Wales Team for the first England game

First topic message reminder :

Im hoping Gatland doesnt go down the Gareth Jenkins route and pick an under strength side, so I dont expect to see too much experimentation. My teams for the warm ups from the squad, giving as many people who stand a chance of being on the plance a go but hopefully strong enough to get momentum, I would play the best team against Argentina. Now whilst I personally wouldnt have bennet anywhere near the squad gatland likes him so.....

England1/ England 2/ Argentina
1. Paul James/ Gethin/ Gethin
2. Matthew Rees/ Rees/ M Rees
3. Craig Mitchell/ Adam/ Adam
4. Bradley/ Bradley/ Bradley/
5. AWJ/ AWJ/AWJ
6. Lydiate/ Lydiate/Lydiate
7. Warburton/ Tipuric/ Warburton
8. Delve/ Faletau/ Delve
9. Mike Phillips/ Tavis/ Phillips
10. Hook/ Stephen Jones/Stephen
11. Aled Brew/ Shane/ Shane
12. Gavin Henson/ Henson/Henson
13. Roberts/ JD2/ Roberts
14. North/ North/ Halfpenny(if fit if not North)
15. Byrne/ Stoddart/ Byrne

16, Burns/ Bennett/ Hibbard
17, Gethin/ Bevvington/ Paul James
19. Ryan/ Charteris/ Mitchell
20. Faletau/ Delve/ Ryan
21. L Williams/ Peel/ Tavis
22. Priestland/ Scott Williams/Hook

Now I fully expect people to scream hook shouldnt be on the bench in our best team, but I expect Jones to be first choice OH. Yes Ive given Henson enough time to play himself in or out of the squad, I would like to see more of Peel but I think he is done for as far as the World Cup is concerned, also cant see JT or Powell really coming back into the reckoning.

at the moment I think Gats probably has his thirty almost nailed down, a lot depends on halfpennys fitness and also wheher hibbard will be ready, whether to take Nuggett for one last hurrah or take Tipuric which I think is a really tight call. I also think if Henson is showing any sort of form he will get the nod.

I expect Gats to go for a 16-14 forwards backs split so the squad is gonna look a lot like this imo

Props

Gethin, Mitchell, James. Adam

Hookers
Rees, Hibbard/Bennett/Burns

2nd Row

AWJ, Bradley, Charteris

Back Row

Lydiate, Warburton, Delve, Faletau, Ryan, Martyn Willams

Scrum Halfs

Phillips, Tavis, Williams

OH

Stephen Jones, Hook, Priestland

Centres

Roberts, Henson, JD2

Back 3

Shane, Halfpenny, Byrne, North, Stoddart.

I would imagine Wales will start with Bradley Davies, Alun-Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warbuton and Gareth Delve, with Ryan Jones and Martyn Williams on the bench. Luke Charteris and Toby Faletau should also be in the squad in my opinion, although I wouldn't be surprised if Powell got the nod over Faletau.

I would be surprised if Powell is there ahead of Faletau, I would say that Powell not being included in the second Poland camp was a clear indication of Gatlands current pecking order.

I would go with Faletau, but I'm not sure if Gatland will. With Delve having not played International rugby for a while, Gatland might try to play it safe and go for the known-quantity in Powell.

robbo277 wrote:I would go with Faletau, but I'm not sure if Gatland will. With Delve having not played International rugby for a while, Gatland might try to play it safe and go for the known-quantity in Powell.

I think Gatland is pretty impressed with Delves performances in the Super 15, he doesn't regard the Premiership as up to much and has said so before. So I guess Delve being over looked so frequently before was due to that...

Really cant see any reason why Powell will be included, he seems to be at the bottom of the pile next to JT

nottins - I've got Melon in there because he lacks game time, and we need to get him up to scratch because he's truly worldclass. Also, it'll be good for our first choice frontrow to get a run out as an unit.

I doubt Powell or JT will have a big part to play from now on. I like Martyn as much as the next guy but I can't justify taking him to the WC on sentiment if it's keeping out a more deserving player. If we take 6 backrowers + Ryan and Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau are on the plane then we have to select 3 of:

Powell, JT, Delve, Tipuric, Turnbull, McCusker, Williams.

Those 3 positions are certainly up for grabs...

