CONFIRMED: England team to face Wales

Confirmed on RFU website:

Armitage - Irish
Banahan - Bath
Tuilagi - Leicester
Flutey - Wasps
Cueto - Sale
Wilkinson - Toulon
Care - Quins

Corbisiero - Irish
Hartley - Saints
Stevens - Saracens
Shaw - Wasps
Palmer - Stade
Croft - Leicester
Moody - Bath
Haskell - Ricoh Black Rams

Mears - Bath
Wilson - Bath
Botha - Saracens
Wood - Saints
Wigglesworth - Saracens
Hodgson - Saracens
Sharples - Gloucester


I like it. Nice to see they're ensuring we've got some back up for Easter. If flutey has regained some form in the training camp then the midfield could be really good. Sharples is on the bench so will be good to see if he comes on.

Hmm not sure I like Stevens at TH would prefer him at LH. Here's better in the scrum there and brings a lot more round the park than both Corbs and Sheridan. Where as PDJ and Wilson would give better scrummaging back ups to Cole with PDJ a real technician at the scrum and Wilson a more mobile option. Hope Deacon gets a run out as well, needs it after his injury lay off.

I hope that isn't actually the team. I was optimistic of victory after seeing the rumoured Welsh side but now I am not so sure.

Disappointed not to see either Botha or Lawes starting instead of a 37 year old.

Frontrow looks interesting.

Backline looks shaky with the ill disciplined trio getting the nod. I do really fear that backline could implode spectacularly.

Backrow looks like the wrong combination in my opinion.

The team is the same as reported in the Telegraph today.

Interesting to see how Care / Wilkinson goes as I recall that was a bit stodgy previously when they started.

Can Flutey & Armitage regain their form? I hope so otherwise it could be an embarrassing day at Twickenham.

Need to see who is on the bench besides Sharples

Well maybe they're giving Shaw one last go to show he can still hack it at test match level. Id be surprised if he plays much more than 50 minutes, but he probably deserves the chance. Sure Lawes will get a start next week.

G2 wrote:

Interesting to see how Care / Wilkinson goes as I recall that was a bit stodgy previously when they started.

It wasn't great last year, but Care wasn't in good form at all for club or country. He ended this season really well.

That seems about right apart from Haskell over Easter, that seems one change too many to me.

ESPN were suggesting that Botha would start, otherwise its got the other guys in they said.

Largely a second choices side. Makes sense to get Stevens Armitage Moody and Cueto some gametime.

The surpise for me is Banahan on the wing, Id thought he was in teh squad as a center. I would have expected Sharples to get a go.

Cant work out why Shaw is there......experienced...but not the player he was. And cant last a full test now.

Others well....Flutey and Armitage are given a chance to show their form...rightly so.
Johnny has been revitalised in france so we need to see that we have two strong 10's
The SH battle is wide open......

Flutey and Tuilagi could be quite a pair if they let rip....

And i see Haskell is possibly seen as Easters repalcement....we'll see in this game if he has the brains to do it.

Disappointed not to see either Botha or Lawes starting instead of a 37 year old.

Shaw's age doesn't matter a drop to me. However, he is undoubtabley strongest in the tight five grunt work. Mauls from line outs, big rucks, try line defence etc. The rumoured Welsh team looks quite quick and the young scrummy will move it and run it. They won't be mauling and won't be doing a lot of intensive tight ball carrying. Not sure Shaw is the right tactical fit. Ditto Botha.

Think that front row might struggle at the scrum if the Welsh do play Jenkins, Bennet, Mitchell as is rumoured. Would have preferred to see Stevens, Hartley, PDJ.

Obviously an experimental side. Care, Wilkinson and Flutey didn't look great next to each other in the 2010 Six Nations, so hopefully they've worked hard on their relationship. Excited about Tuilagi getting a shot, and it will be interesting to see the Wales side this team is up against.

tomathy wrote:Well maybe they're giving Shaw one last go to show he can still hack it at test match level. Id be surprised if he plays much more than 50 minutes, but he probably deserves the chance. Sure Lawes will get a start next week.

Not sure why he'd be playing other than for sentiments sake. We have younger and (sorry to say it) better options who can last a full match if required. If he is playing I'm assuming it is because Lawes hasn't quite got over his knock. If we are bound and determined to use him, I'd rather have a look at Botha to be honest.

