3N no. 2 Oz vz NZ Eden Park and signs pdv is leaving us...

http://www.allblacks.com/news/16963/Nucifora-impressed-but-Eden-Park-holds-no-fears

Have to admit I dont see the point in Nucifora stating the obvious and seeing that somehow as an advantage.

I love the forum comments on this one:

"Wow such a genius. It matters not that you know the strengths of the All Blacks, dont for one second think that makes you anymore prepared for what you are going to face this weekend. Everyone knew Jonah Lomu was the most dangerous ball runner in the world but did that ever stop him from running straight through over and on top of you?????
And no having a young side is not a possitive considering age'd and experienced sides win world cups. "

My sentiments exactly. Not sure what his point was...but thats the media for you I suppose...

On the Sa front to me his comments say 'thanks and goodbye...'

http://www.allblacks.com/news/16965/Losses-good-for-the-Springboks-future-

I think his brief was to bring this team here to do the best he could with them. He has so far not even echoed a mention about those players not here, nor talked about who he would bring back in etc and is talking about what the next coach will have as a positive.

Not sure if the rules allow it but I reckon pdv has just coached his last test, or at leasrt wont be coming back to NZ i the near future.

And how things can change in less than 3 weeks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/5374993/Wallabies-can-beat-anyone-now-says-Deans

3 weeks ago they couldnt beat the 10th ranked nation....what a ridiculous comment to make on the back of a loss to Samoa and a 19 point win over a second SA team. He uses Hong Kong, the Reds and 5 names as the reason they can 'regularly beat any team in the world".

Man has he caught the great ozzie belief system with a passion. He never spoke like that while with the Crusaders and regardless that it was the Oz second team against Samoa. It was still Australia, still a test, and still under Deans watch. It confirms that without the top 15 Oz are nothing and have no depth, and I'm sorry Robbie, but given the 19 point win over a clearly no. 2 SA, it wasnt that convincing...

unbelievable..
Appreciate that its a way of hyping up the occasion on Saturday so am assuming its purely a display of faith rather than an an actual belief in where Oz is currently at...

To me, Nucifora is merely engaging in standard issue 'coach-speak'. To wit, the ABs are even better than they looked against the Boks (as he dutifully genuflected), but we are still confident and Eden Park is a great place to play. Platitudes, nothing more.

On the other hand, is PDV really thinking about going? Or is he engaging in some form of psychological gamesmanship? You know, he might be the type of genius so advanced mere mortals such as ourselves cannot comprehend his nefarious ways.........

Yes agree re Nucifora. Just think that between he and Deans they could come out with something of substance or just say nothing at all.

We'll just see how it all pans out. I just dont see that Oz can take out of the last 2 matches as much as they like to think yet even now Deans still thinks he knows enough to project that kind of thinking cross the rugby world.

Sure, Oz can beat any team in the world, but, by the same thinking, so can Samoa so I guess hes not actually saying much at all.

What are you upset about mate? I can see you are, but I can't figure what has got your goat.

You sledging our belief system seems to be the worst thing said through all of this, but I'm ok with that because obviously you have a problem you need to express.

personally i thought david nucifora was being diplomatic,and is probably more qualified than anyone outside of New zealand to talk about Eden Park.
If he is still in the employment of the Australian rugby union,Then they as his employer should expect him to speak in a very positive manner about anything relating to Australian rugby.
Perhaps the interviewer should have asked him to comment on the Australian frontrow,he may well have some opinion on that subject that he would prefer to keep to himself....

Taylorman wrote:And how things can change in less than 3 weeks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/5374993/Wallabies-can-beat-anyone-now-says-Deans

3 weeks ago they couldnt beat the 10th ranked nation....what a ridiculous comment to make on the back of a loss to Samoa and a 19 point win over a second SA team. He uses Hong Kong, the Reds and 5 names as the reason they can 'regularly beat any team in the world".

