France v Ireland, A realistic view

With France v Ireland only a few days away, what can we honestly expect to get from the game?? My heart says we go to France and do a number on them, however my head says this wont be.

Deccie most likely will give us another experimental team, (most likely with the view of winning our two home games and entering the WC on a winning streak), and why not?? He is using these games very well and making the right noises.

The French however have already picked their 30 man squad for the WC and will look to target a big win with their big names on home soil, but with the game being played in Bordeaux it might suit the Irish to be away from Paris.

I fear the best result we can hope for is if our second string can hold what will be a dominate French side to within 10-15 points it will be seen as a decent result for Ireland

Here is the French line up-

FRANCE : Traille – Clerc, Marty, Mermoz, Palisson – (o) Trinh-Duc, (m) Yachvili – Lakafia, Harinordoquy, Dusautoir (cap) – Millo-Chluski, Pierre – Ducalcon, Szarzewski, Marconnet

Remplaçants : Guirado, Poux, Nallet, Bonnaire, Parra, Skrela, Médard

MBT

I'm backing us to lose this weekend but win in Dublin.

That's my thought as well Staggy, and to beat the English with a starting wc 15, can't wait for it now!

Which would be ok but not amazing. 2 wins from the warm up games and a bit of momentum.

Amazing would be winning in France this weekend, that can only be done with a first 15, then they would have to be rested for France at home, and it makes no sense to risk loosening at home

Whats a pity is no away wins though.

Ah look stag, we were a couple of minutes away from beating Scotland with one nailed on starter, a lot can be taken from that, if we can run the French close this weekend it'll be as good as a win and a massive boost to the whole squad.

Stag I'm not even thinking about the Home games yet. I'm not confident about winning this weekend but hopefully we'll see some more effective attacking rugby this week and continue with the excellent defence and solid set piece we had against the Scots.

It's all about the big picture here so although a win would be great I think the performance is the most important thing here.

The backrow and midfield are the two area's I'll watching most closely this weekend and we need to show a lot more penetration and dynamism in attack in these areas.

hughie1986 wrote:Ah look stag, we were a couple of minutes away from beating Scotland with one nailed on starter, a lot can be taken from that, if we can run the French close this weekend it'll be as good as a win and a massive boost to the whole squad.

I don't agree overall but I accept that the narrow margin of defeat is a consolation prize. I'd happily us play like a bag of spanners and get the win rather than the other way around this weekend.

I think Ireland will field close to their first team for this game as will France. Ireland really could do with a win here. I would much prefer an Irish win here than in the game at home as my guess is this Saturday France will field a stronger team than in the Dublin test.

roddersm wrote:Stag I'm not even thinking about the Home games yet. I'm not confident about winning this weekend but hopefully we'll see some more effective attacking rugby this week and continue with the excellent defence and solid set piece we had against the Scots.

It's all about the big picture here so although a win would be great I think the performance is the most important thing here.

The backrow and midfield are the two area's I'll watching most closely this weekend and we need to show a lot more penetration and dynamism in attack in these areas.

The two centers were anonymous last week rodders, your right, and the back row did well enough for a unit who never played together before, so I expect to see a marked improvement in both areas this weekend

I've got a feeling he's going to name a very strong side actually. I'm not ruling out a win. I think a few guys will be retained from last week; maybe Leamy, Wallace- possibly Sexton, Trimble and Kearney. But I expect a whole new, first choice, tight five and the likes of Heaslip, O'Brien, Earls and Bowe to return so... I think we can win. I think it will be tight.

hughie1986 wrote:Ah look stag, we were a couple of minutes away from beating Scotland with one nailed on starter, a lot can be taken from that, if we can run the French close this weekend it'll be as good as a win and a massive boost to the whole squad.

red_stag wrote: I'd happily us play like a bag of spanners and get the win rather than the other way around this weekend.

I don't understand that stag. If we play like a bag of spanners against Australia or SA then we'll be ripped apart.

We need to get the performances right and if so then the results will come. But if we focus too much on the results eventually we'll come unstuck against the better sides.

O'Leary is our nailed on starter I'm assuming. Or is it Leamy?

Surely McCarthy?

red_stag wrote:O'Leary is our nailed on starter I'm assuming. Or is it Leamy?

