RWC Warm up matches

The South African squad that played Aus on Sat will bear little resemblance to their top 22 that i presume they will field in their opening match against Wales on 11 September. By leaving his top team at home PDV is effectively saying he believes that 2 warm up games will be sufficient for what will be a crucial opening match. The NZ and Aus coaches will have the nucleus of their RWC squads available for selection for all 5 pre tournament fixtures. Whos got it right? Will the South Africans be underdone? Conversely will NZ/Aus suffer from too much rugby in their buildup?
Did D Carter benefit from a 20 minute hit out against the Fijians on Friday or would he have been better sitting with his feet up in front of the fire watching?
Personally i feel a player would much prefer to have a run in a match situation than consistently hitting the weights room and training ground.
A lot depends on a teams first up game. NZ playing Tonga and Japan would appear to be a lot less onerous than England v Argentina or Wales V South Africa.
Are you satisfied with your teams build up?

From Aust perspective I don't see the need or desire for resting players. The time for experimentation is over. They are a young team and what they need is back to back tests to work on as a combination. They are a confidence side and will want to be winning tests in the 3N as the ideal preparation.

I think SA top team will be underdone with only 2 games at home to prepare, but pool games might help them build up. But they have an ageing player list so I can understand them wanting to hold back.

The more Genia and Cooper can play together the more destructive Aus will become. Cooper is showing the world why he is going to overtake Carter in flair and ability. Aus have the talent and game play to win the WC. I am sure Cooper practicing a slinky side step and getting 5 points is better than Carter kicking 3. You have a young 21 year old with the same ability as Carter for kicking anyway.

As for Wales, 2 against the old enemy and Argentina, could not ask for a better warm up really. Whether it is good enough for Wales is to be seen, knowing Gatland he will play 3 different teams which will not achieve anything. Even if he plays the same team 3 times it will be once more than SA our first opponents. In the last 2 games we played Sa we took strong leads against them only to be pegged back. Psychological or just fitness who knows. Fact is if Wales can beat SA in Wellington then it opens a whole new chapter.

After all we are 7's World Cup champions.

In 2007 SA played their 2nd string in the Trinations and won the WC, so they weren't underdone then & I would be surprised if they were this WC.
Perhaps more relevant is their strength in depth & opportunities for 'fringe' players to put their hand up.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:In 2007 SA played their 2nd string in the Trinations and won the WC, so they weren't underdone then & I would be surprised if they were this WC.
Perhaps more relevant is their strength in depth & opportunities for 'fringe' players to put their hand up.

Interesting snippet from jake White today:

"World Cup-winning coach Jake White believes his successor Peter de Villiers has potentially bungled the Springboks' World Cup preparations by leaving his best players at home for the away leg of the Tri Nations.
White, who orchestrated South Africa's Webb Ellis victory in 2007 after resting several stars during that year's Tri Nations, said circumstances could not be more different following Saturday's 39-20 loss at Homebush.

Four years ago, White sent a severely depleted side to Australia and New Zealand for the final two weeks of the tournament, and they finished last after one win from four games before recording an unbeaten World Cup campaign.

''There is nothing similar at all, the reality is there is no comparison to what happened last time, they weren't the same age and the players did not need as much game time,'' the new ACT Brumbies coach said.

''It wasn't similar at all, the boys we rested were rested for two weeks of the away leg over four weeks, they are going to rest them in the first two weeks.

''We had three friendly matches before the World Cup started against Scotland, Connacht and Namibia, which they won't have.''

White questioned the logic of sheltering the Boks' top players from the away games when the World Cup would be held in New Zealand.

''I would have done it differently, not just here but over the last two years,'' White said. ''You could have rested guys from the end-of-year tour last year.

''The World Cup must be won in New Zealand, so you should be trying to win games in Australia and New Zealand with your best players. If they won the Tri Nations, imagine the momentum they would take into the World Cup.''

I don't think resting the players back home makes much difference to be honest. The problem with SA rugby currently lies beyond player welfare and match fitness.

They are being coached poorly, I was watching the Currie Cup again this weekend and it is simply just mind boggling to see the brand of rugby that is played there, and then you see the utter conservative manner in which the Boks play.

Cooper is showing the world why he is going to overtake Carter in flair and ability

Flair certainly but I've never seen Cooper control a game like Carter can. Where's the 80%+ kicking from the tee or the 50m kicks bouncing into touch to gain valuble territory and relieve pressure? Cooper is the best attacking fly half going to but as an all rounder Carter is still in a league of one.