Man has he caught the great ozzie belief system with a passion. He never spoke like that while with the Crusaders and regardless that it was the Oz second team against Samoa. It was still Australia, still a test, and still under Deans watch. It confirms that without the top 15 Oz are nothing and have no depth, and I'm sorry Robbie, but given the 19 point win over a clearly no. 2 SA, it wasnt that convincing...

unbelievable..
Appreciate that its a way of hyping up the occasion on Saturday so am assuming its purely a display of faith rather than an an actual belief in where Oz is currently at...

Well, you've come out swinging today, Taylorman!

From my perspective, I am tiring of the coaches comments as well, particularly Nucifora who seems to have a higher profile than the other assistant coaches. Maybe he is auditioning to take over from Deans - it won't happen. I just wish blokes like Nucifora (and Jim Williams) start putting some rubber on the road in demonstrably showing the forward pack is actually the real deal - they are part of the forward coaching set up and have had 4 years to fix it. They were average rugby players now they are average coaches.

As for Deans, well, I think it his way of reinforcing belief among a very young side. They don't have the background or the track record to claim a lot so it is all about belief. The Reds had the same attitude all through the season and it didn't exactly fail for them. You cannot underestimate that though - these Gen Y guys are fuelled by confidence alone and have a lot of arrogance about them that usually fades a bit with age. For now, it is not a bad strategy - at the elite level it is 80% about what is going on between their ears. The ABs don't have to take this approach as the side is more mature and settled. Each to their own.

What I did find typically churlish is the NZ media's desire to try and beat up a story of how the ABs are "seething" about the way in which Australian teams go about celebrated their wins, such as the Hong Kong test and Digby Ioane's "break dancing" after the SR Final. I mean if their celebrating was seen as over the top, it is pretty sad. W lost 10 tests in a row and having won one, who would bregrudge them celebrating in style? The NZ media and some of their fans. It's sad. I put it done to them being being peed off about losing and yes that Hong Kong test hurt - they just have to suck it up.

As for where OZ rugby is now, it is too early in the season to tell as far as I am concerned - they are notoriously slow starters every year. No question though that the ABs consider them their biggest threat this year - you will see that when they name their side for Aug 6.

See they have just named the squad for the weekend. No Samo and no Beau. Im heading towards your side of the fence Rob. Those two should be getting a run. Id still assume that Sharpe is the third lock, and they are trying to work out who is number four.

24-MAN WALLABY SQUAD
Ben Alexander
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Kurtley Beale
Luke Burgess
Quade Cooper
Pekahou Cowan
Rocky Elsom (c)
Anthony Faingaa
Saia Faingaa
Will Genia
Scott Higginbotham
Matt Hodgson
James Horwill
Digby Ioane
Sekope Kepu
Pat McCabe
Ben McCalman
Stephen Moore
James O’Connor
David Pocock
Rob Simmons
Sitaleki Timani
Lachie Turner
Dan Vickerman

Well if theyre going to keep splashing groundless statements based on nothing then im gonna comment boomeranga.

I dont see it as a problem at all. Particularly if its deans who has had so many 'oh didnt see that coming' moments he should know better.And frankly, I dont think he knows where his team is at the moment.

hi ya rob.yes I thought the bit about the celebrating was stupid too. who are we to say who should celebrate and how.

Same with finegan announcing that both pocock AND george smith are superior to mccaw. I mean come on.

anyway.ill try not to bite too much but sometimes well...

boomeranga wrote:See they have just named the squad for the weekend. No Samo and no Beau. Im heading towards your side of the fence Rob. Those two should be getting a run. Id still assume that Sharpe is the third lock, and they are trying to work out who is number four.

