advice for a positive attitude to chipping please

First topic message reminder :

hi all
for a few weeks now i've been struggling badly around the greens. it started with a fluffed chip back in mid june in our club champs which led to a further 13 over the course of the 36 hole qualifying. since then my confidence on the course has been rock bottom which, because most of the rounds i play are counting, has done considerable damage to my scoring and handicap. i've spent a lot of time on the practice green and i think my technique is fairly solid. there just seems to be a mental issue when i get out on the course i start decellerating into the stroke and end up fluffing it, or thinning it. fortunately my putting is very reliable or i'd be in real trouble, but the issue is causing a slump in my scoring that i'm keen to reverse. any suggestions?

Mac
North Berwick West have a good practice area out by the 9th hole.
You have to drive out by the Marine to get there.
Gullane have a good little short game area by the road.
I am certain no one would question your use, if they do just say that you are 'the pro from Dover'.

I always find it wonderful that you never see adults practicing on the free Childrens Course at Gullane.
I could name a few parts of the UK where it would be mobbed by the unwashed.

super_realist wrote:

sharrison01 wrote:I'd agree with those claiming "their era" (50's/60's?) was tougher to get to scratch as I didn't get too far away in the late 90's and naughties (00's) but still felt my game was not as accomplished as those a generation (or two) above me. There's a lot more to it than course conditions and golf equipment with teaching, practice facilities and the like making a big difference. A scrubby putting green and a warm up net are hardly the same as floodlight all singing all dancing driving ranges with short game areas, bunkers to practice from and large putting greens.

I've always thought the benefit of traditional ranges was rather overstated.
You are hitting a ball off a lie which you'll only ever get on a tee, the surface mat is not a realistic representation of a fairway, balls are rock hard and lacking in feeling and there's often a horrid feeling of claustrophobia due to the narrowness of the booths.
You cannot simulate different lies and as far as I can see they encourage people to just rake ball after ball without actually setting up properly or aiming at a target rather than practice shots that might actually help their game i.e the short game.
Worth a visit during the winter to keep a swing going, but no where near as beneficial as getting down the practice strip and short game area of your club and practicing shots from that crucial 150 yard distance off proper turf with decent balls.

I agree with your general assessment of driving ranges but they still provide the opportunity to work on your game all year round. The weather and light issues during the winter months prevent a good player from just plonking an umbrella in a field and playing to it, assuming a normal working lifestyle. And as much as the average range user simply rakes balls over and tries to hit them as hard as he/she can, that hardly applies to a low handicapped player.

wow my chipping is truly truly awful. even an hour of messing about around the practice green last night couldn't muster any particular improvement. i just cannot seem to visualise any shot, or execute with any degree of control. if it goes close its either because its a fluke, or i've been hitting the same shot and have adjusted. seriously depressing.

If you are desperate just hold a seven iron like your putter, same grip even.
Hit the shot like a 30 yard putt
Can't really go wrong with that.
Once you get a good feel go down a club at a time with the same action.

trouble is i rarely need to play more than 3 or 4 chip shots a round, so when one is required the pressure is on. generally i'll get up and down maybe once from those 3 or 4, so perhaps i should just do a westwood and focus on the +'ves of hitting lots of GIR... generally the majority of greens i miss are due to poor drives where i have to play for position and leave 90 yards in.

Have you considered watching Phil Mickelson's "Secrets of the short game" dvd?
There's a plethora of chipping tips and advice from Big Phil, sure to help players of all skill levels.

I've noticed an improvement in my chipping since I started looking upon chip shots as fun challenges rather than pressure-filled shots. It might mean trying something ambitious but at least if you try it and enjoy the challenge you'll come away with a better feeling, even if you don't quite pull it off, than if you go for the safe option and still take 3 to get down.

Ban

Here are my keys to chipping/pitching

Alignment – it is pretty easy to leave the face more open than you intend and therefore shoot right of target.

ball position – place it from middle to the back of your stance, depending on type of shot you are playing.

hand position - set up with your hands in front of the ball and make sure they are still ahead of the ball at impact.

weight distribution – put at least 60% of your weight on your front foot and keep it there all the way through the shot.

follow through - no matter how short the shot, make sure you swing fully through the ball to pretty complete follow through position. It ensures you accelerate through the strike.

pick a very precise landing zone for the ball - really visualize the roll of ball from this point to the hole.

Relax – before the shot take a deep breath and feel all you muscles relax.

hows the handicap quest coming on Barragan?
ive chipped well most of the season but had a disaster in a scratch cup qualifier at the weekend. on a small course with very small and greens. it meant alot of good irons shots went about a yard off the green into fairly lush rough.
im struggling to find the best technique for getting the ball up quicky but only travel a short distance.
its these short distance ones (That require most trust in technique) that im struggling with. i was basically turning them all into flop shots and taking waaaaaay to agresssive a swipe at it. probably trying to avoid a duff too much

Mac are you dave pelz ?
All spot on particularily accurate I would only add keeping the clubface slightly closed as you are taking the ball a bit on the 'downswing'

As a good chipper and pitcher the one thing I've noticed is that other players very rarely line up the chip or even know where they want to land the ball, they don't look down the path of the ball to see how it will break on the green, they just hit it. How do they expect to get it close?

