New Zealand vs England 2nd Test 13th July Eden Park

ALL BLACKS: Stephen Perofeta, Sevu Reece, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Mark Tele'a, Damian McKenzie, Finlay Christie, Ardie Savea, Dalton Papali'i, Samipeni Finau, Patrick Tuipulotu, Scott Barrett (c), Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Ethan de Groot. Reserves: Asafo Aumua, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Fletcher Newell, Tupou Vaa'i, Luke Jacobson, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Beauden Barrett.


ENGLAND: Furbank; Feyi-Waboso, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman; Smith, Mitchell; Baxter, George (capt), Cole, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl. Replacements: Dan, Rodd, Stuart, Coles, Curry, B Spencer, F Smith, Sleightholme.



Ben Youngs and George Ford discuss what England might need to do

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Cy3lvUG8nm2RjFy8B8GV3?si=2bbd006721554b56

Both players think last week's gameplan worked but England weren't ultimately accurate enough. While there'll be a few tweaks, Ford thinks it'll come down to England's self-belief that improving execution by 10% can get a win

Telea often filled-in for D-Mac during England lineouts, to let the fly-half field our kicks. Youngs would like to see Lawrence with the ball in hand, heading for Telea.

Problem is NZ will likely improve as well.
If England can shore up scrum and cut out pens conceded then in with a shout but going to be very tough.
NZ out of any any team take their chances, England often don't so that has to change as well for them to win.

Finlay Christie starts at scrum half, and Cortez Ratima comes onto the bench

ALL BLACKS: Stephen Perofeta, Sevu Reece, Rieko Ioane, Jordie Barrett, Mark Tele'a, Damian McKenzie, Finlay Christie, Ardie Savea, Dalton Papali'i, Samipeni Finau, Patrick Tuipulotu, Scott Barrett (c), Tyrel Lomax, Codie Taylor, Ethan de Groot. Reserves: Asafo Aumua, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Fletcher Newell, Tupou Vaa'i, Luke Jacobson, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Beauden Barrett.

England unchanged, except for Baxter starting in place of Marler, and Rodd coming onto the bench.

https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1811236303872372773

England: Furbank; Feyi-Waboso, Slade, Lawrence, Freeman; Smith, Mitchell; Baxter, George (capt), Cole, Itoje, Martin, Cunningham-South, Underhill, Earl.

Replacements: Dan, Rodd, Stuart, Coles, Curry, B Spencer, F Smith, Sleightholme.

mountain man wrote:Problem is NZ will likely improve as well.
If England can shore up scrum and cut out pens conceded then in with a shout but going to be very tough.
NZ out of any any team take their chances, England often don't so that has to change as well for them to win.

I'd imagine the England coaches will have had words with the match officials over de Groots scrumming. Not a lot of it was legal which he got away with unless the ref was on his side.

Cole comes in to start alongside Baxter, presumably to try and keep de Groot honest.

I'm pleased Borthwick has backed Freeman. he had a quiet game on Saturday, by his standards, and it might have been tempting to try Roebuck or Steward, who are both good in the air.

Rugby Fan wrote:I'm pleased Borthwick has backed Freeman. he had a quiet game on Saturday, by his standards, and it might have been tempting to try Roebuck or Steward, who are both good in the air.

Freeman was quietly effective. Seemed to make a lot of tackles, was our only aerial threat and made an important half break in the build up to our second try. Steward on the wing doesn't suit this game I don't think, the ABs backline is too fast.

Steward in for Sleightholme on the bench might have been prudent. The ABs kicked the leather off the ball in the second half last week. Furbank ended up taking a couple of big shots, only had to compete for the ball once which he both lost and got roughed up. Furbank was such a massive threat I'd be surprised if the ABs aren't targeting him with some rough treatment from the off this weekend.

I'm a big fan of Freddie Steward but in attack Sleightholme offers more I think so happy he's there. Personally I'd have started him.
I'd have liked Freeman at 13 with Sleightholme on wing but that unlikely especially in such a massive match.

NZ are going to score tries, no question about that so it's whether England can score enough as well and I think Sleightholme gives us more chance of that than Steward.

I was thinking it's not often two teams go head to head with minimal changes but it seems Ireland and New Zealand didn't change too much for their second meeting in 2022.

mountain man wrote:I'm a big fan of Freddie Steward but in attack Sleightholme offers more I think so happy he's there. Personally I'd have started him.
I'd have liked Freeman at 13 with Sleightholme on wing but that unlikely especially in such a massive match.

NZ are going to score tries, no question about that so it's whether England can score enough as well and I think Sleightholme gives us more chance of that than Steward.

