Congratulations to Oscar Pistorius!

He's finally managed it, a new PB in the 400m at 45.07s in Italy yesterday. Giving him the A standard for World Championships in Daegu! This is fantastic news and is another step toward London 2012.

Well done!

I was reading about this earlier, so completely happy for him! And he knocked a massive half second off his PB as well, don't think he could quite believe it.

Very, very well done to him

I have a lot of time for Pistorious and really hope he competes at London 2012!

Shoud make the 4x4 relay intresting.
Pistorius should be able to take out at least
a couple of teams at the changover.
Is Stuart Hall (of 'It's A Khockout' fame)
going to commentate !

nb Has he got dual nationality.
If he has thn let's get him on board and upset
'The Daily Mail'.

A great achievement for him personally. I have no idea whether the blades help/hinder, but that aside, it´s a cracking time, shows great dedication and good luck to the bloke

Actually I think allowing a man to run with artificial legs that can't tire is taking the Pistorius!

I think it makes a brilliant story and he will be one of the names of 2012. However I can't really see him progressing beyond the quarterfinals.

Nore Staat wrote:I think it makes a brilliant story and he will be one of the names of 2012. However I can't really see him progressing beyond the quarterfinals.

According to the rankings on the IAAF website he ranks 14th in the world amongst those selected for or likely to be doing the 400m in Daegu. Only 3 rounds scheduled so likely to be 3 "semi-finals" featuring 24 athletes.

Thanks for the additional info. I wasn't convinced that Pistorious could string two A standard performances together in short succession.

Yes congratulations to him it is a brilliant achievement.

However, it is my belief he should not be able to complete with "normal" athletes in major championships/olympics etc.

Despite numerous tests etc in my opinion it cannot be proved he doesn't get any or no advantage from his "attachments". The race is not comparing like for like. "If you paint an apple orange it does not make it one."
The bio mechanics are totally different which without going into real science is proven enough to me by how slow his start is compare to others and how he is then able to make it up.
His "legs" are made totally for running and are hence specialised for purpose whereas as in others our legs have to perform various other functions which must mean compromise somewhere along the line.

I do admire him for his persistence and think he is a great role model showing how to overcome such adversity.

skimpton wrote:Yes congratulations to him it is a brilliant achievement.

However, it is my belief he should not be able to complete with "normal" athletes in major championships/olympics etc.

Despite numerous tests etc in my opinion it cannot be proved he doesn't get any or no advantage from his "attachments". The race is not comparing like for like. "If you paint an apple orange it does not make it one."
The bio mechanics are totally different which without going into real science is proven enough to me by how slow his start is compare to others and how he is then able to make it up.
His "legs" are made totally for running and are hence specialised for purpose whereas as in others our legs have to perform various other functions which must mean compromise somewhere along the line.

I do admire him for his persistence and think he is a great role model showing how to overcome such adversity.

I agree. Good luck to him though as he must be a real shining light to other disabled athletes.

He also has some disadvantages not having any lower legs an' all. I suppose if he were able to run the 800m then any real net "advantages" might become clearer. As far as I am aware he is the only such athlete who comes anywhere near the able bodied athletes.

At the same Olympics there will also be another athlete from South Africa who has caused a similar "noise" in terms of potential advantages (an XY female).

Separate to this but still a source of discussion are those athletes who will be competing at the Olympics who have served drugs bans but whose authorities are not as unforgiving as those in Britain. Amongst these will likely be Justin Gatlin.

The original report that allowed him to compete hasn't been peer reviewed by 3 non-biased scientists as is required.

According to 5 live a swiss bio mechanic said they give him upto a 25% advantage.

If you take that into consideration there little to no chance he will get to compete.

.....taking the Pistorius

On the other side, his balance is nothing like as good as an able bodied athlete, his start is terrible, his cornering ability is poor, and if it's wet for example he's all over the place because of it. I understand the arguments about the advantage he has because of the blades, but compared to the disadvantages of having no feet or lower legs I think it's a rather pointless argument. And given that unlike performance enhancing drugs it's highly unlikely that a bunch of athletes are going to rush off and get their lower legs amputated I would think that banning him from competing just sends totally the wrong message.

Soreshins: Excellent points and very well made.

There is not a line you can draw in these categories, as you move toward wheelchair users, who are better than able bodied athletes over long distances. Each case has to be judged on its merrit. If Pistorius were to go on and do a fantastic time at 400m - sub 43 or an 800m sub 1:40. I feel we'd have to look at it in a different light, a fantastic achievement, but it can't be deemed as a WR for able bodied athletes. a WR for double amputee below the knee athletes, yes.

As we move towards bionic men/women we have to be very careful not to descriminate against anyone and take each achievement for what it is with a bit of common sense.

Soreshins
I think your very first sentence shows just how different he is and that it certainly isn't comparing like for like against an able bodied athlete. It is just saying the advantages make up for the dis-advantages and all is equal. However, there is no real proof of that. Just because his times equate to that of an A standard athlete does not make it true.
I am not saying he is better or worse, has advantages or disadvantages, know one can really tell - it could even be possible that with normal legs he would have been a 42 sec 400M WR holder. His achievement appears to be and I would say is fantastic, but he is not an able bodied runner and should therefore not be allowed to compete.
If his "legs" and "feet" looked proportional to a "normal" person and he had a fully functional "ankle" it might look a bit more comparable, however, even then it would still not be the same.
As soon as the rules are changed for one criteria and person you open a can of worms and where do you draw the line.

It is a problem , this ... seems churlish to speak against the man , he is an incredible example of courage and determination who has persisted in his dream and now is on the brink of a great achievement ...and yet...
As Skimpton says above, we are not comparing apples with apples. What Pistorius does is not the same as the other 400 metre runners - you only have to look at the pattern of his races, totally different from the normal splits...I admire it , but am not sure it is "fair".

I guess it didn't worry anyone much when he was a fair way adrift of the top class , but now his 45'07 has brought him within potential reach of finals at a WC it has become an issue which might have been avoided had the harder but arguably more correct decision been made earlier. Too late now and I hope we don't see the event overshadowed by controversy as a result.

ryanbailey wrote:Soreshins: Excellent points and very well made.

If Pistorius were to go on and do a fantastic time at 400m - sub 43 or an 800m sub 1:40. I feel we'd have to look at it in a different light, a fantastic achievement, but it can't be deemed as a WR for able bodied athletes. a WR for double amputee below the knee athletes, yes.

But we couldn't do this. We would have to accept these as being the WRs because we've already given him the pass whilst ignoring all the relevant and impartial scientific research.

If we accept it now, that's fine, good luck to him. What the sport can't do is moan when he makes a mockery of the sport. Like Semenya could.

For long distance races can we have men chasing 'hares' rolling around the side as pace makers?

Or wheelchairs in the running races? I feel it may aid the performances of the top athletes in keeping up.

Imagine he wins. The other atheles would be in uproar. Technically able bodied athletes would be allowed to strap blades to the bottom of their feet.

They are leaf springs. If he doesn't slip, or it doesn't rain and he learns how to start better, those adaptions will be a massive advantage.

Look what similar designed springs do in gymnastics.

It's London. It'll rain

Mr Bounce wrote:It's London. It'll rain

Point taken.

If it was in manchester, he wouldn't be allowed to compete on safety grounds.