Why Shaw? Could it be that Lawes injury is still an issue? Not too keen on that back three. Just got so used to seeing Foden and Ashton start!

It's the wrong balance in my opinion.

I would have personally played

1.Stevens
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Croft
7.Wood
8.Easter (c)
9.Care
10.Wilkinson
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Corbisierio
17.Mears
18.Botha
19.Robshaw
20.Wigglesworth
21.Hodgson
22.Banahan

If nothing else, it's going to be 'interesting'.

Lots to think about.

Cumbrian wrote:

tomathy wrote:Well maybe they're giving Shaw one last go to show he can still hack it at test match level. Id be surprised if he plays much more than 50 minutes, but he probably deserves the chance. Sure Lawes will get a start next week.

Not sure why he'd be playing other than for sentiments sake. We have younger and (sorry to say it) better options who can last a full match if required. If he is playing I'm assuming it is because Lawes hasn't quite got over his knock. If we are bound and determined to use him, I'd rather have a look at Botha to be honest.

I don't think he's saying that it is sentiment, I think he's saying that Johnson is challenging Shaw to see how he goes. He's going to start the test, and Johnson can see how long he'll last at full intensity. Then, if he doesn't come through well enough, Botha can get a go (either of the bench or in the next test) and leapfrog Shaw in the pecking order.

Why does MJ have to frustate me every single time he picks an England side?!

Can't he pick a side I am happy with just once!?

By the way this of course if this side is actually the genuine one.

robbo277 wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

tomathy wrote:Well maybe they're giving Shaw one last go to show he can still hack it at test match level. Id be surprised if he plays much more than 50 minutes, but he probably deserves the chance. Sure Lawes will get a start next week.

Not sure why he'd be playing other than for sentiments sake. We have younger and (sorry to say it) better options who can last a full match if required. If he is playing I'm assuming it is because Lawes hasn't quite got over his knock. If we are bound and determined to use him, I'd rather have a look at Botha to be honest.

I don't think he's saying that it is sentiment, I think he's saying that Johnson is challenging Shaw to see how he goes. He's going to start the test, and Johnson can see how long he'll last at full intensity. Then, if he doesn't come through well enough, Botha can get a go (either of the bench or in the next test) and leapfrog Shaw in the pecking order.

It wasn't an attack, more a musing. I just can't see why Shaw is still in there. He is still looking just about okay at Premiership level, but I really question his ability to last with the pace at international level. I can't help but feel he is a wasted spot. If he makes the plane and another lock gets injured, would you be comfortable for Shaw to pick up the slack? Personally I'm not sure he could last in a tournament setting, the spirit is willing, but his body is winding down.

Stupid question but who are the wings ?

Cumbrian I have to say I absolutely agree about Shaw.
Munkian not sure what you mean?

Admittedly Cueto and Banahan aren't the quickest guys in the world but still...

There was a lot of snigger and doubts yesterday at the 'proposed' team Gatland was going to put out with some predicting a long afternoon for Wales.

If this is the England side are the same guys now as confident. When the 'proposed' Wales side was announced I said that 9 of the team were or could be considered 1st choice.

Out of interest how many of this 'proposed' side would be considered 1st choice by English fans.

The thing is, Shaw played well in some of the big games last season, thinking mainly about when Wasps beat Toulouse at home. I think if we take Shaw it has to be with 3 other dedicated locks, and I would look at taking the extra back-rower personally, but I think Shaw has earned his chance and hopefully he can show most of us wrong.

Any ideas what the bench will be? I think it will be the players even further on the fringes so:

Mears
Doran-Jones
Botha
Robshaw
Simpson
Hodgson
Sharples

Mears and Doran-Jones to get a good 25/30 minutes each, Botha to come on for Shaw as and when he starts flagging, Robshaw, Simpson and Hodgson to get 20 or so and Sharples to come on and push Banahan into the centre at some point to see how he goes there.

To the answer your question bedfordwelsh no I am not as confident. Nowhere near. I thought for once MJ might make logical decisions on team selection but no!

The positives are he got rid of Waldrom and Worsley. Payne and Fourie aren't starting thank goodness! That's about it.

3 would be considered first choice - Hartley,Palmer and Cueto.

