Ireland vs France, 20th August, AVIVA Stadium

First topic message reminder :

Marc Lievremont has named his side to face Ireland on Saturday, making 13 changes from the team that won in Bordeaux. Meanwhile, Declan Kidney has brought back several experienced players including O'Connell, David Wallace, Heaslip, O'Driscoll and D'Arcy as Ireland's preparations step up a gear. Special mention for Felix Jones, making his first start for Ireland, who looks well positioned to be our World Cup bolter should he grasp this massive opportunity.

The game will be held in the AVIVA Stadium on Saturday the 20th August, Kick-off is at 5pm.

IRELAND Team and Replacements

15 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)

1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)

FRANCE Team & Replacements:

15 - Cédric Heymans (Toulouse)
14 - Maxime Médard (Toulouse)
13 - Aurélien Rougerie (Clermont Auvergne)
12 - Fabrice Estebanez (Brive)
11 - Alexis Palisson (Toulon)
10 - David Skrela (Toulouse)
9 - Morgan Parra (Clermont Auvergne)

1 - Jean-Baptiste Poux (Toulouse)
2 - Dimitri Szarzewski (Stade Francais)
3 - Nicolas Mas (Perpignan)
4 - Pascal Papé (Stade Francais)
5 - Lionel Nallet (Racing Metro 92) (capt)
6 - Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier)
7 - Louis Picamoles (Toulouse)
8 - Julien Bonnaire (Clermont Auvergne)

Replacements:

16 - Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan)
17 - Fabien Barcella (Biarritz Olympique)
18 - Julien Pierre (Clermont Auvergne)
19 - Raphaël Lakafia (Biarritz Olympique)
20 - Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique)
21 - Francois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier)
22 - Vincent Clerc (Toulouse)

Best pack possible.

Could be a good old tussle for the 14 jersey. Trimble vs Bowe.

TOL - DOH!

Felix has a good game he is the bolter.

Fitz will go ahead of McFadden now I'd say and I dont see any hope for Murray I am afraid.

15 - Felix Jones (Shannon/ Munster)
14 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster)

9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:
16 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon/ Munster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
19 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/ Leinster)

Mike McCarthy must be causing Deccie a headache. I though Ryan may have been a shoo in but maybe not.

Boyne wrote:
TOL - DOH!

My only complaint really. I'd leave him at home. But I don't have the benefit of seeing him in training every day

Gutted Murray isn't invloved vs France, TOL just isn't good enough. But it basically means Redden and TOL are fighting it out for 1st choice and Stringer will not travel now.

2 strong teams, great to see Ferris, BOD, D'arcy and Jennings all back playing.

Interesting to see how Jones fares from the start, Wallace goes at FH, if Buckley can redeem himself.

I'd say its more about Sexton & O'Leary's turn to play now. Both Sexton & O'Leary need gametime together. Same with ROG & Reddan.

Kidney was never going to throw Sexton & Murray together for such a big game as they have never played together before.

Trimble and Jones have both now featured in 3 matches in a row. They will both travel. Both have done well with gametime. Likely to see Bowe and Kearney start though.

Standulstermen wrote:Mike McCarthy must be causing Deccie a headache. I though Ryan may have been a shoo in but maybe not.

Not really, Ryan has had two games, McCarthy is getting his second. People read too much into Ryan being picked for the first France match.

roddersm wrote:Thanks Val

Interesting stuff. The plot thickens...

That suggests that TOL and Reddan are the 1st choice 9 & 10 and it's between Murray and Boss for the final 9 spot.

McFadden isn't really in consideration as a centre but might make it as a winger if Bowe is out but realistically he's out of the frame.

Jones is ahead of Murphy and looks very close to nailing a spot on the plane.

McCarthy is still in the frame which suggest either that Ryan hasn't secured his spot on the plane yet or that there are still concerns about Ferris.

Hayes may go as Buckley seems to be out of the frame as a TH.

Yep agree with all of that. Wallace was always going to be at 10 for this game the surprise is keatley at 12. Mc Fadden could score 5 tries and convert them all from the sideline in this match and hes not going to go. Part of that is down to him not taking his chance, jones taking his chance and the fact that fitz's previous form in 2009 is helping him make the 30.

I wonder with mccarthy is there any chance he may go instead of cullen? Cullen hasn't been great and mccarthy usually calls the lineout at connacht, so if he performed well in his time this week... Don't really see it happening but there might be a possibility.

back up lock is definately up for grabs. McCarthy isnt on the bench to play 6 with Ferris there also after all

Standulstermen wrote:Mike McCarthy must be causing Deccie a headache. I though Ryan may have been a shoo in but maybe not.

