watched mosley margarito last night

watched the mosley vs margarito fight for the first time last night on primetime. have to admit that mosley looked really sharp that night beating him to the punch and showing off his speed, power, accuracy and good body punching against a bigger stronger opponent, who did fight in straight lines. also he never had a problem with his stamina throughout the nine rounds. a year later he fought mayweather and was totally outclassed and people were putting it down to mosley being gassed after 2 rounds. can a fighter really be that out of shape fighting one of the biggest fights of his career. i don't believe mosley was gassed at all just that he came up against one of the best fighters for the last couple of decades and had no answer for him. do u really think he was gassed or mayweather is that good to make ppl look average?

a bit of both i think. when your convidence goes and you think your guna be beat it makes every effort so much more demanding.

Mayweather made him look worse than he was but he has deteriorated since Margarito fight and continues to do so.

I said to brother after the Mosley vs Marg fight "Mosley was just on something that night", to which my brother replied "exactly, but on what....". He may of had a point!

Valero's Conscience wrote:Mayweather made him look worse than he was but he has deteriorated since Margarito fight and continues to do so.

I said to brother after the Mosley vs Marg fight "Mosley was just on something that night", to which my brother replied "exactly, but on what....". He may of had a point!

Eh? Are you implying nefarious behaviour from one or both parties involved? Personally I think Margarito's handwraps being discovered to be...questionable...immediately beforehand probably contributed to his poor performance.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Valero's Conscience wrote:Mayweather made him look worse than he was but he has deteriorated since Margarito fight and continues to do so.

I said to brother after the Mosley vs Marg fight "Mosley was just on something that night", to which my brother replied "exactly, but on what....". He may of had a point!

Eh? Are you implying nefarious behaviour from one or both parties involved? Personally I think Margarito's handwraps being discovered to be...questionable...immediately beforehand probably contributed to his poor performance.

My brother 'suggested' Mosley was juiced for the fight and his next fight against Mayweather, was not only against a defensive master but 15 months down the line and under strict doping controls which collectively made him look poop!

I think the hand wraps played a big part in the version of Mosley we seen that night. That would bring the best out in any fighter.

prettyboykev wrote:I think the hand wraps played a big part in the version of Mosley we seen that night. That would bring the best out in any fighter.

probably did have a part to play. mosley was was so attacking that night and stopped marg in his tracks. have to admit that marg is such a tough guy though. the amount of shots he took was unbelievable.

ironclad wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I think the hand wraps played a big part in the version of Mosley we seen that night. That would bring the best out in any fighter.

probably did have a part to play. mosley was was so attacking that night and stopped marg in his tracks. have to admit that marg is such a tough guy though. the amount of shots he took was unbelievable.

He has an excellent chin but then so does Mosley who shrugged off a few of Margs shots. I said it yesterday that I felt that was one of Mosleys best performances. That's how you need to deal with Marg because if you can't back him up he will just keep throwing. That's why I worry for Cotto in their rematch he's damaged goods and may still be haunted by their first fight.

prettyboykev wrote:

ironclad wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I think the hand wraps played a big part in the version of Mosley we seen that night. That would bring the best out in any fighter.

probably did have a part to play. mosley was was so attacking that night and stopped marg in his tracks. have to admit that marg is such a tough guy though. the amount of shots he took was unbelievable.

He has an excellent chin but then so does Mosley who shrugged off a few of Margs shots. I said it yesterday that I felt that was one of Mosleys best performances. That's how you need to deal with Marg because if you can't back him up he will just keep throwing. That's why I worry for Cotto in their rematch he's damaged goods and may still be haunted by their first fight.

i think the fight with cotto will be similar with the first. marg will be too strong for cotto and will just grind him down late rounds

ironclad wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

ironclad wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I think the hand wraps played a big part in the version of Mosley we seen that night. That would bring the best out in any fighter.

probably did have a part to play. mosley was was so attacking that night and stopped marg in his tracks. have to admit that marg is such a tough guy though. the amount of shots he took was unbelievable.

