Do hookers make the best rugby pundits?

by Portnoy Tue 16 Aug 2011, 12:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

Keith Wood, Sean FitzPatrick, Brian Moore.

I rest my case.

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 9:32 am

Notch wrote:Keith Wood is nowhere near able to emotionally remove himself from the context of the game to deliver a fair, unbiased cool-headed analysis. He talks a fair amount of rubbish too boot. Don't like him at all as a pundit.

I wouldn't even mind Wood being emotionally bias if he actually knew what he was talking about. It's obvious that he is totally removed from modern rugby and especially the Irish rugby scene. He acts like he's giving the inside track on what is going on and he's just talking garbage or about things that haven't been relevent for 7 or 8 years.

He comes across more like a Darragh O'Brien or Graham Norton wannabe rather than a serious rugby pundit which is a shame because he was such an iconic rugby player, on par with the likes Johnson, Dallagio and the other greats of his era.

I still think Andy Nicol is an insightful and relatively impartial Rugby pundit but clearly I'm in the minority.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:22 am

I must say I like Woody - a bit of fun about him and he isn't afraid to say what he thinks - he pundits like he used to play. Maybe I just get his sense of humour. Rodders, he was nothing like Johnson or Dallagio in personality though. Watch the 1997 Lions Tour documentary.

Rodders, Woody is a Director of London Irish and a mentor to Munster Rugby - he is involved. He would be frequently in contact with the Munster players - Limerick is a very small place. In twittergate recently, Keith Earls was asked about it and he said that Woody advised him to keep well away from all that stuff - and Woody would not have played with him to know him. I seem to remember Jean de Villiers saying that Woody & the Claw took him out for a night when he arrived in Limerick first.

Irrelevant for 7/8 years? Wasn't he the blazer that represented Ireland on the pitch for the opening of the last world cup 4 years ago?

by **Notch** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:25 am

No, he knows his rugby he just gets too involved in whats happening on the pitch. He acts like a fan, not a pundit, and thats a problem.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:38 am

Why is it a problem then if he knows his rugby? The most successful shows are based on the 'couple of lads chatting in a pub' format, except these lads know what they are talking about. Conor O'Shea & Will Greenwood (who I also like) are clearly fans.

I'd be pretty sure Jonno would know his rugby - don't think I'd enjoy listening to him talking about it though.

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:38 am

Sin é wrote:I must say I like Woody - a bit of fun about him and he isn't afraid to say what he thinks - he pundits like he used to play. Maybe I just get his sense of humour. Rodders, he was nothing like Johnson or Dallagio in personality though. Watch the 1997 Lions Tour documentary.

Rodders, Woody is a Director of London Irish and a mentor to Munster Rugby - he is involved.

Sin I'm not talking about his personality, I'm talking about his status within the game.

Woody might be involved with LI and to a lesser extent Munster but I don't believe his knowledge of what is currently going on in Irish rugby is anywhere as near as much as as he makes out or what non Irish viewers think it is.

He's a bit like Gusgott in that he knows a bit about certain things but very little about what is going on outside that but rather than focusing about what he does know he bluffs that he knows about things that he doesn't.

by Portnoy Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:46 am

Sin é wrote:I must say I like Woody - a bit of fun about him and he isn't afraid to say what he thinks - he pundits like he used to play. Maybe I just get his sense of humour. Rodders, he was nothing like Johnson or Dallagio in personality though. Watch the 1997 Lions Tour documentary.

Rodders, Woody is a Director of London Irish and a mentor to Munster Rugby - he is involved. He would be frequently in contact with the Munster players - Limerick is a very small place. In twittergate recently, Keith Earls was asked about it and he said that Woody advised him to keep well away from all that stuff - and Woody would not have played with him to know him. I seem to remember Jean de Villiers saying that Woody & the Claw took him out for a night when he arrihave ved in Limerick first.

Irrelevant for 7/8 years? Wasn't he the blazer that represented Ireland on the pitch for the opening of the last world cup 4 years ago?

