CONFIRMED: England team to face Wales

First topic message reminder :

Confirmed on RFU website:

Armitage - Irish
Banahan - Bath
Tuilagi - Leicester
Flutey - Wasps
Cueto - Sale
Wilkinson - Toulon
Care - Quins

Corbisiero - Irish
Hartley - Saints
Stevens - Saracens
Shaw - Wasps
Palmer - Stade
Croft - Leicester
Moody - Bath
Haskell - Ricoh Black Rams

Mears - Bath
Wilson - Bath
Botha - Saracens
Wood - Saints
Wigglesworth - Saracens
Hodgson - Saracens
Sharples - Gloucester


I like it. Nice to see they're ensuring we've got some back up for Easter. If flutey has regained some form in the training camp then the midfield could be really good. Sharples is on the bench so will be good to see if he comes on.

beshocked wrote:Sam are you talking about the 2011 Flutey or 2009 Flutey?

Any Quins going to back me up about George Lowe?

I am sure that on form Armitage and Flutey are as good as Muliana and Nonu but they haven't shown they are in form.

Also are you talking about 2009 Armitage or 2011 Armitage?

They haven't shown they are on form but they have shown they can cut it at the top when they are. MJ clearly thinks he has more chance of helping them find form than he does of turning players with little to no international experience into international players in two games (assuming the full strength team is fielded against Ireland). Players can look very good in the Jeff and then never make it at international level - it's a bigger step than it may seem.

Welsh team is strong defensivley so it will be interesting to see how creative the England centres will be. Is Tuilagi any good at passing the ball to the wingers or does he crash in like the rest of his clan?

I would swap Simpson for Wigglesworth on the bench. That is all. I like what Johnson has done.

However I imagine those who don't run out this week may get a go next weekend and those that don't get selected at all are either injured or not going to be considered.

screamingaddabs wrote:

beshocked wrote:Sam are you talking about the 2011 Flutey or 2009 Flutey?

Any Quins going to back me up about George Lowe?

I am sure that on form Armitage and Flutey are as good as Muliana and Nonu but they haven't shown they are in form.

Also are you talking about 2009 Armitage or 2011 Armitage?

They haven't shown they are on form but they have shown they can cut it at the top when they are. MJ clearly thinks he has more chance of helping them find form than he does of turning players with little to no international experience into international players in two games (assuming the full strength team is fielded against Ireland). Players can look very good in the Jeff and then never make it at international level - it's a bigger step than it may seem.

+1, but Beshocked already knows my feelings on this matter!

Deadfred

His passing isn't great, but he's not a crash-ball merchant. He has a step on him and can give it some gas as well if you show him the outside. Flutey should be able to miss him and hit Banahan, and Cueto is also better at coming off his wing and taking the ball off 10 or 12.

beshocked wrote:

You would be throwing your money away. You really think 4 of the members of the best defence in the AP will have rubbish defence? The Quins defence was pretty good too.

I wouldn't see anyone getting past Barritt or Lowe. Farrell is one of the best defensive fly halves in the AP. JSD and Strettle are two of the best wingers in the AP.

But waaay off being two of the best defensive wingers in the AP. Of course the saracens guys are good defenders (not sold on strettle in that respect at all, mind), but internationals are a different thing entirely. I really think the lineup you list would just get completely outmuscled by the one playing on saturday. They're all good players, but I don't think they would really fit at international level right now. Anyway, flutey and armitage may not be in brilliant form right now, but what they've shown in the past has been a cut above anything I've seen barritt or goode do, and with 6 weeks with the international coaches working on their game they could very easily have got back to that form.

Tear them to shreds may have been the wrong choice of words.

Smash them to pieces works fits better.

beshocked wrote:Sam are you talking about the 2011 Flutey or 2009 Flutey?

Any Quins going to back me up about George Lowe?

He's really good, but I'd comfortably go for Tuilagi over him at this level right now. Lowe may get there one day, but centres under 6 foot are rare at international level.

Can't see Flutey smashing Barritt sorry just not going to happen.

Fair play if you rate the guys who got picked for England.

I personally think the side is a car crash waiting to happen. We'll see who is right and who is wrong on Saturday.

Wrong combinations,two lumps on the wing, a 37 year old in the 2nd row, two off form overrated players in the backline etc.

I personally really disappointed in the team. Maybe one day I will be happy with England's selections but not with MJ in charge.

At 6ft and 15st 2lbs, I wouldn't call Mark Cueto a lump. In fact, those are pretty much my dimensions, so leave it out!

Just seen the Welsh team - not the side most were expecting on here, much much stronger.

I have to revise my view. I think Wales will edge this. A little more dynamic across the team on the whole.

