How do the AllBlacks keep getting away with it ?

First topic message reminder :

Things are starting to go too far now !!! I have just finished watching the game and yet again I have watched the AllBlacks get away with countless infringements, not releasing the the tackler, knock on's, off sides, illegal rucking, killing the ball at the breakdown, some people might just say they are being streetwise but I just don't see it this way, I can turn a blind eye to the odd infringement but New Zealand go into every game with a mindset to cheat. Even the all time up his own arris Justin Marshell was commenting on how the AllBlacks today were getting away with murder(not his words but more or less) which was quite refreshing. I wouldn't mind so much but one decision against them, e.i the forward pass against France at the last world cup then there is all out war. I only hope the referee's are strong when the world cup comes along or it will be a hard task for anyone who plays them, not that it wouldn't if they did not bend the rules. Que the New Zealanders on here calling for my head for daring to speak the truth, but I must get this off my chest.

Aucklander that you are too stupid to see when someone is taking the mick out of people posting whinge articles about the AB's doesn't excuse you. If every thick as a plank kiwi is going to attack people that stick up for us, we will get a lot more posts like lord D's here.

Reading through all this, it seems the Wallabies were beaten by having their 9-10 contained and being physically pushed around? Is that a fair assessment? I would agree Giteau is not the answer at 10. To me he was always a 12 anyway, which he where he played coming up. Besides he does have a lot of mileage on him by now.

Linbreaker
I thought the Australians equalled New Zealand in a lotof on the ground breakdowns in fact I'd say that Australia effected just as many turnovers on the ground as the ABs which has to show a massive improvement interms of the way Australis was [laying 18 months ago.
I also thought The Australian bench performed better then NZ.
personally I couldnt see what referee Joubert did that warranted any criticism , let alone the accusations that he let the " All Blacks get away with it".

Wayne Barnes let Ireland away with a lot of dodgy stuff at Murrayfield yesterday but as a 'friendly' warm up test that can be excused. Leinster and Munster get away with a lot of stuff too mind you ! Have not managed to see the ABs v Wallabies game yet so cannot really comment on that match. In general though the ABs are masters at pushing the boundaries of our game's laws.

Yeah laurie,
I think NZ had one or a couple more turnovers and our missed tackles and lineouts (with/against throw) were fairly similar.

Monkeynut
I apologise if I have offended you .................maybe I am stupid but does that disenfranchise me from getting offended by the monotonous All Blacks cheat All Blacks cheat All Blacks cheat All Blacks cheat accusations?????

Linebreaker
In a years time the young guy McCabe will be a true international class player....

I'm also offended at the monotonous AB cheat thing. Which is why my first post was merely pointing out that the biscuit was actually taking the urine out of lord Dowlais great big whinge so, don't go attacking him. Then you got all up in arms against me for pointing out you were attacking the wrong person. Sorry for the name calling.

Aussie weren't as bad as everyone up north seems to think. Cooper played almost as badly in the Super rugby final (poor tactical kicking, running from the back and getting isolated, passing wildly at the back putting others under pressure) against the Crusaders but, the reds weren't punished for it. AB's defense was immense and Carter saved two tries by himself with covering tackles alone. Bossing the aussie pack and suffocating the Aussie playmakers is only half the job done. You still have to put enough points on them and whether Ireland or England can remains to be seen.

Not sure why my article is refered to here.
In the article posted it was directly relevant to the ozzies being over confident which given the result i still maintain.
Even the ozzies commenting didnt dispute the fact saying it was a good thing to be confident.
I saw that as a healthy debate on the subject.
In sport in general compared to kiwis ozzies are typically more confident and to us appear c*ocky. I dont think thats disputed.
But i tend to agree with laurie. If someone watched the match and could only extract from it that one team was cheating then thats just stupid and its likely thats all they watched the game for.
No idea.
There was a huge amount of talent on display. Something not seen often outside the 3N so if cheating was the overiding impression then i would suggest watching it again with blinkers mode off.

MMaaxx wrote:The great England team that won the WC were a team of cheats who knew how not to get caught, but as they say...if you don't get caught it's not cheating!

How dare you sir; the great St. Jonny would never cheat!!!!!!!!!!

Keep your accusations for the other 20 players who may on occasions have erred on the side of cheating and the one who made a living out of doing it better than anyone else, except possibly a certain M Williams.

I think the difference between the two teams was cover defence. I'm pretty sure NZ made more tackles and missed more tackles, lost more lineout ball, got pinged at the scrum more and overall had a tiny bit less possesion.