He has an excellent chin but then so does Mosley who shrugged off a few of Margs shots. I said it yesterday that I felt that was one of Mosleys best performances. That's how you need to deal with Marg because if you can't back him up he will just keep throwing. That's why I worry for Cotto in their rematch he's damaged goods and may still be haunted by their first fight.

i think the fight with cotto will be similar with the first. marg will be too strong for cotto and will just grind him down late rounds

I think you might be right as much as I would love to see Marg take a beating I don't think Cotto is the man to do it.

[quote="prettyboykev"]

ironclad wrote:I think you might be right as much as I would love to see Marg take a beating I don't think Cotto is the man to do it.

Pacquiao did it. Mosley did it. How much more do you want him beaten?!? Bloodthirsty sadist!!

i actually feel sorry for Marg to be honest. He has been caught out against Mosley, no proof of it happening against Cotto. He served his band and got demolished by Pacman which we knew anyway. Give him a break. Hope he beats Cotto to a pulp to negate all your views on his "hand wraps" in the first fight.

d260005p wrote:i actually feel sorry for Marg to be honest. He has been caught out against Mosley, no proof of it happening against Cotto. He served his band and got demolished by Pacman which we knew anyway. Give him a break. Hope he beats Cotto to a pulp to negate all your views on his "hand wraps" in the first fight.

I've gone through this before, but....

Cheaters are cheaters, and they're very habitual and repetitive characters. Going by the prime example of Billy Collins vs Luis Resto. Resto was found to have underpadded gloves and hardened handwraps, as a result he ended Collin's career and was banned for life. It only came out years later that it wasn't the first time he'd engaged in such a disgusting act.

If you seriously expect me, or others, to believe that Margarito only used those wraps for the Mosley fight and that fight only then you can quite simply do one.

We should look at the character of cheaters - Dwain Chambers, Marion Jones etc etc all got caught out, they then came out with the truth that they'd been cheating for quite some time.

I hope Cotto knocks Margarito into next week, you should bet everything you own which would give me greater satisfaction to boot.

d260005p wrote:i actually feel sorry for Marg to be honest. He has been caught out against Mosley, no proof of it happening against Cotto. He served his band and got demolished by Pacman which we knew anyway. Give him a break. Hope he beats Cotto to a pulp to negate all your views on his "hand wraps" in the first fight.

Give him a break? The man that had concrete in his hands? Pathetic.

Well Pacquiao has not taken a drugs test to fight Mayweather therefore raising suspicion that he is on something. I dont think he is to be fair, but he is doing no favours by not doing it. Are you putting him in the same bracket as Marg? There is no PROOF that Marg cheated in the fight with Cotto as is there is no proof that Pac is on drugs, but how can we tell? We dont. We go on hear say. You want Pac smashed in? Ill bet you whatever you want that Marg beats Cotto

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

d260005p wrote:i actually feel sorry for Marg to be honest. He has been caught out against Mosley, no proof of it happening against Cotto. He served his band and got demolished by Pacman which we knew anyway. Give him a break. Hope he beats Cotto to a pulp to negate all your views on his "hand wraps" in the first fight.

Give him a break? The man that had concrete in his hands? Pathetic.

Has he used the concrete in a fight? No. Pathetic.

d260005p wrote:Well Pacquiao has not taken a drugs test to fight Mayweather therefore raising suspicion that he is on something.

Not really the same though, is it ?

No matter whether or not some are suspicious of Manny, there is no record of his having cheated. By contrast, there is in the case of Margarito.

Has he used the concrete in a fight? No. Pathetic.

Go and google "plaster of paris" and then you might, just might (i am banking on the fact your IQ ranking is above 0) realise that he did indeed have "concrete" in his gloves.

You might want to be in full possession of facts before calling others pathetic.

The Manny situation is different though because at the minute he has not been proven to have taken anything so has to be considered innocent for all his fights. Now if he was to fail a test against Marquez people would be well within their rights to question if he was at it in all his other major fights.