Draigoch wrote:nottins - I've got Melon in there because he lacks game time, and we need to get him up to scratch because he's truly worldclass. Also, it'll be good for our first choice frontrow to get a run out as an unit.

I doubt Powell or JT will have a big part to play from now on. I like Martyn as much as the next guy but I can't justify taking him to the WC on sentiment if it's keeping out a more deserving player. If we take 6 backrowers + Ryan and Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau are on the plane then we have to select 3 of:

Powell, JT, Delve, Tipuric, Turnbull, McCusker, Williams.

Those 3 positions are certainly up for grabs...

I agree with you on Williams and considering he could have already won a hundred caps on sentiment and hasnt i dont think he will go compassion alone.

But did you read my point regarding him going with Wales as an assistant or Waterboy, could be pretty useful to have a player of his experience around the lads for a bit longer.

There is a lot of people (me included) on these boards that have criticised Gatland of late for some of his selections.

I will say it hear and now that I WILL ALWAYS support the Boys whatever team takes the field BUT if Powell or Thomas gets the nod over either Delve or Faletau then I will have lost what faith I have left in the management.

our back row is looking very good for the future, but a backrow of (for example) lydiate, warburton, faletau, isnt the most sensible choice for a world cup. ryan and martyn's services will be required.

either ryan or martyn should play in the warm up tests.

ryan has secured his place with his new found versatility, and his superb skills-ball carrying not being one i grant you.

martyn is so specialised it makes it more difficult to find him a place, and probably it means leaving out warbuton, but his experience is something we cannot ignore. williams is still a game breaker and an unorthodox player that makes life very hard for the opposition. he will not be selected out of sentiment.

my rwc backrowers would be lidiate, tipuric, warburton, faletau, martyn, ryan.

dog,

I am pretty sure that bhoth Ryan and Martyn will get some game time over the next 3 games and go to NZ however they are not best in their positions at the mo.

Warburton and Lydiate and earned their places as our 1st choice 7 n 6 the decision is who plays at No8 for me it would be Delve

dogtooth wrote:our back row is looking very good for the future, but a backrow of (for example) lydiate, warburton, faletau, isnt the most sensible choice for a world cup. ryan and martyn's services will be required.

martyn is so specialised it makes it more difficult to find him a place, and probably it means leaving out warbuton, but his experience is something we cannot ignore. williams is still a game breaker and an unorthodox player that makes life very hard for the opposition. he will not be selected out of sentiment.

my rwc backrowers would be lidiate, tipuric, warburton, faletau, martyn, ryan.

Dogtooth, once our great minds thought alike and we were unstopptable. Now we have to agree to disagree RE Martyn Williams.

I'm sick and tired of hearing how his experience is vital to our world cup campaign, etc... It's been vital to every one of our international games in the past two years but we haven't seen it... He's no longer a game breaker and hasn't been for years. His form for the Blues has been woeful. He was overpowered by younger, bigger back-row forwards constantly and ended up giving away a lot of penalties. I can't see how his selection is justified. His contract extension was a joke, I'd hope it doesn't harm the chances of the likes of some of Ponty U20's back row forwards that we seen this year come through. IF he does go to the world cup then I'm for maes' idea (waterboy). Perhaps he could start against Namibia and certainly one of the warm-up games. If it was up to me though, I would exclude him. Remember, he was left out of the 6 Nations for good reasons.

First choice back-row would be Lydiate, Warburton, Jones. With Faletau as cover, or Delve.

nottins_jones

"His name's Henry Jones Jr... We named the dog nottins."

nottins_jones, this feels all wrong but I agree with you about Martyn Williams. His mind might be as quick as ever, but his body's that vital split-second too slow for the top level now.

I don't rate his mind anymore either, hence the rate at which he was giving away silly penalties towards the end of the season. You re-sign a player on form not on past rep or 'loyalty.'

nottins_jones wrote:
Dogtooth, once our great minds thought alike and we were unstopptable. Now we have to agree to disagree RE Martyn Williams.

Does anyone know when WG is naming the side? A Welsh colleague just asked me (no idea why).

4th - this Thursday.

Cheers

nottins_jones wrote:I don't rate his mind anymore either, hence the rate at which he was giving away silly penalties towards the end of the season. You re-sign a player on form not on past rep or 'loyalty.'

Aye its true, but I would like to see him go as an assistant of some sorts to aid the coaching, then should we have an ijure he could cover he would be in the frame.