An open stance, but with feet close together, light grip amd gripping at the bottom of the grip all work for me.

dynamark

It was my audition to become westwoods new short game coach.

For once I agree with super, his post above and my point 6. It is so crucial to start thinking about the balls initial reaction on landing and how it will roll on the green after that.

The pro's can get it to grip from around the green but most of the time us hackers need to run the ball it the hole from a landing point much further away than we see on tv. So often you see people just lobbing the ball at the hole.

Hope you get the second interview.My short game is pretty good -it has to be when you look at my long game!Golden rule is to get the ball on the deck and rolling as soon as possible.See the youngsters in particular floating the lobbed chips and its so difficult to predict how the ball will react.

here's a couple of video clips of my pitching technique (not relevant for the mental side which is really my issue, but might be of interest none the less).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9R72iTOob4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7frjOzD9cC8

I haven't read every post on here but there seems to be a big chunk missing about practising properly. Try making the practice have some pressure otherwise it isn't really going to be a lot of use.

Play a game of par 18 - drop the ball 9 times around the green a few yards off each time. Ideally you should get up and down each time so par 18. Obviously you won't but you will create a best score. Then the next time you do this you will have a target and as you get close to it the pressure will ramp up as on a course. It is never the same as having to do it on the 18th but you would be surprised how it feels when you have to get up and down to beat or equal your best having spent all that time getting there.

Most important. Make sure when you start that you go all the way round and don't say something like 'start again.' That defeats the object.

just been up for a practice session. an hour hitting 5 irons then did a little 20 - 60 yard pitching practice. finished off with some chipping practice and after messing around with a bag full of balls i put them all away and did a little 'medal' with one ball - just putting out with the sole of the wedge. played '18 holes' all as par 2s, and after a sloppy start (3 over after 4) i tightened up my game and finished 5 over. will try something similar before my match tomorrow night. not expecting a quick fix though - well aware that practice is the only thing that is going to build confidence in this area.

I would suggest that you have your practice session the wrong way round.

I've seen great benefits from spending the vast majority of most of my practice on chipping, pitching, putting.

Unless you’re working on something relatively significant I can’t see why you’d want to spend an hour hitting 5 irons?

P.S. You’re probably a better player than me, I’m just chucking in my 2 cents!

no worries schlaff - feel free!
bit of an isolated incident today - i've been meaning to get some focussed 'swing practice' in all season - just never really got round to it. working on shaping the ball as i've had no confidence drawing the ball this year - everything is a cut or slice. agree - definitely worth spending 75% practice inside 100 yards though. going to try having a bit more fun with a competitive edge to chipping practice for a while to see how that goes.

im as guilty as most re the practise breakdown. i enjoy hitting a good 5 iron way more than holing a 20 footer on the practise green!
had a 76 yesterday with 37 putts

Barragan,
I only ever chip with 10 balls at a time, that way I can easily work out if each set of 10 shows an improvement on the one before. Basically what percentage are within gimme length. It also stops you getting bored of the same chip. Do 10, move on and try a different shot, different club etc.

Also try lining up your chips. I'm the only one I ever see getting down and having a look at the breaks, consequently I chip in a lot and have one of, if not the best short game at the club.

hend085 wrote: had a 76 yesterday with 37 putts

Funnily enough I also had a 76 yesterday with 37 putts, but I was absolutely delighted as it was a new PB. One man's treasure...

was still happy-ish with the score and would have taken it on the first tee... but i was left thinking what may have been. i only had one one putt the whole way around.and alot of the greens in reg i hit were to inside 15 feet

lining up chips is a good tip - as is the 10 ball rule. otherwise the area around the pins just gets too cluttered to allow meaningful chip shots to run out etc. although sometimes aiming between them can be fun.
even in practice i rarely hit chips to gimmie range - maybe 2 / 10. a good chip for me is inside 4 feet , and i'm generally pleased to be inside 8 feet. my putting generally gets me out of a lot of trouble.

To be fair Barragan, not many pros get many chips to gimme range. If you read Dave Pelz his attitude is to get it within 6 feet as this is where your chance of making the putt rises significantly.

barragan wrote:here's a couple of video clips of my pitching technique (not relevant for the mental side which is really my issue, but might be of interest none the less).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9R72iTOob4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7frjOzD9cC8

I'm second guessing you somewhat here, but if you really thought it was entirely mental I don't think you'd have posted those links. So...

Quite a bit of movement as you come through the ball, almost as though you're looking where it's gone before it's got there. Also, from the front it looks like you've got quite an open, narrow stance. All well and good, but from behind the ball you look to be taking the club away quite a bit on the inside. Not sure that those two combined are going to give you much consistency. If you're having to focus on making a clean strike, getting it close is going to be well down the list of priorities. Maybe try squaring up your stance a little and/or taking the club away on the outside a bit more? At very least, I'd suggest trying to practice keeping your eyes focused on where the ground where the ball was until it comes to rest.