How many teams would have done better against an ABs team playing a VERY good 60 minutes of rugby. (sort of faded a bit at the end)

nganboy wrote:I think the difference between the two teams was cover defence. I'm pretty sure NZ made more tackles and missed more tackles, lost more lineout ball, got pinged at the scrum more and overall had a tiny bit less possesion.

How many teams would have done better against an ABs team playing a VERY good 60 minutes of rugby. (sort of faded a bit at the end)

Nganboy, the Wallabies had roughly 95 rucks and the all Blakcs 85, the line out losses were 3 OZ All Black 2.

The all Black made just shy of 120 tackles and missed 20.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Linbreaker
I thought the Australians equalled New Zealand in a lotof on the ground breakdowns in fact I'd say that Australia effected just as many turnovers on the ground as the ABs which has to show a massive improvement interms of the way Australis was [laying 18 months ago.
I also thought The Australian bench performed better then NZ.
personally I couldnt see what referee Joubert did that warranted any criticism , let alone the accusations that he let the " All Blacks get away with it".

Other than the knock on he missed when ABs scored a converted try off the kick off - all agreed. 7 points gifted by Joubert. Not much airplay around that I noticed.

Having read the comments I now accept that cheating is obviously imprinted into out dna at birth. I stand amazed by Australia,. How do they manage to remove that evil, wicked, dna to produce the angels that are Wallabies. How do they remove the evil cheating dna from the likes of Cowan, Cooper, and Ioane who were born in NZ as well as Kepu and O Conner who lived here, how do they shield local players from this insideous virus with so many kiwis playing and coaching club rugby in Australia. How did they manage to remove the influence from Deans, and ensure that Nucifora wasn't tainted at the Auckland blues.

I think the answer may be to rearrange the world economy so it revolves around gold and mineral wealth (which come from heaven and Australia has plenty of) instead of wool and butter, which the accursed kiwis use to bribe the referees.

Its the same old question. Ask a Kiwi fan if he would rather his team lost fairly or won and cheated? Personally I would rather Wales lost then cheated to win but then I'm used to loosing being a Welsh fan.

deadfred wrote:Its the same old question. Ask a Kiwi fan if he would rather his team lost fairly or won and cheated? Personally I would rather Wales lost then cheated to win but then I'm used to loosing being a Welsh fan.

Disagree. Most kiwis accept we are beaten by the better side on the day (e.g. the boks in 2008). We tend to look at players and/or coaches before we look at the ref. In some cases (e.g. 2007 against France) a sizeable section of the population will question the referee of a match.

I personally think it is rather untasteful to accuse a team of cheating.

I am trying to get get my head around how a team will actually cheat.

Thoughts have been ranging from, paying off the referee, playing an extra player, using performance enhancing drugs, balck mailing the referee or opponents, playing with glue on your hands not to miss a catch, using a radio controlled device to ensure that the ball flies true.

None of these abovementioned ideas can work.


So I am still confused as to how they cheat.

All I know is it frustrates fans that there is a growing perception that the All Blacks are getting away with "murder" to an extent.

The fact is they play the same laws as everyone else, and if they get away with playing on the edge of the law, perhaps they are then smarter than us.

Otherwise, suck it up and blame the referees.

Of course the All Blacks don't cheat and Richie McC has never ever been offside in his life, because the AB's don't need to cheat or infringe, because the Rule book interpretated by 'Paddy o Blindeye' ensures that refs have blinkers on when the AB's play. I have lost count of the number of times that refs turn a Blind eye to AB's but seem to have their radar turned up to maximun for any opponants that they face. This is a disgrace and shames Rugby. Down with the AB's and the supine refs who indulge their every whim.

deadfred wrote:Its the same old question. Ask a Kiwi fan if he would rather his team lost fairly or won and cheated? Personally I would rather Wales lost then cheated to win but then I'm used to loosing being a Welsh fan.

Does that go for the Ireland game then???

Find it odd though that not one commentary, not one media release, not one comment by the oz side after the match inferred any sign or hint of cheating and that it seems to be limited to certain posters pn this site and if you think our world cup experience will be tainted by continuous accusations of cheating through sheer jealousy then bring it on.
I can find enough inept experiences from NH matches to fill these boards should these unfounded cheating accusations go on.

It's great no actual chinks in the armour for the envy brigade to stick a wedge in so they're back to the sad old "cheating" accusation.

Now a southern hemisphere ref has never ruined a world cup, whereas a green and pasty Englishman has. He was defended by paddy o turncoat, so not sure what your point is.

Perhaps you're just bitter because the northern hemisphere teams were just so woeful in the weekend?

