Your Irish team and wishlist for the 1st French game

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 08 Aug 2011, 3:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

This is my team and wishlist

1- Court:
Thought he did quite well on Saturday. His scrummaging held up well enough and he was more prominent in the loose than in previous matches. Want to continue to rest Healy (busy season) and look at alternative incase necessary.
2- Flannery:
He didn't get much time or much ball on Saturday, think he needs to be tested further. Maybe play 60mins. See if we can operate without Best's manic work in defence and at the breakdown but with Flannerys work in the loose. Want Best to rest also.
3- Ross:
Would like him to be tested against a team that moves teh ball a lot to see how much of an improvement he has made in the loose. Also think it would be good for him to go up against strong scrummaging packs to continue his improvement in this area.
4- O'Connell:
After a season interrupted by injury and suspension I think he needs some time to get firing on all cylinders again. Want to see how well he and Cullen manage together. Will help Fla settle also. His ball carrying should help also.
5- Cullen:
Think he should be tested further and want to see this combination at work. His leadership is great but would like him to take on more responsibility with ball in hand. He ran the lineout fantastically against the Scots too.
6- Ryan:
Another who I want to continue to see. Will move to lock during the second half. Needs to show more athleticism, aggression and ball carrying. Continue good work in defence.
7- O'Brien
I'd like to see him at 7. It is his worst position and I would like him to be tested further here. He shouldn't feel the need to be a fetcher due to the number he wears. He will bring much needed ball carrying.
8- Leamy:
Deserves a shot with a less make shift team. Needs to up his performances to get on the plane let alone the 22 but he has it in him. Want to see more aggression and also continue on with his improved discipline.
9- O'Leary:
Like Leamy deserves time with a better pack and needs time with Sexton. Sexton shouldn't have to stand so deep when playing with TOL, this needs to be addressed. Should defender better than against Scot considering that is his forte and needs to get quicker ball.
10- Sexton: Needs time with O'Leary and Wallace. I'd like him to have a win over France under his belt before the RWC. A sub in the French game at the Aviva.
11- Earls:
Needs some game time to kick on and continue his great form towards the end of last season. We need a guy who is going to join the line and really attack spaces in midfield at pace.
12- Wallace:
Needs to kick on from Saturday, continue good defence but needs to be more creative, stand either deeper or flatter instead of somewhere in no mans land. Continue clever kicks and running good support lines. Want to see him make half breaks more.
13- Bowe:
I would really like to see him here for Ireland for a bit. He has played there in a Lions test. Could be good here has the pace, balance, strength, line running, pass and appreciation of space. Something of an experiment for Ireland.
14- Fitzgerald:
Would like him to kick on from Saturday with good broken field running and excellent defence however needs to kick less and look for inside and outside pops from the midfield.
15- Jones:
Needs to be tried. I would consider this his last chance for the RWC as Murphy/Kearney would start the week after if he didn't excel. Needs to do what he does the best, get the basics right and run elusively from deep.

Buckley: Want to see if there is an improved performance when off the bench.
Cronin: Needs to be tested again, had a poor game on Saturday, is losing a bench spot IMO at the moment.
Jennings: Needs game time as he is our only trad 7 it would be benefitial if he went to the RWC.
Heaslip: Needs to be brought into the mix again and seeing a Leinster backrow for Ireland could be interesting.
Murray: His one and only chance in my eyes. Must take it if it comes his way.
McFadden: Again last chance really for a plane ticket especially if Fitz and trimble continue to shine
Murphy: Needs game time, the best 15 of the 2 games (Fran and Scot) should start in the Aviva. I want Kearney to start the game on the 20th

WISHLIST:

Continued excellent swarm defence
More creative attack & more aggressive and effective ball carrying
Wallace and Sexton to combine better
Smarter kicking game
SOB to do well at 7.
Bowe experiment to be a success.
O'Leary's service to speed up considerably.

What is your team and wishlist????

