advice for a positive attitude to chipping please

First topic message reminder :

hi all
for a few weeks now i've been struggling badly around the greens. it started with a fluffed chip back in mid june in our club champs which led to a further 13 over the course of the 36 hole qualifying. since then my confidence on the course has been rock bottom which, because most of the rounds i play are counting, has done considerable damage to my scoring and handicap. i've spent a lot of time on the practice green and i think my technique is fairly solid. there just seems to be a mental issue when i get out on the course i start decellerating into the stroke and end up fluffing it, or thinning it. fortunately my putting is very reliable or i'd be in real trouble, but the issue is causing a slump in my scoring that i'm keen to reverse. any suggestions?

Doon, it would appear that old codger wisdom has gone right over the heads of some on here. I just hope for ban_bam's sake, he discards all chipping advice (including mine) and begins to understand the true source of his problems which have little to do with technique itself and more to do with the unrealistic season target he has set for himself. It's one thing to get down to category one - quite another to stay there!

Is that the same "old codger wisdom" that has raped and pillaged the country for the past 40 years and has now left it on it's knees with little prospect for future generations...

Sharisson, is that the kind of positive thinking that helps you stave off depression ?

It's the kind of realistic thinking that helps me keep things in perspective...

sharrison01 wrote:Is that the same "old codger wisdom" that has raped and pillaged the country for the past 40 years and has now left it on it's knees with little prospect for future generations...

No.

gaelgowfer wrote:

sharrison01 wrote:Is that the same "old codger wisdom" that has raped and pillaged the country for the past 40 years and has now left it on it's knees with little prospect for future generations...

No.

Okey dokey

McLaren wrote:sharrison

My handicap is low single figures as I already pointed out.

You said you don't have a handicap, because you don't play competitive golf anymore. So you USED to be a Cat 1 golfer, but you aren't now. Sorry.

SR

True, but come on to say my advice is the same as a mid handicappers is a bit harsh.

Sharrison

Again your knowledge, or indeed lack of, of economics and economic history has you looking a little silly.

Well, as a student of my own suffering it seems like a suitable point to summarise some of the excellent advice that has been offered. Though I am confident that my technique is reasonable, some of the advice regarding set-up, thought process and visualising 'the shot' has been really useful. In particular, I like the common analogy that chipping is like putting. I consider myself to be a good putter, so if i can do that well, why not chipping too!


606v2 top tips for positive chipping

- With your weight forward and hands ahead of the ball you are in a really positive position for a descending blow and shot with a bit of bite.

- Keep the head in place until after impact, like you would with a putt.

- Good chipping is much like good putting, smooth tempo required and make sure you're accelerating through the ball.

- Chip with the same club for virtually everything, as this improves touch and feel.

- Practice with just 10 balls at a time.

- As you get more aggressive, you'll find that you can control the spin and run out better and it'll improve your up and down stats.

- Get yourself in a comfortable position where you can swing smoothly and it should be as intuitive as a putt

- Take the club which gets the ball on the green as soon as possible and with a low a flight as you can.

- Feet close together and firm wrists through the impact area

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4DevROGzXM

- Concentrate on the landing spot

- Good luck, I think that you can sort this if you don't dwell on it.


I played in the Craigmillar Park Open today. I played ok, and on the whole chipping was much improved, thanks in no small part to some of the tips gleaned from the thread. I played 6 chips over the course of the round [nearly all of them over effing bunkers!], only one up and down, but a couple of others within 5feet, and no duffs [!!!!], so definite improvement. I carded a 4 over 74, which considering i wasn't striking the ball too well, i was really happy with.

Thanks again to all - your input has been much appreciated.

I think the present world problems are more to do with the 40/50 year old generation who thought they could bluff lie and cheat thier way through life . Especially those in the financial, real estate and legal professions.

oldshanker wrote:
Out of interest I played that round with D4S he was talking about earlier, and when near the green, some of his chips had no committment and ended up fluffed because he died on them. Speaking as a higher handicapper, it was obvious even to me that was what happened, but D4S knows that, just like you do Ban.

So KISS

Shanker,

maybe you've hit the nail on the head there

I'll try going for those chips a bit more and not worry about the one coming back. Thursday was a case of so near yet so far, 5 over with 3 fluffed chips when saving par should have been very straightforward. Food for thought, thanks for that

McLaren wrote:SR

True, but come on to say my advice is the same as a mid handicappers is a bit harsh.

