Englands Backrow against Wales the most balanced since 2003

Just looking at the Backrow england are putting out today against Wales and personally i think it looks like the most balanced backrow since the days of dayglo, Hill and Back. so we have

Fourie
Easter
Wood

To some this backrow only has one quality player..Wood, but to me all three are excellent, albeit unpopular with alot of the twickenham faithful.

In Easter you have a leader with an amazing rugby brain, bear strength, awesome in the tight phases, great hands and a cool head...for almost all the england games I have seen this guy in he has been brilliant....he does however lack pace for which the flash harry supporters will never forgive him....however by 2003 dayglo also lacked pace...he still was a quality 8.

In 7 Hendre Fourie we have an out and out 7, something we have lacked in the england side for many years, this guy has been schooled by Neil Back in the dark arts of fetching, while at the same time has apparently been genetically spliced with an ork on steroids.... Shrek is quality, he tackles hard, works all day and at 6ft and almost 17st he can carry better than backy ever could. Being an aging saffa from the lower english divisons, like many, i was never that excited by this chap playing for england...however whenever he comes on he has been immense...watch this space.

At 6 we have Tom Wood, the 2011 Aviva Premiership Player of the Season... we all know what this chap can do having made such an impact during the six nations...from tom croft being the future of englands 6 shirt this lad popped up and now the fans and coaches are divided as who to play. He lacks the wingers pace of Tom croft, but he is no slouch, he is however an abrasive son of a b**ch, he is an out an out six...smashing rucks, defending the 10 channel, carrying hard, tackling all day...sheer class.

This backrow does not consist of an 8 and two 6's, or even three 6's.......but a 6, 7, 8... a well balanced unit, all with a job to do and the skills to do it well.....I believe if I were choosing these players in Ea Rugby 2008 dropping Fourie's name into the last backrow slot would result in all three players lighting up green....we have a combination !!!!!!

Balanced? Maybe. Good enough - we will see.

Back row balance is relative and depends on the platform the front 5 can provide.

+1 Tidy

Personally, I think Croft at 6 and Wood at 7 is your best option with Moody currently out. I always thought Haskell's best position was no.8, he had a very impressive 6 Nations and I was suprised at the amount of pace he had in his boots.

I'm pleased that Fourie is going to get some good game time today, if ever a team needs a fetcher it's England in Cardiff.

Moody makes himself a nuisance at every opportunity, but securing loose ball or competing for it at the breakdown is not his speciality, the amount of ball England turnover is in proportion to this.

Easter is a pure 8 and a good leader, I think Haskell has a bit more to offer at 8 than he's shown so far, but if Easter performs today he could cement his place.

Wood is a quality 6 and definitely balances out the backrow equation, he'll have his work cutout today but noone can knock his work ethic nor his ability to make his mark on a game.

I expect all 3 will be severely tested, but England have the more dynamic tight 5 and if they can assert themselves early on, the back row will have a much better time of it - someone needs to keep Warburton quiet, he's on fire after last weeks performance.

Agree Sirtidy, the most balanced back row England have had in a long time, not up to 2003's Holy Trinity, but as balanced perhaps?

6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Haskell

has a better look to it.

But with Haskell off jetsetting we need to find another young 8....

I wouldn't mind seeing Croft, Wood, Robshaw.
Or even have wood at 8 in a few years.

oh dear-the epistle by pjholy is hilarious in the aftermath of todays game-may I ask ------------what back row?

Like I said: balanced maybe, good enough......err. No.

I thought England totally dominated possession for about three-quarters of the game? I don't think that points to the England back row having a nightmare.

You're right Dave - The nightmare didn't occur until about 1 am this morning when that backrow woke up screaming when they thought Warburton and Lydiate were coming through their hotel window

Back row!!!

Is Fourie the most overrated player in England? Quite possibly. He has tough competition from Hape and FLutey though.

Outside contender for the title is Banahan.

That backrow is not dynamic. It is too slow if England wish to score tries.

I think Haskell could be a bit of an outsider for that competition aswell although he's clear favorite in the likely to blow "hot and cold" from game to game.

RubyGuby I agree. I think Haskell is the English version of Andy Powell. Both are strong,powerful and athletic. Both are excellent ball carriers. On the other hand they both have little brainpower and can go missing during play. Their workrate should be higher. Are Haskell and Powell just show ponies?

They certainly lack the all round no 8 abilities of the likes of Harinorduquy,Beattie,Heaslip and Parisse.

Nick Easter has the brain and the work ethic but not the pace to match the top no 8s.

Haskell work ethic, in the first england match was incredible. One of our best forwards that day. Made good ground and cleared out Rucks at an incredible rate.

I dont remember seeing him on Sat. He came on didn't he?

I don't think workrate has ever been an issue for Haskell, he never stops tackling and hitting rucks. His fitness and strength are apparently off the scale.