24-MAN WALLABY SQUAD
Ben Alexander
Adam Ashley-Cooper
Kurtley Beale
Luke Burgess
Quade Cooper
Pekahou Cowan
Rocky Elsom (c)
Anthony Faingaa
Saia Faingaa
Will Genia
Scott Higginbotham
Matt Hodgson
James Horwill
Digby Ioane
Sekope Kepu
Pat McCabe
Ben McCalman
Stephen Moore
James O’Connor
David Pocock
Rob Simmons
Sitaleki Timani
Lachie Turner
Dan Vickerman

Yeah, it appears that neither Beau nor Samo are figuring in Deans thinking. All that hullaballoo about using the Reds as momentum and he doesn't even pick them. Only 5 in the starting 15 and there is still more Brumbies and Force players in the 15 than Reds and Waratahs. Incredible. Beau got 20 mins against Samoa and it seems he is now permanently banished, yet Hodgson is still in the 22 after an absolute shocker.

Looks to me that Simmons, Horwill and Vickerman are booked in and the 4th will be out of Sharpe and Timani - Sharpe left out altogther though so it is not looking good for him. Yet Timani had a forgettable game against Samoa - dropping balls and beaten badly in the collisions - he looked average, yet here he pops up ahead of Sharpe. When Sharpe, Hodgson and Co came on against Sa things fell away badly - yet Hodgson is still there and Sharpe isn't. Cannot work out these forward selections.

Rob B
Just reading your last paragraph about the locks, are we to assume that Vickerman is replacing Sharpe, i can understand that there may be some questions asked of Sharpe recently, but to replace him with Vickerman?? I actually cant even remember him doing much in SXV,Is he just coming back from injury?

Vickerman has been studying at Cambridge for the last 3 years and only returned after his final exams about 2 weeks before the end of the regular SR season and he sat on the bench for 2 games I think for the Waratahs. He is a very classy player and Deans is very keen on him. His problem is match fitness as he strained his back recently and missed the bench spot against SA. He played a full game at club level on the weekend and appranelty had a great game.

I think Sharpe is on the outer because of a soft game against Samoa and also no real impact when he came on against SA. He had a very good SR season and his main strength is running the line out. When the ARU refused to give him a top up contract for next year, I guess the writing was on the wall back then. However, he is not seen as being hard enough in the tackle area and seems less willing to do the hard stuff around the ground. In Simmons and Vickerman, they have guys who can run the lineout and also get much more involved in tight play. They add much more starch to the tight 5, the scrum looks better as well - last year with Mumm and Sharpe - well, they are probably not the best scrummagers around. The big question I think is whether Vickerman can regian full match fitness in time.

Vickerman and Timani are about the physicality that is required.
Despite an average game with his habds v Samoa Timani did some tough work. Got overshadowed by the lackluste other 7. Vickerman is a good back up to Horwill and Simmons

Taylorman wrote:And how things can change in less than 3 weeks...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/5374993/Wallabies-can-beat-anyone-now-says-Deans

3 weeks ago they couldnt beat the 10th ranked nation....what a ridiculous comment to make on the back of a loss to Samoa and a 19 point win over a second SA team. He uses Hong Kong, the Reds and 5 names as the reason they can 'regularly beat any team in the world".

Deans doesn't say they can beat anyone, he said that the side is now convinced they can beat anyone.

Anyway, as much as I'd like a Wallabies win on Saturday I don't think they'll be quite up for it. I've had too many hopes dashed over the years. You always know what you're going to get with the AB's and that's all the little things done well. NZ by 6.

Reality check,this is looking to be a very promising Wallaby side.Also this is a very good All Blacks side.On the strength of a good but Narrow win in Hong Kong and two Home wins versus Crusaders at Home there tails are up
and they fancy there chances.
But they have lost 10 out of the last 11 versus the All Blacks,and 2 out of the last 3 versus England.
They have beaten the All Blacks 12 times at home since 1903,there last victory at Eden park was pre Professional era,they have notched 3 away wins in the professional era.
Stats say All Blacks home win,of course they COULD win at Eden Park,I don`t think they will.
At Home last match of Series in Brisbane where the All Blacks have won the last three.YES a very real chance of a win,imjuries at that point will be crucial.
BOKS will want to win there Home legs this 3Ns could be down to bonus points.
All Blacks will be looking for a win,injury free without conceding a bonus point.
I think this All Black side will pick up a bonus point at least in Brisbane and IF they field the full strength side could well win it there.
RWCS are another matter but 30 odd losses to all comers in NZ since 1903 gives the ABs some hope this time.

