Woman complains about "feral racism" of Eden Park crowd

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:39 pm

A life-long rugby fan says she is "completely and utterly ashamed" of some All Blacks supporters after being subjected to abuse at Eden Park on Saturday.

The woman has returned to New Zealand after living in England with her English husband for 40 years, and has sworn to never attend another rugby game at Eden Park after seeing the behaviour around her at the test.

The couple, who have attended All Blacks tests in Europe and been on a Lions tour of South Africa, have never experienced what she called "downright racist and sexist" remarks to opposition supporters.

Her husband was called a "f****** whingeing Pom", and they left the ground feeling heartbroken by the experience.

Her husband was wearing an England shirt and hat, and was subjected to a torrent of abuse she described as "feral racism" filled with swear-words from some AB supporters.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11270790

It's painful to hear about a few idiots letting the side down. We like to think of rugby supporters being above that kind of mindlessness. It was only recently that World cup organisers were being pilloried for suggesting segregated seating.

I've no doubt that crowds in the halcyon amateur days were very capable of some rough words but you can't help wondering whether some these days are transferring their consequence-free online bile into the real world.

As an aside, I've greatly appreciated reading the thoughts of New Zealand contributors in our recent match day threads. It's been a pleasure not to have to abandon them because of the outbreak of hostilities.

by quinsforever Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:20 am

this is disappointing. i would actually hope that the majority of home supporters at any international match would actually step in to prevent this kind of abuse from their own fans of opposition fans.

lets hope its a very isolated incident.

i would say that the atmosphere slightly got the better of Owens too. But we've all seen the stats that show just how much home advantage means in rugby matches and i think it's as true for Eden Park as it is for Twickenham.

but if rugby starts segregating seating then i will 100% stop watching.

by blackcanelion Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:16 am

It's pretty sad. I'm hoping it's unusual. I go to a lot of international matches. My wife's English and wears here white shirt and I can't say we or our friends have had any issues when I've been there. I have one South African mate who didn't enjoy one of the SA/NZ games at Eden Park almost 20 years ago, but that's about it. There are some passionate idiots out there.

by TrailApe Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:41 am

Breaking News

Even NZ has gobshyte idiots

No Poopie Sherlock.

I’m so glad that Rugby is still a niche sport in England.

I’d hate to see the big fat bellied un-shirted Geordies that you get at St James Park appearing on the North Terraces at Kingston Park, gobbing off at the referee and waiving their moobs at the cameras.

Having said that, probably about 98% of the footie lads and lasses would cause no bother at a Rugby match (as long as they have been given a quick run through of the do’s and don’ts), it’s just the 2% that sour the proceedings and it’s them that the media focus on, it seems that the couple in the article have run up against the NZ equivalent of Jimmie Five Bellies and his cronies.

There are a couple of window lickers on the North Stand at Kingston Park always venting vile spleen at the ref, the touch judges and the opposition, people have spoken to them but it never seems to get through to them, I don’t think they are very bright, possibly they might even think they are at a footie match – god knows..

Natures unfortunates.

We've all got them.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:52 am

Not nice to hear but supporters on both sides will hopefully use the next 3 games as an opportunity to prove those involved in this case are very much in the minority.

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:10 am

These clowns are definitely in the minority as they would be in England. Don't condone the behavior at all but crying to the media is equally sad IMO. It's not like the obnoxious fans pulled a knife on them.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:15 am

If people want to highlight poor behaviour they have every right.

by Geordie Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:27 am

I guess it depends on the tone, and it looks like in this case its not been pleasant.
I hope that is a minority indeed.

However i do have many very close Australian friends over in OZ (melbourne) and we have a lot of banter about the POHMS etc...at which i have great pleasure in informing them....THEY are actually the POHMS...

But its all in great banter...and what i expect from them...like the sledging at the cricket.
But its done in the right tone and manner....

by HammerofThunor Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:33 am

Some of the English player autobiographies talk about them being spit on and such while walking onto the field. I don't think there's much difference in behaviour. It's just every event is so much more accessable now. It wouldn't be that long ago that I wouldn't have a clue what the NZ Herald was reporting. Nor the Gloucester Echo or Neath Guardian. There have been plenty of people on here who can relate the odd bad experience. Although it is to be expected that as numbers increase some dickheads will come with them.

by blackcanelion Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:55 am

Just got me thinking. Whilst my experiences at test matches are great, the behaviour of many parents at kids sport is truely abysmal.

by HammerofThunor Tue 10 Jun 2014, 11:04 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27604560

by aitchw Tue 10 Jun 2014, 11:13 am

It's truly sad that their experience has been so bad that they have felt it necessary to publicise it. It does appear to have been really unpleasant. However, we shouldn't over react. For the vast majority one of the joys and sources of pride in our sport is the way we interact as fans before, during and after games. I love the fact we can mingle in the crowds and rivalries just add to the whole experience.