Sleightholme is a cracking finisher but I'm not sure he's enough of a point of difference for Borthwick to sub IFW for him unless IFW is injured. Freeman is the kick chase option in the back three and the best all rounder, he's unlikely to get subbed and whilst Slade leads the defence, unlikely to slot in at 13 (particularly when not playing there regularly for Saints).

None of the backs subs really offer a unique game changing option. Steward offers us a different tactical option, not a game changing one but one we might need. I was surprised how little the ABs used Jordie Barrett on the kick chase at the weekend, I doubt they'll overlook the option again.

If anything there was a possible need for a 6-2 split this weekend with another physical option on the bench for the forwards.

Well the option I'd like is Slade off, Freeman to 13 and Sleightholme on wing. That I think would be a good backline with IFW on other wing.
This after say 50 mins depending on how match going.

mountain man wrote:Well the option I'd like is Slade off, Freeman to 13 and Sleightholme on wing. That I think would be a good backline with IFW on other wing.
This after say 50 mins depending on how match going.

Problem is that in the Felix Jones defence the 13 has to commit hard and shoot out the line. Timing of and leading the line speed of is way harder than it sounds. Get it wrong and you've left the team wide open. Offensively Freeman at 13 would work very well but I'd not want to mess with the lynch pin of the backline defence for a test against the ABs in NZ. For the AIs we do need to bring through some other 13 options and give them experience in the system, Freeman could the 13 but now's not the time.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mountain man wrote:Well the option I'd like is Slade off, Freeman to 13 and Sleightholme on wing. That I think would be a good backline with IFW on other wing.
This after say 50 mins depending on how match going.

Problem is that in the Felix Jones defence the 13 has to commit hard and shoot out the line. Timing of and leading the line speed of is way harder than it sounds. Get it wrong and you've left the team wide open. Offensively Freeman at 13 would work very well but I'd not want to mess with the lynch pin of the backline defence for a test against the ABs in NZ. For the AIs we do need to bring through some other 13 options and give them experience in the system, Freeman could the 13 but now's not the time.

Certainly get the point. But Freeman is already the injury cover for 13 if Slade goes off or if Lawrence goes off requiring Slade to move inside to 12. If he has to move to 13 then Sleights is on the pitch.

Steward replaces the injured Furbank

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mountain man wrote:Well the option I'd like is Slade off, Freeman to 13 and Sleightholme on wing. That I think would be a good backline with IFW on other wing.
This after say 50 mins depending on how match going.

Problem is that in the Felix Jones defence the 13 has to commit hard and shoot out the line. Timing of and leading the line speed of is way harder than it sounds. Get it wrong and you've left the team wide open. Offensively Freeman at 13 would work very well but I'd not want to mess with the lynch pin of the backline defence for a test against the ABs in NZ. For the AIs we do need to bring through some other 13 options and give them experience in the system, Freeman could the 13 but now's not the time.

Certainly get the point.  But Freeman is already the injury cover for 13 if Slade goes off or if Lawrence goes off requiring Slade to move inside to 12.  If he has to move to 13 then Sleights is on the pitch.  

True but there's players you'll only change in an emergency and players you are looking for impact. Slade and Lawrence will play the whole match bar injury. Best shown last weekend where Slade was poor in attack and yet left on to play the whole game.

England could also shunt Freeman in at 12 and get him to run the Lawrence lines were Lawrence to go off as that would require less realignment. Freeman also much better equipped to deal with the Lawrence role than Slade.

Geordie wrote:Steward replaces the injured Furbank

That's a blow. Furbank was very good last weekend. Steward will help defuse the kicking game the ABs went to in the second half last week but he's going to really have to pull his socks up if he's going to bring the required level of counter attack from 15. Sure he can run it back but he's going to have to look for space and to link far more than he's done previously. Big test for him.

It is a blow, not least for Furbank himself. Still, it's a good chance to see if Steward has developed his game, or if others in the backline can step up to provide more attacking threats.

That's a shame as Furbank been really good. Well we were only discussing Furbank v Steward yesterday and here we are. However, Steward is a really good player and I suspect he'll have a point to prove as well so extra incentive.

i think this will be a very good opportunity for Borthwick actually to see how Steward integrates in the system against one of the best. Theres others coming through ( Carpenter etc) who "may" suit the system better...so its a big game for Steward and an fact gathering for Borthwick

mountain man wrote:...I suspect he'll have a point to prove as well so extra incentive.

Hadn't realized how little Steward has played. No England appearances since the 2nd round of the Six Nations, and no rugby at all since turning out for Leicester on May 19th.

Rugby Fan wrote:

mountain man wrote:...I suspect he'll have a point to prove as well so extra incentive.

Hadn't realized how little Steward has played. No England appearances since the 2nd round of the Six Nations, and no rugby at all since turning out for Leicester on May 19th.