He would be superbly valuable as a backroom staff member.. surely the WRU could shell out £40 a day plus a £5 lunch money and ask him to sort out his own accommodation?


If he was lucky they'd probably give him more...!

I'm not sure about this waterboy thing. I think we should take the best 30. No exceptions, making it as competitive as possible.

Personally I think Martyn Williams has gotten a little bit slower when he is practising the 'dark arts' and as such he is getting noticed. Seeing as he is not a big man he does not offer much other than his ability at the breakdown. IMO he does not offer as much now as the likes of Turnbull, McCusker, and Tipuric who are larger, faster (of foot) and not too much worse (if at all) at the breakdown. I do however think that as a leadership figure he may well end up going to the RWC (either in the squad or like a modern day Rupert Moon).

Draigcoch - but if he was a waterboy he wouldn't be in the 30 squad members and wouldn't be a playing squad member.
But as Maesteg says if someone got injured and we needed to call up a replacement he'd already be there and close to the squad.

U can't compare him to Rupert - Williams hasn't got a sense of humour for a start!

Yeah maybe, still not convinced mind.

Let's see how he plays in the warm ups!

nottins,

NO WAY is Jones first choice No8 it has to be Delve then Faletau.

I think Faletau's actually 1st choice now. We'll find out soon enough!

Draigoch wrote:I think Faletau's actually 1st choice now. We'll find out soon enough!

I agree, especially as he plays his rugby in Wales

Looks like Williams, Hook, Henson, Roberts for the Eng game. This is great news especially if he plays Toby at 8. Hook (our best 10 by a mile) on the end of Williams speed of thought and pass with Henson time on the ball to release Roberts bulk seems like the best back line we will have fielded for a very long time.

Draigoch wrote:Yeah maybe, still not convinced mind.

Let's see how he plays in the warm ups!

why would that matter as a waterboy...?

his maturity and experience could be a very valuable asset to the squad if he was part of the coaching set up for this world cup

Thats very optimistic deadfred

Exactly Maesteg - if he's a waterboy then he's a none playing member of the coaching staff and it doesn't matter how he plays.

I think a big part of this is sentimentality - as much as I love Martyn he has no coaching experience and has even turned down the Captains armband when offered it. If he can't make it as a player I'm not sure he should go.

I understand we have little to lose, but it's about time we were ruthless. In the NZ game this weekend the players were putting 100% into every hit, ruck and carry because they knew the coaches would have no problem leaving them at home if they didn't. It's about time our players had the same environment.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Thats very optimistic deadfred

Well thats what comes from being dead. Seriously though that's the line-up the telegraph has.

bedfordwelsh wrote:nottins,

NO WAY is Jones first choice No8 it has to be Delve then Faletau.

We don't know who's first choice, not until after the next three games at least. I just put Jones in for his experience which may give our backrow (Lydiate and Warburton) a good balance to it. Delve has been playing down under and is a rookie to the squad so how can he be first choice? Faletau played well against the Bee-baa's.

Draig,

I would have no problem at all if Toby started but Delve has that bit more experience (not Internationally I Know) but GP and now SH.

He is on form unlike Jones (at No8) so I would be happy with either Delve or Faletau starting, as a side issue and to prove no bias just my thoughts I think R Jones will be an integral part of our plans but not first choice.

These games and training sessions may now be the kick up the jacksi we have all said he needs to get him back up there, after all how old is, not that old really?

i am surprised to see so many posters favour of Lloyd Williams over the last couple of days.

He is still behind Phillips and Knoyle and it would be a big surprise to see him selected.

I think this is only due to the press getting a little overly excited about Gatlands recent statements.

He is a very talented player, but as an alternative to Phillips I think Knoyle still has the upper hand.

I dont mind which of the two other than phillips get their break, they are both very exciting players and I am pleased that we have such promising talent emerging.

nottins,

You're right we won't know whose first choice (maybe even after these games) and then we may still not agree but Delve and Faletau have both shown more recent form than Jones at No8 and Delve maybe seen as a rookie but he has been involved in Squads including the 08 GS Squad and has top class GP and SH experience.

As I said I think Jones will play an important part in NZ but for me he will start more as a bench player than starting.

Guys i am just happy we have options beyond Powell, Thomas and Jones now.

