they have in my opinion purposefully dived over the line in a maner to antagonize a player or team is a shocking display of sportsmanship in a game where we pride ourselves on being above the antics of "wendyball" players.

Swan diving across the line is no differant from any Premiership footballer wipping his shirt off and swinging it around his head after he has scored, the only differance is the football player will get booked.

I'm not sure why exactly people feel that celebrating with a dive is offensive or disrespectful to the opposition. By diving a player is simply celebrating their achievement of scoring - celebrations happen in cricket, football, tennis, all to similar degrees. It's not like the player is celebrating the opposition's mistakes, which would be disrespectful. In my opinion players scoring a try have earned the right to celebrate with a dive, it is totally harmless and inoffensive.

.

I really can't see what the issue is here. Samoa was pumped, they were motivated, and he celebrated.

whether it was deemed arrogant and disrespectful is in the eye of the beholder.

These guys are role models to young Midi and Mini rugby players. I'm almost certain that young players will have tried to copy these dives and failed in the Scoring attempts or worse hurt themselves.

Digby Ioane was mentioned earlier and his try celebrations are an abomination too.

Score the try, pump a fist and get some manly backslaps/head rubs from team mates but show some restraint, discipline and respect from your opponents by not milking it.

for all intents and purposes the try has been scored - I know that 'technically' it hasn't, but I can only think of one or two occasions (out of hundreds/thousands) like this when the player actually failed to score. sorry, it's just that to me it's not offensive in the slightest

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:There are more important things to get upset about, but to be honest this is one of my major bug bearers at the moment because it is completely unneccesary. True players of brilliance : Carter, BOD, Habana, Wilko....none of them seem to perform rediculous dives and I would bet that they all feel pretty "excited" too.

Really? Watch this link from 1:05-1:20.

I don't want the emotion and character dragged out of the game. Henman was famous for his fist pump, but in my eyes he was as boring as watching paint dry. He also never won anything of note. Wingers want to score tries and want to score tries that win games and tournaments. When they or any other player does so they should be allowed to celebrate. If the opposition think the celebration is disrespectful then next time he gets the ball line him up and dump him onto his behind!

Surely the professional thing IS to dive?

If a winger is right on the touchline, he can't be put in touch if he's in mid-air as he grounds the ball. Therefore in the interests of practice and consistency every winger should dive so they get better at it!

Aukster, there's a difference between diving to get in at the corner and giving it the full bellyflop under the posts when there's no defender in sight.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Aukster, there's a difference between diving to get in at the corner and giving it the full bellyflop under the posts when there's no defender in sight.

This is the key point pretty much every one is missing. Diving to the try line is ok. Diving spread eagled pulling a silly face with noone near you is just show boating. No room for it in rugby.

Alba gu bràth

Does seem an awful lot of fuss over nothing, but then thats a given with GG.

Worst case - driving up aggression in the opposition and maybe inspiring them to play better
- leaving yourself more open to the defender following up 'accidently' sliding into/ landing ontop of you
- dropping the ball and looking like an idiot.

This has nothing to do with Grey Ghost, this is to do with respect for opponents and not humiliating them when scoring against them.

The thread's author has no bearing on the issue, certainly to me.

If Rugger Radge was in charge of the IRB show boating like some of the people mentioned on this thread would be punishable with 10 minutes in the bin.

Radge,

I think youre wrong or perhaps more fairly exagerating the importnace of teh issue, but I respect that you are at least applying the dislike evenly. Youre hardly alone in your view, Martin Johnson for one would have you round for tea so long as you didnt swan dive over his doorstep shouting about Scotlands draw over his side last year.

GG's point in the article however was to highlight the double standard that was applied by so many when it came to Ashton swan diving vs many other players in exactly the same situation.

Whichever side of the debate youre on its a refreshing change from the old 606 debate which centered on Ashton being English. Sometimes some people look for things to be offended by as a reason to hate. Light hearted banter is one thing, but some of the bile that gets dredged up to form opinions shows the worst side of nationalism.