Sexton stag

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote: I'd happily us play like a bag of spanners and get the win rather than the other way around this weekend.

I don't understand that stag. If we play like a bag of spanners against Australia or SA then we'll be ripped apart.

We need to get the performances right and if so then the results will come. But if we focus too much on the results eventually we'll come unstuck against the better sides.

For me the result is whats important here. Going to France, going to Bordeaux, taking on a team we rarely if ever beat.

Getting a result is MASSIVE. It take pressure off our game in Dublin and allows us to be more performance orientated. If we have another plucky defeat we need a result in Dublin as we can't lose 3 games on the trot.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

hughie1986 wrote:Ah look stag, we were a couple of minutes away from beating Scotland with one nailed on starter, a lot can be taken from that, if we can run the French close this weekend it'll be as good as a win and a massive boost to the whole squad.

I'll smash your back doors in as

hughie1986 wrote:
The two centers were anonymous last week rodders, your right, and the back row did well enough for a unit who never played together before, so I expect to see a marked improvement in both areas this weekend

I though both units did very well in defence Hughie but we need to see a lot more with the ball in hand. It's vital that the backrow (and also the tight 5) are much more effective with their ball carrying and we need to see more line breaks from whoever starts in the 3/4's.

red_stag wrote:

For me the result is whats important here. Going to France, going to Bordeaux, taking on a team we rarely if ever beat.

Getting a result is MASSIVE. It take pressure off our game in Dublin and allows us to be more performance orientated. If we have another plucky defeat we need a result in Dublin as we can't lose 3 games on the trot.

Stag if we win in Bordeaux we'll still be under pressure to win in Dublin otherwise we'll have gone one step forward and two steps back.

I think the most important games to win are the final two home games as we don't want to be going into the WC of the back of a few defeats. However I still feel that the results are not the be all and end all in these games.

Look at SA, they couldn't give a monkey's about getting pasted in the 3N and they'll be a different side come the WC.

If we reach the SF no one will even remember these games.

I'm looking for a big performance here with a marked improvement in attack. Anyway, a good performance gives us a good chance of a victory so that is what I'm hoping for.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote: I'd happily us play like a bag of spanners and get the win rather than the other way around this weekend.

I don't understand that stag. If we play like a bag of spanners against Australia or SA then we'll be ripped apart.

We need to get the performances right and if so then the results will come. But if we focus too much on the results eventually we'll come unstuck against the better sides.

For me the result is whats important here. Going to France, going to Bordeaux, taking on a team we rarely if ever beat.

Getting a result is MASSIVE. It take pressure off our game in Dublin and allows us to be more performance orientated. If we have another plucky defeat we need a result in Dublin as we can't lose 3 games on the trot.

Finally someone talking sense. If we win on Saturday we can rotate a bit in Dublin then full team again v England.

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

For me the result is whats important here. Going to France, going to Bordeaux, taking on a team we rarely if ever beat.

Getting a result is MASSIVE. It take pressure off our game in Dublin and allows us to be more performance orientated. If we have another plucky defeat we need a result in Dublin as we can't lose 3 games on the trot.

Stag if we win in Bordeaux we'll still be under pressure to win in Dublin otherwise we'll have gone one step forward and two steps back.

I think the most important games to win are the final two home games as we don't want to be going into the WC of the back of a few defeats. However I still feel that the results are not the be all and end all in these games.

Look at SA, they couldn't give a monkey's about getting pasted in the 3N and they'll be a different side come the WC.

If we reach the SF no one will even remember these games.

To be fair, South Africa are a completely different side to us in that they know how strong they can be. They've beaten New Zealand away twice in the past 3 years and are World Champions so they have a very different context to what we're in.

hughie1986 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

hughie1986 wrote:Ah look stag, we were a couple of minutes away from beating Scotland with one nailed on starter, a lot can be taken from that, if we can run the French close this weekend it'll be as good as a win and a massive boost to the whole squad.

I'll smash your back doors in as

I think you're missing the prefix "un-" from the title of the article, ye worum!!

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

For me the result is whats important here. Going to France, going to Bordeaux, taking on a team we rarely if ever beat.

