Wales Team for the first England game

Im hoping Gatland doesnt go down the Gareth Jenkins route and pick an under strength side, so I dont expect to see too much experimentation. My teams for the warm ups from the squad, giving as many people who stand a chance of being on the plance a go but hopefully strong enough to get momentum, I would play the best team against Argentina. Now whilst I personally wouldnt have bennet anywhere near the squad gatland likes him so.....

England1/ England 2/ Argentina
1. Paul James/ Gethin/ Gethin
2. Matthew Rees/ Rees/ M Rees
3. Craig Mitchell/ Adam/ Adam
4. Bradley/ Bradley/ Bradley/
5. AWJ/ AWJ/AWJ
6. Lydiate/ Lydiate/Lydiate
7. Warburton/ Tipuric/ Warburton
8. Delve/ Faletau/ Delve
9. Mike Phillips/ Tavis/ Phillips
10. Hook/ Stephen Jones/Stephen
11. Aled Brew/ Shane/ Shane
12. Gavin Henson/ Henson/Henson
13. Roberts/ JD2/ Roberts
14. North/ North/ Halfpenny(if fit if not North)
15. Byrne/ Stoddart/ Byrne

16, Burns/ Bennett/ Hibbard
17, Gethin/ Bevvington/ Paul James
19. Ryan/ Charteris/ Mitchell
20. Faletau/ Delve/ Ryan
21. L Williams/ Peel/ Tavis
22. Priestland/ Scott Williams/Hook

Now I fully expect people to scream hook shouldnt be on the bench in our best team, but I expect Jones to be first choice OH. Yes Ive given Henson enough time to play himself in or out of the squad, I would like to see more of Peel but I think he is done for as far as the World Cup is concerned, also cant see JT or Powell really coming back into the reckoning.

at the moment I think Gats probably has his thirty almost nailed down, a lot depends on halfpennys fitness and also wheher hibbard will be ready, whether to take Nuggett for one last hurrah or take Tipuric which I think is a really tight call. I also think if Henson is showing any sort of form he will get the nod.

I expect Gats to go for a 16-14 forwards backs split so the squad is gonna look a lot like this imo

Props

Gethin, Mitchell, James. Adam

Hookers
Rees, Hibbard/Bennett/Burns

2nd Row

AWJ, Bradley, Charteris

Back Row

Lydiate, Warburton, Delve, Faletau, Ryan, Martyn Willams

Scrum Halfs

Phillips, Tavis, Williams

OH

Stephen Jones, Hook, Priestland

Centres

Roberts, Henson, JD2

Back 3

Shane, Halfpenny, Byrne, North, Stoddart.

So long as both sides see both games as Tests, I'll be happy.

Too late for experimentation. (maybe except for Manu). Time to put up or shut up.

I reckon hell play turnbull or williams ovre tupric - its so worrying seein bennetts name on the list and knowin gatland will put him in

P England 1 / England 2 / Argentina
1 Jenkins / James / Jenkins
2 Rees / Rees / Hibbard
3 Jones / Jones / Mitchell
4 Davies / Charteris / Davies
5 R Jones / R Jones / AWJ
6 Lydiate / Turnbull / Lydiate
7 Warbs / Warbs / Williams
8 Delve / Delve / Faletua
9 Knoyle / Phillips / Knoyle
10 Jones / Jones / Hook
11 Williams / Williams / Brew
12 Williams / Roberts / Roberts
13 Davies / Davies / Williams
14 North / Halfpenny / Stodd
15 Stodd / Byrne / Priestland

I would like him to play whatever he deems is our strongest side for the first test and then just change 3 or 4 for the next 2 games so that 11 or 12 first choice players start each game.

It's no time for massive experimentation. There are 3 games before we kick off the WC against SA. That time has to be used for getting our game plan sorted and getting combinations working.

Gatland has not moved us forward over the last 2 years and players who should have played haven't while old favourites who have never been good enough have loads of caps.

We now need some wins and some confidence not giving people a cap and then discarding them.