I like Woody for his passion and his experience. But to he honest he is the weakest of a very strong trio of hooker pundits I proposed.
I like Moore for his passion (again) but in a different way. He knows about the disorderly conduct which prevails in the front five. It is not surprising that when acting as a legal brief, magistrates got confused between the accused and his representative. And he took time out to learn to be a junior ref.
FitzPatrick is just reserved and objective - and is a moonshine amongst Sky pundits.

But I'd also have to compliment SafeasMilk's introduction of Ibanez. He's good.

But Nichol is just urine poor.

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:56 am

OK maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Woody, he does annoy me with some of his gibberish though.

Agree Fitzpatrick is excellent and Brian Moore is pretty good even though he tends to not to be able to spot when an English player commits a penalty offence.

by dummy_half Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:18 am

"Brian Moore is pretty good even though he tends to not to be able to spot when an English player commits a penalty offence."

I think this comment shows that fans hear what they want to from a pundit - as an England fan, I think that one of Moore's biggest strengths as a co-commentator is how critical he is of England when they do something stupid. OK, he occasionally misses things on first viewing, but then so do all of us, and he is normally willing to correct himself if he sees something different on the replay.

by **George Carlin** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:20 am

The only thing about Andy Nichol is that ALL he talks about is Scotland.
And I say that as a Scot.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:27 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:I must say I like Woody - a bit of fun about him and he isn't afraid to say what he thinks - he pundits like he used to play. Maybe I just get his sense of humour. Rodders, he was nothing like Johnson or Dallagio in personality though. Watch the 1997 Lions Tour documentary.

Rodders, Woody is a Director of London Irish and a mentor to Munster Rugby - he is involved.

Sin I'm not talking about his personality, I'm talking about his status within the game.

Woody might be involved with LI and to a lesser extent Munster but I don't believe his knowledge of what is currently going on in Irish rugby is anywhere as near as much as as he makes out or what non Irish viewers think it is.

He's a bit like Gusgott in that he knows a bit about certain things but very little about what is going on outside that but rather than focusing about what he does know he bluffs that he knows about things that he doesn't.

I'd say of all the Irish pundits, Woody probably gets closest to the players. He probably plays golf every week with Paul O'Connell and he grew up with Anthony Foley and they both live in Killaloe (just outside Limerick). One thing I'm sure of is that senior Irish players like BOD, ROG & POC hold Woody in very high esteem (read Ronan O'Gara's biography).

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:28 am

roddersm wrote:OK maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Woody, he does annoy me with some of his gibberish though.

Agree Fitzpatrick is excellent and Brian Moore is pretty good even though he tends to not to be able to spot when an English player commits a penalty offence.

You just don't like Woody because he criticised Paddy Wallace's decision making Very Happy

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:36 am

Sin é wrote:
I'd say of all the Irish pundits, Woody probably gets closest to the players. He probably plays golf every week with Paul O'Connell and he grew up with Anthony Foley and they both live in Killaloe (just outside Limerick). One thing I'm sure of is that senior Irish players like BOD, ROG & POC hold Woody in very high esteem (read Ronan O'Gara's biography).

I have no doubt that every Irish player and fan holds Woody in high esteem, myself included but that is not the point. The point is that he is a poor pundit not that he isn't a nice chap and a once great rugby player and captain.

I'm aware he plays Golf with POC and is close to some of the Munster boys but this just makes him even more impartial towards certain players rather than Knowledgeable about Irish rugby as a whole. I think he had his finger on the pulse as to how things went under EOS but not anymore.

What has Foley got to do with it?

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:42 am

Sin é wrote:
You just don't like Woody because he criticised Paddy Wallace's decision making

He also said Tommy Bowe didn't have pace so I take his opinion with a pinch of salt Whistle

.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:56 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
I'd say of all the Irish pundits, Woody probably gets closest to the players. He probably plays golf every week with Paul O'Connell and he grew up with Anthony Foley and they both live in Killaloe (just outside Limerick). One thing I'm sure of is that senior Irish players like BOD, ROG & POC hold Woody in very high esteem (read Ronan O'Gara's biography).

I have no doubt that every Irish player and fan holds Woody in high esteem, myself included but that is not the point. The point is that he is a poor pundit not that he isn't a nice chap and a once great rugby player and captain.