In fairness there have been a lot of close games. Of the 10 in a row the W lost, 6 were by less than 6 points. And in 3N, I am quite sure there were yellow or red cards handed to W players in each of the three games against the ABs. Over time the games are getting closer.

Reality is the Wallabies were given no chance in Hong Kong as well. And in SR, Reds were given no chance of beating the Crusaders (twice) and the Blues (twice). Looking to history provides some comfort, but that is all that it is - history.

True BUT how many times the REDS play Crusaders in NZ let alone at Home,?

Alan, the truth of the matter is that although the results went NZ's way, most of those games australia were close enough to have won.

They are the one team that fronts up almost every match vs the all Blacks, and with a little bit of luck those results could have looked a lot different.

Reds didn't have to play Crusaders at their home in the final because they finished top. Can't do much about that. Trophy's in the cabinet as they say.

Reality is everyone will continue to tip against Wallabies (like they did with the Reds) until they start winning consistently including not dropping games to the likes of Samoa and England. They only have themselves to blame in this regard. If the weather is fine, the pitch is firm, the referee does not consider McCaw as a long lost son who can do no wrong, it could be one of the games of the year. Here's hoping.

Alan
there's probably a very good reason why Australia hold the number 2 ranking behind New Zealand.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Alan
there's probably a very good reason why Australia hold the number 2 ranking behind New Zealand.

And I think that says it all, kiwis are number one, and the wallabies are chasing.

I hope we win this weekend and start closing thegap.

Gents,

I wouldn't look at the weekend at a chance to either close or widen the gap between Aus and the ABs. Looking at the Wallabies selection it appears to me to have a bit of 'let's test some guys and combinations' about it. I don't think this is necessarily the final match day 22. More competitive and grounded the the NH pre-RWC warm-ups perhaps, but everyone now have their targets firmly set on September. So, to me, I would take out of the match what you can, and look forward 5 weeks to the big kahuna. But I am certainly looking forward to watching.

Australia are a good team and Saturday should be a tough contest.

The result is vital because it's the Bledisloe Cup, if NZ win then it's locked away in the cabinet for another year, additionally and the team that wins will go a long way to staking a claim for this years 3N.

In terms of the RWC though, it probably means nothing. There's still a lot of rugby to play between now and any possible knock out encounter between the two sides. And we've seen in the past that even dominance in the 3N doesn't necessarily translate to a knock out win in the RWC finals.

Yes, Australia beat NZ in HK last year. But Australia had just lost to England, and went on to repeat the feat in London. NZ had already locked away the BC, 3N and were looking to a NH grandslam. Also Donald missed a sitter to close the game out and then handed Oz the ball with time up on the clock. Worrying about whether NZ would beat Aus at the RWC might be in that category of getting ahead of ourselves unnecessarily.

Have to say though, Ted claimed over a year ago that Australia were the biggest threat to NZ in RWC year, when most people were writing them off and dingo had something like a 43% win rate. Smart man, isn't he?

