England Team for MS

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Johnson makes 13 changes in team to face Wales 11 August 2011

England Team to face Wales
Player Club
15 Ben Foden Northampton Saints
14 Chris Ashton Northampton Saints
13 Mike Tindall (C) Gloucester Rugby
12 Shontayne Hape London Irish
11 Mark Cueto Sale Sharks
10 Toby Flood Leicester Tigers
9 Richard Wigglesworth Saracens
1 Alex Corbisiero London Irish
2 Steve Thompson London Wasps
3 Dan Cole Leicester Tigers
4 Louis Deacon Leicester Tigers
5 Courtney Lawes Northampton Saints
6 Tom Wood Northampton Saints
7 Hendrie Fourie Sale Sharks
8 Nick Easter Harlequins
Replacements
Player Club
16 Lee Mears Bath Rugby
17 Matt Stevens Saracens
18 Tom Palmer Stade Francais
19 James Haskell Ricoh Black Rams
20 Danny Care Harlequins
21 Charlie Hodgson Saracens
22 Matt Banahan Bath Rugby


Corbisiero and Cueto the only survivors from last weekend's win against Wales
Tindall returns and takes the captaincy

England Team Manager Martin Johnson has handed the captaincy to Mike Tindall ahead of this weekend’s clash with Wales in Cardiff. Capped 70 times for his country, the Gloucester centre, who first led England at the Millennium Stadium in this year’s RBS 6 Nations, is one of 13 changes made to the starting XV that secured a 23-19 victory over Wales at Twickenham last weekend.

Only Alex Corbisiero and Mark Cueto start for a consecutive week as Johnson rotates his squad ahead of Rugby World Cup selection on August 22. Richard Wigglesworth gets the nod at number nine, partnering Toby Flood in a back line which otherwise replicates that which started all but one of England’s 2011 RBS 6 Nations matches.

Northampton Saints flanker Tom Wood, who won his first cap in England’s 26-19 win over Wales back in February, joins Hendre Fourie and Nick Easter in a back row starting together for the first time. Fourie collects his second England start and wins his first cap away from home.

Looking ahead to the game Martin Johnson said: “Last weekend’s match was hugely competitive and we expect more of the same as we prepare to travel to the Millennium Stadium. We took a lot out of Saturday’s game and this weekend gives the selected players their opportunity and a chance for us to improve our overall performance.”

Actually i think they would balance very well. Wood is a very different player Croft.
Croft players a little wider or his speed gets him to the break dwon quick.
Wood likes to play in the middle of things...on the floor etc.

With Haskell, Lawes Hartley etc making the hard yards..

THe lineout would be strong aswell.

dilema over the front row

1.Stevens
2.Hartley
3.Cole

All under 30 and there's another RWC in that line up (two more for Hartley and Cole), all mobile and that would do damage in the scrum and around the park.

Marler struggles in the scrum and with his temper, Corbisiero vanishes at international level. They are props that need more experience at AP level, Saxons should be bringing them on.

GeordieFalcon wrote:PropDavid

Next 6n team could look someting like

1 Corbs / Marler
2 Hartley
3 Cole / Stevens
4 Palmer
5 Lawes
6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Haskell

9 Youngs / Care/ Simpson
10 Flood
11 Banahan
12 Allen
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

I wouldnt forsee HUGE changes...the actual team is pretty young as it is.

Only really the centres needing big changes and dilema over the front row.

Haskell wont be available unless he rips up his club contracts. I reckon Easter will be retained for a bit. There will be a lot of retirements , he might even end up a temporary capatin whilst they rebuild the side.
Tindall, Wilko, Moody, Sheridan(?) , Shaw, Deacon (back problems), Thompson, plus probably Cueto + Flutey + Mears and maybe Hape will be the ones making their international swansongs at the world cup. Thats possibly a third of the squad and third of the first team.

However the first XV would probably remain full of guys in this world cup squad.

I am actually very excited to see Fourie on Saturday. I think he may give England a harder defensive edge and sort out some of the problems at the breakdown.

I'd be happy to see him on the plane to NZ - if Moody's injury remains a problem, a back row of Croft, Fourie, and Easter/Haskell has a superb balance.

Deacon (back problems),

Has stated they are fine and he's hoping to continue playing for a few more years yet. A well received interview in the Mercury. Certainly a massive boost for Tigers who really do need him.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-lock-Louis-Deacon-hoping-banish/story-13055299-detail/story.html

Good news then. Mind Ellis said a few thngs like that too, but I hope it has been sorted.

