Anthemic crowd songs.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:19 pm

Not including official national anthems:

England have the dreadful Swing Low which is a nondescript American slavery protest song.
Scotland have the Corries' Flower of Scotland which works only in Calcutta Cup challenges.
Wales have Delihla and Bread of Heaven. But rarely sing any more.
Ireland have the shoulder to shoulder thing (which they don't sing except in their multiple home game starts)
France just sing La Marseillaise which is pretty bloodthirsty - but as they haven't produced a popular anthem since Edith Piaf, that's hardly surprising.
New Zealand. Nothing
SA. Nothing
Australia have Waltzing Matilda but are too embarrassed to sing it. But a great anthem.

We've all produced bands which have created anthemic crowd pleasers which could be adapted.

For England I would propose Hey Jude which is at least English and represents a determinedly aspirational future.

by **RDW** Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Eh, flower of Scotland is our national anthem?? Doh

by chewed_mintie Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:29 pm

Neil Finn of Crowded House fame (he rated by none other than Macca as the greatest songwriter alive - probably said after dropping acid) tried and failed to introduce an anthem for the AB's failed WC campaign in 1999 with "Can you hear us". Wasn't a bad effort, just wasn't a song one would want to sing in public for fear of ostracisation.

NZer's on the whole are more reserved when it comes to singing at games and I guess the opinion would be if you are singing then it must be a boring game to watch (more cultured NZ travellers like myself would disagree). On the flipside I find the PA's used at any rugby match in NZ embarrassing. The same songs, Slice of Heaven, Why does love do this to me, Won't give up, Anchor Me (if ever there was a song NOT intended for a rugby match) et al.

I would prefer songs like Shihad's Home Again or maybe dip into HLAH's back catalogue...

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Eh, flower of Scotland is our national anthem??

OK. So it still only rouses the clans against the English.

Might need a utility crowd anthem for the rest...

Walk 500 miles?

by caoimhincentre Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:32 pm

Ireland, Fields of Atherny?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:32 pm

Portnoy wrote:Outside official national anthems

England have the dreadful Swing Low which is a nondescript American slavery protest song.
Scotland have the Corries' Flower of Scotland which works only in Calcutta Cup challenges.
Wales have Delihla and Bread of Heaven. But rarely sing any more.
Ireland have the shoulder to shoulder thing (which they don't sing except in their multiple home game starts)
France just sing La Marseillaise which is pretty bloodthirsty - but as they haven't produced a popular anthem since Edith Piaf, that's hardly surprising.
New Zealand. Nothing
SA. Nothing
Australia have Waltzing Matilda but are too embarrassed to sing it. But a great anthem.

We've all produced bands which have created anthemic crowd pleasers which could be adapted.

For England I would propose Hey Jude which is at least English and represents a determinedly aspirational future.

Portnoy, sorry, but this must be one of your least factually correct posts ever, possibly a new record on all of 606v2 rugby!

Ireland's "shoulder to shoulder thing" is sung as part of the dual national anthem package. Scotland's Flower of Scotland is sung as the national anthem, and also in all matches, not just those vs England (you could add that 'Caledonia' is also sung, and I've also heard 'Scotland the Brave' and 'Highland Cathedral' from time to time, not to mention 'You can stick ...'!!).

Braveheart

by Cari Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:36 pm

Portnoy - actually the Welsh still sing quite a bit at internationals - usually it's Cwm Rhondda (or Bread of Heaven as you call it) but more of Hymns and Arias. Only the choirs beforehand sing Delilah, which I loathe.

by **rodders** Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:39 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:Ireland, Fields of Atherny?

Yeah thats hard to beat alright for both Munster and Ireland.

Stand Up for the Ulsternen sure stirs the soul though! guinness

That "shoulder to shoulder" thing is Ireland's Call, which is Irelands official Rugby anthem and played before every match.

by Thomond Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:42 pm

[quote="roddersm"]

That "shoulder to shoulder" thing is Ireland's Call, which is Irelands official Rugby anthem and played before every match.

It is also officially awful.

by **Notch** Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:44 pm

No-one in the crowd for Ireland really sings 'Ireland's Call' bar as part of the anthems.