The thing for me with Marg is does he want us to believe he used them against Mosley who had lost a few already but didn't use them against an unbeaten Cotto, who had already beaten Mosley, seems a bit of a stretch to me to be honest.

HumanWindmill wrote:

d260005p wrote:Well Pacquiao has not taken a drugs test to fight Mayweather therefore raising suspicion that he is on something.

Not really the same though, is it ?

No matter whether or not some are suspicious of Manny, there is no record of his having cheated. By contrast, there is in the case of Margarito.

Yeh that his trainer wrapped up his hands wrong and Marg had no idea. Whether thats true or not we dont know. What is true is that IT IS the same for Pacquiao as he could be on something thats giving him a lot of unfair advantages against his opponents such as speed and power which can do damage. IE Cotto and Margarito where he smashed them to peices. Probably worse then what Marg did to Cotto. So yes, it is the same, he just hasnt been proven guilty. Margarito has not used concrete in his hands. Prove it.

There is a simple phrase though that underpins the legal system in this and indeed most countries and that is "innocent till proven guilty" Marg has been proven guilty, Manny hasn't. Is the key distinction in all this.

BALTIMORA wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:I think you might be right as much as I would love to see Marg take a beating I don't think Cotto is the man to do it.

Pacquiao did it. Mosley did it. How much more do you want him beaten?!? Bloodthirsty sadist!!

I don't like seeing fighters get hurt but Marg is a cheat he could have killed Mosley and that's not an exaggeration. The Pac beating was better than the Mosley one. If he gets past Cotto I would like to see him fight a lion or a tiger next. That should just about sort it.

d260005p wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

d260005p wrote:Well Pacquiao has not taken a drugs test to fight Mayweather therefore raising suspicion that he is on something.

Not really the same though, is it ?

No matter whether or not some are suspicious of Manny, there is no record of his having cheated. By contrast, there is in the case of Margarito.

Yeh that his trainer wrapped up his hands wrong and Marg had no idea. Whether thats true or not we dont know. What is true is that IT IS the same for Pacquiao as he could be on something thats giving him a lot of unfair advantages against his opponents such as speed and power which can do damage. IE Cotto and Margarito where he smashed them to peices. Probably worse then what Marg did to Cotto. So yes, it is the same, he just hasnt been proven guilty. Margarito has not used concrete in his hands. Prove it.

So you know that Manny is guilty, do you ? The whole world knows that Margarito is.

rowley wrote:There is a simple phrase though that underpins the legal system in this and indeed most countries and that is "innocent till proven guilty" Marg has been proven guilty, Manny hasn't. Is the key distinction in all this.

True, and i agree with that. I just think that even though YES he has been proven guilty with the handwraps against Mosley, he never used them. We cant say he used them against Cotto just because he tried against Mosley. You can not prove it and neither can i. Thats why i say in my first comment that they should give him a break regarding Cotto fight. Like you said, innocent to proven guilty. He isnt guilty for that as there is no proof.

HumanWindmill wrote:

d260005p wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

d260005p wrote:Well Pacquiao has not taken a drugs test to fight Mayweather therefore raising suspicion that he is on something.

Not really the same though, is it ?

No matter whether or not some are suspicious of Manny, there is no record of his having cheated. By contrast, there is in the case of Margarito.

Yeh that his trainer wrapped up his hands wrong and Marg had no idea. Whether thats true or not we dont know. What is true is that IT IS the same for Pacquiao as he could be on something thats giving him a lot of unfair advantages against his opponents such as speed and power which can do damage. IE Cotto and Margarito where he smashed them to peices. Probably worse then what Marg did to Cotto. So yes, it is the same, he just hasnt been proven guilty. Margarito has not used concrete in his hands. Prove it.

So you know that Manny is guilty, do you ? The whole world knows that Margarito is.

No, i simply said that Manny is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and in my previous threads i stated i thought he was clean. Im just saying, innocent until proven guilty, thats a legitimate saying.