I am very sad for Robshaw was hoping to see him for this game, and why is Sharples not in the team?

I know their is another game to come so maybe MJ issaving the likes of Robshaw, Sharples, Tualaghi, and Monye for the last game before heading of to the RWC.

Regards this week's game looking at bothe teams England do look the stronger of the 2, Why oh Why as Gatland chosen to play Hook at 15 I dont know.

Very supriised the Gatland as chosen Henson,this week rather than last week, surely this game is a must win game for Wales, with Henson not playing mutch rugby in the last 2 years would thought that he would be on the bench rather than starting.

Looking forward to the game, expect England to win to be honest.

yappysnap wrote:More gutted that he's stuck with Cueto, where are Sharples or Monye?! Not even on the bench ffs!

And you can guarantee he'll be playing that back three against Ireland as well so that's their chances out the window.

Seriously Cueto again? It is so depressing.

Sharples will be on the plane I think, he'll be starting against Ireland and MJ's just checking to see if Cueto can implement a gameplan at the second time of asking, Corbs is still in because MJ wants to see him scrum with Thompson as hooker.

I think Cueto's supping in the last chance saloon here.

I agree, I think Cueto is playing for his place and that Sharples may well be on the plane.

I'd like to have seen Flutey start at 12, but understand why Hape is being given game time.

Not a bad side. I like the backrow because I rate Fourie. I think Corbisero is playing because Sheridan isn't available. Seeing as England think Stevens is a TH (risky, as it's only a matter of time until refs twig that he doesn't push straight) then I think he may even be first choice at the WC. Wilson is mainly a TH and hasn't done enough to go to the WC as 1st choice LH.

Sam I'm not sure why you are so down on Corbs, I noticed that Eddie Butler in the Observer thought he was one of England's best players last weekend.

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Next 6n team could look someting like

1 Corbs / Marler
2 Hartley
3 Cole / Stevens
4 Palmer
5 Lawes
6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Haskell

9 Youngs / Care/ Simpson
10 Flood
11 Banahan
12 Allen
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

Aren't Palmer and Haskell ineligible? I'd expect Easter to play, and one of Deacon, Attwood and Kitchener.

And I don't think there is any chance of Allen playing 12 for England whilst MJ is in charge. I think it will still be Hape or Flutey, although if Saracens actually try passing the ball next season then Barritt might have a chance.

"Haskell wont be available unless he rips up his club contracts."

Ah i forgot about his little trip away. Well Sonny Bill has aparently ripped his up...so If Haskell is given the 8 spot he might rethink?

Prob not though .....

Maybe Guest or Fearns etc can earn the position then.

Why on earth would Cueto suddenly be out of the squad altogther when he has consistently started for England when available for the last couple of years? Johnsons never dropped him from the side, now you think he wouldnt even be in a second team???
If they wre seriously considering Sharples they wouldve given him more than a few minutes. The final WC squad is announced befor the Ireland game as mentioned in previous posts, its too late to look at him then. Monye hasnt even been given a sypmathy cap.

Cueto is playing now because hes short of game time, and because they want to test the first choice backline together. The fact that Monye and Sharples arent even on the bench screams that they arent going not that they are.

Cueto would have to pretty much explode and parts of him get lost for him not to go to the worldcup. You might not like Cueto as a player but really I dont know what planet some of you inhabit.

but isnt it on record that MJ said that everyone would get a start? - I still wouldnt be surprised to see Monye in the mix come the Ireland match or even being on the plane

lostinwales wrote:but isnt it on record that MJ said that everyone would get a start?

No. I'd be very surprised at least.

Come the Ireland game, there will be 12 players who haven't had a start, but the 30 will have been announced by then. Do we really expect that all 12 who haven't started yet will be in the 30?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Why on earth would Cueto suddenly be out of the squad altogther when he has consistently started for England when available for the last couple of years? Johnsons never dropped him from the side, now you think he wouldnt even be in a second team???
If they wre seriously considering Sharples they wouldve given him more than a few minutes. The final WC squad is announced befor the Ireland game as mentioned in previous posts, its too late to look at him then. Monye hasnt even been given a sypmathy cap.

Cueto is playing now because hes short of game time, and because they want to test the first choice backline together. The fact that Monye and Sharples arent even on the bench screams that they arent going not that they are.

Cueto would have to pretty much explode and parts of him get lost for him not to go to the worldcup. You might not like Cueto as a player but really I dont know what planet some of you inhabit.