Apologies if you really don't feel there's anything wrong with your technique. As has been said elsewhere, what do I really know!

barragan wrote:lining up chips is a good tip - as is the 10 ball rule. otherwise the area around the pins just gets too cluttered to allow meaningful chip shots to run out etc. although sometimes aiming between them can be fun.
even in practice i rarely hit chips to gimmie range - maybe 2 / 10. a good chip for me is inside 4 feet , and i'm generally pleased to be inside 8 feet. my putting generally gets me out of a lot of trouble.

Well then, that's where to work. I generally get 7/10 to within gimme range and the remainder within 6 feet so the up and down rate is very high, which effectively saves my game.
I probably ought to improve my accuracy from 150 yards so that I'm not having to chip so often though.
By the way I wouldn't recommend squaring a stance at all, I stand very open with my feet close together. A square stance promotes rigidness and mechanical swings. You are after a swing with touch and fluidity, but then again its my personal choice. My Target however is primarily the point at which I want to land the ball and not the hole. I've already lined it up so I know it will roll out. A less lofted club such as a 52 will also help nip it off the surface and keep it lower than a full on lob wedge.

interesting observations sj - thanks.
last time i had a short game lesson (just over a year ago now) my tendancy was to take the club back very steeply- perhaps i'm now going a little too far in the other direction. i was also very rigid on the way through (little or no follow through), and was encouraged to get my body right through and pointing more toward the target at finish - trouble is i find it quite difficult toning this down now for the shorter chips.
sr- i need to get more confidence with the distance i am hitting shots - perhaps focussing on length of backswing for a while before i'm confident about landing targets. at the moment i feel that i could stand up to a 20 yard chip and it could end up 10 yards short / or 10 yards past just as easily as getting it within a few feet.

on a simplistic level, try swinging through as much as you swing back. I see a lot of people stab chips, and you can't get any control on those.

barragen

I seem to be having a similar problem to you at the moment, i cant land my chip shots within 5 yards of where i am trying to. They are dead straight but just way out in terms of distance control. If i find a cure I will report back.

My pitching from anything inside about 70 yards is the same. Had a wee 45 yard pitch last night straight up the 4th hole... even the biggest hacker would manage to top it inside 20ft...struck it beautifully straight over the top of the flag carried right over the back of the green (admittedly the pin was tight to the back)into a virtually unplayable spot. The weird thing is - give me the same length of swing with a 6 iron punch shot and my distance control is quite respectable.

For a positive attitude on any shot, I tend to dismiss all the technical thoughts swirling around in my head and focus on whats black and white in front of me.

And for chipping (or any shot) this means realising that I'm holding a metal shaft with a clubhead at the end of it and that I have to hit the back of the ball with an accelerating stroke.

Once I begin to at least make solid contact with the ball again, I can then really concentrate on trying to get better end results. Just the way I look at things when I'm smothered with technical thoughts and things aren't going right.

Progress (and I mean progress!) report.
Finally got round to having a short game lesson on Friday. My pro pointed out straight away what SJ noted above about coming waaay inside on the backswing and got me working in a little drill to promote more of an out to in swing path. Improvement was near instant and we worked on a variety of chips, little pitches and lobs using the method.
Yesterday, men's open at Ladybank - first time I've played the course and it was a delight. Anyway, from the six occasions I was greenside, I got up and down 5 times, very nearly holing 2 of them. I fluffed one, though the lie wasn't pleasant (sitting down in a weed), but pleasingly hit the pin with my follow-up chip and sank the putt.
Thrilled with the progress, and looking forward to my next practice session more so than for a long while!

Interesting I had to pack in after 6 holes yesterday due to bad back but walked the rest of the course and scored for a 7 handicapper.Lovely player when he is hitting greens but no real grasp of the recovery side.He chipped a couple of times when he should have putted through the fringe IMO didn't really consider each situation individually which I think is key.When you have decided how to play the shot it is a matter of focusing on where you want to place the first bounce of the ball and how you strike it.After the shot you can watch and see how everything pans out may be in that situation again next week on the same course.Everything that happens between the shot and the ball coming to rest is relevant and well worth your full concentration.

barragan wrote:Progress (and I mean progress!) report.
Finally got round to having a short game lesson on Friday. My pro pointed out straight away what SJ noted above about coming waaay inside on the backswing and got me working in a little drill to promote more of an out to in swing path. Improvement was near instant and we worked on a variety of chips, little pitches and lobs using the method.
Yesterday, men's open at Ladybank - first time I've played the course and it was a delight. Anyway, from the six occasions I was greenside, I got up and down 5 times, very nearly holing 2 of them. I fluffed one, though the lie wasn't pleasant (sitting down in a weed), but pleasingly hit the pin with my follow-up chip and sank the putt.
Thrilled with the progress, and looking forward to my next practice session more so than for a long while!

Glad to be of service

Seriously, great to hear you've found something that helps.

Definitely should have paid more attention and I'd have saved 9 months of pain
Seriously though, it's been a valuable lesson in recognising how important it is to invest in some time with an expert who will get you set up correctly and give you the confidence that you are back on track doing the right things.