We need to find a few players out so expect the following:

Byrne

Williams
Roberts
Henson
North

Hook
Phillips

Jenkins
Rees
Jones

Davies
Wyn Jones

Warburton
Delve
Lydiate

Bench
James, Burns, Ryan Jones, Faletau, Williams,Steve Jones & Stoddard

Good pack and backs that could explode if Henson and Roberts hit it off. Hooky at fly half, he has always played well versus the English. A few like Shane, Gav, Gethin and Adam get the necessary game time as well. Give Delve a run out as he is immense when injury free. Like to see Lloyd Wiliams have a run out as Knoyle is like a mini confrontational Mike Phillips.

Bring on England.

As an England fan looking in those aren't bad sides, but I still see two comfortable England wins.

No disrespect to Wales but I really wish we weren't playing two games against you lot. I'd like our boys to have a more rigorous test before the world cup. The Irish game is the one that will show more of where we are at this stage.

Hopefully they will be good games though. England by 10-15 at home and by 7 in Cardiff.

SafeAsMilk wrote:As an England fan looking in those aren't bad sides, but I still see two comfortable England wins.

No disrespect to Wales but I really wish we weren't playing two games against you lot. I'd like our boys to have a more rigorous test before the world cup. The Irish game is the one that will show more of where we are at this stage.

Hopefully they will be good games though. England by 10-15 at home and by 7 in Cardiff.

Yeah england are such monsters at the game these days, Wales would be better playing anyone but england

SafeAsMilk wrote:As an England fan looking in those aren't bad sides, but I still see two comfortable England wins.

No disrespect to Wales but I really wish we weren't playing two games against you lot. I'd like our boys to have a more rigorous test before the world cup. The Irish game is the one that will show more of where we are at this stage.

Hopefully they will be good games though. England by 10-15 at home and by 7 in Cardiff.

wow, sheer out and out arrogance! and you lot wonder why most of the rugby world hates you.

Hate is a strong word. Extreme dislike maybe

Turkster wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:As an England fan looking in those aren't bad sides, but I still see two comfortable England wins.

No disrespect to Wales but I really wish we weren't playing two games against you lot. I'd like our boys to have a more rigorous test before the world cup. The Irish game is the one that will show more of where we are at this stage.

Hopefully they will be good games though. England by 10-15 at home and by 7 in Cardiff.

wow, sheer out and out arrogance! and you lot wonder why most of the rugby world hates you.

I think hate is an apt word too

Lets try not to let this descend into a wales england slagging match, safe, why dont you put up the teams you think teh english should play, so as to add to the discussion., Im certainly interested in seeing what the england sides will look like.

Martin Johnson is set to cut his squad to 39 before the Wales games, but I still wouldn't use that many.

In the two Wales games I would test some combinations before playing the top strength team against Ireland.

First game I would go with:
Foden, Ashton, Tindall, Hape, Cueto, Flood, Youngs, Corbisiero, Thompson, Cole, Lawes, Palmer, Croft, Moody (C), Easter.
Mears, Stevens, Shaw, Waldrom, Simpson, Wilkinson, Tuilagi.

And for the second game:
Foden, Ashton, Tindall, Flutey, Banahan, Flood, Care, Sheridan, Hartley (C), Stevens, Deacon, Palmer, Wood, Haskell, Easter.
Mears, Corbisiero, Botha, Robshaw, Wilkinson, Tuilagi, Armitage.

By my count that's 33 players, and I'd pick my squad for the Ireland game from that lot and indeed the World Cup squad from that lot.

Planned substitutions would be for second row sub, back row sub, Wilkinson and Tuilagi coming on around the 50 minute mark for Palmer, Easter, Flood and Tindall in both matches. That way, we give 4 players who will play both matches (and are likely starters against Ireland in the World Cup) a bit of a rest, and we get to look at Tuilagi at 13 and some of the options for the last forward spot (assuming Deacon, Lawes, Palmer, Croft, Wood, Haskell, Moody and Easter will all be going).

Bit of a risk going into the second test without a substitute scrum-half, but Foden can cover and I'd want to give Armitage (my 30th squad member) a bit of a run-out. Foden can come off for a rest (assuming Care doesn't get an injury) and Care can play the full 80 as I expect Youngs to start against Ireland.

I've picked these two sides so we can answer questions about our first team (while getting everyone game time), as I'm fairly settled on the squad (the only question being which of Botha, Shaw, Robshaw or Waldrom take the last forward spot). The key battles are at 12, 11, 9, 7 and 1 for me.

I would be looking for 3 wins in the summer games, even with the rotation.

robbo277 wrote:

I would be looking for 3 wins in the summer games, even with the rotation.