Not the planet Seabiscuit, clearly.

Monye definitely wont be going, I think that's a stone cold certainty, but Sharples is in the mix for sure and if I really wanted to test a potential WC backline I'd test it against the only team to beat England in this years 6N. I think Cueto has something to prove, it's not just about "gametime" it's about being able to turn it on when it matters and he hasn't been that convincing for a while.

Cueto's dependable, solid and experienced, he'll now get the chance to perform with a backline he's had plenty of gametime with going back to last years AI's, he could be excused for being ineffectual last weekend but this Saturday there'll be no excuses for not putting his hand up as he should be perfectly familiar with 6 of the backs he's playing with.

I'm not sure he'll explode, but he's got to do something.

We'll see.

Im willing to bet my reputation as the most handosme man on 606v2 that Cueto goes to the world cup unless injured or suspended.
In your mind he has somthing to prove, in Martin Johnsons hes been his first choice since he first called him into the side. Charlie Sharples has had the ball in his hands twice in an Allblacks shirt, dos that make him a threat to the guy whos played 27 games under Johnson?
Which do you think is more likely to go? Its not impossible it could be both, but Cueto will go. If Sharples goes it would be for Armitage, but since Armitage played well and was given a start (suggesting he was ahead in the pecking order) that would be a suprise.
Aside from the injured Youngs this is Englands first choice backline.

GeordieFalcon wrote:"Haskell wont be available unless he rips up his club contracts."

Ah i forgot about his little trip away. Well Sonny Bill has aparently ripped his up...so If Haskell is given the 8 spot he might rethink?

Prob not though .....

Maybe Guest or Fearns etc can earn the position then.

Isnt Haskell going to Japan for a season, then I thought he had signed a pre-agreement to return to Wasps for the following season.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im willing to bet my reputation as the most handosme man on 606v2 that Cueto goes to the world cup unless injured or suspended.
In your mind he has somthing to prove, in Martin Johnsons hes been his first choice since he first called him into the side. Charlie Sharples has had the ball in his hands twice in an Allblacks shirt, dos that make him a threat to the guy whos played 27 games under Johnson?
Which do you think is more likely to go? Its not impossible it could be both, but Cueto will go. If Sharples goes it would be for Armitage, but since Armitage played well and was given a start (suggesting he was ahead in the pecking order) that would be a suprise.
Aside from the injured Youngs this is Englands first choice backline.

Other than the comment about being the most hansome man on 606v2, I agree with all the above. MJ likes Cueto for the stability he gives to the back 3, and will continue to pick him through the RWC if available. There were only really 2 spots up for grabs in the back 5 backs, between the 4 of Armitage, Tuillagi, Sharples and Monye, and given their performances last week I think Armitage and Tuillagi have nailed those.

Aren't Palmer and Haskell ineligible? I'd expect Easter to play, and one of Deacon, Attwood and Kitchener.

England allowed themselves a loop hole that allows a foreign based player to be called up in exceptional circumstances. Basically allows Wilko and Palmer to continue playing. Should Palmer opt for another French based contract after the RWC he might find himself out in the cold though. Not only would I expect Easter to play post RWC I think he'll probabley be captain.

propdavid_london wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"Haskell wont be available unless he rips up his club contracts."

Ah i forgot about his little trip away. Well Sonny Bill has aparently ripped his up...so If Haskell is given the 8 spot he might rethink?

Prob not though .....

Maybe Guest or Fearns etc can earn the position then.

Isnt Haskell going to Japan for a season, then I thought he had signed a pre-agreement to return to Wasps for the following season.

Yes but whilst hes not based in England and fully available for all training camps he wont be selected for the national side. Therefor at the next 6 nations he will not be the number 8 unless he is able to fly around the world for each training camp and game.
If/when he comes back to England I fully expect him to be in the EPS, and posibly be the England 8.

Most likely Easter will continue after the world cup as a stop gap, its actual even more liekley he'll continue to be selected whilst Haskels away if thats who tehy see as his long term replacement. England wont want to lose all its experienced players in one go.

I'm not on the WUM here, but I'm interested to to know how English fans thought Tuilagi went last week. My recollection is that, apart from taking his try well (which wasn't a superhuman effort, let's be honest here) he didn't do that much. I remember him being bumped off in the tackle in the first half and wrapped up by Jamie Roberts in the second.

Did you see enough in his performance to think he should go to New Zealand?

