advice for a positive attitude to chipping please

First topic message reminder :

hi all
for a few weeks now i've been struggling badly around the greens. it started with a fluffed chip back in mid june in our club champs which led to a further 13 over the course of the 36 hole qualifying. since then my confidence on the course has been rock bottom which, because most of the rounds i play are counting, has done considerable damage to my scoring and handicap. i've spent a lot of time on the practice green and i think my technique is fairly solid. there just seems to be a mental issue when i get out on the course i start decellerating into the stroke and end up fluffing it, or thinning it. fortunately my putting is very reliable or i'd be in real trouble, but the issue is causing a slump in my scoring that i'm keen to reverse. any suggestions?

SR

In the past I have played of 4. I have now given up competitive golf so no longer have a handicap. Would like to think I could play of about 5-7 still.

Why did you give up competitive golf?

Struggled for playing partners??

Fed up giving advice on the only way to play a particular shot I thought.

Ha, there's only one way - The Mac Way!

Just prefer to spend the time I would have used to play in comps to play for fun or to play new courses, or other courses I like. It also takes up half a day of your weekend spending time with people you would not have otherwise wanted to spend time with.

hi all,
back in the door and delighted to find such a good spread of advice in answer to my plea - cheers!
hibbz, indeed if i could hit 18 GIR every round i'd not have the problem ... if only it was that simple! as it is my iron play is pretty good, second strongest element of my game after putting. to use the club champs as an example, i hit 13 GIR in the first round and 14 in the second. i was approximately 20 over for the 7 holes i misses the GIR on that day mainly due to 14 fluffed chips. even had a double hit in there! to be honest i feel the rest of my game is pretty solid at the moment, but i am suffering from lapses in confidence which is definitely linked to my 'fear' of chipping. guess i just need to strap on a pair and power through! either that or i'll need the number of your hypnotherapist drive!

No disrespect, but I can't believe that a pair of mid-high handicappers are arguing over technique for one of the most common problems for mid-high handicappers!?!?

You are both right and wrong. You should hinge your wrists very early when chipping and not only does this give you a sound technique to work from but it also helps to improve elements like your touch and how much spin you put on the ball. Once you have got comfortable doing this, you will find that this same touch will make a more rigid chip when you want to bump and run it a lot easier because you have already naturally developed your feel. There will be occasions when you need to bump it and others when you will need to use height and spin - players that use their wrists can nearly always play both but those that use a rigid technique are limited in that a lot struggle with higher shots and applying spin.

This is why I think that you are better off developing a more "wristy" technique as it will make the bumps easier and you will not be scared to use height and spin. A "wristy" chip is also something that is common in pretty much every tour pro's short game so if it's good enough for them...

There is no 'should'
Just because you do it one way, handicap aside, doesn't mean it's 'correct'.

You know nothing of the most common problems in my game.

I've no issue with someone giving different advice to mine. I was quite amicable with you when you explained your differing technique. I found it interesting.
I have issue when it comes along with "you play off 17, you clearly can't chip, stop talking"

gaelgowfer wrote:Ban_bam, with all due respect, are you absolutely certain your technique is sound? If, however, this is not the case then perhaps you should practise your chipping without trying to aim at a target. You only then have to concentrate on timing it properly without the worry of whether or not it's gone the correct distance.

its come a long way this season. i had a few lessons earlier in the year and about two months ago my confidence was sky high. prior to this year i had about an 8 year spell when i played infrequently because i was at uni 150 miles away from my club - playing a dozen or so rounds a year. prior to that, as a junior my short game was good for a single figure player. this season has been a bit of a rebuild job on all elements of my game, and the short game is the thing which has been slowest to return and most vulnerable to dip in form. as i say i cant seem to do any wrong on the practice green, when i'm on the course its a completely different story. just feel frustrated as my pre season target of getting cut from 8 to 4 has stalled on the brink - less than two months to get down to 5, then a 6 week spell (and counting...) where my chipping has seriously gone off the rails.

MustPuttBetter wrote:There is no 'should'
Just because you do it one way, handicap aside, doesn't mean it's 'correct'.

You know nothing of the most common problems in my game.