Sharrison

Again your knowledge, or indeed lack of, of economics and economic history has you looking a little silly.

Mac, It's silly to say you have to be a low handicapper to be able to offer sage advice. Many players of higher handicap than you understand very well many of the technical aspects of the game, and are often very good at spotting little errors in the swings or games of others. Unfortunately for them (and I'm not trying to sound like a bellend here but) many will never have the talent to be able to apply what they know, doesn't mean they don't know how they'd like to do it.

It's naive to think there is only one way to chip, because there are too many situations which require a great variety of shot.
I played TOC today and missed 8 greens, which is quite embarassing considering the size of the greens, there is no way I could have got up and down on five of the eight occasions if I could only chip in one conventional way.

Doon, I'd say that's pretty much spot on. I'd possibly add the 60 year olds in there as that coves pretty much the baby boomer period, hence my banding them as "the old codgers!?" (tongue in cheek).

Mac, I'm guessing from following your posts that you are a student or recent graduate- don't't act like one. My economics and economic history is very sound and as you seem to be one of the great economic minds, you might understand and respect that economics is very subjective. One glance at the FT on a given day, as I assume you must do to maintain your excellent economic knowledge, will tell you that economists rarely all agree, much like 606v2 posters. The fact remains that your posts are littered with conflicting information so maybe you should step back and check yourself before criticising others.

SR

Again I agree with you, why is there a need to dissect every post I make in order to find some negative angle to focus on?


Sharison

Thank you for the advice I will be sure to take it on board.

ban_bam wrote:
I played in the Craigmillar Park Open today. I played ok, and on the whole chipping was much improved, thanks in no small part to some of the tips gleaned from the thread. I played 6 chips over the course of the round [nearly all of them over effing bunkers!], only one up and down, but a couple of others within 5feet, and no duffs [!!!!], so definite improvement. I carded a 4 over 74, which considering i wasn't striking the ball too well, i was really happy with.

Thanks again to all - your input has been much appreciated.

Ban_bam - just a side observation. You've had, by my reckoning, 23 putts on the greens you hit in regulation, and 11 on those you missed. You shot 74 (well done, btw) with 34 putts. Are you sure it's your chipping that's holding you back? 34 putts is pretty average, if you don't mind me saying so.

Ban-bam, thats really great that you had a solid round in terms of chipping and I'm glad that the difference of opinion and childish bickering that we have all been guilty of on this thread have not masked the good advice that you appear to have found.

I'd take great confidence from having a solid round around the greens and keep up the practice as it's much more fun than whacking drivers up the back of a driving range and really does make a big difference to your scoring.

Well done again...

cheers chaps.
good observation there sj. todays putting was really poor. left so many putts short. struggling with the pace of the unfamiliar greens as there are quite significant changes in elevations during the course of the round. the greens higher up were significantly quicker than those lower down. because the layout takes you up and down and up and down it was difficult to feel settled. generally i dont miss much inside 5-6 feet but today i lipped out with 5 from that range today. finally got my putting boots on for the last four holes. 15-20 feet away on all of them: knocked in two and horse-shoed out of the other two.

ban_bam wrote:cheers chaps.
good observation there sj. todays putting was really poor. left so many putts short. struggling with the pace of the unfamiliar greens as there are quite significant changes in elevations during the course of the round. the greens higher up were significantly quicker than those lower down. because the layout takes you up and down and up and down it was difficult to feel settled. generally i dont miss much inside 5-6 feet but today i lipped out with 5 from that range today. finally got my putting boots on for the last four holes. 15-20 feet away on all of them: knocked in two and horse-shoed out of the other two.

Cool, sounds like today was an exception, in which case with the improved chipping you should be a shoe-in for the 4 by the end of the year. Well done.

just worked out
24 putts for 13 GIR hit including one 3 putt
10 putts for the 5 GIR missed
shows my chipping up a wee bit that but hey ho!

So Ban_bam, putting to one side aside SmithersJones' logic bypass comment, you have managed to tip-toe past my observation about perhaps having set an unrealistic (h'cap) target for one season's golf. I'm curious to know why?