FES,

I think its a lot stronger than most expected some positions are down to injury but am still surprised not to see Henson not on bench at least.

FES it's going to be close. England have worse backs in general except for the halfbacks.

Phillips and Jones are both so slow though which means quick ball will be impossible for the Welsh.

England have a mixed pack. Some good some bad. An ill balanced backrow against a good Welsh 6 and 7 but rookie no 8.

An English 2nd row weighed down by the donkey Shaw.

Going to be close but home advantage should see England winning by 5.

From a Welsh perspective it must be good not to see Henson in the 22.

I'm worried about Saturday....i can see me being very upset on Saturday after watching England loose. To be honest we could do with kicking the ball out to touch a lot and letting Bennett mess up the Welsh line-out.
As an aside are there any Welsh people who are fans of this guy as just about everyone i have spoken to don't get why he keeps being picked?!

A good tactical kicking game could really hurt Wales. Williams and North don't have the best boots and Priestland is a rookie at this level, while if we find touch they've got Bennett throwing into the line-out. If we can put the pressure on their inexperienced backrow we could force some penalties, and with Wilkinson in the team hopefully we can convert most of them into points. And then we do have threats in the backline if we want to run it as well. There could be some great collisions as well, definitely not one too miss!

Banahan and North running at each other and Tuilangi and Roberts....alright they may nopt line up directly opposite one another on the team sheets but with the way backs interchange.....could be some big hits.
Likewise Haskell and Faletau should be a physical match-up

Can't see Flutey smashing Barritt sorry just not going to happen

You don't have to smash somebody to stop them. Nobody can run when somebody is holding their legs together. Flutey has a good tackling technique similar to Allen in that they stop the man rather than smashing them back.

I personally think the side is a car crash waiting to happen

It's not that bad, not that good either....

greenandpleasantland wrote:Banahan and North running at each other and Tuilangi and Roberts....alright they may nopt line up directly opposite one another on the team sheets but with the way backs interchange.....could be some big hits.
Likewise Haskell and Faletau should be a physical match-up

I think you'll find its Brand Haskell TM

He's rediscovered himself so now it's Brand Haskell 2.0.

munkian wrote:

greenandpleasantland wrote:Banahan and North running at each other and Tuilangi and Roberts....alright they may nopt line up directly opposite one another on the team sheets but with the way backs interchange.....could be some big hits.
Likewise Haskell and Faletau should be a physical match-up

I think you'll find its Brand Haskell TM

Ooops that's me in trouble with the copywrite lawyers
I would like to point out that there are other brands you can choose as well.

Martin Johnson could start his own out sourcing brand

I don't think Lowe is ready for internationals yet, i'd just like to see him in the Saxons. He is very good in D though, leads the Quins team at it.

I'm quite excited about the centres, they could be far better then the current pairing, and if you don't try you'll never know.

Biggest worry is Shaw and Banahan, Shaw gives away silly penalties and has been crocked early in games a few times lately. Banahan outside Manu could well leave a few gaps for the Welsh to make the most of, both of them like the big hits and neither are that experienced at national level.

Carpe Diem wrote:He's rediscovered himself so now it's Brand Haskell 2.0.

Sadly like a lot of over hyped software he crashes at the key moments, needs a patch i think.

yappysnap wrote:

Carpe Diem wrote:He's rediscovered himself so now it's Brand Haskell 2.0.

Sadly like a lot of over hyped software he crashes at the key moments, needs a patch i think.

I think it might well be like the NHS at the moment and we're going to find that the whole programme isn't going to work and that we might be better scrapping it and starting again

munkian wrote:Martin Johnson could start his own out sourcing brand

Is it called out-sourcing if you bring in team members from over-seas? I though it would be an on-shoring brand.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

munkian wrote:Martin Johnson could start his own out sourcing brand

Is it called out-sourcing if you bring in team members from over-seas? I though it would be an on-shoring brand.

Good point.....technically you could argue that he's out-sourcing the training and development costs! With the way the RFU is headed it's open to debate if there will be an English governing body left......maybe MJ is just preparing for that. No English organisation, no English players!

A good tight-five for scrummaging and mauling, Shaw aside a quite mobile pack, I think Shaw's in there for his effectiveness at the scrum, sometimes there's a tendancy to overlook the importance of the locks in assisting the front row, maybe MJ wants to make sure the two props have the right back-up.

It will be interesting to see how the midfield performs! If Flutey can release MT into a bit of space that could reap benefits, but I'm not sure about his form and I'm not a fan of him playing for England anyway. Personally I'd put Banahan in at 12 as he has a good offload game and that would also allow Sharples a shot at some good game time out wide

The half-backs are fine and the back three are fine.