I'm worried that in the second half Beauden will look to draw him out of position and then kick to the other side for the wings to chase. The England wings will need to be alert to the possibility and ready to cover. It's possible that we'll see Smith drop to full back if Steward gets caught flat footed.

The other side of it is that suddenly we have a player who can now attack out wide who is 17 stone with good off loading capabilities and a brick wall under the high ball. So we lose some aspects gain in others.

Not to mention the Smith kick pass to the wing...when you have a 6'5 high ball specialist! The kiwi wingers will have to be on red alert for that one.

Borthwick must have faith or he could have picked a number of other young Prem 15s who are really starring at the moment.

Steward will be fine.  It's not like we are picking someone who has not done well for England.  He won't be working that much as second receiver, but then wtf is Slade doing in the squad?  

I hope the ABs decide to kick deep most of the game.  Freeman and Steward are a lot more than solid back there and if they get a little room to run, good stuff will happen.  Playing off each other, perhaps a bit more.  And maybe, just maybe, Steward can return the favour to the ABs who kept knocking Furbank around.  

This game is still, in my opinion, about the scrum and the breakdown.

Is Slade in there specifically as a defensive leader these days?

Poorfour wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

mountain man wrote:...I suspect he'll have a point to prove as well so extra incentive.

Hadn't realized how little Steward has played. No England appearances since the 2nd round of the Six Nations, and no rugby at all since turning out for Leicester on May 19th.

I'm worried that in the second half Beauden will look to draw him out of position and then kick to the other side for the wings to chase. The England wings will need to be alert to the possibility and ready to cover. It's possible that we'll see Smith drop to full back if Steward gets caught flat footed.

England always defend with flyhalf and fullback in the back field these days. Have done for a while. Allows the wings to stay up high and come flying in to wreak havoc on the blitz.

Robertson said after the first test that the ABs intended to use the crossfield kick a lot more than they did. They couldn't create the space to do so because of the English line speed.

In theory England should be well covered as long as Steward and Smith communicate well. There was a couple of times last weekend when the communication broke down between Furbank and Smith (Reece's try and then Furbank's rushed clearance). Hopefully something we've worked on a bit this week.

Absolutely mad start to the game!

Very different game from last week with both sides turning attack up to 10. Great game for the neutral!

Great stuff England, think they will win. Borthwick has done a great job turning this side around.

Funny game in the set piece - NZ are dominant in the scrum but NZ lineouts may as well be England ones given how many steals they've had.

How did ABs not score!!

Telea just threw the ball forward twice in that attack...

Itoje lucky there at the lineout, got him before hi the floor. Probably going to give a penalty away at the resulting scrum anyway though...

Lawrence really does have bricks for hands...

Strange choice from ABs going for 3 instead of scrum on 5m. They've already got the ref thinking they have the stronger scrum, and could have eaked more penalties and a yellow out of it.

Instead they get 3 points but instantly relieved pressure on England.

ABs showing a real lack of a ruthless streak under Robertson so far. SA would have gone for the scrum!

Key moment of the half there with England spending nearly 10 minutes inside the ABs half but coming away with nothing.

ABs lineout is an absolute mess!

England again with the attacking grubber that doesn't lead to anything! Keep the ball, build pressure

What a take from Freeman!

England with a try right at HT! Massively changes the complexion of the game.

RDW wrote:England with a try right at HT! Massively changes the complexion  of the game.

It will be interesting to see how the ABs responds to the threat of Smith's cross field kicks. Even with two wide defenders they have led to two tries because of how precise he is (and how good his wings are). How do they stop that?

Do they need to defend wider and risk creating space infield? Or do they just have to accept that it's going to happen and stick to their guns?

I think ABs just need to concentrate on retaining possession first and foremost. Lineout has been a shambles. England have also pretty much scored straight away after any AB score, instead of gathering restarts and reliving pressure.

At international level morre so than ever it's about nailing the basics and the ABs just aren't doing that.

You know what, I reckon England will do this

Curry takes out Dan… not intentional but he’s mostly having a negative impact on the game.

Pleased to see Cole on and CCS staying on instead of Underhill.

Now that George has had a word with the ref the scrum has stabilised a bit, and Baxter is quietly having a decent game. Eking out the yards, hitting a lot of rucks and playing scrum half when Mitchell isn’t available..

All Blacks are starting to look a little rattled, we score here and things could get very interesting...

Then again, I've lost count of the games against the All Blacks where I've been drawn in only to be gut punched in the last quarter.

RDW wrote:You know what, I reckon England will do this

Me too100%

Cortez Ratima is named after a shoe, the Nike Cortez

Itoje man of the match so far, what a total nuisance

Every kick to touch is a 50/22 for england the way Itoje is playing

NZ turn the tables. Great play.

England need to regroup and find the intensity again.