By the way, chipping is nothing like putting ... unless of course, you're a rank beginner getting a lesson from a golf professional although I've never been able to understand why a teaching professional would ever apply such an analogy to two completely different parts of the game.

gaelgowfer wrote:So Ban_bam, putting to one side aside SmithersJones' logic bypass comment, you have managed to tip-toe past my observation about perhaps having set an unrealistic (h'cap) target for one season's golf. I'm curious to know why?

First time a female has ever had the balls to question my logic. How is his target unrealistic, when he's already 3/4 of the way there despite chipping so poorly that he has double hits and even in his latest round of 74 apparently hit 2 chips on one hole? Forgive me for assuming he didn't do that, and for therefore thinking that 6 chips meant 6 missed greens. He's played (assuming par = sss) to 4 today despite 34 putts. Please explain your logic and the fault in mine?

gael,
i don't think it is unrealistic - ambitious yes - but i have shot several rounds of 4 over or better this season, confirming to me that at the very least it is achievable. (this weekends css is projected at 69 so should be a buffer round. considering the putter was cold, the chipping was mediocre, and the rest of the game was slightly off - i'll take it.)

as far as handicap anxiety goes, do you not think this would be affecting more than one part of my game? in my mind its not the cause, but certainly i accept it may be an aggravator the longer the slump goes on. i think your advice to be happy to mentally consolodate my cat 1 status before making a charge at 4 is wise and if taking one step back to take two forward is what is required then i'm happy to take those steps.

Well done Banbam~ If you believe what you have written, you are on your way now.
If you are that good you don't have to 'charge', it will happen in it's own good time.

SmithersJones wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:So Ban_bam, putting to one side aside SmithersJones' logic bypass comment, you have managed to tip-toe past my observation about perhaps having set an unrealistic (h'cap) target for one season's golf. I'm curious to know why?

First time a female has ever had the balls to question my logic. How is his target unrealistic, when he's already 3/4 of the way there despite chipping so poorly that he has double hits and even in his latest round of 74 apparently hit 2 chips on one hole? Forgive me for assuming he didn't do that, and for therefore thinking that 6 chips meant 6 missed greens. He's played (assuming par = sss) to 4 today despite 34 putts. Please explain your logic and the fault in mine?

Merely that your comment sounds more like a statement of fact when of course it's quite ridiculous to assume that even if his chipping were to improve this would not be to say that some other department of his game could go off the boil between now and the end of the season.

I've said it before and I'll say again ... the game of golf is a lifelong apprenticeship!

ban_bam wrote:gael,
i don't think it is unrealistic - ambitious yes - but i have shot several rounds of 4 over or better this season, confirming to me that at the very least it is achievable. (this weekends css is projected at 69 so should be a buffer round. considering the putter was cold, the chipping was mediocre, and the rest of the game was slightly off - i'll take it.)

as far as handicap anxiety goes, do you not think this would be affecting more than one part of my game? in my mind its not the cause, but certainly i accept it may be an aggravator the longer the slump goes on. i think your advice to be happy to mentally consolodate my cat 1 status before making a charge at 4 is wise and if taking one step back to take two forward is what is required then i'm happy to take those steps.

It's just that you make the game sound more like a exercise in painting by numbers which, of course, it is anything but. It's all about perspective. One of things you have to remember is that you are likely still to be missing a similar number of greens in regulation but, with a lower h'cap - particularly a category one h'cap - you have to 'convert' more often ... hence the additional pressure on that department of the game.

It certainly isn't my intention to throw cold water on your ambition to get down to 4 just trying to alert you to potential disappointment should you not achieve this. As I said before, it's one thing to make it down to category one - quite another to stay there. I think you've done extremely well thusfar but just try not to be too hard on yourself if things don't quite work out as you'd hoped.

Anyway, what's so special about the number 4?

The way the modern handicap system works it is relativley easy to get to 4.
In my time it was very rare to see a + player and players off 1 and 2 were considered international material.
In 1960's terms I would put a present day 4 handicapper on the same level as a 6 handicapper.
I would have loved to have played when a 76 was considered a good enough score for your handicap drop.

To get to scratch in my time you had to have 8 home and 4 away cards a year to par or better. I wonder how many of todays scratch players could manage that.

I imagine that almost all scratch players will have done that or are certainly capable of doing it.

SR
I'm not so sure.
There was no leaway in those days.
One year I had dozens of home counting scores but just could not get the 4th away score. Late Autumn that year I needed a par 5 on the 18th for the last away counter and managed a 7.('')

Could it be a case of "the good old days?"