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Aren't Palmer and Haskell ineligible? I'd expect Easter to play, and one of Deacon, Attwood and Kitchener.

England allowed themselves a loop hole that allows a foreign based player to be called up in exceptional circumstances. Basically allows Wilko and Palmer to continue playing. Should Palmer opt for another French based contract after the RWC he might find himself out in the cold though. Not only would I expect Easter to play post RWC I think he'll probabley be captain.

Wilkos contarct had the releases written in didnt it , id assume that woiukld count under the loophole, but its pretty obvious he will retire after the WC regardless. Does Palmer fit the exceptional circunstances? I cant see how. They may give him dispensation because his contract was signed before the announcement, or if he can get a garauntee of release. However I suspect the clampdown came exactly because they gave upt the legal battle with the french clubs claiming that the eps contracts outweigh the frecnh club ones, and the french clubs will be hard about player release in the same way PRL are. I guess Palmer is an opene question.
With Haskell if hes halfway round the world I cant see how they can find a solution, they will have to exclude him.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I'm not on the WUM here, but I'm interested to to know how English fans thought Tuilagi went last week. My recollection is that, apart from taking his try well (which wasn't a superhuman effort, let's be honest here) he didn't do that much. I remember him being bumped off in the tackle in the first half and wrapped up by Jamie Roberts in the second.

Did you see enough in his performance to think he should go to New Zealand?

Comparing his performance to existing England centres then yes he should. Remember we are starting from a remarkably low baseline for comparison!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im willing to bet my reputation as the most handosme man on 606v2 that Cueto goes to the world cup unless injured or suspended.
In your mind he has somthing to prove, in Martin Johnsons hes been his first choice since he first called him into the side. Charlie Sharples has had the ball in his hands twice in an Allblacks shirt, dos that make him a threat to the guy whos played 27 games under Johnson?
Which do you think is more likely to go? Its not impossible it could be both, but Cueto will go. If Sharples goes it would be for Armitage, but since Armitage played well and was given a start (suggesting he was ahead in the pecking order) that would be a suprise.
Aside from the injured Youngs this is Englands first choice backline.

I wasn't the poster that said Cueto shouldn't go, but I do feel he's under threat and needs to perform in Cardiff tomorrow.

I think Cueto has to prove he has something more to offer than just being dependable, yes. MJ probably doesn't think so, I woiuld agree with that.

Assuming that the 16/14 split is chosen I can still see both Cueto and Sharples going as there is a rumour on the mill that they will only be taking 2 specialist 10's, personally if I were to sacrifice a half-back to make way for an extra 3/4 pick I'd drop a SH and use Foden as cover.

That would allow:

Armitage - FB + wing cover
Ashton
Banahan - wing + centre cover
Cueto
Foden - FB + SH cover
Sharples
Tindall
Tuilagi
Flutey or Hape

Alternatively, MJ could take just the 4 specialist half-backs and take Flutey and Hape using Flutey to cover 10. When was the last time a team had 2 9's or 10's injured during a world cup? Does anyone else think 6 half-backs is too many?

PJHolybloke wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im willing to bet my reputation as the most handosme man on 606v2 that Cueto goes to the world cup unless injured or suspended.
In your mind he has somthing to prove, in Martin Johnsons hes been his first choice since he first called him into the side. Charlie Sharples has had the ball in his hands twice in an Allblacks shirt, dos that make him a threat to the guy whos played 27 games under Johnson?
Which do you think is more likely to go? Its not impossible it could be both, but Cueto will go. If Sharples goes it would be for Armitage, but since Armitage played well and was given a start (suggesting he was ahead in the pecking order) that would be a suprise.
Aside from the injured Youngs this is Englands first choice backline.

I wasn't the poster that said Cueto shouldn't go, but I do feel he's under threat and needs to perform in Cardiff tomorrow.

I think Cueto has to prove he has something more to offer than just being dependable, yes. MJ probably doesn't think so, I woiuld agree with that.

Assuming that the 16/14 split is chosen I can still see both Cueto and Sharples going as there is a rumour on the mill that they will only be taking 2 specialist 10's, personally if I were to sacrifice a half-back to make way for an extra 3/4 pick I'd drop a SH and use Foden as cover.

That would allow:

Armitage - FB + wing cover
Ashton
Banahan - wing + centre cover
Cueto
Foden - FB + SH cover
Sharples
Tindall
Tuilagi
Flutey or Hape

Alternatively, MJ could take just the 4 specialist half-backs and take Flutey and Hape using Flutey to cover 10. When was the last time a team had 2 9's or 10's injured during a world cup? Does anyone else think 6 half-backs is too many?