Getting a result is MASSIVE. It take pressure off our game in Dublin and allows us to be more performance orientated. If we have another plucky defeat we need a result in Dublin as we can't lose 3 games on the trot.

Stag if we win in Bordeaux we'll still be under pressure to win in Dublin otherwise we'll have gone one step forward and two steps back.

I think the most important games to win are the final two home games as we don't want to be going into the WC of the back of a few defeats. However I still feel that the results are not the be all and end all in these games.

Look at SA, they couldn't give a monkey's about getting pasted in the 3N and they'll be a different side come the WC.

If we reach the SF no one will even remember these games.

SA will be fielding their strongest team in the last two Tri nations games. They also were probably the most over played 1-15 in world rugby last year and needed a rest. I feel PDV left it a little late though to give them their rest and they might suffer as a result. Mind you this SA team seem to be able to come together at very short notice and hit the ground running ala the first Lions test before which they hadn't played together for a while.

roddersm wrote:Stag if we win in Bordeaux we'll still be under pressure to win in Dublin otherwise we'll have gone one step forward and two steps back.

No. Disagree. Then its about performance. The line becomes how we have gone and won in France, not done it in years. A wounded French team came to Dublin and had something to prove. Pity about result but we've proven we can travel to daunting places and win and now turned in another top performance.

Everyone feels good, we have a big prize and if we beat England its all gravy

We can all agree that the defense was good last week, and that’s with players like Ronan, McCarthy and McFadden who aren’t used to the Irish training setup. That confirms to me, as if it needed confirming that Les Kiss is worth his weight in gold to this team. if we do put out a strong side, even if it’s not our strongest in every position, I would expect a win.

Mickado wrote:We can all agree that the defense was good last week, and that’s with players like Ronan, McCarthy and McFadden who aren’t used to the Irish training setup. That confirms to me, as if it needed confirming that Les Kiss is worth his weight in gold to this team. if we do put out a strong side, even if it’s not our strongest in every position, I would expect a win.

Big call and I like it.

I also believe we can and should win. I think we are putting France up on a pedestal a bit. You're never more vulnerable than in your first game of the season.

I think it would be much more detrimental to confidence to lose at home than away and also having a run into the RWC of two wins in a row would feel better than win-lose-win.

My wish-list is:

More creative attack
Same fantastic defence
See SOB at 7
See more of Sexton-Wallace
Murphy or Jones or Earls at 15
Scrum parity
Ryan get more time at lock (bench or starter)


A win is desireable but would be a bonus
At home a win would be not demanded but not far off and definitely I'd want something very close to our first XV playing france in the Aviva.

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

And its France. we just dont know if these guys will turn up. They may well still be wishing they were on the beach.

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

Seriously what do you expect to happen in the Connacht game?

MBTGOG wrote:

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

Seriously what do you expect to happen in the Connacht game?

Similar team to the one that started against Scotland, slightly weaker in the backs.

MBTGOG wrote:

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

Seriously what do you expect to happen in the Connacht game?

Agree it isn't a warm up game IMO.

You're expecting a lot Pete,especially since wedon't know what team will be put out. SOB playing at 7 is a waste of time.

I expect our defence to be pretty much rock solid again. Hopefully our backs are given a bit more room to work their stuff, and against a French defence which is sketch at times,I'm expecting some tries. I would be hoping to see Reddan or Stringer getting game time, I don't think Murray will make the plane.

For us to put out a very second sting team which is experimentation but as we worked out in the Scot game may not tell us as much as we'd expect if our pack can't give the backs good ball (although they won't be up against an international side)

Not saying it's a warm up game in the same way the others are but lets say McCarthy gets game time in it and so does McFadden.
Then lets say Darcy doesn't make it and Ryan gets injured. Suddenly I will be glad that these two got 80mins even if it was against Connacht.

I am hoping for a lot yes, apparently SOB will be playing 7 though. Some poster mentioned yesterday that he said it to them. I'll try and find the article it was in. Think it was Feadh.

MBTGOG wrote:

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

Seriously what do you expect to happen in the Connacht game?

What do you expect from it MBTGOG?

Personally I don't see the merit in it at all. The only possible good that can come out of it is that it could provide game time to the likes of D'Arcy, Flannery, Ferris, etc. i.e. guys who are in a race against time due to injury.