I'd like to have a good look at Botha so would prefer Shaw to come off after 50 as opposed to the usual 60.

Could be a very entertaining game.

greenandpleasantland wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

munkian wrote:Martin Johnson could start his own out sourcing brand

Is it called out-sourcing if you bring in team members from over-seas? I though it would be an on-shoring brand.

Good point.....technically you could argue that he's out-sourcing the training and development costs! With the way the RFU is headed it's open to debate if there will be an English governing body left......maybe MJ is just preparing for that. No English organisation, no English players!

Yeah all the English ones play for Wales and Scotland

greenandpleasantland wrote:I'm worried about Saturday....i can see me being very upset on Saturday after watching England loose. To be honest we could do with kicking the ball out to touch a lot and letting Bennett mess up the Welsh line-out.
As an aside are there any Welsh people who are fans of this guy as just about everyone i have spoken to don't get why he keeps being picked?!

Even his Mam has put him up for adoption since Barnardos didnt want him!

What I cant understand is we have a head coach who was a hooker does he not get involved in line-out training

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

greenandpleasantland wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

munkian wrote:Martin Johnson could start his own out sourcing brand

Is it called out-sourcing if you bring in team members from over-seas? I though it would be an on-shoring brand.

Good point.....technically you could argue that he's out-sourcing the training and development costs! With the way the RFU is headed it's open to debate if there will be an English governing body left......maybe MJ is just preparing for that. No English organisation, no English players!

Yeah all the English ones play for Wales and Scotland

I always had this idea that Britain (England) built its empire based on finding the toughest tribes around - beating them with better technology - then recruiting into the army, training them up and giving them the technology to start on the next guys - starting with Scotland.

WEll I like the team. We probably lack a bit of pace in the wings, but otherwise I think it's a really sensible selection:

Corbisero: Playing for a place on the plane. Has some distance to make up following the Dublin game.
Mears: Worth a look
Stevens: Has said himself England see him as a TH. I think that's a mistake, but then PDJ and Wilson has never really convinced so if Stevens plays well he's going to be the bench option in our strongest team.
Shaw: Playing for a place on the plane. I wouldn't be surprised if MJ asked him to play 80 minutes.
Palmer: Provides balance.
Croft: Need to see what his form is like.
Moody: Needs game time.
Haskell: Exciting selection. Let's see how he goes.
Care: Makes sense, in better form than Youngs even if he were fit.
Wilkinson: I honestly think the place is up for grabs following Flood's dip in form.
Cueto: Experience and kicking.
Flutey: Let's see what his form is really like.
Tuilagi: No-brainer.
Banahan: Can he cut it as a wing? Will probably move to centre when Sharples comes on.
Armitage: Let's see what his form is like.

I might have swapped Sharples for Cueto and Botha for Shaw, but I understand why MJ has gone this way. What we are looking at is potentially the best centre partnership England can field (including players not with the squad) and the future England number 8. Of course it may be that neither is the case, but I'm looking forward to finding out.

No brainer! You got that right mate

Looks like England and Wales are taking slightly different approaches to the game. England largely looking to confirm (or otherwise) selection to the squad (e.g. probable back up props, seeing if Shaw merits a place, checking Haskell as a back-up 8 and the form of Flutey, Tuillagi, Armitage) and looking at possible back up combinations such as Care and Wilkinson. Just a sprinkling of probable first choices (Hartley, Palmer, Moody, Croft, Cueto).

Wales look to be closer to their best available selection, while filtering in (some out of choice, others out of necessity) a handful of squad players.

Should make for an interesting game, and with the added spice that there is a re-match next week where I would anticipate Johnston picking a side much closer to his intended first XV - be interesting to see if Gatland uses the second match to test out his squad depth, or if he'll pick a side looking for the win.

What kind of team selection would you be looking at next week? I think a 22 of:

1. Sheridan (if fit)
2. Thompson
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Deacon
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Easter
9. Youngs (if fit)
10. Flood
11. Monye
12. Hape
13. Tindall (C)
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Mears
17. Doran-Jones
18. Shaw/Botha (depending on who plays better this week)
19. Fourie
20. Simpson
21. Flutey
22. Tuilagi/Sharples

Could really put this week's team selection into context. To my knowledge, it would ensure everyone (except Payne, who is only covering for Sheridan's injury) in the training squad got game time, before the Ireland match, and it would let us look at a couple of our other options. After this match we'd be able to finalise our 30, and then we could put out our strongest 22 against Ireland.

robbo - think that the team may well depend on what happens this weekend. If Flutey and Manu have a stormer (for example) I doubt that Jonno will want to shake things up, and will leave them there.

That said, your side certainly looks more 1st team than the team for tomorrow