Whatever team plays out of each squad these games are going to be tough encounters and not 'run outs' against the baabaa's or a select 15.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how that warrants such a reaction. We beat Wales away in the Six Nations, and if you look at my away team it isn't too far away from the team that played that day.

I have Flutey in for Hape, Banahan in for Cueto, Care in for Youngs and Stevens in for Cole. That's it. And it's not like I'm saying we should definitely win or thrash the pants of Wales, but it will be a winnable game and to get 3 wins before the World Cup would be fantastic.

Ireland away will obviously be our toughest test, but by then I'm hoping that we have gotten up to speed and will put our strongest 22 out, so they have time to play together, hopefully banish the "Grand Slam demons" and go to the World Cup on a real high.

But no, you're right. How arrogant and silly of me to suggest that England should target 3 wins in 3 tests.

Yes England won at the Millenium against a depleted Welsh team (four or five out), lacking confidence and playing poorly. The clamour from that side of the bridge has been somewhat over the top to say the least. Well done for that narrow (yes narrow) victory, however any semblance of wales getting their game together will be enough to put England away.

Short memories for some of you English, let me remind you that against Ireland you took a kicking in your last match. These matches in august will have nothing friendly about them and i for one, am looking forward to some of the English fans having the smile wiped from their faces.

Bring it on.

redrugbyexile

England fans are feeling optimistic and so we should no matter how badly beat we got by Ireland we did win the 6N. But now the welsh are now thinking after improving after the England game they are now on the up also and both fans seem to be disregarding each other completely for some reason hence the tension at the moment. So gentlemen lets try and keep this civilised and not just and English and Welsh shouting match.

And you took a kicking from France in your last match.

I'm not saying England definitely will beat Wales twice, I'm saying that should be our target. We have to raise our game again from the Six Nations, and a sign of doing that would be to get 3 wins in the August tests.

Classic 606 style post from you red Especially the last paragraph! Calm yer beans. Clutching at straws a bit with the depleted,confidence and playing poor view. It was the first game! Anyhoo...that was ages ago, who cares, its over, gone. These are warm up games. A time to gauge fitness and gameplans. Only a complete drubbing in all 3 games will have me worried.

redrugbyexile wrote:and i for one, am looking forward to some of the English fans having the smile wiped from their faces.

Crikey!

redrugbyexile wrote:Yes England won at the Millenium against a depleted Welsh team (four or five out), lacking confidence and playing poorly. The clamour from that side of the bridge has been somewhat over the top to say the least. Well done for that narrow (yes narrow) victory, however any semblance of wales getting their game together will be enough to put England away.

I seem to remember the clamour from other side of the bridge when was exactly the same score but in Wales favour in 2008. Let's not forget that England were without several players as well, still you can only beat what's in front of you. Stiil, you never beat Wales, just score more points than them.

redrugbyexile wrote:
Short memories for some of you English, let me remind you that against Ireland you took a kicking in your last match. These matches in august will have nothing friendly about them and i for one, am looking forward to some of the English fans having the smile wiped from their faces.

Bring it on.

You seem to have a short memory. Let me remind you that against France you took a kicking in your last match. I'm looking forward to your words being shoved back in your face.

Put your handbags down fellas, your acting like your surprised at this English over confidence/arrogance!
personally I for one am surprised its taken this long to fire up the games only got a week to go!

p.s Wales to win in HQ.

Dai Tryin wrote:p.s Wales to win in HQ.

"wow, sheer out and out arrogance! and you lot wonder why most of the rugby world hates you."

So, it's just the English being over confident/arrogant ? What is it called when Wales fans predict their side to win ?

I'm tempted to say that the result is secondary to the performance, but not in this case, a Welsh win at Twickenham wouldn't go down well at all. Not so bothered about the away fixtures.

I'd be tempted to send a team with more fringe players to the Millennium Stadium, then send the starters out to Landsdowne road because it is the final one.

