AllBlacks the Future?

As is well known on these boards I am a Rabid All Black fan,an Old Man and a Realist.Also even my worst detractors here must concede that I know a bit about Rugby.Especially New Zealand Rugby,in my long life time I have come to realise the obvious.Even Great teams have periods when they go into decline all be it relative usually when a lot of players go at once.Now for various reasons this malaise happened to the AllBlacks from mid1930`s-1949 after 2-3-2 scrum was outlawed.1953-4 when many of the Kiwi side retired,1970`s when NH Coaching overtook the SH.Also briefly 1994,1998-2000,2010[briefly].The cycle is here again for them now,with the constant drain of players going overseas and retirements.It is easy to point out there deficencies harder to fix,Modern Sports medicine means a longer playing life at the top.Players like McCaw,Carter,Conrad Smith.Nonu,Woodcock could all be in contention for the next RWC.Also there strength in depth is legendery BUT,as an example 3 Top Hookers are about 33/4.All there experienced Props,10`s,12`s,Wingers,are now playing overseas.Currently in NZ there is only one Lock with more than 26 test caps,at Prop there are currently only 4 with many caps.One recognised 12,one !0 with anything like a lot of caps,No FullBacks or Wings with many caps.Apart from McCaw and Read.no loose forward with more than about 25 caps only two 13s with many caps only one 9 with much starting experience.You are talking about the AllBlacks current IRB number ones where they have been almost since it`s inception,RWC holders etc.In the short term there are gaps at 4 and 6 in the forwards at Wing ,Full Back,12,13 and so on.Today there was a salutory lesson you cannot put an old head on young shoulders,players like Retalick,Savea even SBW
maybe the future[if he stays].BUT obviously they are not the finished article Ireland played as only they can scrapped for every thing.Did`nt let
the other side settle.Created very little,but stopped the otherside creating too by methods legal or otherwise.There is lot s of talk about Thomson or Vito not being Kaino of course there not.Both need to adapt there game to suit the ABs as opposed to there franchise,BUT who else is there.Liam Massem a multi talented indvidual but never shown it at the top level,George Whitelock who would`nt let you down?Read or McCaw at 6.with Vito or Thomson at 8? and young Cane,Luke Braid,or Matt Todd at 7.Sticking a big lump at 4 to replace Brad Thorn may work
but who else is there.Retalick,Romano,maybe Hoerta,Ali Williams, Tom Donnelly, Anton Boric, or Jason Eaton.There are lots of youngsters bubbling under BUT when they are fed into the mix is important.Also young hopefuls not getting game time may opt for NH or Japan rather than wait.Take the Crusaders for example both Colin Slade and Stephen Brett were told by GH to move franchises rather than be in DC`s shadow if they wanted to be AB`s.Little good it did them Bretts in Europe,Slade seem s permanently injured and is probably NH bound when fit.
Tom Taylor and Tyler Bleyendahl are in the same boat both excellent prospects BUT the 10`s are queing up Crudon now first man up BUT DC is back to his best for at least 2 years.Problem for both Coaches and Fans how many losses are you prepared to take to rebuild a team expectations are so high.Near 82% win stats in the pro era,better than sthat under the gang of 3 how long before the media is .baying for blood.
THE best team and some of the most unforgiving fans in world Rugby,incidentally I expected an Irish back lash today,can they go one better next week?

Not bad problems to have emack2!

The Ab's have a conveyor belt of players coming through all the time. They'll be up there with the best in the world for a long time to come.

I think though - as I have been saying - the NH teams are catching up with the SH teams.

So the people say ,BUT the results say otherwise 4 SH sides wins out of 5 today
all close but no cigar.Being up with the best is not good enough they have to
be THE BEST!!!!.

Alan no probs with the current side. Its obvious after a thrashing like last week the AB's arent exactly going to be the most motivated they can possibly be for this match. Even so, they got through. Mark of a top side.

Next week the shoes on the other foot and it will be Irelands turn to face the backlash. Ive no doubt about that.

Sure we've issues at lock and 6 but no worse than other teams at many more positions. We have the current worlds best or equal best at prop, 7, 8, 10, 13 and 15 plus were up there with lock, hooker and wing when Jane gets back and Aaron Smith after 2 tests has been a revelation at 9 so we're still ok and still winning.

Its early days yet.

This is my biggest concern for the year:

How Hansen adapts to match Meyers Springbok side. Limited as their gameplan may be, its very effective and Henry understood clearly how to unsettle it.

However, Hansen aint Henry and Meyer certainly aint PDV. Being a simple gameplan its just a matter of getting the right core players to perform the relatively narrow set of skills required for it. But when done correctly its very hard to counter.

This puts the Boks at an advantage. If they tied our backs up as effectively as Ireland did last night their pack would have destroyed us.

I'm ok with the quality of the players coming through, I'm just concerned SA are on a slightly steeper improvement curve than we are due to the presence of Meyer.

And if Ali is on the bench next week I will personally petition parliament!