He is guilty. He was found going into a fight with illegal wraps. Whether he got to use them to batter his opponent with is not relevant. Its also not a question of whether he used them previously, as that is conjecture.

Marg is a convicted cheat, pacman is not. Done.

Margarito has not used concrete in his hands. Prove it.

Jesus christ

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=4020190

And i quote:

The hand wraps confiscated from former welterweight champion Antonio Margarito shortly before his title defense against "Sugar" Shane Mosley contained two primary elements of plaster of Paris

And here's what plaster of paris is defined as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaster

And i quote:

The term plaster can refer to gypsum plaster (also known as plaster of Paris), lime plaster, or cement plaster.

You're not very smart, are you? A legal/sport system has found him GUILTY!!! Christ alive.

d260005p wrote:

rowley wrote:There is a simple phrase though that underpins the legal system in this and indeed most countries and that is "innocent till proven guilty" Marg has been proven guilty, Manny hasn't. Is the key distinction in all this.

True, and i agree with that. I just think that even though YES he has been proven guilty with the handwraps against Mosley, he never used them. We cant say he used them against Cotto just because he tried against Mosley. You can not prove it and neither can i. Thats why i say in my first comment that they should give him a break regarding Cotto fight. Like you said, innocent to proven guilty. He isnt guilty for that as there is no proof.

By your own criteria and logic of 'raising suspicion', Margarito being caught coupled with (as coxy has pointed out) the habitual and repeat nature of cheats has given ample cause to raise the suspicion that he cheated prior to the Mosley fight.

Or are you just another numpty WUM?

joeyjojo618 wrote:He is guilty, Jesus tapdancing christ. He was found going into a fight with illegal wraps. Whether he got to use them to batter his opponent with is not relevant. Its also not a question of whether he used them previously, as that is conjecture.

Marg is a convicted cheat, pacman is not. Done.

And im not disagreeing, im just saying that you can not prove he used wraps against Cotto. Done.

Ok good. So you are happy that Marg is a cheat and Pacman is not. Thats fine by me.

BALTIMORA wrote:

d260005p wrote:

rowley wrote:There is a simple phrase though that underpins the legal system in this and indeed most countries and that is "innocent till proven guilty" Marg has been proven guilty, Manny hasn't. Is the key distinction in all this.

True, and i agree with that. I just think that even though YES he has been proven guilty with the handwraps against Mosley, he never used them. We cant say he used them against Cotto just because he tried against Mosley. You can not prove it and neither can i. Thats why i say in my first comment that they should give him a break regarding Cotto fight. Like you said, innocent to proven guilty. He isnt guilty for that as there is no proof.

By your own criteria and logic of 'raising suspicion', Margarito being caught coupled with (as coxy has pointed out) the habitual and repeat nature of cheats has given ample cause to raise the suspicion that he cheated prior to the Mosley fight.

Or are you just another numpty WUM?

Im not saying he is not guilty for the wraps on Mosley. Im simply saying, yes you can have suspicions, but you are NEVER going to 100% prove that he used wraps in previous fights. Simple as. Its not rocket science. It happens once and thats it is it? He has used them since the amateurs, give me a break. Your the WUM here matey not me, im saying he is not guilty for the COTTO fight because its unproven. Im not saying he ISNT guilty for the wraps. Read before you speak.

I walked into a bank with a gun the other day. The alarm was raised and I was apprehended before I had any chance to use the firearm, yet I'm still being charged over the incident. Why is this?

Saying he's not guilty is by definition different to saying he's innocent. It can't be conclusively proved that Margarito DIDN'T use the wraps for the Cotto fight, but the circumstantial evidence goes quite heavily against Margarito in this instance.

joeyjojo618 wrote:Ok good. So you are happy that Marg is a cheat and Pacman is not. Thats fine by me.

Exactly. Thankyou sir. You have read what i have said. YES he has cheated and NO pac is not a cheat. I just think its wrong for people to sit here and say he used them against Cotto. How do we know that?