Not too confident at all Bedford. Could be a long afternoon for all of us!

I like your team Beshocked though I'd change almost the entirity of the bench. Wilson or PDJ should go as the back up TH and so would need a sub appearence apiece, Mears is fine, Deacon needs game time if he's to regain match fitness ditto Moody so I'd have them both in there. Simpson over Wigglesworth as well know what Wiggy brings to the table but the testing of Simpson would be more important. The two other backs are fine.

A distinct lack of kicking ability in the back three though, a savvy fly half with a good rush defence could expose that.

bedfordwelsh wrote:There was a lot of snigger and doubts yesterday at the 'proposed' team Gatland was going to put out with some predicting a long afternoon for Wales.

If this is the England side are the same guys now as confident. When the 'proposed' Wales side was announced I said that 9 of the team were or could be considered 1st choice.

Out of interest how many of this 'proposed' side would be considered 1st choice by English fans.

I don't know who was laughing at the proposed Welsh side, but I'd say around 7 of these players are first choice (Hartley, Palmer, Croft, Moody, Flutey, Cueto and Care - as Youngs is injured.) In addition, Corbisiero and Haskell started the majority of our 6 Nations games and obviously we have Wilkinson in there who's been there and done it before.

Just two points:

https://www.606v2.com/t10773-an-exraordinarily-high-aggregate-score-in-the-evw-match-at-twickenham

and

https://www.606v2.com/t10034-treating-the-summer-internationals-as-real-test-matches

beshocked wrote:Why does MJ have to frustate me every single time he picks an England side?!

Can't he pick a side I am happy with just once!?

He picked a side I was happy with once.

It went very badly.

Bedfordwelsh.

I would think that at the moment MJ considers hartley, palmer, croft, moody and cueto first choice. By Saturday evening I reckon care, wilkinson, flutey, tuilagi and Banahan could at least make MJ question that if they play well, whereas it's unlikely that guys like Stevens, Haskell and shaw will knock cole, Easter and Lawes/Deacon out of their spot.

Remembering that this is the first warm-up so really a chance for the second string to prove themselves, I think this is a decent side with some real positives.

The backs look about right for a warm-up, and the Flutey/Tuilagi combination could very well end up being the best one if it clicks. Care and Wilkinson are clearly the 2nd choice pair, so it makes sense to see them together, and Armitage is in need of a chance to show his abilities to the many doubters. Cueto and Banahan are both likely to travel and in my view are fighting for the same wing slot, so a good chance to see them play for that on the pitch together.

The forwards are a little less convincing, and I agree that Stevens at tighthead is a slightly odd choice. I'd have him at 1 with Wilson or PD-J at 3. I rate Corbs, but I think Stevens has the edge as back-up to Sheridan.

Despite what people say on here, Shaw needs the chance to prove he can still influence games at this level, and this is the perfect match to try him. If he fades, then MJ can make his lock selection on that basis. Palmer and Croft make sense, not as back-up players but as a chance for them to hone their line-out combination. Chance for Moody to prove his fitness, and Haskell, as the likely back-up to Easter, needs to show he's ironed out some of his flaws as an 8 that we've seen previously, namely a lack of control at the base.

The prop selection aside, I think this is a good pick (especially the centres), and I'm sure you'll see a more likely 1st XV in the following warm-up fixtures.

If the rumoured starting XVs are true, then England should edge it I would think.

beshocked wrote:It's the wrong balance in my opinion.

I would have personally played

1.Stevens
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Lawes
5.Palmer
6.Croft
7.Wood
8.Easter (c)
9.Care
10.Wilkinson
11.Sharples
12.Hape
13.Tuilagi
14.Ashton
15.Foden

16.Corbisierio
17.Mears
18.Botha
19.Robshaw
20.Wigglesworth
21.Hodgson
22.Banahan

Beshocked

Your team is obviously stronger, but it's all about what you are trying to acheive. You have chosen to give much of your first choice 15 a game, with Sharples and Tuilagi given a run in the strongest team to see if they can hack it.

However, Martin Johnson has probably picked his team with a different objective in mind. He's picked a lot of the fringe players, Haskell out of position etc in with a few first choice players and is going to see who sticks their hand up. I think we can only complain too much after the last match (so and so didn't get enough of a shot etc), but Johnson has only 2 matches before the World Cup squad deadline date, so he wants to look at a lot of his options now, so he has a better idea of who he wants to take and who he's going to leave behind.

beshocked wrote:Cumbrian I have to say I absolutely agree about Shaw.
Munkian not sure what you mean?