Hi,Taylorman my concern is not short term but long term Thomson I think can adapt his game at 6.OR Read revert to 6 and play Vito at 8 his preferred position
Savea had a great debut but was found out today,Romano and Hoerta both deserve a shot at lock.Not sure that just because Retalick is huge he is the answer. I think it is a case of horses for courses Nonu at 12 versus Boks[SBW on bench] vice versa against OZ.Retalick I haven`t seen much of as I don`t watch Super rugby but he looks ok at the core stuff NO SEAGULL.Romano has been playing with Whitelock for Crusaders so they each others game.Hoerta may have the Rougher edge from what I have heard of him.Of Course a fit Boric might be the answer too.

Well with 6 or so potential locks we look ok there. Just as Savea was poor so was McCaw, Dagg, Ali, Ben Franks yet A Smith was one of the better ones so its not a newbie thing at all. Gameplan certainly didnt play to Saveas strengths but he and Guilford are certainly terrible under the high ball.

Gear and B Smith might get a shot next week.

Messams in for Ali G who's out for 8 weeks with a knee injury. Not good for Ali but he shouldnt be there anyway. Tough but true.

A "backlash" for the Irish might indeed be on the cards next week (although the reasons for such a 'backlash elude me at the moment!!! considering it was Ireland who lost out in a close game and are probably the side that are thinking we need to make the next one count if we get close enough in the end. Meaning to say, I'm sure Ireland's attitude will be they need to do a "backlash" on the ABs steal at the end)

But yes, the ABs might feel the scoreline was much too close and feel they need to give the world a message that it was a but a blip and will want to knock Ireland back into their shipping boxes back to the NH with long and painful memories for the trip to take with them.

But - that can only be the case if one of two things happen. Either the Irish revert to type and come out playing like pack mules laden down with pots and pans and lots of other stuff to trip up on.... or.... the All Blacks have yet another gear in rawness, fight, aggression and invention.

A great great side...and for me, the best side still on the field yesterday in any of the games in terms of ability and potential to inflict severe pain on a non-prepared team...but, I don't think they have too many extra gears than the one on display yesterday.

I do obviously believe they can play a more slicker, beautiful offloading fast paced game than the one shown yesterday (if allowed to) but in terms of what McCaw described as a true rugby test game - where muscle and bravery and devil-may-care-about-injury warfare are the ingredients, I don't think they have a much higher gear than the one shown to turn over Ireland's hope at the end, or indeed one that will force capitulation onto Irish players well used to physicality of brutal proportions. The Irish might even have another gear too in that department if the ABs think they have one.

So, if the backlash for the Irish is coming from the ABs next week then I think it will need to be from the magician cabinet of more slick invention or another major underperformance from this erratic Ireland side rather than anything blunt, vicious and menacing.

My feeling is we have potential issues. I think we are feeling the loss of Brad Thorn and maybe Kaino in the scrum, and in the loose. None of the options out there today seemed to offer the power these guys did.

We're a bit thin in the proping department as well, but it may not be surprising given the number of players lost overseas, in the last few years.

I'm not yet convinced with SBW at centre, or Guilford at wing. After having a glut of world class wingers I think we suddenly find ourselves a bit short (albeit Kahui and Jane are injured).

In terms of coaching, we'll have a better idea at the end of the year. I have my doubts about Foster. Nice guy (he was just ahead of me at uni), but his teams seem to play too predictably for me.

The other factor is how other teams go and the structure the IRB provide. For me South Africa are the team on the rise. I don't think it's just Meyer. I think they were there, or there abouts, last year. A loss to Australia in the quarters doesn't change that for me.

In terms of the IRB. My main fear is that we are heading into a phase that really advantages defensive teams, I think it's a continuation on from last year. If I'm right then we'll see a lot of flat defenses and forward drives, punctuated by either kicking to get into the opposition half accompanied by box kicks. It's the kind of limited environment we struggle in against teams like South Africa, England and France.

Yeah Im concerned about the Boks too BC.Hansen might bring Nonu in next week but I'd prefer he stick with SBW for the series to see how far he can go. Nonu can be kept on ice for now, breathing it all in.

I've got doubts about Hansens ability to match Meyer tactically. Meyer has made it clear. A simple but crushing gameplan that is relentless and unforgiving might rattle Hansen and his team. He maybe a good coach but tactically I think hes not up to Henrys abilities, despite being there through it all.

Secretfly the most likely scenario is that both teams come out firing. If the Irish dont I'd be very disappointed as it wont be a motivational issue theyll be lacking.

Sorry to intrude, lads, but if you don't want Sean Maitland, pls pls can we have him? Cheers

The game plan was wrong for all blacks. They attack into Irish strength around the ruck when last week they went width early.

SBW kept turning in and making the in pass.

Ireland suffocate NZ at the breakdown but as I say on the other post it was most about old fashion referee to allow sealing off by Ireland in defensive.

There is a problem about lose Brad Thorn and Kaino as everyone can see but is not made better with the weak bench option of Ali Williams and the slow and off form Weepu. The pass for first DG attempt to win was slow and high. Smith would have won the game at the first try.