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:07 pm

SOME RATIONAL GUESSING

HORAN and COURT are both playing for their provinces this week so HEALY to start????

STRINGER has been sent back to Munster but not MURRAY, MURRAY to see game time????

MURPHY went off last night limping in the Tigers training match, no idea how bad it is yet, JONES to start????

by **rodders** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:08 pm

Ouch I'll grab my coat...Taxi!... Run

by Standulstermen Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:09 pm

Earls may start at 15 Pete but other than that i agree. I think we will see as close to the last 6N game as possible

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:12 pm

Yes that is an option too. Would be good to see, think Jones needs to start there now that Murphy is out and Kearney had 80 in the last game.

by Standulstermen Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:15 pm

There are 2 ways of looking at it though pete. The way you have suggested above or (with D'arcy injured) will we see an extra centre option taken.

BOD, Wallace, McFadden, Fitz, Trimble, Earls, Bowe, Kearney

I think we may see Earls here in the hope that he will be tested more defensively than against England

by The Great Aukster Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:36 pm

roddersm wrote:For me Trimble's best performances to date have come in the 13 position and I could never quite understand why he was moved.

Originally he was moved at Ulster not at EOS's request (as some thought), but because he had a hand injury (for about a seaon and a half). He had to play through that because Ulster needed him and it was less inhibiting on the wing. Still his visible passing and confidence obviously suffered and it was only when he got it fixed that his form returned. He has moved to the centre at times for Ulster since and looked good there, but given that BOD is in the Irish team and Ulster have Cave and Spence now, he has stayed on the wing.

My point is that he is equally good at 13 or 14, so why disrupt the team plans in two positions rather than one?

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:46 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:My point is that he is equally good at 13 or 14, so why disrupt the team plans in two positions rather than one?

I completely disagree with your point based on the level of the performances he has made in both positions.

by **rodders** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:49 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Originally he was moved at Ulster not at EOS's request (as some thought), but because he had a hand injury (for about a seaon and a half). He had to play through that because Ulster needed him and it was less inhibiting on the wing. Still his visible passing and confidence obviously suffered and it was only when he got it fixed that his form returned. He has moved to the centre at times for Ulster since and looked good there, but given that BOD is in the Irish team and Ulster have Cave and Spence now, he has stayed on the wing.

My point is that he is equally good at 13 or 14, so why disrupt the team plans in two positions rather than one?

You see Aukster that is my recollection, that Trimbles form and confidence dipped when he was moved to the wing, not the other way around.

It seemed to take him a few season to adjust to the wing position because his positioning sense and kicking and cathcing game was not good there originally. He has improved a lot though but it's not his natural position.

People seem to think he was primarily a winger but he really only slotted there because Hickie was injured but he was a schoolboy star at centre and many were tipping him as the next BOD when he first broke though at Ulster.

It's ironic now that we have surplus of wingers and very little options at centre.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:51 pm

I consider Bowe, earls, McFadden, Wallace, BOD, Darcy and to an extent Fitz as options at centre.

5 out of 7 of them have played at centre for the Lions

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 2:52 pm

His form and confidence dropped because he was injured for a long time and played a lot of rugby when he wasn't 100% fit. He then went on to produce the best rugby of his career on the wing for Ulster when he was back at full fitness.

Let's not re-write history here people...

Most importantly, he's spent the last two years working on the skillset needed for him to be an international winger. There's a saying about changing horses in midstream we would be wise to observe.

by **rodders** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:01 pm

Notch wrote:Let's not re-write history here people...

Who's rewriting history? He played center for Coleraine Inst: Fact He burst onto the scene at Ulster in the centre: Fact. His 1st season at centre was so impressive he was thrown in against Australia in 2005 for his 1st cap at 13: Fact.

He was only moved onto the wing because Bowe struggled to step up when Hickie was injured: Fact.