The unofficial anthem of Irish Rugby is the The Fields of Athenry, surely?

by **rodders** Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:45 pm

[quote="Thomond"]

roddersm wrote:

That "shoulder to shoulder" thing is Ireland's Call, which is Irelands official Rugby anthem and played before every match.

It is also officially awful.

Ah come on now Thomond I'm sure it brings a wee tear to your eye....

"Come the day and come the hour, come the power and the glory.....!" guinness

by **rodders** Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:49 pm

How very Irish to dislike our own anthem more than everyone else... Whistle

I suppose Irelands Call is the Irish anthem equivilant to Geordan Murphy, Roger Wilson or James Downey, perfectly palatable to people outside Ireland but treated with contempt or apathy by many of those within...... Wink

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:51 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Portnoy, sorry, but this must be one of your least factually correct posts ever, possibly a new record on all of 606v2 rugby!

1.
Ireland's "shoulder to shoulder thing" is sung as part of the dual national anthem package.

2.
Scotland's Flower of Scotland is sung as the national anthem, and also in all matches, not just those vs England (you could add that 'Caledonia' is also sung, and I've also heard 'Scotland the Brave' and 'Highland Cathedral' from time to time, not to mention 'You can stick ...'!!).

Well I have to say that

1. The Shoulder to shoulder thingy remains in the locker after the kick-off.

2. Scotland the Brave and Highland Cathedral or Caledonia (which I'm not immediately familiar with but I'm sure I'd know if I heard them).

Celtic nations are the lands of of the popular folk songs. And renowned for popular artists/bands that create anthemic songs. But like England, they don't pick up on the easy pickings.

by TheGreyGhost Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:52 pm

That "shoulder to shoulder" thing is Ireland's Call, which is Irelands official Rugby anthem and played before every match.

There was me thinking the lyrics "Ouch! My shoulder, my shoulder"

by Guest Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:54 pm

As, yes it is.

The Scots also sing Loch Lomond don't they? They certainly played it when I went (I remember because I love it) and that's a great song to sing along too.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:58 pm

Aye Loch Lomond is a popular one. Caledonia is sung sometimes too.

by **Notch** Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:02 pm

Portnoy wrote:[]
Well I have to say that

1. The Shoulder to shoulder thingy remains in the locker after the kick-off.

Sorry Portnoys; since 2008 I've been to 11 test matches featuring Ireland and I haven't heard Ireland's Call sung in the crowd in any of them, outside of the anthems at the start!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:05 pm

Rev, 'Wild Mountain Thyme' Seems A Semi-popular ditty Braveheart

by Guest Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:08 pm

That and Caledonia are favourites of mine too As. I didn't know Wild Mountain Thyme till recently though.

by caoimhincentre Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:15 pm

Another great at an article Portnoy the WUM

by PenfroPete Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:15 pm

Portnoy wrote: Wales have Delihla and Bread of Heaven. But rarely sing any more..

Just a few for Wales, off the top of my head

RACHIE - I bob un sydd ffyddlon. English translation of the first verse
For everyone who is faithful
Beneath his banner
Jesus has a crown
Above in the kingdom of heaven
Hosts of God and satan
Are now clashing:
The children have their lot
In the great war

CALON LAN –transalation
I don't ask for a luxurious life,
The world's gold or its fine pearls,
I ask for a happy heart,
An honest heart, a pure heart.
Chorus
A pure heart full of goodness,
It is more beautiful than the lovely lily,
None but a pure heart can sing,
Sing in the day, sing in the night.

GWAHODDIAD –Transalation
I hear thy tender voice
Calling me
To come and wash my sins
In the River of Calvary.

Lord, here I am
At your call
Wash my spirit in the blood
That flows from Calvary.

SOSPAN FACH– translation of a ‘nonsense’ song
Mary Anne's finger has withered,
And David the servant is not very well.
My baby in the cradle is crying
And the cat has scratched little Johnny.
The little saucepan boiling on the fire,
The large saucepan boiling on the floor.
The cat has scratched little Johnny.