I'm aware he plays Golf with POC and is close to some of the Munster boys but this just makes him even more impartial towards certain players rather than Knowledgeable about Irish rugby as a whole. I think he had his finger on the pulse as to how things went under EOS but not anymore.

What has Foley got to do with it?

One of your main points is that he is out of touch with Irish rugby. How can he be out of touch with Irish rugby if he is talking to (on a regular basis) and is trusted by some of the senior players? And I can't see Munster/Ireland letting Keith Earls* go near any pundit if they didn't trust them.

Anthony Foley is employed by the IRFU (he is assistant manager at Munster). I'm sure he'd knows what is going on in Irish rugby if not European rugby.

*Munster were always very protective of Earls with regard to the media (he stopped getting MOTM awards in his early days because Munster wouldn't let the media near him to present the award).

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:22 pm

Sin é wrote:
One of your main points is that he is out of touch with Irish rugby. How can he be out of touch with Irish rugby if he is talking to (on a regular basis) and is trusted by some of the senior players? And I can't see Munster/Ireland letting Keith Earls* go near any pundit if they didn't trust them.

Anthony Foley is employed by the IRFU (he is assistant manager at Munster). I'm sure he'd knows what is going on in Irish rugby if not European rugby.

Sin you are just further confirming what I believe about Wood. The fact that he gets in inside info on Irish rugby from playing Golf with the Munster old boys club just suggests that he has a very narrow view of what is going on and is completely bias and out of touch with his views.

I think if he got most of his information on Irish rugby from playing golf with David Humphreys you would be questioning his judgement and impartiality too.

by Great White Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
flankertye wrote:Its clear the pundits in the next 10 years or so will be Moody, BOD (Unless he becomes a full time superhero) Jamie Roberts and possibly Kellock.

I'd say they are queuing up for ROG who would be good I think, though he might upset a few people

If nothing else, ROG could give some betting advice.... LOL

by Great White Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:44 pm

dummy_half wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
dummy_half wrote:Jiffy only seems to have two comments - 'Go wide' or 'Numbers'
He does have some other comments, but they can only be picked up at the higher frequencies. At the end of the Wales/Scotland game in 2010 there were several instances of dogs running in circles and bats being thrown off course. An RSPCA order meant that for future transmissions Jiffy's mike was fitted with special sound baffles.

'Leave it go' Doh

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:10 pm

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
One of your main points is that he is out of touch with Irish rugby. How can he be out of touch with Irish rugby if he is talking to (on a regular basis) and is trusted by some of the senior players? And I can't see Munster/Ireland letting Keith Earls* go near any pundit if they didn't trust them.

Anthony Foley is employed by the IRFU (he is assistant manager at Munster). I'm sure he'd knows what is going on in Irish rugby if not European rugby.

Sin you are just further confirming what I believe about Wood. The fact that he gets in inside info on Irish rugby from playing Golf with the Munster old boys club just suggests that he has a very narrow view of what is going on and is completely bias and out of touch with his views.

I think if he got most of his information on Irish rugby from playing golf with David Humphreys you would be questioning his judgement and impartiality too.

First of all you claimed he had no connection with Irish rugby! I've pointed out SOME connections. For all you and I know, he could talk to David Humphreys regularly. I'm sure they turn up at the same Irish rugby functions.

The main point is that he does have pretty good connections in Irish rugby - far better than most the pundits doing the rounds. Just you don't rate him as a pundit.

PS - I'd expect David Humphreys (like Paul O'Connell) to be above petty local rugby politics.

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:44 pm

Fair enough Sin lets just agree to disagree. To be honest I just prefer to listen to someone impartial like George Hook... Wink

by TheGreyGhost Wed 17 Aug 2011, 2:37 pm

Notch wrote:Keith Wood is nowhere near able to emotionally remove himself from the context of the game to deliver a fair, unbiased cool-headed analysis. He talks a fair amount of rubbish too boot. Don't like him at all as a pundit.

Brian Moore is a just incredibly annoying.

The title should be; Sean Fitzpatrick makes the best pundit.

Surely you mean "The Sean Fitzpatricks of this world make the best pundits"?