Team I would pick for Twickenham:

01. Andrew Sheridan
02. Steve Thompson
03. Dan Cole
04. Courtney Lawes (If fit)
05. Tom Palmer
06. Tom Croft
07. Lewis Moody (He’s probably going to be picked anyway)
08. Nick Easter

09. Ben Youngs (If fit)
10. Toby Flood

11. Chris Ashton
12. Shontayne Hape
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Mark Cueto
15. Ben Foden


AT the Millenium Stadium

01. Alex Corbisero
02. Dylan Hartley
03. Matt Stevens
04. Tom Palmer
05. Louis Deacon/ Mouritz Botha
06. James Haskell
07. Tom Wood
08. Nick Easter

09. Danny Care
10 Jonny Wilkinson

11. Charle Sharples
12. Matt Banahan (I believe it is going to happen)
13. Mike Tindall
14. Mark Cueto
15. Ben Foden

As a wales fan, I fully expect England to beat Wales in both games. In the 6n's both teams were missing key players and I thought Wales did well to finish within 7 points of England.
On the welsh squad. I'm amazed nobody has put Ryan jones in at no8. Im not saying I'd pick him there, but for some reason gatland seems to love picking the useless lumbering lump and although he hasn't got over the gain line since 2008, he did pretty well in the 6 n's in terms of the amount of work he gets through. Personally he isn't mobile enough to play 8. It's clutching at straws to play him in the 2nd row. I see him more as a blindside, but he's not as good as lydiate.
I hope gatland doesn't experiment too much as we need to be going into the WC with some confidence.
Wales can blame injuries for poor results, but there's no getting away from the fact that we've won 5 out of out last 18 games. England may have been poor at times, but they're getting it together when it counts and Wales are a team on the slide.

I would like to think that Gats will play his near strongest team for all three, with a few newbies coming off the bench...but alas this is Gatland!
We need to build some confidence within the team and only wins, not performances, will have the desired effect. I do however find it encouraging that very little has been heard from the Welsh camp... but there's still time for Gatland to employ his playground like mind games that only serve to be detrimental to the Welsh cause.

Will Tindall play at Twickenham? I would play him, but I've just seen on BBC that it's his wedding today, and there is only a week before the Wales game. Maybe he'll look at Tuilagi or Banahan at 13 and bring Tindall in for the second game.

wales and england will provide each other with two extremely hard tests. there will be no walkovers.

wales have a lot to do. we have to give experience to our fringe players (eg. priestland, faletau) who will very likely be required as cover at some point in the tournament, and we need to build some key partnerships; eg backrow, center.

it's a pity (and due to poor calls by gatland) that wales have had so few convincing results in the last season or two, it means wins are desperately needed. i would enjoy getting 3 wins before rwc but i feel performance is the most important thing for wales in the summer tests.

I wouldn't of played Tindall if he was available. England need one game without the Tin/Hape centre duo. Tuilagi/Banahan or Flutey/hape/tindall.

Breadvan

I wanted to see both Flutey and Hape given a go with Tindall so we can see how they both go, while giving Tuilagi time off the bench (with both 12s), although if Tindall hasn't had sufficient preparation then obviously we should leave him out. In which case I would probably go with Hape and Banahan (with Tuilagi coming off the bench) and then go with Flutey and Tindall in the second game.

Not expecting too much from either England game.We are stronger only in the front row and backrow.Not enough to swing things our way.Our back play has been poor ever since Howley has been involved.Coincidence or what?

C'mon Wales. You can do it. Knock the English over and remind them that they can wear all black, but they'll still be a limited 10 man team bolstered by a bunch of foreign sea canaries.

robbo277 wrote:Breadvan

I wanted to see both Flutey and Hape given a go with Tindall so we can see how they both go, while giving Tuilagi time off the bench (with both 12s), although if Tindall hasn't had sufficient preparation then obviously we should leave him out. In which case I would probably go with Hape and Banahan (with Tuilagi coming off the bench) and then go with Flutey and Tindall in the second game.

Yeh I'd go with that

Did someone mention Henson...no, sorry.

Dai, Gatland will have to play him to justify his place in the squad! What are the chances of GH having a stormer v England?

Henson may well have a stormer especially against the English, where he has previous and he does, as we all know enjoy the limelight and a stage on which to perform...but if he does play out of his peel I would happily eat my shirt!!

...But if the opposite is true will Gatland have the plums to drop him or will he persevere with him to try and play him into form. Personally I would rather go with JD2 who deserves his chance after coming through the grades.