No one disputes the fact Reds deserved the S15 title,and how they won it.
Nor that alot of the All Black victories were close,or they may have had a rub of the green.
BUT in nearly all of the 10 defeats the Wallabies were leading at half time,nearly ALL Super 15 and 3Ns matches are won by the home teams.
I do not dispute this is a very good young Aussie side,by the same token had Carter stayed on in Hong Kong I think OZ would have lost too.
Yes they were close last year,so were the Boks I think the Boks should have won one match at least versus both NZ and Aus.but they did`1nt.
Also I could point out as others here have that the super 15 draw gave the Reds a lot of easy points That had Crusaders and Stormers the same advantageous draw.
The Reds would`nt have had home advantage for either Semi or final,and that the reds would have had to face the Crusaders in NZ.
I WON`T the draw was down to Sanzar,they played and beat those they met and won fair and square.
It is very good the same sides don`t win every thing every year,by the record the Wallabies are THE most successful side in both matches won and away victories in NZ.
BUT stastically there win 5is only 33% give or take the decimal point,and away wins in NZ are a very rare commodity for any side only 30 odd have done it in 108 years.
THAT of course means nothing the best team on the day wins,good luck to both sides Saturday.BUT GO BLACKS !!!

doctor_grey wrote:Gents,

I wouldn't look at the weekend at a chance to either close or widen the gap between Aus and the ABs. Looking at the Wallabies selection it appears to me to have a bit of 'let's test some guys and combinations' about it. I don't think this is necessarily the final match day 22. More competitive and grounded the the NH pre-RWC warm-ups perhaps, but everyone now have their targets firmly set on September. So, to me, I would take out of the match what you can, and look forward 5 weeks to the big kahuna. But I am certainly looking forward to watching.

I think you will find both sides will field their best available 15 (not using the SA definition of best available). Deans will name the same 15 as that which played SA. Unlike the NH approach to the "friendlies" these sides want to go all out to win the Bledisloe and NZ will be desperate to ensure the cocky Ozzies don't get anymore momentum from this game.

that I think is the Wallabies weakest point, no not their scrum, which is weak, but the fact that they often lose the lead and then the game, sometimes even a 2 try advantage lead they'l manage to lose.

I am hoping each time they have lost like that they grow mentalily stronger. Like week before, well up ahead and then ship in 2 tries.

Just on some of the Aus selections, I thought Timani was lucky to get another go. That performance against Samoa bordered on comical. Dingo must have just put that down to debut nerves. He does like to put the odd shot on someone even if some of them are head first.

I may be a lone voice but where is "the 'fro" Samo and Robinson? Robinson is a hard worker and deserves his chance, Radike has presence. I hope Vickerman gets good game time so we can see where he's at. He looked to be the only one with a bit of grunt about him V Samoa.

I'm very much looking forward to this test, should be a cracker. Make no mistake, this game is not just a RWC build up. A win would get the monkey off the Aus back not only beating NZ at home but knowing we can win at Eden Park, crucial since so many big RWC games are there. A kiwi win keeps the foot on the throat. Mouth watering.

Full Credit wrote:Just on some of the Aus selections, I thought Timani was lucky to get another go. That performance against Samoa bordered on comical. Dingo must have just put that down to debut nerves. He does like to put the odd shot on someone even if some of them are head first.

I may be a lone voice but where is "the 'fro" Samo and Robinson? Robinson is a hard worker and deserves his chance, Radike has presence. I hope Vickerman gets good game time so we can see where he's at. He looked to be the only one with a bit of grunt about him V Samoa.

I'm very much looking forward to this test, should be a cracker. Make no mistake, this game is not just a RWC build up. A win would get the monkey off the Aus back not only beating NZ at home but knowing we can win at Eden Park, crucial since so many big RWC games are there. A kiwi win keeps the foot on the throat. Mouth watering.

Agree FC. Dingo's got his favourites and Samo and Beau aint among them. I wouldn't mind if the pack was first rate and there was no room. But it seems the form Reds forwards, includin higginbotham are on the outer - not sure why. Maybe he thinks Quade won the whole thing on his own. Then again he also rates Hodgson and McCalman - both yeoman like players but test players they are not. Neither is Alexander. Big problems if they dont sort it out.