My take on the issue is that celebrating a score is fine, and I've no issues with celebratory diving over the line. Players have been doing it for generations (most players in fact dive over the try line when they don't actually need to). I think Ashton's dive is fine, as is was when Shane Williams did it against Scotland, as it was when Rokocoko used to as still does it. Pretty sure Scott Gibbs did something similar in 1999 against England at Wembley, and I certainly had no issues there. No issues with any of that.

The line for me is taunting the opposition (i.e. offering them the ball jokingly when over the line, teasing a player trying to catch you whilst crossing the line). That sort of this is unsporting and has no place.

Football for me has actually gone the wrong way on this issue. Yellow cards for taking your shirt off or going near the crowd when scoring is a ridiculous punishment when you compare it to reckless tackling (which often carries the same offence).

I heard that the sponsors pushed through the yellow card for taking your shirt off. When a player scores the camera switch to him and emblazoned on everyone's television screen is a clear shot of the sponsors logo on the front of his shirt. When they take their shirt off however the sponsors logo isn't there. Considering they pay millions and millions for these sponsorship deals, they want every second of coverage they can get.

I agree with your other point though and I would add crossing the line and running away from the posts to make the kick harder for yourself or your team (as some have done recently).

I don't think there should be anything specifically punishable in the laws, but coaches have a duty to stamp out unsporting play (especially when it offers no benefit to their team). Opposition teams can also help, by (legally) hitting the worse offenders as hard as they can.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
GG's point in the article however was to highlight the double standard that was applied by so many when it came to Ashton swan diving vs many other players in exactly the same situation.

Exac-ly. I was actually gob-smacked that nobody mentioned what was almost a complete carbon-copy of Ashton's try scoring performances. So how about give me a small amount of credit for being balanced and applying my views on pre-try celebrations when they don't happen to be carried out by an Englishman instead of assuming it's some kind of dark subtle barb?

I would say the same thing whether the player was wearing white, blue, or black.

TheGreyGhost wrote:[So how about give me a small amount of credit for being balanced and applying my views on pre-try celebrations when they don't happen to be carried out by an Englishman instead of assuming it's some kind of dark subtle barb?

I would say the same thing whether the player was wearing white, blue, or black.

hahahahaha (you do realise that we dont have a blue away shirt anymore right?)

Still really can't see why people take offense at it. It's probably happened since rugby was first started.


And then some say it's fine to attack the player off the ball over it.

Frankly odd.

yappysnap wrote:Still really can't see why people take offense at it. It's probably happened since rugby was first started.

Well as the popular legend goes...

Ellis, for the first time, disregarded this rule, and on catching the ball, instead of retiring backwards, rushed forwards with the ball in his hands towards the opposite goal, upon reaching the goal line whence he dived in the air in the manner of a swan whilst clutching the ball to his breast under one arm and pointing unto the heavens with the free arm. Upon landing on the ground a town boy and a foundationer did henceforth proceed to put the boot in yalping "feckin' asking for it you disrespectful twallot"

presumably the Warwickshire "town boy" that you refer to was an Irish immigrant, given his choice of curse word.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Still really can't see why people take offense at it. It's probably happened since rugby was first started.

Well as the popular legend goes...

Ellis, for the first time, disregarded this rule, and on catching the ball, instead of retiring backwards, rushed forwards with the ball in his hands towards the opposite goal, upon reaching the goal line whence he dived in the air in the manner of a swan whilst clutching the ball to his breast under one arm and pointing unto the heavens with the free arm. Upon landing on the ground a town boy and a foundationer did henceforth proceed to put the boot in yalping "feckin' asking for it you disrespectful twallot"

Boo! Boo! Down with this sort of thing!!

GG made me laugh! 'Twallot', word of the day for me!

Thats a cracker GreyGhost...say did that really happen?.....