Like everyone else, I hope this is a one off and that they don't stop attending matches as a result.

by Geordie Tue 10 Jun 2014, 11:20 am

Im one of the calmest, peaceful guys around...the gentle giant type.....HOWEVER I hate to say this but if a man had walked on the pitch and tripped my son over...im afraid my subsequent behaviour would not have been very good or role model esque...

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 11:44 am

The lady said her husband was called a "f****** whinging Pom". God bless the NZ media for humouring her.

by quinsforever Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:06 pm

did the england fan in question get upset or just ignore you ebop?

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:13 pm

To be honest it would be interesting to know what the 'whinging pom' had sad prior to the comment. As generally people don't get called whinging if they are just sitting there being respectful to the opposition side themselves.

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:19 pm

Exactly SS. There were a couple of moments. Imagine if the guy had called an AB an ff'ing cheat. It's all anecdotal and all we have is a precious lady's perspective. Like I said, it's not a good look, but there was no violence or violent intentions. Just a couple that couldn't handle the jandle at a stadium and then cried to the MZ media that thought it was newsworthy. NZ is hokey some times and it's why I love the place, that someone being called a 'f****** whinging Pom' makes the news.

by Welly Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:23 pm

TBH to go to the media with just this one official comment suggests that they are "f****** whinging Pom" probably complaining about Owens, in a loud manner. she should of given the other examples of the sexist and racist comments if there where any. I just get the feel the whole story isn't being told here.

People can be so sensitive

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:26 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest it would be interesting to know what the 'whinging pom' had sad prior to the comment. As generally people don't get called whinging if they are just sitting there being respectful to the opposition side themselves.

So are you saying that there can be a trigger or a comment that a spectator says which gives the rest of those around him(her) a green light to no longer be respectful?

by quinsforever Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:30 pm

or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as...

"kiwi on the verge of an eden park defeat gets abusive to england fan who opens mouth"

but slamming the woman for talking about her experience afterward is pretty narrow-minded. that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:34 pm

I'm actually surprised whoever was hurling abuse was left in the stands. From my own experience at Eden Park, security were very quick (a little too eager even) to haul some of the people near me from the stands at that ground as soon as they spotted that general banter was becoming targetted aggressive comments towards specific individuals.

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:34 pm

With plum in mouth....'oh my, I was just called a f***** whinging Pom, how disgraceful these colonials are, I must go to the media to shine a light on this uncouth behaviour' Smile

by thebandwagonsociety Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:35 pm

quinsforever wrote:or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as...

"kiwi on the verge of an eden park defeat gets abusive to england fan who opens mouth"

but slamming the woman for talking about her experience afterward is pretty narrow-minded. that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century.

+1 - totally agree with you.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:35 pm

She's a 'colonial' too.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:36 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest it would be interesting to know what the 'whinging pom' had sad prior to the comment. As generally people don't get called whinging if they are just sitting there being respectful to the opposition side themselves.

So are you saying that there can be a trigger or a comment that a spectator says which gives the rest of those around him(her) a green light to no longer be respectful?

Are you saying there isn't?

Lets assume that prior to that comment the English gentleman had said "Jebus, <Referees name> how many <ladies of the night> can you buy with all the $NZ that their paying you for giving them the game. Your just as much of a cheating <insert colourful insult> as they are", or something similar? Would that not be just cause to be told he was a whinger?

(p.s. not saying that is the case, but generally to be called a whinger means you were whinging to begin with)

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:37 pm

40 years in England makes lily white English 7.5

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:38 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
quinsforever wrote:or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as...

"kiwi on the verge of an eden park defeat gets abusive to england fan who opens mouth"

but slamming the woman for talking about her experience afterward is pretty narrow-minded. that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century.

+1 - totally agree with you.

Quins & Bandwagon, don't you think that your both showing the dame 'feral racism' that the New Zealand fan did

"that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century" - throw in a 'fupping' in there and it is just as bad, if not worse.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:43 pm

Good to know ebop. In all seriousness though I've been sworn at in Murrayfield and in the context of it it was bloody funny. If these people were upset surely that 'banter' is going to far?

by BamBam Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:44 pm

Before coming across this thread, I was reading Wynne Gray's article on England in the NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11270732

This was one of the comments on the article

It has reached a 'TOXIC' level some of the abuse, foul language and drunken behavior some of our All Black supporters spray over our visitors and supporters of visiting teams. Enough is enough and it needs to be dealt with.....at the ground. Who is going to take some action and BAN THESE LOW LIFE LOUTS FROM THE PARK.

I have been to hundreds of sporting events but never have I witnessed the Tsunami of despicable behaviour of many of the All Black supporters I was surrounded by at the game last Saturday....I'm so ashamed to be a Kiwi and found myself apologising to visitors during and after the game.