He has become a top winger but I still maintain many of his best displays to date were when he 1st came on the scene as a centre.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:05 pm

He seemed to have more agility then I think. He was so quick on his feet, not a stepper more a swerver.

Scored a few great tries in the autumn internationals that year I seem to remember

by **rodders** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:09 pm

......It's interesting too that a few people have been suggesting Nevin Spence will play on the wing next season and Fergus McFadden has been played mainly there too.

It seems to be the Irish way to move all our promising young centres to the wing and then when we've no centres left at senior level we start trying to play our natural wingers like Fitzgerald, Bowe and Earls in the centre.....

by Standulstermen Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:10 pm

His best performance for Ireland (if i am remebering right) was against SA at lansdowne in 2006 AI's and he was on the wing.

Rodders

Earls would say he is a natural 13. Fitz would say he is a natural 15. Bowe has played everywhere. he is just a natural footballer

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:13 pm

roddersm wrote:
Notch wrote:Let's not re-write history here people...

Who's rewriting history? He played center for Coleraine Inst: Fact He burst onto the scene at Ulster in the centre: Fact. His 1st season at centre was so impressive he was thrown in against Australia in 2005 for his 1st cap at 13: Fact.

He was only moved onto the wing because Bowe struggled to step up when Hickie was injured: Fact.

He has become a top winger but I still maintain many of his best displays to date were when he 1st came on the scene as a centre.

You're rewriting history when you say he lost form when he moved to the wing. He lost form when he suffered a long series of injuries at that time. Correlation is not causation.

I can't agree that he's ever played better than the way he played the season before last on the wing. He was a good centre and is currently a great winger.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:15 pm

Earls isn't a natural 13 and Fitz is not a natural 15. They like aspects of those positions that doesn't mean they are there best positions

Sorry if that seems like I'm jumping down your throat there, not intended

by Standulstermen Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:16 pm

Pete

I may have read articles wrongly then but in the past year i was certain they intimated that was where they saw their natural positions to be respectively. Im not saying i particularly agree.

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:19 pm

roddersm wrote:......It's interesting too that a few people have been suggesting Nevin Spence will play on the wing next season and Fergus McFadden has been played mainly there too.

It seems to be the Irish way to move all our promising young centres to the wing and then when we've no centres left at senior level we start trying to play our natural wingers like Fitzgerald, Bowe and Earls in the centre.....

I'd say Spence would be a better long term choice on the wing, he will never be a great centre until he works on his ball handling and offloading. I would rather see him continue to work on this than ply on the wing though. McFadden is an out and out centre.

Spence and Trimble are very similar players. Natural athletes, natural strike runners, who need skills coaching to excela t any one position. Trimble could have been a great 13 had he brought his passing and offloading up to scratch. Instead he's spent the last two years working on his positional play, high ball and aerial skills and kicking. He's spent the last two years becoming an out and out wing. It would be foolish to reverse that process.

Spence, on the other hand, is young and could be moulded into either a top wing or centre. I would like to see him stay at centre. His defensive psoitioning at 13 and tackling is really good. He's a superb strike runner and when paired with Marshall or Wallace he has a good creative player to play off. But right now he NEEDS a playmaker at 12 to perform because he lacks those skills. He needs to work on his passing and offloading- if he doesn't bring them up to scratch he will be moved out to the wing.

by **rodders** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:29 pm

Notch wrote: Trimble could have been a great 13 had he brought his passing and offloading up to scratch. Instead he's spent the last two years working on his positional play, high ball and aerial skills and kicking. He's spent the last two years becoming an out and out wing. It would be foolish to reverse that process.

Notch this is the point I am trying to make. He could have been a top 13 if he'd been allowed to develop his skills in his natural position. In hindsight I believe this was not the best move for the player or for Ireland even though he has developed into an excellent winger.

I don't want to see the same mistake be made with Spence, or for that matter McFadden. Both have areas to work on to be top class centres but they'll only do that with game time and not being shunted out to the wing.

by GunsGerms Tue 09 Aug 2011, 3:48 pm

Notch wrote:
roddersm wrote:
Notch wrote:Let's not re-write history here people...