Yeah well I didn't really mean what I posted above as its only the minority. I do recall on 606v1 when we started feeling the tension of the upcoming world cup that the stones were being thrown around. A lot of them at Kiwis because of the way they were trouncing everyone.

And when they lost the boards lit up like Xmas for ages so I hope we don't have to got through that again.

The Mods on these boards are more active and the numbers are fewer so lets hope it doesn't regress into a quagmire again.

In saying that if someone can look at that match and only take from it 'cheating' then they have lost the plot completely. That was one of the most complete AB efforts for a while and I'd suggest if teams want to know how to stop this Oz attack- THE best attack in World rugby- then they should perhaps learn more from it rather than coming in with an agenda.

Well said. But to be fair though, what happens on these or predecessor boards has no relevance at all to anything in the real world, and if a couple of sad acts as you say, watch the game and only see NZ "cheating" and fail to learn anything it won't matter a bit.

If some random 606v2 poster comes up with THE definitive way to stop Australia, it's going to remain entirely a matter of cyber-conjecture no matter how clever it is.

Let me make a few comments here,firstly any Referee will tell you he could
he penalize EITHER side for numerous infringements at EVERY Breakdown.
Gamesmanship,or playing the referee is what all good teams do.
Be honest how many people are expert enough in the laws to question the Refs decisions.You are often influenced by sometimes biased commentators,
Richie McCaw is the most vilified player in the game here.
He plays the game to the line of the law.and sometimes over it,he gets penalized often.Many times he wins the ball LEGALLY and is pinged,as many times wins it ILLEGALLY and is not.
Where he is so good is the communicates with the Ref,to find what he is doing wrong and corrects it.Adjusting to the ref,is being streetwise not cheating.
In two of the last three All Black v Wallaby matches team planning was the difference.
The Wallabies were out thought,no Carter,they wheeled on two rookies Crudon and Slade.Crudon was flavor of the month but an iffy Goal kicker,enter Piri Weepu,goal kicker.
Australia have a lot of talent ,the forwards fronted up,the team was unchanged.
All Blacks made 7 changes.many coming back from rest and injury,some had not had the best S15 especially the Wellington contingent.
The doubters after Hong Kong ,plus on the back of the Reds success said the ABs were ripe for taking.
Those of us who follow the All Blacks thru thick and thin knew better,a single win in 11 encounters,by a couple of points at death knock .
Then come to Eden Park after Dunedin,The House of Pain the ground where
more teams have lost than any other.and win NO WAY.
33 wins by all comers out of 450 plus games the odds against were enormous. Those who ignore History are doomed to repeat it,so it proved you can talk up your team,have faith.
Faith can move mountains,but can`t beat a better team,people talk of respect or not to the All Blacks.
Respect is not a word it is the result of actions,it is earned by their Record the All Blacks have earned tha.t 10 wins out of 11 matches on the trot a 3Ns 6-0 ,1 loss in the last 17 THAT earns respect in any ones language.
Yesterday a TEAM beat a group of talented individuals,make no mistake it was team plan that beat the Wallabies.
When the All Blacks lose they go back to basics,plan a strategy and fix the rot.
Then as Night follows Day they make a statement.France at Marseille,Boks at Eden Park 2010,Wallabies yesterday PAYBACK TIME.
Australia will pay a lot worse than yesterday and win matches ,when the All Blacks cleared there benches they lost some shape.
For Australia this was near there best side,the All Blacks perhaps half to reach those last few notches. When they DO?
As to cheating, EVERY Loose forward since Dave Gallaher and Bronco Seeling of the 1905 All Blacks thru Hennie Muller,Bill Clark,Kel Tremain,Michael Jones,Neil Back,Juan Smith, Broussow,Pocock,Phil Waugh.
The Great England 2003 side,and many great Bok sides were labelled cheats and thugs too by the losers.

Emack always a pleasure to read your thoughts, although I do sometimes wonder what kind of device you post from? You certainly maintain the most consistently distinctive paragraph construction on the entire of 606v2.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Emack always a pleasure to read your thoughts, although I do sometimes wonder what kind of device you post from? You certainly maintain the most consistently distinctive paragraph construction on the entire of 606v2.

That's almost poetic TGG. Actually I think I remember Emack writing once about his form of dyslexia which explained why his posts look as they do.
Anyway to blame Paddy and Richie for the 100 odd years worth of AB wins is a little rough.

