AP Players to watch 2011/12

Just plain nicking the idea from the article about the Pro12. That article asked fans to name players they think will have an impact next season. The main parameter is that they can’t have had a senior international cap.

Perhaps if you choose players from your own club, there will be fewer repeats.


Will Welch (21):
Openside Flanker
6ft 2in & 16st 5lb

A former England U20 who played along side Joe Marler and Freddie Burns. From what I have seen of him, he does do some foraging work, but is more of a 6.5 like Lewis Moody. Newcastle’s relative lack of depth in the backrow and their continuing inability to capture an out and out openside could mean Welch gets lots of game time.


Tom Catterick (20):
Fly-Half
5ft 10in & 13st 1lb

He is a highly rated fly half who missed a chance at the JWC because of a shoulder injury. He had a few cameo appearances at fullback last season and didn’t look phased. It seems that young standoffs earn their stripes at fullback before moving up the line, I expect the same thing for Catterick. It may have been easier for him had the club not brought in Greg Goosen, but I still expect him to get plenty of game time.

Will be keeping an eye on Kyle Tonetti at Sale.

For Sale, I'd say Tonetti and Marc Jones. Tonetti struggled last year due to the atrocious style of play employed by the coaches but he is a talented player with a wide array of skills that if used properly could help this team move forward.

Jones is a very exciting player who will excel in a high tempo side that want to keep the ball from hitting the deck.

Both of these are dependent on the style of rugby Sale play obviously.

Don`t know if this applies here on the old 606 site there was a lot of talk
about a George North.
What happened too him,some were talking about another Jonah Lomu ,think he was welsh qualified.

Eh, he's alright emack. Quite a good winger actually, now capped for Wales. Could be a very good player for Wales; a great runner, very strong- still needs a bit of polish to the rest of his game. Comparisons with Lomu were/are rather silly.

He's still a promising young player who continues to develop.

Also he plays for Scarlets in the Pro12, not the AP

Cumbrian...do you think Alex gray will get sufficient game time this season? He'll be one to watch aswell.

Im also dissapointed we have brought in yet another FB...when i think Catterick should be given lots of gametime there.

And im also looking to see how our bunch of centres go this season.

Englands glaring problem is that position.

So how will the likes of Allen, Hape, Waldouck, Lowe, etc etc go...
I also think banahan will be used far more at centre this season..possibly 12

George North? Well there was a legend about a man who went by that name...

I heard George North doesn't sleep, he waits.

I also heard that he’s been to Mars, THATS’s why there is no life on Mars

Some folks also say that George North will never have a heart attack, his heart isn’t nearly foolish enough to attack him.

Think he plays rugby or summat as well.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Cumbrian...do you think Alex gray will get sufficient game time this season? He'll be one to watch aswell.

Im also dissapointed we have brought in yet another FB...when i think Catterick should be given lots of gametime there.

Honest answer is 'who knows?' I'm afraid. It all depends upon where he ends up. If he stays at Falcons I can see him getting 10-15 games next season with a good number of starts. I've been following Smithy's running commentary on the Gray saga and it does seem like he is going to leave. I know some Leicester fans have cast doubt on him heading in their direction but Smithy (who is a man in the know) thinks that Leicester is very much a destination for him. If this is the case, I can't seem him getting that much time tbh, certainly not at his preferred postion of number 8.

Steve Shingler
Club: London Irish
Position: Flyhalf
Date Of Birth: 20/06/1991 (20)
Place Of Birth: Swansea
Height: 190cm / 6'3"
Weight: 83kg / 13st 1lbs

Fell behind Mathew Morgan for the Wales U20's Flyhalf spot but did very well at 15. If LI are smart enough to give him the game time then he will be a very good player for them and Wales in the future.

I know some Leicester fans have cast doubt on him heading in their direction

I'd be very suprised as Tigers have already signed another 8 this off season in Richard de Caprienter who was the England students 8 and who has a couple of England Sevens appearences under his belt. Add him to Waldrom, Crane and the covering options of Newby (when he returns), Pienaar and Armes and we have loads of cover for 8. With only one (at most) away at the RWC.

At Tigers we're interested to see how Tom Youngs returns now he's completed his transition from boshing centre to mobile hooker. A fiesty animal in the loose and has the power for the scrum but all will depend on his line out ability. Cockerill has enough faith to release Duffey in order to bring him in so he will be third choice next season. As mentioned de Carpienter above should be worth a watch as well, a number 8 with a whole lot of pace and great hands as well.

Cumbrian wrote:Honest answer is 'who knows?' I'm afraid. It all depends upon where he ends up. If he stays at Falcons I can see him getting 10-15 games next season with a good number of starts. I've been following Smithy's running commentary on the Gray saga and it does seem like he is going to leave. I know some Leicester fans have cast doubt on him heading in their direction but Smithy (who is a man in the know) thinks that Leicester is very much a destination for him. If this is the case, I can't seem him getting that much time tbh, certainly not at his preferred postion of number 8.