BALTIMORA wrote:I walked into a bank with a gun the other day. The alarm was raised and I was apprehended before I had any chance to use the firearm, yet I'm still being charged over the incident. Why is this?

He's talking about the Cotto fight not Mosley.

BALTIMORA wrote:I walked into a bank with a gun the other day. The alarm was raised and I was apprehended before I had any chance to use the firearm, yet I'm still being charged over the incident. Why is this?

Exactly. Your being charged with possesion of a firearm with intent. Not murder or armed robbery.

It was an excellent performance by Mosley, but everyone knew marg had a poor camp, having to shed about 25lb. Then the handwrap thing mustve played a part in his performance. He simply didn't look the same fighter that beat Cotto, cintron etc. Not just in terms of whether wraps were present, but his strength, punch output were all below par. Mosley is nothing if not a good puncher and marg was a sitting duck all night, even some with his quality of chin will go if Mosley has a free run at it, which is what happened.

My personal belief is that marg did use illegal wraps against Cotto, but the fact is there is no actual proof so we cannot hold it as fact, we will simply never know. Even so, illegal wraps wouldn't have aided the strength and chin he showed in walking through cottos arsenal to grind him down. If the two meet again I imagine the result to be the same, cottos not a huge puncher at 154 and marg too physically dominant for him, marg essentially is all wrong for Cotto and will probably stop him again, illegal wraps or not.

As for mostly gassing against mayweather - sorry but that's cack. A pro athlete with the kind of training resources at mosleys disposal does not gas after 6 minutes of activity and not even get a second win in the following 40 minutes, especially against a mid paced opponent like floyd. Mosley was simply outclassed, he's always struggled against good jabs and effective counter punching (winky, Forrest, Cotto). He was put in a position where he couldn't cone forward without getting caught and had to fight cagey which isn't his game. Add to that he was at a rare speed disadvantage and mayweathers clinical punch accuracy and it was always gonna be a bad night for Shane, but to say he gassed is a response you only expect from Floyd haters looking to discredit the win (having previously said that Floyd would duck Shane, or that Shane would ko him).

Mosley was on the slide pre-Margarito.

Margarito had an awful camp - needing to shed a ton of weight quite quickly to make the WW limit.

Margarito was a tailor made fighter for Shane. Head in the wrong place after the hand wraps. Starting slowly so Shane could get a feel for the fight but still nick the early rounds. Walking forwards with poor footwork so he would be walking onto Shane's blistering power.

Against an elusive fighter - in Floyd - 38 year old Mosley was never going to look good.

And against Manny - less said the better. An Egyptian mummy would have looked better than Shane in that fight.

I thought Mosely had a fight on with Berto when Mayweather came up part way through the training camp so he over trained. Or did I dream that? Serious question as it wouldn't be the first time.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I thought Mosely had a fight on with Berto when Mayweather came up part way through the training camp so he over trained. Or did I dream that? Serious question as it wouldn't be the first time.

You didn't dream it, that was one of the many excuses put forward by D4thincarnation to discredit mayweathers win over mosley - along with mosley being ring rusty, old, shot and his legs being gone. This on the back of saying floyd would duck Mosley, then saying he would put a "monster bet" on a mosley KO. Funnily enough these flaws of mosleys suddenly disappeared in a Dorian Gray-esque reverse ageing process as soon as Mosley signed to fight pacquiao, with the phrase "never write off a great fighter" being the mainstay of the build up!

What was it that D4 was banned for? Albeit not a permanent one it got rid of the disgracefully biased muppet. I wasn't on when he got banned - what happened and for what reason?

coxy0001 wrote:What was it that D4 was banned for? Albeit not a permanent one it got rid of the disgracefully biased muppet. I wasn't on when he got banned - what happened and for what reason?

I think it was just that he ignored repeated requests to stop going over the same ground and hijacking threads with his pet subject. He wasn't one for insults or abuse, think he just pushed it too far, got a ban which upset him enough for him not to come back. Cant remember the specific incident though.