One for The Grey Ghost :

Things are starting to go too far now !!! I have just finished watching the game and yet again I have watched the AllBlacks get away with countless infringements, not releasing the the tackler, knock on's, off sides, illegal rucking, killing the ball at the breakdown, some people might just say they are being streetwise but I just don't see it this way, I can turn a blind eye to the odd infringement but England go into every game with a mindset to cheat. Even the all time up his own arris Brian Moore was commenting on how the AllBlacks today were getting away with murder(not his words but more or less) which was quite refreshing. I wouldn't mind so much but one decision against them, e.i the foot in touch against SA at the last world cup then there is all out war. I only hope the referee's are strong when the world cup comes along or it will be a hard task for anyone who plays them, not that it wouldn't if they did not bend the rules. Que the English on here calling for my head for daring to speak the truth, but I must get this off my chest.

If you are not cheating
you are not trying!
End of story!

Yeah I mean McCaw is just great. Best player since 2000 and has 3 IRB best players and I think 6 finalist nominations to show for it.

All voted for by his playing and rugby peers. People who know what they're talking about not the never ending queue of idiots who line up to watch Ritchies actions at breakdown time.

They'd hardly pick him year after year if he was a cheat now would they. Understandable though that some people need their regular dose of McCaw kicking. He's big enough to handle it anyway...

Some people could argue the other way round.
That is that NZ are penalised far to heavily because the refs are gotten to by the media and coaches pointing out the penality possibilities.
eg McCaw is targetted by other teams for dirty shots and don't get called for them eg Hartley forearm and Powell headhigh

Ngan
You mean like when Richie McCaw head butted that Irish no8's knee a couple of times...........

aucklandlaurie wrote: Ngan
You mean like when Richie McCaw head butted that Irish no8's knee a couple of times...........

Heaslip deserved a red but McCaw lay on the ball and prevented it from coming back. Wayne Barnes wasn't prepared to penalise it preventing a near certain try. Can only imagine how frustrating that must be.

i dont think Heaslip was interested in scoring tries.the fact that McCaw couldnt roll away tell me was trapped or are you suggesting that he lay there so that it would be easier for Mr Heaslip to knee him ,Repeatedly....

aucklandlaurie wrote: i dont think Heaslip was interested in scoring tries.the fact that McCaw couldnt roll away tell me was trapped or are you suggesting that he lay there so that it would be easier for Mr Heaslip to knee him ,Repeatedly....

No he lay there to slow the ball down obviously which he succeeded in doing. If the referee doesn't penalise him off course he will become a target as he clearly is. You don't see Carter targeted in the same way and he is just as important a player to NZ.

Well its easier to target someone when they're stuck in a ruck.

Actually I was just taking the p*ss about NZ getting away with things. We all have our biased view points and theirs always an out of context example to support our bias.

Saw a stat last night. In the last game McCaw was penalised once and Pocock 3 times.
Now some people would argue that McCaw is the greater cheat because he got "away with it" while Pocock was the lesser cheat because he didn't get away with it.

One of the times Pocock got penalised was for not rolling away. Guess who was lying on top of him preventing him from rolling away fishing for a penalty? You guessed it crafty McCaw.

leinsterbaby wrote:One of the times Pocock got penalised was for not rolling away. Guess who was lying on top of him preventing him from rolling away fishing for a penalty? You guessed it crafty McCaw.

Leinsterbaby, there you said it. "Crafty", not cheating.

He knew exactly what he was doing. My point was that it was a little harsh to penalise Pocock in that case.

How does that differ from the yellow card shown to Daniel Braid in Cardiff 2010 when he "failed to roll away" with three Welsh forwards lying on top of him? two minutes after he arrived on the field? Not sure this is an innovation of McCaw cheating, just a fact of the game that if you are slowing the ball down in the ruck then you will be penalised regardless of how "accidentally" you came to be there.

TheGreyGhost wrote:How does that differ from the yellow card shown to Daniel Braid in Cardiff 2010 when he "failed to roll away" with three Welsh forwards lying on top of him? two minutes after he arrived on the field? Not sure this is an innovation of McCaw cheating, just a fact of the game that if you are slowing the ball down in the ruck then you will be penalised regardless of how "accidentally" you came to be there.

"accidentally" is a word Graham Henry and the ABs are very familiar with themselves.

Sounds like excellent play by McCaw, within the rules and yielding a good result for NZ.

Ok, we've established that. Time to debunk the next ridiculous whinging claim about McCaw's unpunished evil deeds...

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Ok, we've established that. Time to debunk the next ridiculous whinging claim about McCaw...

How about the claim that McCaw should be given a knighthood. What has your pm being smoking?

http://mobi.supersport.com/rugby/rugby-world-cup/news/110809/NZ_PM_tips_knighthood_for_McCaw

If Balshaw can get an MBE for 2 minutes on the pitch, I don't see why not.

Good point!