Rob in fairness some of those close matches were 6 points or less and cards may have been issued but no more than the 2 reds results where the final was 5 points and the pool match was decided by a dubious penalty on mccaw.
So either way is fine but regardless all matches did go the ab way other than a last minute try one in hong kong.
If reasons for losing are to be discounted then facts are that oz have won one from so many.
Whether it was the last may mean the gap is closing but it could also mean theu had to get one some time.
My view is when looking at the two results from both teams oz are comparatively in a worse position than the same time of the hong kong match.
They dont have a lot more to add in terms of players whereas the abs have up to 6 previous starters to come back in.
The oz reliance on the 5 stars was huge against the boks and that will be a concern if they dont fire.
My point with deans comment was it wss ill timed. They might believe it but did he have to express it publicly. This week?
ABs have said although its not a prime motivatong factor but the last two losses-hong kong- with coopers clip around mccaws ears at the end-and the reds win- are not lost on them and i think that will show-particularly with the watch on cooper and on the 5.
Laurie the result itself may not affect the world cup directly but the ability for the abs to win at eden park for the rest of the year makes this match a huge one. Win every match there-as they have done 32 from last 34- and the cup is won. So marking the territory so to speak this weekend will be telling everyone how hard it will be to win at eden park.
Lose there and all will see it is possible.
For that reason i think we'll see kapo o pango this week.
In saying that. I dont believe gh will be able to start what could be his best lineup.
Thorne mealamu o franks and read are fresh short of matchplay and gear and toeava are returning from injury. All were incumbants at time of rest or injury.
Returning 6 at one time from layoffs would be unwise and theyll be weaned back in.

Taylorman
This game is very important to both teams, for New Zealand to win we have to be far more accurate in defence than we had to be against Fiji or SA. and at this stage we dont really know where aor D is up to.That wallaby backline can move the ball to the outside fringes of the defensive line better than any other team in rugby,let alone put players and balls into holes.
this wallaby team can win games without winning the possession/territory stakes.The ABs need to use their possession and territory better,committ the Wallababys more into rucks etc so that they dont have the gas when they do get the ball.
Australia are in a unique situation in that they are the only team that play the ABs for a single one off trophy annually,to successfully win the Bledisloe does give the holders momentum over the next couple of months,and in turn both teams have coaches that are good enough to move the project on if they havent got the silverware.

It looks like a lot of the injured are making returns. We look set to see Gear on one wing and I expect to see Toeava named on the bench covering a wing sub, or possible a full back spot. Interesting that Ellis appears to be making a return with Weepu starting. Thorn's locking partner is up for grabs, but I think Williams may get his next/last shot in South Africa.

It could all depend on how quickly the combinations gell. I'm expecting Australia to be leading at half time on that basis.

On reflection, I'm trying to figure out what GH hoped to achieve with so many different back line combos in the last 15 minutes last week.

I'm fairly sure that if NZ get caught up in that cute chip/chase game they became obsessed with last week the wheels could come off.

Casper
you're right the ABs can not recklessly kick the ball away to these australian backs.
Over the last two weeks ted has been ringing the changes in the last 15 mins as you say,purely to give where possible the bench some game time,However I doubt (hope) he will ring the changes like he did in Hong Kong.
He also needs to go with Ali Williams /Brad Thorn on this one at least to start, i would strongly suggest to you that barring injury Williams will be in the ABs programme for the remainder of the year.McCaw may be the Commander in chief however Williams and Thorn are the grubby 5 star generals.

Overall the options look good don't they. Theres now actually too much leadership across the board if that's possible. McCaw didnt have this support in 07 even though the same players have those roles now.

Janes ability to just turn on like that every test is amazing considering he did zip this year and for all Guilfords efforts has jumped back over him in one match.

Looking forward to seeing Thorne back and especially interested to see what the wise 3 have for Cooper

Also, I was reasonable concerned about the ABs inability to turn on the territory game against SA in the second half. If the commentators are to be believed that was the half time instructions.