Who's rewriting history? He played center for Coleraine Inst: Fact He burst onto the scene at Ulster in the centre: Fact. His 1st season at centre was so impressive he was thrown in against Australia in 2005 for his 1st cap at 13: Fact.

He was only moved onto the wing because Bowe struggled to step up when Hickie was injured: Fact.

He has become a top winger but I still maintain many of his best displays to date were when he 1st came on the scene as a centre.

He was a very good centre. Remember some of his performances for Ulster well at centre. Pity he didn't stay there because I reckon he could have Been class there.

You're rewriting history when you say he lost form when he moved to the wing. He lost form when he suffered a long series of injuries at that time. Correlation is not causation.

I can't agree that he's ever played better than the way he played the season before last on the wing. He was a good centre and is currently a great winger.

by Sin é Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:49 pm

Its not unusual for centres to be well able to play on the wing and in fact many start their international career out there.

Off the top of my head, Nonu, Rougerie, Jean de Villiers all started their international careers on the wing and are now playing in the centre.

Good players are good players and can adapt easily enough. I think it was Les Kiss said that its not a massive difference playing 11 when you are used to playing 13 (when questioned about Earls starting on the wing for Ireland when used to playing in the centre for Munster).

It all depends on the players and their actual skill set. If you have them all you can play anywhere, but you do need pace to be on the wing.

I'd argue that having played in the centre a fair bit actually help Trimble & Earls as they are very comfortable coming in off their wing looking for work.

by Feagh McHugh Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:54 pm

All that makes sense Sin e.

Nobody picked up on my comment (or found it interesting!) that SOB is to start at no 7 against France???

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:56 pm

I agree Sin, I think centres based on style are generally able to play either on the wing (Earls, Bowe, Nonu, JDV, Ansbro, Evans) or can play 10 (Giteau, Carter, Cooper, Hook, Wallace)

I think it is pretty accurate to say that most centres can play in another position, exceptions I can think of, Basteraud, Jauzion, Fourie (I think).

Didn't see your comment on SOB at 7. Where'd you hear he is starting there or is it jsut your preference? I'd welcome that news.

by Feagh McHugh Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:02 pm

Ehhh.... I was told by he - and he is raring to go. Was funny spotted him driving a tractor and a spreader around 20 minutes before kick off last week , priorities!

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:07 pm

That makes me very happy I gotta say.

The one thing I would also want is a good 6 and 8. I want him to feel free enough to go smashing through tackles not having to lend another body to a ruck. That's why for Leinster he looks better at 6 because Shane Jennings is delievering quick ball.

When at 7 for Leinster McLaughlin is at 6 and he isn't as good at cleaning out players or rucking in general.

My idea scenario would be
6 Ryan/Leamy
7 SOB
8 Leamy/Heaslip

by Feagh McHugh Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:13 pm

From what I heard you are getting your ideal scenarios the weekend.
I think Its more testing Leamy at 6 and SOB at 7 in case Wallace gets injured. Ferris's lack of games is starting to worry me - unless he is included at 6 this week (which I think he is not as it stands) or gets time from the bench.

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:46 pm

roddersm wrote:
Notch wrote: Trimble could have been a great 13 had he brought his passing and offloading up to scratch. Instead he's spent the last two years working on his positional play, high ball and aerial skills and kicking. He's spent the last two years becoming an out and out wing. It would be foolish to reverse that process.

Notch this is the point I am trying to make. He could have been a top 13 if he'd been allowed to develop his skills in his natural position. In hindsight I believe this was not the best move for the player or for Ireland even though he has developed into an excellent winger.

I don't want to see the same mistake be made with Spence, or for that matter McFadden. Both have areas to work on to be top class centres but they'll only do that with game time and not being shunted out to the wing.