I lived in the United States for many years and attended football, basketball and baseball at Stadiums and never witnessed last Saturdays shocking behaviour. If it occurs they have a method of dealing with it immediately.

NZ Rugby needs to rid itself of this minority of rugby miss-fits. Surely through the media and the NZ Rugby Union a hard hitting campaign can commence....but more importantly, nab them during the game and show them the gate out if reported. Do something about it. No more will I pay money for my wife and I to be among that rabble ever again. SHAME THEM.

M J Cussock

Obviously this is just one comment off an article on the internet, that could be written by just about anybody, but thought it was relevant to this discussion.

by SecretFly Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:46 pm

F**kin' whingin' 606 nutballs!

You guys never give up ..................... Wink

Oops sorry for the offensive f**kin' remarks there... it's how I f**kin' talk normally and never think that it might f**kin' offend people who don't like it.

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:52 pm

To true 7.5, it'd be just like some kiwi boofhead to pick the wrong Englishman to jive with. We've all been there, I'd just laugh, give em the fingers and tell em to f*** off right back, but you gotta have some nous about it. This kiwi guy picked the wrong people. Anyways, it's a non-story and I guess it's testament to the newsworthiness of the test series that this even makes the news. Tight game. Why not ramp it up by saying kiwi fans are feral racists baying for English blood. It's comical. But I hope the English (ex kiwi) lady is ok.

by Submachine Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:56 pm

Is it not ironical that you are whinginging about whinging?

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:56 pm

by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 10 Jun 2014, 12:59 pm

Read the whole article, it wasn't just them, she mentions another young English girl that was on the verge of tears at the abuse she was receiving; not a one off remark bey the sound of it.

Every country has idiots and they follow most sports, It is just that some of us don't try and justify their animosity and bigotry;we try and do something about it.

I have been at HQ when some supporters started to go over the top with there comments to supporters of the vistiting team, almost to a man (and the odd woman) the rest of the crowd around them to shut up or go and watch football and then the attendants told them to behave or take a walk home.

by Submachine Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:01 pm

ebop wrote:Eh?

ebop wrote:These clowns are definitely in the minority as they would be in England. Don't condone the behavior at all but crying to the media is equally sad IMO. It's not like the obnoxious fans pulled a knife on them.

You seem to be having a good whinge here yourself is all.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm

Precisely WPI. There's always to and fro and you get some brilliant moments like that for having mixed seating. If you knew something you'd said had genuinely upset someone I think most of us would feel pretty rotten rather than blame others for not getting it. You're there to have a good time but not at the expense of others.

by quinsforever Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:10 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
quinsforever wrote:or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as...

"kiwi on the verge of an eden park defeat gets abusive to england fan who opens mouth"

but slamming the woman for talking about her experience afterward is pretty narrow-minded. that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century.

+1 - totally agree with you.

Quins & Bandwagon, don't you think that your both showing the dame 'feral racism' that the New Zealand fan did

"that might be okay down in the nz hinterlands, but it doesn't cover you with glory in the rest of the world which is actually in the 21st century" - throw in a 'fupping' in there and it is just as bad, if not worse.

not the same at all. not abusive. not swearing. "hokey" reference to eden park crowds was made by the same kiwi posters i am directing my comments to. i'm agreeing it's hokey, but saying that's not an excuse in this day and age, and to malign the abused person is just wrong.

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:17 pm

Nah mate, I'm saying that the NZ Herald is hokey that they even printed the story. Out of the thousands of English people in the ground. One guy was called a f**** whinging Pom. If that's the worst that happened, that's a good day. You with me?

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:18 pm

He was upset by it so that's a good day?

by Guest Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:19 pm

To be fair, he was probably very upset at 80 mins.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:22 pm

Is that when you feel the crowd would have had a real go at him?

by Barney McGrew did it Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:25 pm

It's time us whingeing-Poms reclaimed the W-P word with pride - I'm off to have a T-shirt made up proclaiming my whingeing credentials.

And what ho man, if whingeing Poms is the best they can throw at me - well how very dare they.

by SecretFly Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:39 pm

Barney McGrew did it wrote:It's time us whingeing-Poms reclaimed the W-P word with pride - I'm off to have a T-shirt made up proclaiming my whingeing credentials.

And what ho man, if whingeing Poms is the best they can throw at me - well how very dare they.

They did throw a "we're going to get this try that we need now" assault your way at the end though. Which you gotta hand it to them, was more than a 'whingin' POM rant.

On a side note, the thing I always couldn't understand about the "whingin' POM" insult was that it is mostly directed not at POMs but by POMs (or decendants of such). Peculiar one that. It's always a peculiar one.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 1:47 pm

quinsforever wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
quinsforever wrote:or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as....