I was, and still am a fair bit, dubious about this rumour... but I did hear the other day that there is a rumour doing the rounds from someone in the club that Tigers have spoken recently to Newcastle about him and were told it would be £50,000 to buy out the end of his contract and sign him as a flanker (that position makes sense to me for him currently - he doesn't look to have the bulk from what I've seen of him to be an 8, not ina back row with the pretty unbulky Croft at 6 in particular). My understanding is that because of the £50,000 fee Tigers have backed off - I'm not sure exactly when this was though, it might have been signing him was first choice option as cover for Newby but now they've got the Aussie openside instead as cover.

My understanding is that because of the £50,000 fee Tigers have backed of

I had heard a completely unsubstaniated rumour that he was taking his time umming and arrring over the deals on the table which was annoying both Tigers and Falcons to the point where Tigers just withdrew their offer and signed up de Carpienter instead. de Carpienter had impressed with a trial in the Tigers A Team and was seen as a character more likely to fit in even with his nil professional experience.

I guess either way the likely result is the same - Tigers aren't signing him but have looked at him quite closely.

I'm looking forwards to see how de Carpienter goes at Tigers - hopefully he'll do well and get some game time this season.

Notch wrote:Also he plays for Scarlets in the Pro12, not the AP

Yep you can tell he doesnt play in the Jeff as he is actually English

It will be interesting where he does play Snoopster. With his speed and handling ability I have a sneaking suspicion that he might suddenly become an all action 7. Though Salvi rocking up might hamper that, maybe he's seen as a Croft esque replacement in the short term. I'm not sure, last year the Tigers backrow certainly lacked balance and didn't look the seemless unit it had in previous seasons. Something is going to have to change and I'm thinking Salvi might have been brought in as part of that. Though having a second row enforcer available for our big games might actually be useful as well.

Coleman - Steve Shingler is a good player. He is a very solid Steve Jones mould of fly half. I think that if he gets enough game time at London Irish, as he will make mistakes, he should turn out to be a very good player for them.

p.s. on the George North thing, he is a good player, but young and his form at the back end of the season shown that he still has a long way to go. Only time will tell, after all a lot of players are hyped in their first season that then disappear.

If you are talking about players who haven't had international caps then Goode,Barritt and Saull....

Think Owen Farrell and James Short will carry on. Short looked really good in the Sevens on Friday.

Players who might shine if given the chance - Jamie George,George Kruis,Ben Ransom and Mako Vunipola.

For Sale I think Henry Thomas (prop) should have a prominent season, as should James Gaskell.

One at Leicester worth keeping an eye on is George Ford. Could be a breakthrough season for him.

Not a breakthrough season but more a return to action. Looking forward to seeing Hipkiss back playing at Bath.

Behsocked if Ben Ransom can learn how to tackle whilst on loan at Bedford he'll be a real asset. At the moment far too hesitent in defence and when the opposition apply pressure under the high ball. Needs to sort those issues if he wants to make it. Great step and counter attacking skills which should really devastate defences in the Championship though. How much game time will the likes of George, Kruis and Vunipola get? As an outside seems they are some what down the pecking order.

FES, George Ford is very young and I think the club imagine his breakthrough season is more likely to be the 2012/13 one (he'll only be 19 then, same age as Farrell was on his breakthrough). Ford has the tactical kicking game and eye for a gap which will set him up nicely at AP level but he is still developing and needs to show reliability with his points kicking and in defence in order to get himself above Staunton in the pecking order. With a bit of luck he'll get some game time during the RWC and then a few LV Cup outings. More likely to see one of Forsyth (Centre), Armes (6,7,8) or Harrison (9) break into the team this year.

I will be watching the Wasps backline with interest though the likes of Wade, Daly and Wallace come into the side. Could really help them out as they haven't been active so far this summer. Suprised they let Seb Jewel go though.

My prediction for Ford is that we'll see him during the WC, and that he'll be able to shunt the rather average Staunton down the pecking order. I realise he's very young, and obviously he's not going to oust Flood, but with Twelvetrees at centre taking on the kicking responsibilities during the WC, and the experience of Allen alongside, I wouldn't be too worried about introducing Ford during the WC.

I reckon he'll be on the bench by the end of the season.

Would like to see that FES. More likely that Twelvetrees will step up for the bench role and cover 10/12/13 and then someone else will cover the back three. With the midfield remaining Flood/Allen/Manu. Cockerill has stated Ford will get a chance in pre season to show what he can do so we'll have to see how that goes.

I was actually wondering whether Twelvetrees would ultimately oust Allen next season. Obviously Allen/Manu worked well with Flood at 10, but I wonder whether Twelvetrees in at 12 wouldn't prove to be even better given another season to develop. He's more physical than Allen and has a better kicking game, which may prove useful when sides are applying pressure to Youngs and Flood. Just a thought.

Still, odds say you're right about Ford, possibly a season early, but I'd certainly use him ahead of Staunton.