Admittedly Cueto and Banahan aren't the quickest guys in the world but still...

I just meant, out of that sqaud, who will be on the wing ? I'm not too au fait with English players, especially wingers.

robbo277 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:There was a lot of snigger and doubts yesterday at the 'proposed' team Gatland was going to put out with some predicting a long afternoon for Wales.

If this is the England side are the same guys now as confident. When the 'proposed' Wales side was announced I said that 9 of the team were or could be considered 1st choice.

Out of interest how many of this 'proposed' side would be considered 1st choice by English fans.

I don't know who was laughing at the proposed Welsh side, but I'd say around 7 of these players are first choice (Hartley, Palmer, Croft, Moody, Flutey, Cueto and Care - as Youngs is injured.) In addition, Corbisiero and Haskell started the majority of our 6 Nations games and obviously we have Wilkinson in there who's been there and done it before.

Nobody was, but when have they ever missed an opportunity to complain about a slight, imagined or not?

I think there are players in the squad that I would be happy to have a starters even, if they are widely considered second choice. At fullback, I'll generally have Foden penciled in every time, but Armitage back to his best would be a worthy starter too.

Cueto and Bananaman on the wings. Or might we see at some point Bananaman come into the centre and Tuilagi go onto the wing?

Probably not, i just read in the Telegraph that he's seen as a centre who can play wing.

Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Sharples and Monye are the options in the reduced training squad. I'd say Ashton, Banahan and Cueto will probably go with Armitage and Foden as full-backs.

Sam I included Wigglesworth because he works well with Hodgson. If you were to bring on replacements I would bring them both on at the same time.

It's fair enough Sam. You want to include the Leicester guys. I want to include the Sarries guys.

In my opinion a lot of rugby is about balance and units working together.

Youngs and Flood are a pairing. Care and Wilkinson are a pairing (on international stage anyway).

Wigglesworth and Hodgson are a pairing. Simpson doesn't really fit in.

Oops how could I forget - Croft is first choice. That makes 4 first choice.


Robbo actually my team would give Stevens a run out. Haven't Lawes and Croft been injured so need a run out.

Try out a new backrow combo.

Would give two players a run out in the backline without completely messing up the side.

It's a strong side with trying out new players in mind.

The problem is that the fringe players MJ picked were poor choices in the first place to get round that you need to pick most of the first team.

I am beginning to dislike MJ more and more.

Agree Cumbrian, only Tuilagi out of all that lot are untested at International level. Remove with him Corbisiero, Haskell at 8 and possibly Banahan, and all those players have, at one point, been first choice in their position, although even Banahan got 5 consecutive starts at wing in 2009.

Do you see this English side scoring many tries without Ashton ?

beshocked

I didn't want to be presumptuous and suggest what you felt the first choice team should be. Compared to the team you proposed for this game, what changes would you make were we playing Argentina in the first World Cup game this Saturday?

That looks a pretty strong team.

Certainly very testing compared to some of the more experimental fringe player orientated leaks that are coming out of the Welsh camp.

[quote="robbo277"]

bedfordwelsh wrote:There was a lot of snigger and doubts yesterday at the 'proposed' team Gatland was going to put out with some predicting a long afternoon for Wales.

To be fair he could have named his first choice side and we still would have sniggered at it.

beshocked wrote:Sam I included Wigglesworth because he works well with Hodgson.

Perfectly willing to be corrected on this, but I can't think of when they've ever played together before

It's fair enough Sam. You want to include the Leicester guys. I want to include the Sarries guys

Actually I wanted to give those short of game time a chance to gain some valuable minutes on the pitch. Deacon hasn't played since limping off against Leinster and Moody has had a season disrupted by injury. No point taking them off to the RWC only to break down within minutes of kick off in the first game.

Wigglesworth and Hodgson are a pairing

Fair enough I can see that being an advantage they both worked well together at Sale.

tomathy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam I included Wigglesworth because he works well with Hodgson.