But the core of the matter for me is he'd never be as good a centre as he is on the wing. I'm sure of it.

by The Great Aukster Tue 09 Aug 2011, 6:16 pm

roddersm wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Originally he was moved at Ulster not at EOS's request (as some thought), but because he had a hand injury (for about a seaon and a half). He had to play through that because Ulster needed him and it was less inhibiting on the wing. Still his visible passing and confidence obviously suffered and it was only when he got it fixed that his form returned. He has moved to the centre at times for Ulster since and looked good there, but given that BOD is in the Irish team and Ulster have Cave and Spence now, he has stayed on the wing.

My point is that he is equally good at 13 or 14, so why disrupt the team plans in two positions rather than one?

You see Aukster that is my recollection, that Trimbles form and confidence dipped when he was moved to the wing, not the other way around.

It seemed to take him a few season to adjust to the wing position because his positioning sense and kicking and cathcing game was not good there originally. He has improved a lot though but it's not his natural position.

People seem to think he was primarily a winger but he really only slotted there because Hickie was injured but he was a schoolboy star at centre and many were tipping him as the next BOD when he first broke though at Ulster.

It's ironic now that we have surplus of wingers and very little options at centre.

It's hardly surprising that a player doesn't play as well if he's not fit! Kearney hasn't been fully fit until now since the Lions, Leamy and POC too are only just getting back to full fitness. Fitzgerald maybe has got his fitness back but not the confidence to exploit it yet. I have doubts whether Ferris will ever return to 100% fitness.

Regarding Trimble he was forced to learn additional skills so I can't see how that means he automatically loses his previous ones? I agree with Sin that the skillsets are compatible anyway so the choice is which 'style' of player suits the gameplan best - i.e. a carrier or a distributor. In Trimbles' case he is a much more capable passer now than when he was (being successful as) a regular centre, therefore it is logical to suggest he could offer a lot in that position.

If Trimble can't play any position but wing (same as Fitz) then his place in the squad must be in doubt, if he is to go as a cover player. Kidney might even be tempted to take someone like Duffy ahead of him who (supposedly) has the utility to avoid disrupting several backline positions for one injury.

by **Notch** Tue 09 Aug 2011, 6:25 pm

Not really Aukster. We have a lot of versatile players in our squad. Wallace, McFadden, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls... I don't think if he only plays wing that will hurt his chances.

by Standulstermen Tue 09 Aug 2011, 6:49 pm

I thought Ferris was rumoured to be looking at the 2nd France game as his return. To be honest if SOB is getting some time at 7 this weekend i think (well more hope) that Ferris is looking good to get some time at 6. Have to say i am much more looking forward to this game than last weeks

by The Great Aukster Tue 09 Aug 2011, 10:17 pm

Notch wrote:Not really Aukster. We have a lot of versatile players in our squad. Wallace, McFadden, Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls... I don't think if he only plays wing that will hurt his chances.

I agree there is some versatility in the squad but if Trimble can't be considered as centre cover, neither can Fitz be considered anything other than a wing, and Wallace/McFadden as 12's. So the utility is really only provided by Earls and to a lesser extent Bowe. Would anyone really consider playing BOD or D'Arcy at any position other than their own? Yet it is acceptable that Earls and Bowe can be sacrificed from their proven Test positions for ones they are inexperienced in? The upshot is that two starting positions have second choice players caused by just one injury. I'm sure Bowe could be a great 13 if he played there regularly (just as I think he could be a great 15), but Darce is also doubtful, so he won't be learning any patterns outside Wallace or McFadden. The domino effect also means that Trimble or Kearney or whoever slots in at 14 will also just have to play by instinct. Playing by instinct is a great aspiration from the amateur era but as shown by the Lions it rarely prevails over organised defences in the professional one. Generally the more structure the greater success, or why would any team bother with a backs coach?

by **Notch** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:25 am

The point is, those players all have recent experience of covering several positions. Trimble doesn't. When is the last time he played centre?