And if those 50m kicks don't bounce into touch then all you've done is hand the ball back to their back 3. Carter's kicking percntage this year is 72%, less that O'Connor, who is the goal kicker (not Cooper).

Cooper's not the best 10 in the world, but he doesn't need to be. He is currently the best player in the game.

Yeah ill go with that rob. Cooper is almost winning matches on his own.
At least hes certainly sparking tries from nothing.
The hesitation with cooper being named generally as the best 10 is that hes unorthodox. And doesnt have as many strings to his bow. His defence is still poor and he relys on brilliance to be effective.
Carter isnt playing as well but has that all round game that people feel comfortable with and around the abs doesnt gave to do a lot to be as effective.
And with cooper everyones waiting for a fall. Just the nature of his high tempo high risk game.
Hes not done a lot of what he does against the abs for a reason. They dont let him.
Hes had moments but generally hes been kept relatively quiet. Eden park may put some perspective on his effectiveness i feel.

The game needs the likes of Cooper to breathe flair back into the game. Rugby is very cyclical. You get solid set pieces in place, then you focus on defense. We are now at a stage where attacking styles are coming back into vogue but in a couple of seasons the defensive set ups will adapt fully and we will be back in a structured game again. Gotta love rugby, there is always some aspect of the game to get your attention. I've said it before that Cooper reminds me a lot of Carlos Spencer, also not having the kicking responsibilities really frees him up to focus on attacking rugby. I think the RWC is coming around at an interesting time for the world media to see attacking style at the forefront of the game (or am I being wishful)

Of course rugby needs players like cooper. Thats not necessarily the point here.
Like any attacking player he can only do what the opposition let him do. Hes playing at such a high level its now a matter of sustaining and consistemcy because with his game if he has a shocker oz will generally lose, such is their reliance on him.
Saders managed to keep him relatively quiet and reds won a tight game mainly through the efforts of others. Thats ok as well. But that clearly wont keep happening.

If Carter has a so so game, ABs will still likely win, as he has had, and thay have won. If Cooper has a so so game, against the ABs they'll likely lose, as he has had, and they have lost.

Thats the difference between the two. Cooper may be a better player in some areas, but to be so good that the team requires it to win? Not a good space to be in.

And how much does the game need him if the wheels fall off?

Like spencer. Brilliant but flawed.

I think Aus have a lot more than just Cooper in their quiver. Genia was the man in the final. Beale is real class and O'Conner is full of talent.

Taylorman wrote:Of course rugby needs players like cooper. Thats not necessarily the point here.
Like any attacking player he can only do what the opposition let him do. Hes playing at such a high level its now a matter of sustaining and consistemcy because with his game if he has a shocker oz will generally lose, such is their reliance on him.
Saders managed to keep him relatively quiet and reds won a tight game mainly through the efforts of others. Thats ok as well. But that clearly wont keep happening.

If Carter has a so so game, ABs will still likely win, as he has had, and thay have won. If Cooper has a so so game, against the ABs they'll likely lose, as he has had, and they have lost.

Thats the difference between the two. Cooper may be a better player in some areas, but to be so good that the team requires it to win? Not a good space to be in.

And how much does the game need him if the wheels fall off?

Like spencer. Brilliant but flawed.

Not sure Cooper has played an awful lot against the ABs. I think he played his first test against them last year but he was rubbed out for 1 or 2 of them. Cooper can be kept quiet if defence is executed well, though he does have a lot of talent around him this year with Loane, Cooper, Beale no doubt seeking opportunities to run off him and Genia tends to make things happen when Copper is bottled up (eg against Crusaders). I am sure he won't be doing too many round the back flick passes into touch against the ABS. If you look at how he and Genia approached the Stormers, it was very traditional, well executed pressure building and a lot of kicking and field position involved. They can adjust if they need to. It's all about front foot football and therefore all about the forwards. If they can get parity then I think there is too much talent out the backs for most teams to cope with them, whether Cooper is kept quiet or not.

Can't wait for 6 August to see where they are at playing in the colder NZ conditions agiant a full strength ABs. Ahugley difficult assignment. A RWC final preview? My only fear is there is too much overhype about the SA result.

I thought his only game against the ABs was in HK.

Just checked.
He has played 2 Bledisloe cup matches for one win and one loss.
I think he is fast coming a more all rounded player he even put a few good tackles in in the final

The warm up games are vital not only for the players, but also for the team as well.

You can understand coaches leaving his best players out of some of the warm ups to avoid getting injured before the RWC.

But coaches cannot keep wrapping thier players in cotton wool and most players prefer to play games contiually, rather than every other game.