It is always difficult to compare different times.

There are a lot more golfers around now, the courses may be longer but they are easier and much better kept. Equipment and balls makes it easier to score.

I think that pro rata the mid 50's era of Hogan, Nelson, Locke and Thomson produced the best golfers.

Doon the Water

I was never a scratch player, my lowest was 8, but the clubs we had were the old type of blades, and the courses were not the manicured prima donna,s of to day, the fairways got cut once a fortnight weather permitting, not sure how often they cut the greens, but the grass on them was about the same height as the fairways cut today, and as for bunkers, we had alsorts of things growing in them, and if you complained about them they would say "your no supposed to go in them"

Yes I would tend to agree scratch golfer of our era, was a scratch golfer!

When was this OP? 1902?

I'd agree with those claiming "their era" (50's/60's?) was tougher to get to scratch as I didn't get too far away in the late 90's and naughties (00's) but still felt my game was not as accomplished as those a generation (or two) above me. There's a lot more to it than course conditions and golf equipment with teaching, practice facilities and the like making a big difference. A scrubby putting green and a warm up net are hardly the same as floodlight all singing all dancing driving ranges with short game areas, bunkers to practice from and large putting greens.

This was the mid 60s, and through the 70s, most courses where not the manicured American courses that we see on TV in that era, in fact compared to today they where more or else just fields with a few flags dotted about.

oldparwin wrote:This was the mid 60s, and through the 70s, most courses where not the manicured American courses that we see on TV in that era, in fact compared to today they where more or else just fields with a few flags dotted about.

The argument for golf courses does work both ways though as golf course designers and architects have got better over the years at setting up a course to the difficulty that they desire. The lie's might be better but the shots are not easier and the courses built around this era that were fields with flags in now have mature trees all over the place.

Still agree that it was tougher to get to scratch back then though...

sharrison01 wrote:I'd agree with those claiming "their era" (50's/60's?) was tougher to get to scratch as I didn't get too far away in the late 90's and naughties (00's) but still felt my game was not as accomplished as those a generation (or two) above me. There's a lot more to it than course conditions and golf equipment with teaching, practice facilities and the like making a big difference. A scrubby putting green and a warm up net are hardly the same as floodlight all singing all dancing driving ranges with short game areas, bunkers to practice from and large putting greens.

I've always thought the benefit of traditional ranges was rather overstated.
You are hitting a ball off a lie which you'll only ever get on a tee, the surface mat is not a realistic representation of a fairway, balls are rock hard and lacking in feeling and there's often a horrid feeling of claustrophobia due to the narrowness of the booths.
You cannot simulate different lies and as far as I can see they encourage people to just rake ball after ball without actually setting up properly or aiming at a target rather than practice shots that might actually help their game i.e the short game.
Worth a visit during the winter to keep a swing going, but no where near as beneficial as getting down the practice strip and short game area of your club and practicing shots from that crucial 150 yard distance off proper turf with decent balls.

Totally agree SR

If you are going to practise you must hit off grass in an open area.

Especially if you are chipping Banbam!

I'm not sure i quite understand how practice facilities being improved means that scratch players of old are better than they are now.
I undestand they might make it easier to get to scratch or that there are more scratch players now but not how that makes them of a worse quality.

I don't disagree with the proposal that scratch players of the 60s and 70s were better mind you, as i have nothing to base a judgement on and have no reason to doubt DTWs view on it

Great point SR, but how many clubs have an area about 150 yards long where you can practice. I really hate the range because of the mats and for that reason rarely go. I would love to find a practice area of the type described by SR.

If anyone knows of one in the Edinburgh area I would be keen to hear more.

Mac, It doesn't have to be a specific range, it could be a small secluded section of parkland, where you might only have 70 yards, but that's enough to put an upturned umbrella in the ground to chip to.
You could probably sneak onto a lot of the practice areas at other clubs too without too much objection.

SR

Would you reall sneak onto a clubs practice area where you are not a member? Not sure I would risk that.

Why not Mac? Most practice areas are criminally unused. If you get asked to leave then fair enough.

I think it is a well known fact that it was harder to get to scratch in ye olde days than it is now. There is an old boy at my club who now plays off 4 but he was scratch in his prime, he takes great delight in telling me that there were only about 70 or so scratch players in England at that time.