I agree with you, ideally a team is settled with specialists in every position. Moving players around a lot is of no benefit to the player or the team long term. However, given the size of squads, utility backs are a necessary evil.

Bowe, Earls and Fitzgerald all have a wider skill set than Trimble. That's why they are better candidates to cover multiple positions. Leave Trimble where he is most effective; the wing!

by **rodders** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 9:15 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
I agree there is some versatility in the squad but if Trimble can't be considered as centre cover, neither can Fitz be considered anything other than a wing, and Wallace/McFadden as 12's.

I'm with Aukster on this one. Trimble last played for Ireland in the centre(at 12) against Scotland in 2008 and it was one of his best performances in an Ireland shirt and a country mile better than anything Fitzgerald has produced in the centre so if Fitzgerald, who was also a disaster at full back, is considered versatile then so should Trimble. He's certainly a better centre than Rob Kearney is a winger thats for sure.

Trimble has delivered excellent performances at 11,12,13 and 14 for Ireland so I think this idea that he can only play in one position is unfair.

by Standulstermen Wed 10 Aug 2011, 10:28 am

Its not necessarily that he can only play in one position though Rodders. It is where he is most effective. To be honest i think we have left it to late to try the Bowe option and Earls is more likely to fill in at 13 if needed but Trimble doesnt have the hands for a centre.

Im not saying his hands or passing are bad. These aspects of his game have improved an awful lot but they arent his strength. Its also an issue for Earls in that often he backs himself to the detriment of those outside (or at least he has done)Trimble can be employed in midfield but it should be from coming in off his wing and cutting angles. I say the same about Bowe although we are lacking cutting edge through the middle.

by The Great Aukster Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:55 pm

Plenty of people don't think Nonu has the hands for a centre, but it doesn't stop him being a success. Alternatively Fitzgerald should have the skillset to be a fullback but he failed there despite every opportunity.

As I said earlier these games are purely about the 2011 RWC - not the 2015 one. I don't think Trimble is a long term solution to the departure of BOD, but there is a special set of circumstances for the game on Saturday:
This is a one off game where more players are trying to get match fit.
In D'Arcy's absence the likelihood is that there will be a footballing centre at 12.
Two footballing centres showed nothing in attack against Scotland.
This will be the first game for Bowe and Earls as they prepare for the RWC.
AFAIK Bowe has never played centre for Ireland and Earls only once.
The squad needs viable 13 options, ideally without shifting the backline around.

I really don't see why it's better moving say Bowe from his best position to a part-time position, yet it's taboo to move Trimble from his current best position to his previous best position, especially as he may not be in the starting line-up. Maybe I have just too much confidence in the man.

by **Notch** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 1:57 pm

But Nonu has a great range of passing, he's worked really hard on it and it's better than pretty much any centre we have bar possibly Wallace.

I've already iterated my reasons why I think it's a bad idea and... these debates just go round and round forever. I may as well copy and paste my previous posts.

by **rodders** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:03 pm

Stand and Aukster. I agree with both of you.

Stand I think we have left it late to look at any other options at centre but I think given the lack of penetration shown by McFadden and Wallace and D'arcy's poor 6N form and subsequent injury I think we have no choice but to try some other options.

One thing I'm certain of after the Scotland game is that we won't break down any top class defence with Wallace and McFadden in midfield.

Certainly from an offencive point of view we can't do any worse by trying Earls, Bowe or Trimble in the centre.

by Artful_Dodger Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:18 pm

Nevin Spence should be drafted in Yahoo

by Sin é Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:21 pm

Keith Earls is BOD's first choice backup. He has played most (if not all) his Heineken Cup rugby there. Some of the centre partnerships that he has come up against in the Heineken Cup are Mermoz & Marty (Perp), Luke McAlister (Sale), BOD/D'Arcy/Contempomi, Hook & Bowe, so he should be fairly confident that he can do a job at 13.