With 36 he needs to get a run in the side. If he gets a chance through Allen being rested or injured and the side with him does well he will retain his place. One of them may play at 13 if Manu is at the world cup.
Cockerill tends to be very consistent, if a player is producing they keep their place in the side.

FES the problem is that Allen is a bit of a midfield general for Tigers. He organises the defence and is a real communicator in the backline. Flood and Manu have both stated how much they like playing alongside him in interviews. Flood even stated in the Mercury that he'd tried telling Smith (England attack coach) how useful Allen is but to no avail. The players player award speaks volumes as well. Twelvetrees is certainly a great talent and if he continues to improve could oust Allen eventually. Agree with Pete that during the RWC they are likely to line up side by side with either Staunton or Ford at 10.

It's certainly true that combinations can be greater than the sum of their parts, and if Allen is credited with bringing the best out of Flood and Manu, then obviously that has to be considered. But Leicester didn't win anything last year, and I thought that when pressure was applied to the half backs in particular, the team struggled to adjust. I rate Allen highly, he should certainly be vying for a place in the England squad and is a better player than many of the players who are, but I would like to see Twelvetrees given a good go at 12 next season, with Flood and Manu.

I guess the WC period is his chance to shine.

I certainly agree with that. I think the percieved problem with the half backs was an issue more when they were playing for England than it was when they were playing for Tigers. Certainly the England games knocked their confidence but both were brilliant vs Saints and Youngs did ok against Sarries (the yellow card was taking the rap for somebody else).

The big problem for Tigers last year was with the forwards, minus Parling, Deacon and Blaze the second row couldn't control the line out and really didn't bring enough in the contact zone. The games Deacon was fit he was a revelation and that really showed the gulf between the every improving Skivington and the youngsters in Mafi, Slater and Green. The signing of Kitchener could be a crucial one.

Agreed on Deacon, outstanding in a Tigers jersey in recent seasons. Hasn't quite made the step up yet with England (and by that I mean he doesn't play as well for England as he does for Leicester), but for Leicester has been top class in doing the grunt work.

Kitchener is a big signing for the Tigers, and shows to me that Cockerill wasn't happy with the second row last season. Now it's really a question of who will make way, because there are quite a few quality locks hanging around now, and they can't all play.

I would assume that Deacon/Parling (with Croft at 6) would be the first choice pairing if fit, with Skivington or Kitchener on the bench, but Mafi finished the season so strongly last year that I suspect he won't be too happy playing a bit part. Will Slater be happy as just cover? Perhaps he'll get some rugby back at Nottingham on loan.

A real shame that Richard Blaze had to retire. He had a big future.

Sam I have to disagree with you. I thought Youngs was rattled in the AP final. Certainly shackled compared to the final the year before where he flourished.

Especially in the first half him and Flood were put under so much pressure which forced the yellow card.End of the first half showed this as the panicked half backs kicked the ball out to signify half time.

Will Ford have the physicality,mental strengths and kicking ability to flourish in the AP?

Sam if Saracens can't teach Ben Ransom to tackle....

For Quins-

Ross Chisholm is one to watch, shone on the 7's circuit and has looked good in his few first team appearences. He may get a bit more of a look in but we have so many backs at the moment it's a real fight to get in the 23.

Joe Marler- After a big 10/11 season Joe will be lookig to cement his place in the Saxons team, he's already first choice for Quins and with a bit of luck could even sneak in to the EPS.

Tom Guest- Guest has promised a lot over the last few seasons but has been stucj behind Nick Easter in the 8 birth, with Nick off to the wc Guest should get a good run in the shirt and this is his chance to prove himself to the coaches and fans, I expect a big opening season from this lad.

Ok Beshocked the way I see it is;

1)Tigers forwards gave no decent platform, every scrum was pretty much a penalty (generally not the kind Benny could take quickly either), every line out was very poor and at the breakdown the ball was slow. He had nothing to work with.
2)The yellow card was the ref reacting to several infringements by a Tigers side struggling to get back and cover. Benny got unfairly picked out as he was about the only legal part of the defence (great covering tackle).
3)George Ford won't be ready for the big games yet but will hopefully continue building up his first team experience as he is a work in progress rather than a first team member at the moment.

I would assume that Deacon/Parling (with Croft at 6) would be the first choice pairing if fit, with Skivington or Kitchener on the bench, but Mafi finished the season so strongly last year that I suspect he won't be too happy playing a bit part. Will Slater be happy as just cover? Perhaps he'll get some rugby back at Nottingham on loan.

Slater should see some action early doors and in the LV Cup. He covers backrow and second row so we'll see how he goes. Mafi may well be used more as an impact player this season and he covers flanker as well so could be seen as an alternative for Croft during rest periods/6N/injuries. Parling might not be back right away so a bit more rotation is likely at the season start. Rumours still persist that Deacon will retire post RWC. I really hope not as he was crucial to our line out actually working last season (see the massive change in fortunes after he left the pitch in the HEC Qtr) and also if he was to retire the Welford Rd faithful would like to thank him personally for all his contributions over the years (he must be due a testimonial as well!).