I've no issue with someone giving different advice to mine. I was quite amicable with you when you explained your differing technique. I found it interesting.
I have issue when it comes along with "you play off 17, you clearly can't chip, stop talking"

MPB, my apologies if that came across as a bit blunt - Friday afternoon of a long week!?!

I'm afraid that I disagree with your method of chipping as something to teach somebody that is struggling with their chipping as I think that this style is a resort for people that struggle with their chipping. People use terms like "keep it simple" with the short game but it is the most imaginative and varied part of the game and to simplify it and keep it reigned in to a rigid technique is to miss out on what could be something really fun and rewarding. Hinging your wrists is, in my opinion, a better way of starting out because all of the other shots will come naturally after feeling comfortable with this technique.

Sharrison, you disagree, that's fine

I don't use the technique because i struggle with chipping. I use it because it works. That gives me confidence to be creative and imaginitive. I don't know where this myth that you can't play a creative shot if your wrists aren't bent came from.

It gives me confidence chipping the way i do. The poster was asking for a method to gain confidence, ergo..........
I'm not saying he has to use it, or that it's the only way

Only an arrogant fool would do that..........

just to add, my technique is good, but technique goes out the window when confidence is zero!!

MustPuttBetter wrote:Sharrison, you disagree, that's fine

I don't use the technique because i struggle with chipping. I use it because it works. That gives me confidence to be creative and imaginitive. I don't know where this myth that you can't play a creative shot if your wrists aren't bent came from.

It gives me confidence chipping the way i do. The poster was asking for a method to gain confidence, ergo..........
I'm not saying he has to use it, or that it's the only way

Only an arrogant fool would do that..........

How do you flip it high, or get one to spin and stop after a bounce, or get one to stop dead alltogether, or maybe even spin? The poster wanted to gain a more aggressive chipping style and a rigid back and forth is far from that as it pretty much just a way of getting it onto the green.

Ban_bam, I'd have a look on you tube at the link that someone else posted above about Phil Mickelson's "hinge and hold" or better still go out and buy his DVD (ebay for a few quid). It really does simplify what the pro's do and his style of instruction is extremely good, despite the tacky tag line. As mentioned, him being a lefty also helps a lot to grasp what he is saying...

cheers, i'll look into it. off for dinner then a few holes tonight and half an hour on the practice green before tomorrows open. gonna burn it up!

ban_bam wrote:cheers, i'll look into it. off for dinner then a few holes tonight and half an hour on the practice green before tomorrows open. gonna burn it up!

Good man and good attitude! Best of luck and enjoy your short game - it's the most fun you can have with a golf club...

Sharrison, of course you have to hinge your wrists to play all of those but that's pitching.
Chipping is about getting it on the green and running. So yes my way does promote that.

Good luck ban bam
Let us know how you do

Ban Bam

It started with me in my early 40's and there is no cure.
It is all in the mind.
I went from 4 handicap to 12 in about 8 years.

It comes and goes but it is always there.

I have always putted well and short chips around the edge of the green are generally good. Give me a 30 yard chip over a bunker off a bare lie and I turn to Mr Jelly.

Mind you,Welsh golfer and renowned golf architect Dave Thomas nearly won two Opens with this affliction.

MPB, I'm afrad that I cannot agree that your technique is a good way to teach you because I am able to chip like you but you are restricted in not being able to chip like me (or the pros). The choice that I have is the difference. I'm not sure how you came about to chipping like this but it is a common method for those that are struggling with their short game and who use it as a last resort. This is not the type of technique that should be taught to someone looking to improve their short game.

Sharrison, you don't agree that's fine. I have no desire to please you or acquire your approval.
We can disagree on this, not a problem.

I fail to see the logic that says someone who chips using a lot of wrist will be skilled in chipping with firm wrists but not visa virsa. Nonetheless I can tell you that I chip pretty well. Were that not the case I would change it don't you think?

So either you just do it a different way to me, in which case we were probably done a little way back, or you need me to agree with you, in which case I'm sorry to disappoint.

Well i am awful at golf, as those who read my how you played today comments will know.