I'm starting to think it is a bit much actually. If someone has a world cup ending injury then you can fly out a replacement. I suppose the arguement for 3 SH and 3FH is that they only seem superfluous until you need them.

When was the last time a team had 2 9's or 10's injured during a world cup?

If that happened you'd send your second choice or most seriously injured half backs back and call up replacements.

The 14 backs are likely to be;

9: Youngs, Care
10: Flood, Wilkinson
Centres: Flutey (covering 10), Hape, Tindall, Manu
Wingers: Cueto, Ashton, Banahan, A N Other
FBs: Foden (covering 9), Armitage

Wigglesworth could put a fly in the ointment with another good performance though and he has played 10 before so might go as a third 9 that can cover 10 as well.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I'm not on the WUM here, but I'm interested to to know how English fans thought Tuilagi went last week. My recollection is that, apart from taking his try well (which wasn't a superhuman effort, let's be honest here) he didn't do that much. I remember him being bumped off in the tackle in the first half and wrapped up by Jamie Roberts in the second.

Did you see enough in his performance to think he should go to New Zealand?

I think the important thing is that he didn't look out of place. He took his try well, good support running and a bit of strength and speed to finish. He didn't have an amazing debut and faded a bit, but considering how young he is and that he was fitting into a side testing new combinations I think he did fine. There's plenty to see from his club performances that he's got a lot to offer. Obviously internationals are another level but he doesn't lack in confidence either.

As said above, there's not an embarrassment of riches in competition (not in the EPS at any rate) so he will almost certainly go. I'd like him to. He's certainly added a new element to the England side and you could hear the excitment in the crowd when he did get the ball.

SafeAsMilk, he certainly looks quite a prospect. This World Cup might be too soon for him, but there's only one way to find out!

That's right luckless - with the English centres situation being what it is, it doesn't feel like a huge gamble to take a young, relatively untested (at that level) talent for that position!

He'll gain a lot from going too.

I think he may well be on the bench for the Ireland game.

I thought Manu had a solid though unspectacular debut. He took the ball over the gainline, brought the wingers into the game and worked hard in defence and attack covering a lot of ground. There were a couple of mistakes and he didn't set the world alight but he is only 20 and he was up against a talented Welsh midfield, he did also get what was probabley the winning try. He certainly did a better job that Flutey at 12 and Banahan when he went to 13 after Manu was subbed.

Safe as Milk - thats tough throwing him in against D'Arcy and BOD. Although, cant get a much better testing ground. Baptism of Fire for Tuilagi if selected there.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

When was the last time a team had 2 9's or 10's injured during a world cup?

If that happened you'd send your second choice or most seriously injured half backs back and call up replacements.

The 14 backs are likely to be;

9: Youngs, Care
10: Flood, Wilkinson
Centres: Flutey (covering 10), Hape, Tindall, Manu
Wingers: Cueto, Ashton, Banahan, A N Other
FBs: Foden (covering 9), Armitage

Wigglesworth could put a fly in the ointment with another good performance though and he has played 10 before so might go as a third 9 that can cover 10 as well.

Im not confortable with a starting player covering SH, for me its just too risky that Foden and the SH could both easily get injured. I think Wigglesworth will go but Hodgson won't. I feel sorry for Hodgson as he is a good player and over his career has deserved to go to a RWC.

If they do go one short on the halfbacks then yeah more likley Hodgson than Wiggleworsth. They wouldnt have started Wigglesworth if he wasnt coming, and he can cover 10 at a real push if theres a last minute injury during the tournament.
If they do do that theres a chance for Sharples, but nothing in MJs selections show hes that interested in taking him, or certainly that hes pressuring Cueto in the starting side. This is entirely an invention of the internet and wishful thinking.
Ashton,Foden, Armitage, Cueto, Banahan is a lot of options for the back 3 with emergency cover form Tuilagi.

If its 14 backs Id expect
Youngs Care Wiggs
Flood Wilko
Hape Tindall Flutey Tuilagi
Aston Foden Cueto Banahan Armitage

Hodgson may keep out either Flutey or Tuilagi as Banahan covers both center positions as well as wing.

I really dont see where Sharples gets in on that. I really dont see where pressure on Cueto is coming from other than internet perception. Lets face it the knives have been out for him from before he was even selected by Johnson.

propdavid_london wrote:Safe as Milk - thats tough throwing him in against D'Arcy and BOD. Although, cant get a much better testing ground. Baptism of Fire for Tuilagi if selected there.