DC seemed to have no range at all on his punt. We seem to lack someone with genuine range, one of the (arguably few) advantages of having McAllistair in the side is he could pelt the thing a heck of a long way.

casper
Booting the ball to the deepest length of the field doesn't always produce the best results,especially if the receiving team does'nt boot it back to you.
mcAlliter is the last person we need near this set up,in fact it drove me to dispair having him in the Blues,last night he played in a loosing North harbour team to Manawatu.By the way tony Woodcock played a solid 40 mins in his first game in 3 months.

Agreed, but deep and in to touch is always handy. We seemed to have a bunch of penalties kicked to touch that only gained 15-20 meters or so.

And we dont want to adopt the Welsh tactic of not finding touch either.

Just can't see Cooper and Genia not being shut down this weekend, the real start of the end for them if they do it properly.
Nonu might find hes chipped over a fair bit as hes not the fastest on the back foot.

McAlister in no way, shape or form please...has carter just lost some length as he seemd to find some during the sxv? Recall foxy raising it a fair bit...

Big psychological points with the test being played at Eden Park. If the Wallabies win, then that´s beating the ABs on their favourite hunting ground and will give them all the confidence in the world. If the ABs win, then it probably won´t matter as much for the RWC but it´ll be nice to keep that Eden Park record in tact.

ABs were better against the Boks than their bumbling against Fiji. Some top players coming back this week so it´ll be interesting to see whether that upwards trend continues and the combinations start gelling.

Great game in store and can´t wait to see it. Wallabies are looking good but the ABs are hitting their straps particularly Carter.

taylorman
I dont think enough people outside of Australia ( and even some of them dont) look at Genia and Cooper as a quality combination.
We have yet to see more of Genia,if they keep going the way they are then how good could they become?
it would be great to see them trying to kick over Nonu,because they would only do that if they were being frustrated,and ran out of ideas as to how to get around the defense...

Aucklandlaurie,
I think people do regard Genia/Cooper as a good combination. But (and you know a but was coming), whilst Genia seems to developing into a solid, top notch 9, I am not confident about Cooper. He can, obviously be absolutely brilliant with ball in hand, but is also capable of the big clunker. That's a tough reputation to lose, and the only way to lose it is to play top level Rugby throughout the RWC. I like his running style, but is quirky in some decisions. With all the marbles on the table, I am still not sure I want him as my stand off. His kicking is inconsistent and his defense is not the best, though to be fair, many 10s are not rock solid in defense. To me, he is the best Aussie option at stand off. And it helps a lot to have Genia feeding him.

Doc
Cooper has that traditional brilliant vision that so many Aussie 5/8ths have had ie Ella, Larkham etc.
we often marvel at breaks that are made by Australian outside backs, and a lot of that is due in part to the anticipation and steering of the halves combination.
The more i think about it,there must be some NRL franchises that would have to interested in Cooper,he reminds me of a young Benji Marshall..

Agree Cooper has the vision (is that some weird genetic Aussie thing?). But I don't get the feeling of control that Larkham had. I don't think Larkham was the athlete Cooper is, but he always saw the right place to pass, kick or run. Mark Ella was very aggressive, but also gave me the feeling of controlling the game. I am not getting that from Cooper at the moment. But, to be fair, he is still young and can grow into it.

I never connected Cooper to Benji Marshall before, but that is a great catch! Absolutely. Especially after he moved up from fullback. Unfortunately for Rugby, I understand the NRL interest in Quade, and that might actually be his best sport. Good stuff, mate.

Parramatta chased QC very hard late last year, and I think he is certain to go that way at some point. Kurtley talks of an interest as well.

Tie that with the $1bn deal the NRL are saying they are going to achieve, and it will be bad news for oz rugby, not just for Cooper and Beale, but for competing with them for young talent generally. That's even enough money to impact NZ rugby as well, albeit to a lesser extent.