Chipping is the worst part of my game by a long way, So while i suspect i have a wider circle of where i want the ball to finish that makes me happy, i also suspect i suffer more bad chips than most.

And the only advice i can offer is that my better chips come when i believe in the shot i am going to hit, and just hit it. I know it sounds simple and probably really stupid, but if you hit them fine in practise then you can do it, only difference is there is no consequences. I have tried to take the practise thought onto the course.

P.S Ban_Bam f you really want a confidence booster come to Carrick knowe for a game and watch me chip, you will feel so good about yourself ha ha

ban_bam wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Ban_bam, with all due respect, are you absolutely certain your technique is sound? If, however, this is not the case then perhaps you should practise your chipping without trying to aim at a target. You only then have to concentrate on timing it properly without the worry of whether or not it's gone the correct distance.

its come a long way this season. i had a few lessons earlier in the year and about two months ago my confidence was sky high. prior to this year i had about an 8 year spell when i played infrequently because i was at uni 150 miles away from my club - playing a dozen or so rounds a year. prior to that, as a junior my short game was good for a single figure player. this season has been a bit of a rebuild job on all elements of my game, and the short game is the thing which has been slowest to return and most vulnerable to dip in form. as i say i cant seem to do any wrong on the practice green, when i'm on the course its a completely different story. just feel frustrated as my pre season target of getting cut from 8 to 4 has stalled on the brink - less than two months to get down to 5, then a 6 week spell (and counting...) where my chipping has seriously gone off the rails.

"...just feel frustrated as my pre season target of getting cut from 8 to 4 has stalled on the brink - less than two months to get down to 5, then a 6 week spell (and counting...) ..."

Ah ha, now we're getting somewhere. Surely you must have worked out be now that lowering one's h'cap becomes exponentially more difficult? You're putting too much pressure on yourself to make your season target not to mention the fact that you are now in category one which equates to a point one differential - quite a different kettle of fish to deal with compared to having a couple of strokes to play with.

You've done EXTREMELY well to get down to 5, why not be content to consolidate there or, better still, be prepared to go back up to 6 which would provide you with the opportunity to rebuild your confidence? Why the rush?!

Once again I totally agree with Gael and I think Ban bam we may have found the cause if not the cure. Anxiety.

I think you are trying too hard and we all know that is when it all goes wrong.
Exams, public speaking, golf, most sports and even the love life!!
Try to get rid of the pressure and worry, we all perform better when we are relaxed.

As Gael said you have done extremely well but I think you thought you would just carry on improving.
That rarely happens when you get to your level, full of ups and downs.
Good luck, I think that you can sort this if you don't dwell on it.

Doon the Water wrote:
Mind you,Welsh golfer and renowned golf architect Dave Thomas nearly won two Opens with this affliction.

Woohoo.... there's hope for me yet!!

I'm somehow just about managing to play to my handicap with this piggin affliction, if I can get it sorted then hopefully start shooting some low scores.

Oi, Doon, nice to know we old codgers have 'wur' uses!

Next case!

MustPuttBetter wrote:Sharrison, you don't agree that's fine. I have no desire to please you or acquire your approval.
We can disagree on this, not a problem.

I fail to see the logic that says someone who chips using a lot of wrist will be skilled in chipping with firm wrists but not visa virsa. Nonetheless I can tell you that I chip pretty well. Were that not the case I would change it don't you think?

So either you just do it a different way to me, in which case we were probably done a little way back, or you need me to agree with you, in which case I'm sorry to disappoint.

MPB, I have little interest in you agreeing with me or in how you chip. You suggested a technique for someone that needed help to be more aggressive with their chipping and I disagreed with it for their benefit and not yours. This was on the back of you and Mac swapping high handicaps and debating chipping technique and I feel that as you were both adding nothing positive to the poster's problem then I should add my opinion to help answer his question.

As for why I might state that chipping with a wrist hinge allows you to do both and rigidly does not, this is because almost all good short game players hinge their wrists so to choose to do otherwise would suggest a lack of ability to execute this as oppose to choosing another method. When you mentioned your handicap and the fact that this level of golf is usually characteristic of a poor short game, I assumed that you were like the many others that chip rigidly because you are not comfortable hinging your wrists. If this was so far off, my apologies.