And no, those don’t rhyme, because they are translations

Hyms and Arias
Cwm Rhondda (as you say Bread of Haven, more correctly referred to as Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah)

by SubsBench Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:24 pm

Calon Lan still sometimes gets sung and as pointed out by Cari so does Cwm Rhondda although it tends only to be the chorus of both and the chorus of Hymns and Arias. Despite my tender young age of, cough, 35, I remember verses and the chorus' of Calon Lan, Cwm Rhondda and Un Bob Un Sydd Ffyddlon amongst others being sung in Cardiff Arms Park, mainly from the West terrace. Dont remember anyone singing Hymns and Arias there, although I'm sure they probably did.

In Parc Y Scarlets you can still get renditions of the old hymns.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Notch wrote:
Portnoy wrote:[]
Well I have to say that

1. The Shoulder to shoulder thingy remains in the locker after the kick-off.

Sorry
Portnoys; since 2008 I've been to 11 test matches featuring Ireland and
I haven't heard Ireland's Call sung in the crowd in any of them,
outside of the anthems at the start!

Precisely. Left on the touchline after the anthems as I said.

Athenray would be better but apparently it is a bit provincially centred.

Jerusalem would be a great anthem for the English. But sadly it appears that almost nobody knows the words.

Education Education Education...

by caoimhincentre Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:30 pm

I Can't believe you haven't been barred yet. why must you purposely come onto the site insult and wind up people

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:30 pm

I love 'Wild Mountain Thyme,' Asbo. The Byrds' version is beautiful.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:44 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:I Can't believe you haven't been barred yet. why must you purposely come onto the site insult and wind up people

Just complain to the mods/admins caoimhincentre.

I'm not sure that I'm winding up deliberately and intentionally.

by caoimhincentre Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:46 pm

so you don't think belittling countries national anthems is insulting?

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:47 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I love 'Wild Mountain Thyme,' Asbo. The Byrds' version is beautiful.

Wild mountain thyme is my favourite song I sing/hum to myself whilst I do the gardening.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:48 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:so you don't think belittling countries national anthems is insulting?

Did you read the OP mate?

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:48 pm

Ah, 'I bob un sy'n Ffyddlon' and 'Mi glywaf Dyner Lais.' Heart-swelling, lump-in-the-throat stuff.

by caoimhincentre Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:49 pm

i sure did

by PenfroPete Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:50 pm

Portnoy wrote: Athenray would be better but apparently it is a bit provincially centred.

Education Education Education...

Indeed, learn to spell ATHENRY Whistle

I assume by 'provincially centred' you mean Munster. Well, Athenry is actually in Connacht (Co. Galway). I didn't notice it being too 'provincially centred' when the Leinster boys were singing it in Cardiff on the HEC Final weekend recently

The song has long been used by supporters of the Galway and Athenry Hurling teams plus at the football world cup in 1990 it was adopted by Republic of Ireland supporters. The song is also associated with the Connacht, Munster, London Irish and Ireland rugby union teams. thumbsup

PS - as a rugby song, Delilah is crepe - FACT mad

by **rodders** Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:52 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:so you don't think belittling countries national anthems is insulting?

Well I don't mean to be pedantic, but in Portnoys defence it's actually mainly the Irish fans who've belittled the Irish anthem..... Whistle

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:53 pm

Chill folks, good debate so far - Portnoy, maybe take the couple of actual national anthems out of your list of "non-national anthems" in the OP, otherwise a handful of people are just misinterpreting each other and winding themselves up

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:54 pm

So the preamble "Outside official national anthems" counts for nothing?

I was speaking about the crowd songs during the game. The ones that the fans sing spontaneously.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:54 pm

BTW, does anyone know what the Afrikaaner fans sing now that "Die Stem" is verboten?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:56 pm

Portnoy wrote:So the preamble "Outside official national anthems" counts for nothing?

I was speaking about the crowd songs during the game. The ones that the fans sing spontaneously.

Hmmm, I've misinterpreted the phrase "outside national anthems" - I suspect a few others here have too Whistle

by Cari Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:57 pm

Penfro - I HATE Delilah, and I can't understand why it's been associated with rugby in recent years. It's a song about a man who murders his partner in a jealous rage FFS. If they had to choose a Tom Jones song why couldn't it have been It's Not Unusual or What's New Pussycat? At least they're more uplifting.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:58 pm

Well, part of 'Die Stem' has been incorporated into the South African national anthem, Portnoys. Other than that, I don't know.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:00 pm

Kiwireddevil wrote:
Chill folks, good debate so far - Portnoy, maybe take the couple of actual national anthems out of your list of "non-national anthems" in the OP, otherwise a handful of people are just misinterpreting each other and winding themselves up

OK chief. Flower of Scotland is apparently an official NA.