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 17 Aug 2011, 2:39 pm

Notch wrote:The title should be; Sean Fitzpatrick makes the best pundit.

No, no. The title should be: Sean Fitzpatrick makes the best pancakes.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:09 pm

roddersm wrote:Fair enough Sin lets just agree to disagree. To be honest I just prefer to listen to someone impartial like George Hook...

You mean impartial in your view .

Another way of putting that is for them to say what you want them to say Whistle

by TheGreyGhost Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:16 pm

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
Notch wrote:The title should be; Sean Fitzpatrick makes the best pundit.

No, no. The title should be: Sean Fitzpatrick makes the best pancakes.

I stayed at a B&B somewhere outside Limerick, run by Sean Fitzpatrick's cousin. His wife made good pancakes, so it must run in the family. He could talk the ears of a donkey though, but knew his rugby. He had some very interesting opinions on north hemispherian and particularly English rugby which are views he managed to convert me to, and that I still hold to this day.

by **rodders** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
roddersm wrote:Fair enough Sin lets just agree to disagree. To be honest I just prefer to listen to someone impartial like George Hook...

You mean impartial in your view .

Another way of putting that is for them to say what you want them to say

Sin trust me, George Hook does not say the things I want him to say... Wink

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:43 pm

Brian Moore is the most awful commentator ever - he speaks no sense except about the scrum - but then he'll go on a 5 minute rant about every scrum (and while what he says is right, ur not watching the game for that).

by Great White Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:50 pm

I'd rather listen to him than that whining schoolgirl Jonathan Davies any day.

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 3:57 pm

Funny mostly English fans seem to like him.

And at least J Davies has something useful to say "Numbers, there's Numbers!!!!" Laugh

by Great White Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:00 pm

Moore is a paragon of impartiality compared to Davies and a far superior commentator IMO.

by TheGreyGhost Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:01 pm

Brian Moore's anti-SH referee rants are annoying. He'll spend the entire game criticising the referee for variously being "too pendantic" and then "too liberal", taking too long to set the scrum, and then not paying enough attention to scrum indiscretions.

The annoying thing is that half of the English fan base here believe every word he says and then parrot it back for the next month.

by NewTraditionalHaka Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:06 pm

All of you. Shut up. You don't live in Australia so you don't have to put up with Phil Kearns on Fox Sports. You have no idea how lucky you are.

by TheGreyGhost Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:08 pm

I love the way whenever a front rower scores a try, Marto, Kearnsy and Clarky make the same joke:

Marto: "And the big prop crashes over for a try from 1 meter out."
Kearnsy: "On the wing where a good front rower should be."
<sniggers>
Clarky: "He'll be talking about that one after the game with the backs."
Kearnsy: "Yep mate, by the time he gets there it'll be a 40 meter run in with a side step."
<sniggers>

Hilarious stuff lads. The first 20 times.

by NewTraditionalHaka Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:13 pm

Yep. Almost as purile as Chris Rattue.

Almost.

by Smirnoffpriest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:16 pm

Great White wrote:Moore is a paragon of impartiality compared to Davies and a far superior commentator IMO.

I guess we'll have to disagree as there are a few words that spring to mind in regards to Moore and Impartiality is certainly not one of them, he is so England-centric it beggars belief. And I like a commentator to actually commentate on what goes on, not go off on rants about the scrum, refs, kicking, scrums and the touch hold engage for the majority of the match.

But if you like him for that then fair enough

by flankertye Wed 17 Aug 2011, 4:41 pm

Ahhh who remembers this moore classic?
https://youtu.be/jTQWT-B0EBw

by GLove39 Wed 17 Aug 2011, 5:15 pm

Didn't scrum v commentator Rick O'Shea play hooker? ( he's got the build for it anyway). I really like Rick as a commentator, laid back, chatty and fun to interact with. Hope the Beeb continues Friday night coverage of the pro 12 with Mr O'Shea in the commenty box

by welshy824 Wed 17 Aug 2011, 7:09 pm

shall we just agree, bill mclaren was a legend?

oh and shane i think will become a pundit only problem will be they will have to lower the camera so they can see him Wink

by **Notch** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 8:37 pm

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
You just don't like Woody because he criticised Paddy Wallace's decision making

He also said Tommy Bowe didn't have pace so I take his opinion with a pinch of salt .