Glad to hear we've agreed to disagree on whether or not we agree on disagreeing with the disagreements on who can agree on chipping

I think

Sharrison, whilst I am sure the OP is grateful you came to save the day, as to whether you are 'correct' or not remains your opinion and nothing more.

I have shown respect to your opinion and you appear to be struggling to do the same with mine.

My handicap is an irrelevance. As is yours.

Jim Furyk and a great many others will tell you there is no correct way, and I'm sure Ban Bam is quite capable of deciding which advice he wants to take and which to leave without your judgement 'for his benefit'.

As Davie says, and as I've said a couple of times, we'll agree to disagree and I think we're done

MustPuttBetter wrote:As Davie says, and as I've said a couple of times, we'll agree to disagree

Is that what I said? I got lost between the second "dis" and "agree"

It's what I said you said Davie. That's good enough right?

Ah but did you agree to disagree with me or was it your disagreement of me agreeing to disagree with you that made you (or was it me) so disagreeable?

I think I'm getting the hang of this now - more beer bartender!

No need to ruin it for everyone Davie. Gees!!

MPB, might want to check on that level of respect that you claim to be upholding?!? You have suggested that I am an arrogant fool whilst I stated that I made an assumption on your technique because of your handicap, for which I have apologised?!? I think that if you read back then you may want to check your own manner and ask yourself what you have actually offered.

I offered a thought out reasoning for why I disagreed with what you had said and all you have been able to offer me in return is comments like "Furyk will say there's no correct way" and "I chip like that so it must be fine." These add very little to this thread and help to enforce my original thoughts that you may not be able to offer the poster very much in way of guidance with his question.

The fool comment was aimed at Mac not you.

The reason I've not justified my cooments in the same way you have tried to is because I've never said anyone else's view is incorrect. You have.

I offered the OP the way I do it. That was all I intended to offer him.

Others offered differences and, contrary to you, I can accept that. Whether you think I've offered him much bothers me very little. As far as I can see I've offered him the same quantity of advice as you, simply differing

MPB, it would have been interesting to know why you felt that your technique of chipping could be of benefit to someone struggling as it is not a technique that I would have expected to be taught or suggested to someone looking to be more aggressive with their short game. I have not said that your view is incorrect but do not understand why this method would be offered to someone to help them. Clearly it is something that you feel you do successfully and rather than creating an argument that questions everything I say, it would have been more interesting and beneficial to everyone if you had any sort of explanation as to how this technique could help. This would have made for a better debate but that seems not to be your style so we will sadly have to leave it there and agree to disagree.

This thread was perfectly amicable (I even made comment to you saying I was interested in your technique) until Mac and then you came along essentially saying as a 17 handicapper I must be poo at chipping and my advice is incorrect.
All of what you call your reasoning is nothing more than your effort to prove you are right and I am wrong.
I feel no need to do that. I merely wanted to offer the guy my way. No justification needed. I didn't expect a judgement on it let alone to be told it isn't correct, offering much, or what you would expect to be taught.

If it's this condescending arrogant approach you are referring to then you are 100% correct, that's not my style at all

Shall we leave it there?

Can I just make it clear I do not really have an 18 handicap, that comment was designed to further rile MPB. Now i cannot remember who said the thing about rigid wrists but if it means I am a fool to ignore this advice then so be it. At least this fool will still be able to get up an down.


Bam

On the course this evening while chipping I thought of you plight and came up with something that might help you if it is mental. I found that focusing in on what the shot will look like and where the ball will land really helped. Concentrating on the landing spot in particular may remove all the swing thoughts and cause you just to swing naturally and freely but still have something to concentrate on.

I'm not riled and how childish
Small minds and all that....

Ironic that you should be one of the WUMs you whinge about

MustPuttBetter wrote:This thread was perfectly amicable (I even made comment to you saying I was interested in your technique) until Mac and then you came along essentially saying as a 17 handicapper I must be poo at chipping and my advice is incorrect.
All of what you call your reasoning is nothing more than your effort to prove you are right and I am wrong.
I feel no need to do that. I merely wanted to offer the guy my way. No justification needed. I didn't expect a judgement on it let alone to be told it isn't correct, offering much, or what you would expect to be taught.