Compare that to now where there are hundreds off scratch or better.

Doesn't necessarily mean it was more difficult though. People have more flexible working patterns now, better access to the course, more transport options, more coaching options, more time to practice, more competitions to get cut in( but also go up in), more Open's and tournaments, plus golf is more accessible to all classes and income levels due to the number of courses available than it was 40 years ago when it was a minority sport.
More people also probably play golf now compared to the old days so statisically there are going to be more scratch players, just as there are probably more players off every other handicap. None of the above reasons make being scratch easier, they just improve your opportunities. You still have to have the skill.

It may well have been different or more difficult in the past, but I don't think it's as easy to compare eras as people are making out.
Basically the options available for people to get to scratch are open to more people, not necessarily any easier (or difficult)

Yes all valid points. I think the modern handicapping system makes it easier though, the old system of having to shoot level par on 4 away courses made it a lot more difficult.

McLaren wrote:Great point SR, but how many clubs have an area about 150 yards long where you can practice. I really hate the range because of the mats and for that reason rarely go. I would love to find a practice area of the type described by SR.

If anyone knows of one in the Edinburgh area I would be keen to hear more.

mac,

turnhouse has a pretty substantial field that they use as a driving range. i believe there are plans to put in some bays similar to kingsacre though.

duddingston has a couple of practice areas. one off mats near the clubhouse, about 40 yards wide and about 230-40 long. the other is in the middle of the course between holes 6,7 and 8 and is triangular in shape. the long edge of the triangle has a tee at the end from which you can hit up to a driver, though it is quite possible to knock it onto the 6th, though many will end up in the burn which divides the range from the 6th. one of the shorter lengths, pointing in the same direction gives a good space for hitting up to about a 7 iron - often used for medium-long pitches though. there is also a decent practice green which used to be a par 3 in an earlier life. it is slightly elevated and sits between the two hitting areas. you can hit pitches from about 40 yards in and there are a couple of bunkers too. pretty good facility, i spend a lot of time up there.

gaelgowfer wrote:It's just that you make the game sound more like a exercise in painting by numbers which, of course, it is anything but. It's all about perspective. One of things you have to remember is that you are likely still to be missing a similar number of greens in regulation but, with a lower h'cap - particularly a category one h'cap - you have to 'convert' more often ... hence the additional pressure on that department of the game.

It certainly isn't my intention to throw cold water on your ambition to get down to 4 just trying to alert you to potential disappointment should you not achieve this. As I said before, it's one thing to make it down to category one - quite another to stay there. I think you've done extremely well thusfar but just try not to be too hard on yourself if things don't quite work out as you'd hoped.

Anyway, what's so special about the number 4?

gael, you make a good point re. additional pressure on 'converting more often' for the short game. i fancy the challenge though. if i don't manage to get down to 4 - so be it, i intend to have fun trying. as for 'painting by numbers'... i'm not having that!!!

One thing I was going to add to the chipping advice was that separate practice from playing. Age old saying and its well used but there's a reason why. Practice is good but you've got to trust that your practice will migrate to your play. Forget the mechanical thoughts you use when practicing and free yourself up just to hit the ball when you play. If you practice properly then the mechanics will become second nature. This frees the mind to concentrate on the target.

Few other points I'd add are;
Don't eliminate altogether the use of more than one club for chipping. If you practice enough the feel of a 6i, 8i, PW chip all comes fairly quickly. This is down to your own choice though;
Whatever wristcock you use you need some give in your wrists to help with feel and touch. Faldo advocates this. Main thing is not to let your leading wrist break down or the club head pass the hands;
You mentioned fluffs and thins in the original post. That can be a result of an overly in to out path through the ball. Get some video, friend with video phone would do, to see for yourself;
Like putting - tempo can be everything. A good consistant tempo can even allow us to recover from our smaller faults we may have from time to time. Pay attention to your putting tempo and see if you can apply it to chipping;
Lastly, remember how much all this advice costs!

McLaren wrote:Great point SR, but how many clubs have an area about 150 yards long where you can practice. I really hate the range because of the mats and for that reason rarely go. I would love to find a practice area of the type described by SR.

If anyone knows of one in the Edinburgh area I would be keen to hear more.

I know Silver knowes do have a practise section in the middle of the course