Ryan is that couple of inches taller. but does not seem to be better in the lineout because of it.

McCarthy has a great engine and is very fit. Probably a hard choice, with McLaughlin out of it now. Looked like Ryan had him initially.

Standulstermen wrote:Looks like Jones is being given serious consideration. Murray im not so sure about after all he is only benching for the connacht game. Shame as i would rather see him than TOL or Boss.

Good to see 1F back in and around the squad. Surely this is trimbles last game though?

I think he's a solid 60min away from getting on the plane especially with Fitness concerns around Kearney. Looks like Fitz will make it too. McFadden is a goner it seems unless there are injuries.

I'd say Trimble will make way for Bowe next week but he's certainly secured his spot on the plane.

It's a shame about Murray but it looks like Kidney has his mind made up. To be honest TOL has been the worst SH on display so far but Kidney just has a blind spot for him.

Disappointed not to see Murray starting in the Connacht game or benching for France. Decent team,O'Leary was ok against Scotland his service was slightly faster we will see what he can do with a good pack. I still wouldn't start him mind you.

I disagree that TOL's service was better against Scotland but Sin has it right. Its his 2nd game and Reddan/Sexton played together all season. I dont think its ludicrous to see how TOL goes with Sexton seeing as that may feature at the RWC.

Do you think Deccie is mad keen for TOL to start with Sexton at RWC?
I would like to see Jonny get some Ireland match time with Reddan.
Anyway, good strong team - will be a good game hopefully. Bring on the Aviva on Saturday. Whoo !

D24tress wrote:Kearney is our most underrated player, he is a world class full back
Who despite the propaganda on here can attack and attack very well

Jones wasnt good enough to take his place at leinster and i dont think he will be good enough to take his irish place

I'm one of kearney's biggest fans but your last line isn't completely true. Jones decided to leave leinster to go somewhere he would be guaranteed gametime. He didn't really stay at leinster long enough to challenge. I think he will come very close to kearney and that they will have a fight over the jersey for the next few years.

Boss and Murray now in a shootout for Stringers spot.

Would be happy with either, for very different reasons.

Longer term Murray is deffo the man. Boss might edge him with experience etc. Oh and being a Kiwi!

Boyne wrote:Best pack possible.

Could be a good old tussle for the 14 jersey. Trimble vs Bowe.

TOL - DOH!

Felix has a good game he is the bolter.

Fitz will go ahead of McFadden now I'd say and I dont see any hope for Murray I am afraid.

Agreed with all of Boyne's points. Mark the day.

Only thing I would say is I don't think DK is set on his wingers yet. Bowe must have a problem or why haven't we seen him yet? 2 of 3 from Bowe, Trimble and Earls with the other on the bench.

Good to see 1f back.

TOL has his merits and against Australia he could be of use for his defensive capabilities,we can't fling the ball against OZ if we do we will get massacred.

Ryan only making the bench for connacht is a wierd one aswell
Don't quite get that

I was thinking was the connacht game a chance for fellas who were holding tackle bags to get a game before going back to there provinces

McCarthy looks like he is going even if Ferris is fit.
McFadden not in the frame for 12.
Boss and Murray head to head for the 3rd scrum half slot.
Jennings and Ryan not going to make it.
Buckley in the last chance saloon. If he is crap against Connacht then the Bull will go - which may mean a 5th prop and 1 less back (no Fitzgerald)

I would guess these backs on are on the plane - Wallace, D'Arcy, BOD, Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Jones, Kearney.

roddersm wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Looks like Jones is being given serious consideration. Murray im not so sure about after all he is only benching for the connacht game. Shame as i would rather see him than TOL or Boss.

Good to see 1F back in and around the squad. Surely this is trimbles last game though?

I think he's a solid 60min away from getting on the plane especially with Fitness concerns around Kearney. Looks like Fitz will make it too. McFadden is a goner it seems unless there are injuries.

I'd say Trimble will make way for Bowe next week but he's certainly secured his spot on the plane.

It's a shame about Murray but it looks like Kidney has his mind made up. To be honest TOL has been the worst SH on display so far but Kidney just has a blind spot for him.

I think boss and tol were fairly similiar against scotland. The only thing that has changed in the scrumhalf decision is stringer's complete collapse and murrays good form. Tol and reddan were always going. Its now a straight fight for the third place between boss and murray and I'd expect they get close to a half each.