Perfectly willing to be corrected on this, but I can't think of when they've ever played together before

As Sam said, at Sale. But I think beshocked just wants Johnson to re-form their half-back partnership so they are more familiar when they get back to Sarries...

Not looking to stir here (and don't shoot the messenger!) but I've read that Johnson is only going to take two flyhalves and use Flutey as emergency cover. Hodgson is the one who is going to miss out if that is true.

robbo277 wrote:

tomathy wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam I included Wigglesworth because he works well with Hodgson.

Perfectly willing to be corrected on this, but I can't think of when they've ever played together before

As Sam said, at Sale. But I think beshocked just wants Johnson to re-form their half-back partnership so they are more familiar when they get back to Sarries...

Can't believe I forgot they played together there.

I'm going to the match Saturday and I would rather watch two second string sides play than a A side v B side one sided contest like we had in 2007.

Cumbrian wrote:Not looking to stir here (and don't shoot the messenger!) but I've read that Johnson is only going to take two flyhalves and use Flutey as emergency cover. Hodgson is the one who is going to miss out if that is true.

That's probably the way I'd go as well. If there is a serious injury, we can call Hodgson back up. In which case, a Simpson-Flutey Wasps partnership becomes a more prominent option.

Cymroglan

I went to the match in 2007, it wasn't enjoyable watching. The novelty of England running in try after try wore off pretty quickly.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Banahan at centre at some point in the game.

Overall I like the look of that team for the first game. If we're serious about this world cup then we need to have 30 players who are match fit, ready, and all are pushing for a place. In this first warm up I therefore expected a more experimental side like the one he has selected.

Armitage - no point playing Foden, we know what he can do and he can get some game time in the next few weeks
Banahan - Interesting that sharples isn't starting, but I'd expect to see Sharples later, maybe with Banahan moving to one of the centre positions or simply coming off.
Tuilagi - Lets see what he can do, had a great season in the Jeff, can he cut it at England level?
Flutey - If he's found some form he gets on the plane. If not then this could be his last England game this year.
Cueto - Perhaps Johnson wanted some experience in the back 3? Again Sharples could've started
Wilkinson - It's Jonny Wilkinson. We know what he can do but it's good to play him alongside Care as they are likely to be the 2nd choice duo
Care - Youngs looked tired and out of touch. Hopefully after a rest and a knee op he will be better, but lets have a look at Care
Corbisiero - Him or Sheridan - Both could do with game time for different reasons, Corbisiero to push for first choice, Sheridan for match fitness and to show he can give performances like the 07 SF
Hartley - The back ups are old stagers that we know what they can do.
Stevens - Is he back to his old self (on the pitch not off!)
Shaw - Age is a number. If he plays his best he can be outstanding. This lets us see if the old dog has one more last hurrah
Palmer - Sits well with a Shaw or Deacon alongside him. Deacon and Shaw would be rubbish together and Lawes has a knock
Croft - A first choicer for me, I hope he proves it in this game. Adds the about the park skills to the back row.
Moody - See the numerous Moody threads. If he plays well I'll take him as captain. If not then Wood is very good...
Haskell - We need a back up 8, lets see if this guy can do it. To me he seems a natural size and disposition for an 8, I've always thought he *could* be a better 8 than a flanker.

If this is the side then I'm not too dissappointed at all. You can't try all the new guys at once, you need some old heads. I see a good balance whilst helping MJ decide if many of the players get on the plane or not.

As an outsider, I've always felt England underestimated Shaw.

Well there are things i'm excited about:

Haskell at 8- i've been thinking about for a while and it could be great. As much as we go on about brains at 8 i think Easter proves you need more then that and i'd say it's easier to have all the pace/power and aggresion and learn the ropes then the other way round. Lets hope he has.

Flutey & Tuilagi- The more i see this the better it could be, if Flutey plays like we know he can he will be brilliant for Tuilagi.

The bad things:
The back three- they seem to offer very little threat, especially in terms of pace and i can see the Welsh happily targetting Tuilagi knowing they can cover the outside easily.
9-13 combo- Possibly too much change for one game, and i worry that Flood may have been better inside Flutey, would like to have seen Care/Flood.
Locks- The way England used their locks at their peak was as extra backrows.centres. I can't see that happening this time. If we try to play a running game i can see Shaw sufferring a heart attack by about the 30 minute mark. Botha or Lawes would have been preferable.