I really hope Tuilagi gets a chance to smash Henson at HQ or the Millenium. But I am sure many Welsh fans hope Henson does the same to Ashton

No no MBC smash him all you like but good call on Ashton although new found respect on taking that punch chwarae teg.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:I really hope Tuilagi gets a chance to smash Henson at HQ or the Millenium. But I am sure many Welsh fans hope Henson does the same to Ashton

Honestly I just want to see Henson play well. The fact that there hasnt been much news on him other than one article in the western fail is to me good news. He isnt in teh gossip columns, he isnt on telly all the time or in hello leaving nightclubs etc etc etc ad nauseum. If that means he is immersed in rugby then we may just get the best of him. If not then JD and Roberts can do the job in teh centre

I fully expect him to retire from Rugby after the world cup, I just hope that we see Henson play his best at the world cup before he goes off to whatever reality programme he has planned next.

"I would play the best team against Argentina."

That's where we fall out.

I'd leave the experimentation until playing the weakest team, Argentina. England are the best side we'll be facing who are also a similar team to one of our world cup opponents. They're also the 6 Nations champions, a win against them is a must. But we still need a bit of rest before the RWC, which is why i'd make some wholesale changes for Argentina; do you care if we lose to them? They're a shadow of what they were in 2007 and won't make it out of the group stages in this years tournament.

Gatland's biggest problem is that he hasn't given enough of the new crop, more exposure at test level. These games are supposed to be about finalising things and ironing out any problems, not for playing players who have barely had 80 minutes of international rugby. He should have used his time more sensibly. The bs baas game was a great opportunity to experiment. He did a bit, but not enough. Why pick Phillips and jones as half backs? We know what they can do. priestland should have started.
My worry is though that he will have to experiment more than other nations as he hasn't used the lady few years to put a squad together.wales are playing catch up.

TheGreyGhost wrote:C'mon Wales. You can do it. Knock the English over and remind them that they can wear all black, but they'll still be a limited 10 man team bolstered by a bunch of foreign sea canaries.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=shut+up&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=616&tbm=isch&tbnid=MQpup0E7waXeMM:&imgrefurl=http://www.justadventure.com/articles/Shut_Up!/shutup.shtm&docid=jAEDtVKrMabtuM&w=640&h=480&ei=Ig40TtPqC8Gg8QOGzNWgDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=632&vpy=233&dur=496&hovh=184&hovw=246&tx=87&ty=79&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=192&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0

nottins_jones wrote:"I would play the best team against Argentina."

That's where we fall out.

I'd leave the experimentation until playing the weakest team, Argentina. England are the best side we'll be facing who are also a similar team to one of our world cup opponents. They're also the 6 Nations champions, a win against them is a must. But we still need a bit of rest before the RWC, which is why i'd make some wholesale changes for Argentina; do you care if we lose to them? They're a shadow of what they were in 2007 and won't make it out of the group stages in this years tournament.

I dont suggest playing an experimental side nottins_jones I think the sides Ive chosen are capable of beating the English. The problem I have with us picking our "best" line up for either game is Im not sure what our best team for the world cup is going to be until after the two england games. That will give us the Argentina game to give that team a good run out before South africa three weeks later. At the moment there are still too many questionmarks over players. Are Hibbard or Halfpenny going to be fit? Is Faletau or Delve our first choice 8? Do you take Martyn Williams. Is Henson going to be ready? all of these questions wont be answered until after the two England games.

I think we must treat these games as tests but we wont see our first choice team until the Argentina game. I would bet the team picked for Argentina will mirror the team chosen to play the boks.

Tycroes. You're right. But how worrying i's it that we don't know our best team. This should have been sorted out a while ago and gatland only has himself to blame. I think the pack pretty much picks itself, but the back-line, because of injuries, form and an orange bloke is anyone's guess.

To be fair MOG, Gats is hardly to blame for injuries, form or even the orange one. But yeah it is worrying, what makes it worse for me is most of the real questions seem to be over who is going to play 8,9,10. These are definitely positions that should have been nailed down and yep I do blame gatland for that.

BUt hey Id rather be where we are at the moment that where the boks are.

Agree with you.
On the boks. I think they'll target their 2 home matches now. It does seem a strange plan. They may be trying to look after players, but getting thumped in their first 2 games can't be good for morale. I still think they'll be more than a match for us in septber. Rber how their 2nd team came to cardiff last summer and beat our first team. It will be fascinating viewing, as will the warm up games.