In the Welsh Inter. game he played in, he was up against Roberts & Hook. He made 11 tackles and scored 2 tries. BOD made 12 tackles (& missed 2), so its not as though he didn't show up in defense.

The reason why BOD has been played so much is for his captaincy/leadership. POC has been injured for most the year and Kidney had to blood Sexton, so ROG was not an option (even though I'd prefer if ROG wasn't used - the OH has enough to do).

by Sin é Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:36 pm

roddersm wrote:Stand and Aukster. I agree with both of you.

Stand I think we have left it late to look at any other options at centre but I think given the lack of penetration shown by McFadden and Wallace and D'arcy's poor 6N form and subsequent injury I think we have no choice but to try some other options.

One thing I'm certain of after the Scotland game is that we won't break down any top class defence with Wallace and McFadden in midfield.

Certainly from an offencive point of view we can't do any worse by trying Earls, Bowe or Trimble in the centre.

Wallace & McFadden will be fine against Russia, which is probably the only game that BOD & Earls might be rested.

As for trying Earls out at centre - he was fine at fullback* and I don't think he has played there since the Lions. He has been playing plenty of rugby in the centre.

*Up to the England game, all his rugby for Munster was at centre, for Ireland on the wing (4 games) and then he was moved to fullback. He seemed to be able to cope well with being moved around Wink

The reason why Kidney had to persist with Fitz for so long at fullback was because of the injuries - Kearney, Murphy out long term and Bowe & Trimble coming back from injury - thats when McFadden got his chance.

by **rodders** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 2:37 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Nevin Spence should be drafted in

Well I'm glad someone finally brought it up..... Whistle

But hey why put a square peg in a square whole when you can use a round one instead?... Wink

by Standulstermen Wed 10 Aug 2011, 4:10 pm

I would have loved to see Bowe at 13 but its probably too late. I have no issue with Earls going there except that i think he has looked great in the back 3. Either way he starts imo. Will Kidney move BOD to 12 though?

by Sin é Wed 10 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Standulstermen wrote:I would have loved to see Bowe at 13 but its probably too late. I have no issue with Earls going there except that i think he has looked great in the back 3. Either way he starts imo. Will Kidney move BOD to 12 though?

BOD will keep the No. 13 jersey. Bowe got caught out like McFadden at 13 when playing Munster recently at 13. He wasn't great, tbh, but that could have more to do with who was around him.

Just checked the HC playing experience of Bowe, Earls & Trimble over the last 3 seasons (since Bowe went to Os).

At 13: Bowe 6 times; Earls: 17; Trimble: 1.
At 11: Earls 3; Trimble 2.
At 14: Bowe 12; Trimble 17
At 15: Earls 3; Bowe 1.

Earls has by far the most experience of any of them at playing 13 with 17 starts. It should also be borne in mind that he is also well experienced in having a different partner every week, so he should be able to cope.

by **Notch** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 5:15 pm

I actually very much agree with Sin on this point. Yes, go ahead, act stunned.

For me the options at 13 are O'Driscoll, Earls and McFadden. D'Arcy and Bowe could potentially do a job there in an emergency.

by **Notch** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 5:16 pm

I also thin we should start either D'Arcy or Wallace at 12, and right now I would start D'Arcy at 12. I wouldn't move O'Driscoll in if I didn't have to.

by Standulstermen Wed 10 Aug 2011, 5:17 pm

I know he would keep wearing 13 but Earls or ANother would play at 13 in that situation. If D'arce is out then its looks either

Wallace, BOD
BOD, Earls
McFadden, BOD

by **Notch** Wed 10 Aug 2011, 5:21 pm

If D'Arcy and Wallace were out I would play BOD there (at 12), but unless both of those players are injured then I wouldn't move him from 13. I'm not talking about what number he wears. He can wear 46, I still want him to play outside centre.

Also if he is picked at 12 he should blydi wear 12. I mean, come on.

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