However, I do think that in the past his big weakness has been his decision making. It's not really about how many rucks you plough into, but rather which rucks you plough into. Richard Hill for example never seemed to be part of a ruck situation he couldn't influence, Richie McKaw is the same. They don't commit to lost causes, but rather make sure that when there is a ball to win or slow down, they do it. Haskell in the past hasn't shown that judgment, rather just hit every ruck and thrown himself into every situation. That's why he previously hasn't been particularly influential. Not workrate, but decision making.

I thought this season for England he looked to have turned that particular corner, particularly in his performances at 7 in the early part of the 6 Nations. I'd have no hesitation in having him at 8 for England, and I think he'd gel really well with Croft at 6 and Wood at 7.

I think Haskell has improved a lot this year. I wasn't his biggest fan previously, when he seemed to focus too much on brawn, without any thought to how he'd apply it in a match situation.

I think what he did well in the six nations was to carry the ball in space though. Our problems at the ruck were still very much there.

I agree, but I think if you combine Wood and Croft on the flanks, and Deacon and Lawes in the second row, you'll find the ruck situation much improves.

Haskell and Easter at 7 and 8 didn't work for me. As you've noted, you want Haskell to be focused on carrying ball and choosing which rucks to hit, but not solely relying on him to be the guy at every ruck. I think the rangy combination of Croft and Wood is a better bet in that regard, added to the workrate you get from the effective and unflashy Louis Deacon.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I agree, but I think if you combine Wood and Croft on the flanks, and Deacon and Lawes in the second row, you'll find the ruck situation much improves.

Haskell and Easter at 7 and 8 didn't work for me. As you've noted, you want Haskell to be focused on carrying ball and choosing which rucks to hit, but not solely relying on him to be the guy at every ruck. I think the rangy combination of Croft and Wood is a better bet in that regard, added to the workrate you get from the effective and unflashy Louis Deacon.

...but are either of Croft or Wood good enough at the breakdown for that to really work?

Incidentally, I'm not really sure where the adoration of Wood comes from. He's a solid player but hasn't really done anything particularly outstanding for England.

Yes, I think Croft is very much underrated at the breakdown.

Also, I personally thought Wood was excellent for England in the 6 Nations, but I see him more as a 7 than a 6. He was also player of the season. Not sure you can do an awful lot more in your breakthrough season.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Yes, I think Croft is very much underrated at the breakdown.

Also, I personally thought Wood was excellent for England in the 6 Nations, but I see him more as a 7 than a 6. He was also player of the season. Not sure you can do an awful lot more in your breakthrough season.

I know he has had a lot of plaudits and won that award; I just can't see quite what's so special about him myself. Very competent player of course, but I can't quite see what he does that's so brilliant.

Agree with Tomathy, wood has looked solid but nothing that special really, along with the rest of the backrow he was anonimous on Sat and the week before that what did he do?

Maybe he'll grow in to the role but at the moment I just see a lot of hype.

On the ruck note i don't think any one player will change our problems there. We need a massive change in mindset for the whole pack and this can only change with the coaches. They need to change how their training and get them hitting rucks and clearing out.

I assume Croft is injured, a back row containing Croft, Ester and Moody or Wood is probably our best combination....but as you say until the management have a re-think on when to hit rucks and clear them out or leave them alone its irrelevent who we have. By contrast watch the ABs from 1-15 they hit every tackle and ruck with such ferocity, bordering on demented, its no wonder the opposition back off and let them have the ball!

It will be interesting to see whether quick ball is produced once Youngs returns, which is what happened when he started against the Aussies last year, then perhaps we can look at the other 9s and question why they're not demanding quick ball and telling their forwards to leave their mitts off the ball and do as they're told!

Theres some interesting talk that the issue is not the ability of the players at the breakdown...but the numbers that England are commiting to the breakdown...keeping it to the minimum etc. Would you agree?

And would you also agree...that if this is the case...we are getting it badly wrong and committing the wrong numbers to the wrong ones..

Geordie - England are not committing enough players to the breakdown - they didn't against Ireland and suffered in a similar way. I think its part of their new offensive game which whilst creditable is not always going to work - The disappointing thing was that they couldn't adapt mid way through the game and maybe that's were Moodys leadership as a back row forward was missed. Apart from being a senior player I'm not convinced Tindall has the tactical nous to pick up on this although the bench should have advised - Ireland will be wreckless rougues at the breakdown so something will have to change

I thought England totally dominated possession for about three-quarters of the game? I don't think that points to the England back row having a nightmare..

The English possession and territory came from the tight five controlling the set piece and doing the unglamourous work in the tight. As soon as the ball went out into the backs the English backrow were slow to get to the next breakdown and in defence completely unable to disrupt Welsh ball. The backrow was dire, Fourie offered nothing, Wood offered only a little more than Fourie and Easter was uncharacteristically quiet and off the pace.

What really annoyed me about Easter's performance was when he lost control at the back of the scrum, the penalty try was a certainty, if he had done what a good 8 does and maintained control then Cole was destroying James and England were going forward the Welsh were standing up (again) and it was yellow card/penalty try time. He loses possession and England get turned over because the ball is scrappy and they are under pressure.