+1 - totally agree with you.

Quins & Bandwagon, don't you think that your both showing the dame 'feral racism' that the New Zealand fan did......
not the same at all. not abusive. not swearing. "hokey" reference to eden park crowds was made by the same kiwi posters i am directing my comments to. i'm agreeing it's hokey, but saying that's not an excuse in this day and age, and to malign the abused person is just wrong.

But in your attempt to get your comment across you made a comment saying that this sort of think is acceptable in the NZ hinterlands, but not in the rest of the world where they are actually in the 21st century. That in itself is insulting the people of that area for being backwards, and behind the times, and IMO as racist as saying someone is a pom (taff, jock, or any other banter-esque term). It is all down to your perspective, and which side of the fence your sat.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:15 pm

One of the points which stood out for me in the article was this:

Nick Brown, general manager of public affairs for New Zealand Rugby, said the Applaud campaign was launched to tackle anti-social behaviour at rugby games.

In other words, some were already concerned enough about the attitudes coming through in rugby to launch a campaign a year ago.

I don't know how New Zealand crowds compare with others around the world. I did think the booing of Quade Cooper was very boorish but that's the only time I can recall hearing anything specific about New Zealand supporters.

I'm guessing its just the "few idiots" problem but I do think you have to tackle this kind of issue head-on in case "a bit of banter" turns into something nasty. I don't want to see drinks bans at rugby because we can't police ourselves.

by gelodge Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:22 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Read the whole article, it wasn't just them, she mentions another young English girl that was on the verge of tears at the abuse she was receiving; not a one off remark bey the sound of it.

Every country has idiots and they follow most sports, It is just that some of us don't try and justify their animosity and bigotry;we try and do something about it.

I have been at HQ when some supporters started to go over the top with there comments to supporters of the vistiting team, almost to a man (and the odd woman) the rest of the crowd around them to shut up or go and watch football and then the attendants told them to behave or take a walk home.

That was the big issue for me in the article as well. Abuse in general shouldn't be accepted, but I think it's one thing for it to be directed at a man who might feel less intimidated and quite another when there is mention of sexist and racist comments which appear to have been directed at a young girl/woman such that it induced fear and tears. That should be completely unacceptable almost anywhere, let alone within the rugby community.

by quinsforever Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:49 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
quinsforever wrote:or, equally, i dont think anyone would be surprised to read the story as....

+1 - totally agree with you.

Quins & Bandwagon, don't you think that your both showing the dame 'feral racism' that the New Zealand fan did......
not the same at all. not abusive. not swearing. "hokey" reference to eden park crowds was made by the same kiwi posters i am directing my comments to. i'm agreeing it's hokey, but saying that's not an excuse in this day and age, and to malign the abused person is just wrong.

But in your attempt to get your comment across you made a comment saying that this sort of think is acceptable in the NZ hinterlands, but not in the rest of the world where they are actually in the 21st century. That in itself is insulting the people of that area for being backwards, and behind the times, and IMO as racist as saying someone is a pom (taff, jock, or any other banter-esque term). It is all down to your perspective, and which side of the fence your sat.

it is patently not racist to suggest that certain parts of a country behave in a manner which would not be acceptable in most of the rest of the developed world. key points are i) i refer only to part of NZ, ii) suggesting they are out-of-date in their attitudes in no way is racist.

you cant be racist when talking about people of the same race incidentally. that would be nationalist, xenophobic or just rude. now i dont know if the lady mentioned in the article used the racist word because she felt she was being abused by people who were not of her "race". Either way i think she shouldnt have used it as it reveals some of her own potential fears or biases. I certainly didnt use that word. Fact is there is clearly an issue at AB matches as subsequent posts have shown. i dont think its about race, i think its about acceptable behaviour. but its there.

by No9 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 2:54 pm

Is this really news... I mean Whinging ENGLISH fans... surely that isn't real news...

Run

by ME-109 Tue 10 Jun 2014, 3:00 pm

Its a long way from the time AB supporters were renowned for being ultra boring and as liable to get as animated as a bear in hibernation and the only thing that might get them excited was finding a place that sold steinlager so they could have a really wild night and drink two of them....

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 3:04 pm

Quins - I think you get the point I was trying to make (but obviously I didn't make it too well), your comment could quite easily have been deemed offensive. Racist is one of those words that gets misused (as it was by me, oops), people get race/creed/nationality/skin colour all mixed up when it comes to moaning about each other.

Anyway, slight detour, talking about unacceptable language and the press, us welsh have it sorted out. The following is from an article published on WalesOnline (the western mail to all accounts), which is still up on there site now (and not in the *** form it is quoted here

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/richard-hibbard-column-adam-named-7237180 wrote:As for those pretty boys in the backs I rather keep my views on those p***ies to myself!

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