Thomond wrote:TOL has his merits and against Australia he could be of use for his defensive capabilities,we can't fling the ball against OZ if we do we will get massacred.

TOL is the only scrum half in the series to miss a tackle, two of them. Can we please cease the nonsence about TOL's defence? If I was going to bet my mortgage on one of our SH's to make a tackle my money wouldn't be on TOL.

You should have said and I could have just posted it here and you could have cut and pasted it !

geoff998rugby wrote:McCarthy looks like he is going even if Ferris is fit.
McFadden not in the frame for 12.
Boss and Murray head to head for the 3rd scrum half slot.
Jennings and Ryan not going to make it.
Buckley in the last chance saloon. If he is crap against Connacht then the Bull will go - which may mean a 5th prop and 1 less back (no Fitzgerald)

I would guess these backs on are on the plane - Wallace, D'Arcy, BOD, Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Jones, Kearney.

Buckley is up against either Ah You or Maguire, who are kids with almost zero experience. If he can't boss them around we can't afford to take him at all. But even if he does, it's still just kids! Like I said, we'll learn nothing about the front row from this game.

(sorry, posted to the wrong thread)

stupid double post

geoff998rugby wrote:McCarthy looks like he is going even if Ferris is fit.
McFadden not in the frame for 12.
Boss and Murray head to head for the 3rd scrum half slot.
Jennings and Ryan not going to make it.
Buckley in the last chance saloon. If he is crap against Connacht then the Bull will go - which may mean a 5th prop and 1 less back (no Fitzgerald)

I would guess these backs on are on the plane - Wallace, D'Arcy, BOD, Trimble, Bowe, Earls, Jones, Kearney.

If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props. McCarthy is a lock by trade, and he plays in the poc cullen role.
Donnacha Ryan has already played two games compared to mccarthy only having one, I don't think you can read too much into
their selection. I'm just surprised that cullen is starting against connacht and I'd be getting worried if I was him. I would say ryan is
still very likely to go. McFadden isn't going unless there is a lot of injuries.

valjester wrote:
I think boss and tol were fairly similiar against scotland.

I agree and thats why it's those two who should be in the shoot out because Reddan and and Murray were a country mile better than both against France.

Geoff thats an interesting point about Buckley and Hayes both going and Fitzgerald missing out. You could be on to something there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgerald comes on for Jones at some point then as Kidney could be deciding between Fitzgerald or Jones as full back cover.

I still wouldn't put it past Buckley to be crap. To be honest we needed to put out some sort of front row who else would you suggest ?

Cronin will benefit from the game time and the 5 other certainties, for the plane, are with the big boys.

Here's a thought, what happens if Niall O'Connor out plays Paddy Wallace?

roddersm wrote:

valjester wrote:
I think boss and tol were fairly similiar against scotland.

I agree and thats why it's those two who should be in the shoot out because Reddan and and Murray were a country mile better than both against France.

Geoff thats an interesting point about Buckley and Hayes both going and Fitzgerald missing out. You could be on to something there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgerald comes on for Jones at some point then as Kidney could be deciding between Fitzgerald or Jones as full back cover.

Also give us a chance to put earls at fullback for a while, even though I'm not sure if that fair on earls. I think its more likely that trimble will come off at some stage.

I thought it would be a 17 13 split, but now I think it will just be the 4 props, the others aren't good enough so it would be a waste of a space and I think kidney knows that.

Tol was always going, provided he was fit.

roddersm wrote:Here's a thought, what happens if Niall O'Connor out plays Paddy Wallace?

The world would implode. That won't happen, not even in noc's dreams.

roddersm wrote:Here's a thought, what happens if Niall O'Connor out plays Paddy Wallace?

We put all our money on Japan to win the RWC.

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

roddersm wrote:Thanks Val

Interesting stuff. The plot thickens...

That suggests that TOL and Reddan are the 1st choice 9 & 10 and it's between Murray and Boss for the final 9 spot.

McFadden isn't really in consideration as a centre but might make it as a winger if Bowe is out but realistically he's out of the frame.

Jones is ahead of Murphy and looks very close to nailing a spot on the plane.

McCarthy is still in the frame which suggest either that Ryan hasn't secured his spot on the plane yet or that there are still concerns about Ferris.

Hayes may go as Buckley seems to be out of the frame as a TH.

I hope Tol and Reddan are not our first choice 9 & 10. That would be a distaster.