Remember there is also the possibility of Warburton at 8 too.

How about Tuperic, Lydiate and Warburton as an option...?

RE: Lloyd,

Phillips had an ok game against the Baa-baas and struggles to give us the quick pass that we crave. I have my doubts about Knoyle, having seen him play a few stinkers for the Scarlets.

I'd be thrilled to see Lloyd (who so far has only shone when I've seen him) given a chance. Any more is up to him really. As it should be.

We desperately need a SH who makes decisions quickly. That is what will get our back-line moving. Phillips stand there for too long looking around before he executes - ideally you want the SH making up his mind about what he is going to do as he is running to the breakdown. Williams seems to be quick minded in this way and with his speed of pass it would really help get them moving forward and posing many more questions of the opposition. Hook outside our quickest SH is the answer to our problems.

deadfred wrote:We desperately need a SH who makes decisions quickly. That is what will get our back-line moving. Phillips stand there for too long looking around before he executes - ideally you want the SH making up his mind about what he is going to do as he is running to the breakdown. Williams seems to be quick minded in this way and with his speed of pass it would really help get them moving forward and posing many more questions of the opposition. Hook outside our quickest SH is the answer to our problems.

I would say the same about Knoyle to the extent that I think it was him more than anyone else that got them going in the back line this year.

Similarly though I agree that Lloyd Williams looked similar for the BLues, certainly several steps ahead of Richie Rees.

outside bets for the wales XV.

shane 9

priestland 10 or 15

ryan and martyn in the backrow.

shane at 9 could be a realy confusing prospect for the opposition. priestland at 15 would be a good call in the warmups. (he should have started at 15 against eng in the 6N 11, leaving hook at center. and no, i wont stop saying that, ever!)

i doubt the old guard, (picks from martyn, ryan, buggyboy, jt) will fill a wales backrow again, but i do expect one from ryan or martyn to start along side the up-and-commers in every game wales play through the warmups and rwc.

Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

I think Byrne is on the list of established players returning from injury that need a few games under their belt first...

I presume that Byrne, Henson, Shane Williams and Gethin Jenkins will start every warm up match.

munkian wrote:Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

Especially in defense.

munkian wrote:Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

it would. we could have a very good back three, maybe brew, north, hp. shane might be a little off the pace at 30plus but he is still an awsome player with an unatural ability to evade a tackle. played well at scrum half when phillips got the yellow (jeez, that was a long time ago now though wasnt it)

magic daps must play. stick him at 9 and lets have a look.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

munkian wrote:Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

Especially in defense.

shane's defensive tactic is to grab hold and hang on.

dogtooth wrote:

munkian wrote:Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

it would. we could have a very good back three, maybe brew, north, hp. shane might be a little off the pace at 30plus but he is still an awsome player with an unatural ability to evade a tackle. played well at scrum half when phillips got the yellow (jeez, that was a long time ago now though wasnt it)

magic daps must play. stick him at 9 and lets have a look.

This thread is calling for anyone bar Mike Philips with the slightest ability to play scrum half rather than Phillips, reign it in a bit lads its getting silly...!

dogtooth wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

munkian wrote:Shane at 9 would certainly be interesting !

Especially in defense.

shane's defensive tactic is to grab hold and hang on.

Shane Williams' defence for a player of his size is exceptional, as is his ability to beat players almost a foot taller than him in the air...

I don't think we should move Warbs from 7 unless absolutely necessary and considering we have Delve, Faletau, Jones, McCusker (when fit) and (dare I say it) JT and Powell as no 8 options I don't think we need/want to move him and make the same mistake as we made with Hook & JT.

I think we've got options of Lydiate, Warbs, Delve - Lydiate, Warbs, Faletau,
Delve, Warbs, Jones - Lydiate, Turnbull/Tupric, Delve they seem pretty decent options especially as you've got McCusker and Williams as cover!

Interesting call for Shane - could give something unexpected but is very silly to consider him in a WC year - I'd agree to have a look at him in the AI's or against Italy in the 6N - especially if we didn't have any SH options, but we do have options, and I'm not sure Shane would get the space to play against SA or even Fiji/Samoa

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I don't think we need/want to move him and make the same mistake as we made with Hook & JT.

You know JT was a 7 or 8 when he first played for Wales in 2003, he was moulded into a 6 later.