I need to be advised as to which is the official anthem of All-Ireland though.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:04 pm

Cari wrote:Penfro - I HATE Delilah, and I can't understand why it's been associated with rugby in recent years. It's a song about a man who murders his partner in a jealous rage FFS. If they had to choose a Tom Jones song why couldn't it have been It's Not Unusual or What's New Pussycat? At least they're more uplifting.

Cari,

I agree its hardly a ruby song or certainly not one that we sang in the club houses when I was playing through the 80 an 90s.

by Cari Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:04 pm

Portnoy this is the national anthem of the Irish Republic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_national_anthem

This is the anthem for the Irish rugby team:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland%27s_Call

Simples!

by PenfroPete Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:04 pm

Portnoy wrote:SA. Nothing .

Shosholoza
Kule ... Zontaba
Stimela siphume South Africa

Wen'uyabaleka
Wen'uyabaleka
Kule ... Zontaba
Stimela siphume South Africa

Shosholoza
Kule ... Zontaba
Stimela siphume South Africa

Wen'uyabaleka
Wen'uyabaleka
Kule ... Zontaba
Stimela siphume South Africa music

Kiwireddevil wrote:BTW, does anyone know what the Afrikaaner fans sing now that "Die Stem" is verboten?

As Lucky says part has been incorporated into the RSA National Anthem which uses 5 different langauges (Xhosa, Zulu, Sotho, Afrikaans and English) It shifts and ends in a different key, so it sometimes sounds like 2 anthems back to back .
The Afrikaans bit -
"Uit die blou van onse hemel,
Uit die diepte van ons see,
Oor ons ewige gebergtes,
Waar die kranse antwoord gee"

Transalation
"From the blue of our heaven,
From the depth of our sea,
Over our everlasting mountains,
Where the echoing cliffs resound"

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:23 pm

But do they sing it when they're winning? I really don't recall a SH team's supporters breaking out into spontaneous collective song.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:25 pm

Portnoy wrote:But do they sing it when they're winning? I really don't recall a SH team's supporters breaking out into spontaneous collective song.

No singing please, we're New Zealanders Wink

The Saffers do sing on occasion - Die Stem was fairly common at Ellis Park.

by TheGreyGhost Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:28 pm

I heard Tutira Mai Nga Iwi break out spontaneously once at a game in France. That was pretty weird.

by Portnoy Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Kiwi,

Anthems aren't difficult:

Once a jolly All Black
Shat upon a wallaby
[fill in the rest]

well if the opposition don't use their own songs... Wink

by Breadvan Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:42 pm

I think Delilah is played at the MS as a token 'Welsh song'. An idea by the WRU to get the crowd going before a match (in the book 'seeing red') The fact that it is more known as the Stoke City fans anthem, who sing it better than any rugby crowd, makes all the more strange.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:45 pm

The connection with Stoke is due to Tony Pullis theyir Welsh manger I believe.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:47 pm

I assume by 'provincially centred' you mean Munster. Well, Athenry is actually in Connacht (Co. Galway). I didn't notice it being too 'provincially centred' when the Leinster boys were singing it in Cardiff on the HEC Final weekend recently

I presume he meant that it was centred more to the Republic and not so much to the Northern Irish contingent. Do the Northern Irish really go in for the English bashing like the Irish tend to (normally in a good natured but we do not forget, kind of way)?

I once ended up singing a song post game (very drunkenly) with some random Tigers supporters. It was quite funny and started off with the line "Oh and we hate Stuart Barnes..." no idea how the rest went. I'm sure the term Pests was used but I think it was free of bad language. Could be used by England.

Portnoy I know Jerusalem, not really the kind of song you can bash into quickly though. You might as well go for Land of Hope and Glory if you're doing Jerusalem. Could do Rule Britannia though, that's got a very memorable chorus and doesn't take forever.

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