I remember Cooper being sought after by Parramatta. I don't know how close Cooper actually was to moving, but it seemed a close run thing from what I read. The one billion seems quite high to me, but if thats real, then they will nail down Cooper and a number of others.

Do you see Beale as a league player? For some reason I don't see him fitting in as well as in Rugby. But I can't put my finger on it.

too true it most definitely would impact on NZ rugby. i bet its already in Koder Nasser's diary already, together with Sonny Bills cv.
Imagine going to a league game with quade and benji wearing the respective no.6 jerseys,you'd get your moneys worth for sure...

That would be something. But I can't see certain gents at the ARU taking the same excitement out of it.

doctor_grey wrote:I remember Cooper being sought after by Parramatta. I don't know how close Cooper actually was to moving, but it seemed a close run thing from what I read. The one billion seems quite high to me, but if thats real, then they will nail down Cooper and a number of others.

Do you see Beale as a league player? For some reason I don't see him fitting in as well as in Rugby. But I can't put my finger on it.

It seems a huge amount to me as well Doctor, as for memory they received about $470m last time. One difference is that the AFL just signed for $1.25bn and they (apparently) used some clever ways of breaking up their content (tv, web, video, phone, free to air v Fox) to maximise their cash and which the NRL will be able rip off. The other side of that coin though is $1.25 is already spent, so how much more can the same companies afford to blow?

I dont know about Kurtley as a leaguie. I'm less convinced of him moving the Cooper, but you would think big money will come for him and JOC eventually as they both also have league background as kids. Losing either of those two would be a huge blow to us.

Well, lets hope for the best and the ARU keeps hold of their players. You know, I really don't mind the more mild form of rivalry between League and Rugby. But, especially in Australia, Rugby is in a more precarious position than elsewhere. Really want to see Rugby keep its stars. Though it alwasy fascinates me which players make the transition for one to the other.

Hasta manana.

Taylorman wrote:
My view is when looking at the two results from both teams oz are comparatively in a worse position than the same time of the hong kong match.
They dont have a lot more to add in terms of players whereas the abs have up to 6 previous starters to come back in.
The oz reliance on the 5 stars was huge against the boks and that will be a concern if they dont fire.
.

I don't see why OZ would be in a worse position now compared to Hong Kong. They started that test with Giteau at 12, and with him now dropped that is a plus. With Ioane in at wing now I think that is a net plus - though he needs to concentrate on catching the ball more. They lose a bit without Robinson at prop, but gained a lot with Horwill, Simmons and Vickerman as 3 locks who were not in Hong Kong. Higginbotham from the bench is in terrific form now - he was not in great form on the AI tour.

As for players to come into the starting team there are players to add:

- Slipper at tighthead. I believe he is about a week away. Alexander should be making way for him eventually
- TPN at hooker. He is a much bigger and confronting player than Moore. Very good in the scrum and huge defensive work. He will start RWC games on the bench and look to force his way in.
- Vickerman I suspect with force his way into the 15 with Simmons on the bench.
-Palu at No 8. Due to return for the Barbarians game against Canada - the day before the Bledisloe. He is much bigger and imposing than McCalman

With those 4, there is a lot more aggression and hardness added to the forwards.

Looks like Berrick Barnes will be back. Rob horne and Drew Mitch will be putting their hand up as well.

And this year it looks like we have a goal kicker - something we have not really had for 3 or 4 years now.

Conceivably there will be 5 more changes before the best 15 is on the park, critically 4 of those are in the forwards - and 3 were not involved last year.

And I don;t get the references that they rely too much on 5 players. Most sides would love to have 1 of them let alone 5. If one doesn't fire, then there are 4 others who can. With 5 star players in the backs, 5 out of 7 is a ratio that teams envy. So in terms of game breakers OZ have an abundance of choice and depth in that respect. It's nnot as though the ohthers are loafers - AAC and Moore scored tries against SA