I did say on the bench!

One of the Strongest England squads recently,hopefully they perform better than last weeks team.

Looks like Ashton is a doubt for Saturday

flyhalffactory wrote:Looks like Ashton is a doubt for Saturday

Yeah, I just saw that on the Beeb. Hopefully he'll be ok.

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

When was the last time a team had 2 9's or 10's injured during a world cup?

If that happened you'd send your second choice or most seriously injured half backs back and call up replacements.

The 14 backs are likely to be;

9: Youngs, Care
10: Flood, Wilkinson
Centres: Flutey (covering 10), Hape, Tindall, Manu
Wingers: Cueto, Ashton, Banahan, A N Other
FBs: Foden (covering 9), Armitage

Wigglesworth could put a fly in the ointment with another good performance though and he has played 10 before so might go as a third 9 that can cover 10 as well.

Im not confortable with a starting player covering SH, for me its just too risky that Foden and the SH could both easily get injured. I think Wigglesworth will go but Hodgson won't. I feel sorry for Hodgson as he is a good player and over his career has deserved to go to a RWC.

But you'd have your back-up SH on the bench anyway, a fatlad, the-one-in-the-middle, 9, 10, 2 big blokes and another girl. That's your bench, tis law - almost.

1 Alex Corbisiero/Matt Stevens
2 Dylan Hartley
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Courtney Lawes/Tom Palmer
6 Tom Croft
7 Tom Wood
8 James Haskell
9 Ben Youngs
10 Tobias Flood
11 Mark Cueto
12 Jonny Wilkinson
13 Mike Tindall
14 Chris Ashton/Matt Banahan
15 Ben Foden/Delon Armitage

Best England team I reckon, could only think of 4 subs though because I don't watch your players that often. I think the team for saturday is quite limited and would struggle in the RWC KO stages.

Also why is Haskell attatched to these Ricoh Black Rams that I've not heard of?

nottins_jones wrote:I think the team for saturday is quite limited and would struggle in the RWC KO stages.

Maybe, but on Saturday England are playing a side who probably won't be in the RWC KO stages. So no drama there.

nottins_jones wrote:Also why is Haskell attatched to these Ricoh Black Rams that I've not heard of?

They're a Japanese side. Surely you must be following Mr Haskell's latest adventures?

No I don't. I was under the impression he was re-signing with Stade. Perhaps it fell through then. Be careful your words don't come back to bite you as there may be the case in which England fail to beat a team who probably won't be in the RWC KO stages. What do you think of that England team I put down?

nottins_jones wrote:No I don't. I was under the impression he was re-signing with Stade. Perhaps it fell through then. Be careful your words don't come back to bite you as there may be the case in which England fail to beat a team who probably won't be in the RWC KO stages. What do you think of that England team I put down?

I liked it NJ, would rather give JW a run out at 12 than either of the two incumbents as it's an area England are looking pretty desperate in and have been for some time. I noticed MJ was quoted as saying something like "it's not what Hape is seen to be doing at IC, it's the work he gets through that goes unnoticed that makes the difference, and many people (i.e. "us") don't know what to look for."

That's interesting, if it was a TH prop he was talking about I'd accept that all day long (they don't know themselves half the time), but name me one succesful team there's ever been that's had a 12 that doesn't get noticed for his craft MJ. If it's true that he said that, it's just too condescending for words.

I really don't feel good about England's chances tomorrow NJ.

Haskell has resigned for Stade but has a short term deal to play in Japan in order to raise his brand-awareness.

re-signed for Stade.

I think it's a strong England team, they can do just about enough to win like last week and in the 6 Nations.

However I suspect the clampdown came exactly because they gave upt the legal battle with the french clubs claiming that the eps contracts outweigh the frecnh club ones, and the french clubs will be hard about player release in the same way PRL are

There was never any problem with Palmer's release. Haskell was the one that caused all the problems.

propdavid_london wrote:Safe as Milk - thats tough throwing him in against D'Arcy and BOD. Although, cant get a much better testing ground. Baptism of Fire for Tuilagi if selected there.

Tuilagi has played there against BOD and played well. HC quarter final this year. Atmosphere there was no less fierce than it will be in 11 days time.

PJHolybloke wrote:

Haskell has resigned for Stade but has a short term deal to play in Japan in order to raise his brand-awareness.

re-signed for Stade.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/13696098.stm