Everything is crossed that MUrray has a stormer and Boss does not. Like Boss but I think Murray is much better and will be the ebst 9 we have in 6 months or so

To be honest I'm happy enough. I think Kidney has got most things right here.

The problem is the one thing that he has got very wrong is the scrum half situation and that could throw a big spanner in the works as the 9 is so vital to how we play the game.

Great to see Ferris back can't wait to see him come on and smash every Frenchman in sight and show us all what we've been missing

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

Ross can cover loosehead apparently. It won't matter anyway, we all know that buckley is going, he's just getting more time at loosehead in case healy gets injured in which case he will have to be bench cover.

Thomond wrote:TOL has his merits and against Australia he could be of use for his defensive capabilities,we can't fling the ball against OZ if we do we will get massacred.

That may be true, I would also suggest however that Australia's defense is very very good and to beat it we are going to need very quick first phase ball, unfortunately I don't think O'Leary can provide that.

The way I see us beating Australia is playing a more controlled game than them through Sexton at 10. A good combination of controlling the game to neutralize the Aussie backline (at least to some degree) and unleashing our own backline.

Throwing it round might be unwise against Australia, but lets not pretend we are going to beat them playing 10 man rugby either. I think Australia in the WC is going to come down to the quality of ball we get from the breakdown and our halfbacks, Sexton vs Cooper I think will be key.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Everything is crossed that MUrray has a stormer and Boss does not. Like Boss but I think Murray is much better and will be the ebst 9 we have in 6 months or so

From what I've heard, unless murray has an absolute shocker, boss will be playing for leinster in september. The coaching staff are really surprised at how well murray has done in training and the work he puts in in the gym and on his passing is very impressive. Before the camp, he was not really in their reckoning but he has managed to change that.

valjester wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

Ross can cover loosehead apparently. It won't matter anyway, we all know that buckley is going, he's just getting more time at loosehead in case healy gets injured in which case he will have to be bench cover.

So if Court gets lashed out of it. We have to start a game with Hayes on the bench. Then if Healy has to be subbed we end up with Ross and Hayes as our two props?

It won't be pretty.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

No you wouldnt. Court is a LH first and foremost.

valjester wrote: The coaching staff are really surprised at how well murray has done in training and the work he puts in in the gym and on his passing is very impressive. Before the camp, he was not really in their reckoning but he has managed to change that.

That's great the coaching staff are catching up with the rest of us but I wonder when the penny will drop that he's better than TOL too.

I'll also quickly point out that I don't think O'Leary should go. I would take Reddan, Murray and Boss.

O'Leary isn't really a scrum half at all for me, I think he's a great athlete but in the wrong position, similar situation to Mike Phillips, why anybody thinks that guys who are 6'2 and cant pass anything close to the quality of most 9's make good scrumhalfs I don't understand.

Standulstermen wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

No you wouldnt. Court is a LH first and foremost.

Healy = LH only. Hayes = TH only. Ross = TH only. (Allegedly Ross can play both but he has never played a second for Leinster at LH

That leaves Court as the only one who can play both sides.

So 3 x props who can only play on one side, plus court.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

valjester wrote:
If buckley doesn't go then hayes does and its still 4 props.

Arguably, You would need 5 as Hayes doesn't cover both sides. Makes Tom Court very valuable. If you took Hayes instead of Buckley, you would have 3 Props only capable of playing on one side.

Ross can cover loosehead apparently. It won't matter anyway, we all know that buckley is going, he's just getting more time at loosehead in case healy gets injured in which case he will have to be bench cover.

So if Court gets lashed out of it. We have to start a game with Hayes on the bench. Then if Healy has to be subbed we end up with Ross and Hayes as our two props?

It won't be pretty.

I said that buckley will travel, if court is injured they can call up a replacement, the chances of ross playing at loosehead are huge.

Court cant really cover TH though. Its not his strength. Couple that with the fact that Healy is more likely to last 80mins than Ross and that means that TH becomes an issue, particularly against Russia and the US. The fact then that Hayes is starting at TH against Connact suggests a decent performance will see him in.

Russia and the US?

I would fancy their props to do Buckley in the scrum, to be honest.

I think people needed to calm down about murray he is being built up as the next big thing
It will be the same people jumping on him the day he has a bad game.
Let him come along naturally,
He has played a handful of magners league games calling him our best scrum half and throwing him in starting against italy or the ozzies would be madness and if he had a bad game it could be detremental to his confidence, if he goes it should be for the experience and gearing him towards a 6 nations, lets see if he can do it for munster in the heineken cup first before calling him the messiah