If it's this condescending arrogant approach you are referring to then you are 100% correct, that's not my style at all

Shall we leave it there?

This thread caught my attention when you and Mac proceeded to bicker about very little and then when I read that you were both mid-high handicappers I was surprised by both of your confidence in your techniques. I did not say that as a 17 handicapper you were poor at chipping but merely made the assumption that as a mid-high handicapper that had faith in chipping rigidly you had probably had issues with your short game that led to you using this method. My statement that it was incorrect was aimed at the advice and not the technique because I feel that it is an incorrect technique to teach somebody - if it works for you then that's great. As for being right or wrong, you will obviously understand that despite how different people's golf games are there are better and worse ways to teach people. You wouldn't teach a beginner how to swing it like Furyk, to quote you above.

As a mid-high handicapper with a lot of confidence in his short game and enough confidence in it to shoot another poster down (Mac), I was expecting you to give me a greater insight into how you came to adopt this method, whether it be something that you had tried and tested or if it was something that you had fallen back on in tough times around the green. I have always assumed that this method was the last resort in a players' short game and was hoping that you might prove otherwise, in the form of debate and not argument.

Alas, getting nowhere so agreed we should leave it...

sharrison

My handicap is low single figures as I already pointed out.

McLaren wrote:sharrison

My handicap is low single figures as I already pointed out.

Not exactly. You've gone from "18 but could play to 12" to "used to be off 4 but now 5-7."

No low single figures quoted there so I'm guessing another change of handicap will be offered soon...

Jings, if you guys carry on like this the whole board will catch chipitus.

Doon the Water wrote:Jings, if you guys carry on like this the whole board will catch chipitus.

Care to elaborate at all?

sharrison01 wrote:

McLaren wrote:sharrison

My handicap is low single figures as I already pointed out.

Not exactly. You've gone from "18 but could play to 12" to "used to be off 4 but now 5-7."

No low single figures quoted there so I'm guessing another change of handicap will be offered soon...

Either way I am not a mid handicapper which is what you implied.



As for doons chipitis I imagine he was meaning we may be about to suffer for talking about it so much we over think it. I doubt he was accusing you of anything that terrible.

Oh the irony.
I have shot no ones golf advice down. It is in fact your efforts to do this that I have taken issue with.

I feel no need to explain to you why I chip the way I do but be informed just because your handicap is no doubt lower than mine doesn't necessarily mean you are more proficient at every area of the game.

Anyway I can tell you're desperate to have the last word so I will allow you that small pleasure. I won't be posting on this thread again

McLaren wrote:

sharrison01 wrote:

McLaren wrote:sharrison

My handicap is low single figures as I already pointed out.

Not exactly. You've gone from "18 but could play to 12" to "used to be off 4 but now 5-7."

No low single figures quoted there so I'm guessing another change of handicap will be offered soon...

Either way I am not a mid handicapper which is what you implied.



As for doons chipitis I imagine he was meaning we may be about to suffer for talking about it so much we over think it. I doubt he was accusing you of anything that terrible.

It was the chipitis that threw me!?! He seems like a good enough chap and not the sort to sling accusations around without cause...

I was meaning like shankitus, if you talk about it too much you may catch it.

I can't think of any other meaning but apologies is anyone was offended.

ban_bam - to try and address your stated problem. KISS. Keep It Simple etc.

If you are on that 30 yard, bare lie that Doon talked about, if there is nothing in the way, why play aerial target golf. Chip and run. Even if you are just 2-3 yards off the green and don't want to putt, use a 4 iron with your putter stroke.

The best bit of advice I have seen Mac give in this thread is - see the shot.

Out of interest I played that round with D4S he was talking about earlier, and when near the green, some of his chips had no committment and ended up fluffed because he died on them. Speaking as a higher handicapper, it was obvious even to me that was what happened, but D4S knows that, just like you do Ban.

So KISS

doon

I cant imagine how you previous comment could cause offence but if I shank it tomorrow I will probably have to blame you.