Who do you play them with then though? Why risk guys unnecessarily? How can you test any combinations or moves when 10 or more of the guys playing have ZERO chance of going to the world cup. Also, would it not be better to have those 10+ no-hopers playing in preseason games with their provinces instead. Likewise, if a player needs extra gametime release them for a preseason game like was done with Geordan Murphy.

I really don't see the need for that game.

Thomond wrote:You're expecting a lot Pete,especially since wedon't know what team will be put out. SOB playing at 7 is a waste of time.

If Wallace gets injured, O'Brien is the closest thing we have to a like to like replacement. Right now Jennings is not available and I don't think he will travel anyway so it's really important O'Brien gets gametime at 7 this summer.

MMC wrote:

MBTGOG wrote:

This is our last chance to try something (other than Connacht game)

Seriously what do you expect to happen in the Connacht game?

What do you expect from it MBTGOG?

Personally I don't see the merit in it at all. The only possible good that can come out of it is that it could provide game time to the likes of D'Arcy, Flannery, Ferris, etc. i.e. guys who are in a race against time due to injury.

Who do you play them with then though? Why risk guys unnecessarily? How can you test any combinations or moves when 10 or more of the guys playing have ZERO chance of going to the world cup. Also, would it not be better to have those 10+ no-hopers playing in preseason games with their provinces instead. Likewise, if a player needs extra gametime release them for a preseason game like was done with Geordan Murphy.

I really don't see the need for that game.

I wouldn't be surprised if this game was set up specifically for Ferris.

MMC-

Court, Horan and Stringer were all released for this weekend also.

Good idea about re-introducing Darcy and 1F in it, hadn't thought about that, could act as a stepping stone

I am glad we are playing the game because it gives the players who if necessary will fill in for injuries more time in the Irish set up and more minutes

As an outsider i can see Ireland winning all their remaining warm ups. None of the teams (including my beloved England) should hold any fears for your first team. All depends on selections i suppose (stating the obvious!).

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:For us to put out a very second sting team which is experimentation but as we worked out in the Scot game may not tell us as much as we'd expect if our pack can't give the backs good ball (although they won't be up against an international side)

Not saying it's a warm up game in the same way the others are but lets say McCarthy gets game time in it and so does McFadden.
Then lets say Darcy doesn't make it and Ryan gets injured. Suddenly I will be glad that these two got 80mins even if it was against Connacht.

I am hoping for a lot yes, apparently SOB will be playing 7 though. Some poster mentioned yesterday that he said it to them. I'll try and find the article it was in. Think it was Feadh.

Presume that means Ferris will be playing 6?

Leisnterbaby-

It would make a lot of sense. Also Darcy in at 12 if ready too. It will be rolling subs I assume. Tickets are only a fiver anyone going?

Notch,Ferris started his career at 7 did he not? He has played there for Ireland before,particularly at the start of his career.

Thomond wrote:Notch,Ferris started his career at 7 did he not? He has played there for Ireland before,particularly at the start of his career.

Ferris is flexible enough to play all three backrow positions, but I feel O'Brien is a better fit for 7 than him. Really it doesn't matter which way they wear the shirt numbers, if Ferris and O'Brien start together Ferris will do a lot of clearing out, mauling and grafting and O'Brien will do a lot of ball-carrying, support play and link work.

Notch wrote:

Thomond wrote:You're expecting a lot Pete,especially since wedon't know what team will be put out. SOB playing at 7 is a waste of time.

If Wallace gets injured, O'Brien is the closest thing we have to a like to like replacement. Right now Jennings is not available and I don't think he will travel anyway so it's really important O'Brien gets gametime at 7 this summer.

True dat! OBrien had been awarded MOTM at 7 in both the ML and Hcup this season. He has also won MOTM at 6 and 8 in the Hcup. Suffice to say he can play anywhere in the backrow even if 6 is his best position.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Leisnterbaby-

It would make a lot of sense. Also Darcy in at 12 if ready too. It will be rolling subs I assume. Tickets are only a fiver anyone going?

What date is that game again??

Hughie its the night before France game in Dublin.

SOB while a good player doesn't do a lot of rucking for me,he should be doing his job first ball carrying comes after that.