That was George Hook. Everyone can agree he's an idiot at least.

And, God you two were obviously made for each other Rolling Eyes

by **Notch** Wed 17 Aug 2011, 8:39 pm

Also, I'm not interested in Keith Woods Irish connections. I'm interested in his knowledge of everything else in the rugby world outside his own comfort zone. Thats what makes a pundit. I'd listen to Will Greenwood or Sean Fitzpatrick talk about any two given teams. Keith Wood only really talks Ireland and Irish rugby.

Unfortunately the BBC have gone for 'passionate', 'partisan' pundits for the Six Nations.

by Sin é Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:04 pm

Notch wrote:Also, I'm not interested in Keith Woods Irish connections.

Rodders was interested in Woody's (or the lack of them) connections though Smile

by polotechnics Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:47 am

i must agree about andy nicol. so biased. According to Andy 'on their day, Scotland can beet anyone in the world'.

The rest i dont mind. Not to keen on the raging potato either.

by polotechnics Thu 18 Aug 2011, 10:50 am

although phil kearns or Kearnsy as they call him did call a grubber kick a worm burner the other day - made me laugh.

by dummy_half Thu 18 Aug 2011, 11:23 am

'on their day, Scotland can beet anyone in the world'.

Is that a day not ending in Y?

by Guest Fri 19 Aug 2011, 8:52 am

roddersm wrote:Andy Nicol is best pundit on the BBC. It seems Scotsmen make the most impartial and knowledgable pundits.

The English are too arrogant, the Irish too smug, the Welsh too delusional and the SH pundits are too darnright (but understandably) patronising.

Whilst the Scots are so humble.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 19 Aug 2011, 2:14 pm

Notch wrote:Also, I'm not interested in Keith Woods Irish connections. I'm interested in his knowledge of everything else in the rugby world outside his own comfort zone. Thats what makes a pundit. I'd listen to Will Greenwood or Sean Fitzpatrick talk about any two given teams. Keith Wood only really talks Ireland and Irish rugby.

Unfortunately the BBC have gone for 'passionate', 'partisan' pundits for the Six Nations.

To be fair thats what hes there for, to poresent an Irish perspective. If they made him talk about Johnny Wilkinsons drop goal all the time youf get even more Welshmen complaining.

On the actual commentry team you get one whos suppossed to be a professional presenter and another who is the expert analyst. Thats why Butler spends all his time describing what your saw a second previously whilst Moore rages about the details of the scrum. You follow the game and learn about its technical aspects, it works for me.

by nathan Fri 19 Aug 2011, 2:59 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:That Sonia lass, I rest my case.

from what i heard, she's also a hooker! Very Happy

by littlejohn Fri 19 Aug 2011, 8:50 pm

flankertye wrote:Ahhh who remembers this moore classic?
https://youtu.be/jTQWT-B0EBw

You can't fault his passion for the game - love it!

by littlejohn Fri 19 Aug 2011, 8:51 pm

Does Gerry Thornley ever commentate? His articles are always bang on....

by Shifty Fri 19 Aug 2011, 8:57 pm

dummy_half wrote:Alyn
"Although to be fair Jonathan Davies commentating on Wales is probably annoying for the other teams fans too! "

The phrase 'commentating on Wales' and word 'probably' should be deleted from the above to make it more accurate.
Jiffy only seems to have two comments - 'Go wide' or 'Numbers'

Scanning?

by tazfalklands Mon 22 Aug 2011, 12:04 am

No but they do usually have an idea whats going on in the tight, which is something that most of the other pundits and officials don't

by eirebilly Mon 22 Aug 2011, 8:07 am

I am not a fan of Brian Moores but to say that he is biased towards England is not my experience with listening to him. Most of the time he is busy tearing the English team to shreds and misses important plays.

I like Woody as well as he is very knowledgable if somewhat biased towards Ireland.

For me Ibanez is one of the best, really unbiased (when not on French TV) and knows his stuff.

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