Wales 28 - 13 Argentina - Post Match Discussion

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BBC IPLAYER
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b013rl7k/Rugby_Union_2011_2012_Wales_v_Argentina/

Wales completed their World Cup warm-ups with a hard-fought win over Argentina at the Millennium Stadium.

Felipe Contepomi struck the opening penalty, but Wales were 14-3 ahead at the break though Andy Powell and Alun Wyn Jones tries.

James Hook added both conversions and two penalties before George North crossed.

Martin Scelzo went over for the Pumas late on, but Hook's late penalty sealed Wales' win.

Adam Jones impressed on his return to the Welsh front-row following a toe injury.

But another member of Wales' Jones contingent was not so fortunate with the hosts forced into a bench reshuffle before kick-off when Stephen Jones withdrew with a recurrence of his calf problem.

The fly-half had been set to become Wales' most-capped player, making his 101s appearance, but instead centre Scott Williams took his place amongst the replacements.

Contepomi had the first chance of points, but the Pumas captain sent the penalty kick across the face of the Wales posts.

A snap drop-goal also drifted wide as Argentina kept Wales pinned in their own half with some fierce first-up tackling.

But when Rodrigo Roncero was penalised for pulling down a scrum James Hook was able to kick Wales into the visitors' 22 for the first time.

A series of drives opened a gap on the right and Lee Byrne made the extra man to send the ball on to Leigh Halfpenny.

The wing, back in the side after a long-term ankle injury made for the corner, but was dragged down just short.

When Wales ere caught offside Cont was handed another penalty and this time sent the ball over the bar, although off the inside of a post.

But the A fly-half missed a third attempt soon after the half hour mark and Wales him pay with two tries in quick succession.

First Powell charged across the line when scrum-half Knoyle sniped around a ruck before linking with AWJ who sent his number eight away.

Then it was lock Jones' turn to cross after a 30-yard break by wing George North, the beneficiary of some hard driving by Dan Lydiate and quick hands from Jamie Roberts.

Hook converted both tries and Wales were able to scamper off at half-time with a healthy 14-3 lead.

The Wales fly-half added two penalties soon after the break when referee Romain Poite penalised the Pumas for wheeling a scrum and then hands in the ruck.

Contepomi kicked his second penalty to make it 20-6, but with the lead still comfortable Wales coach Warren Gatland opted to freshen things from the bench.

Among the arrivals was Cardiff Blues scrum-half Lloyd Williams to win his first cap, following in the footsteps of ex-Wales and British Irish Lions number nine Brynmor Williams.

Lloyd Williams replaced the excellent Knoyle who must surely have booked his World Cup place.

Another youngster, Opsreys flanker Justin Tipuric, also came on for his Test debut to replace the 35-year-old stand-in skipper Martyn Williams.

Cardiff Blues flanker Williams was winning his 99th cap and still hopeful of more at the World Cup.

Wales rubber stamped their dominance with a third try as Jonathan Davies' clever inside flick found North, who crashed over from close range.

Argentina rallied to threaten the Wales line in the dying moments, shoving replacement prop Martin Scelzo over.

Hook added a late penalty to make Wales' lead 28-13 and send them off to the 11 September clash with South Africa in good heart.

I said it before, North has the makings to be one of the games greatest ever players. He is class.

Cari wrote:Ah no! Me and my big gob!

Naughty!
you hexed him!

He is bloody strong, was comfortable finishing that

Puma's will go hell for leather now and try and get a try in. They might as well go for corner.

Tavis Knoyle MOTM.

That could be a try for Argentina

Well...it's no biggy either way if it's given or not.

Looks like a try.

Defo try for Argentina. They deserved that.

Try for the Pumas! Don't like the booing.

scoi wrote:I didnt think Knoyle had that great a time. A couple of good moments but a few times things could have been sharper. May be due to the Argies disrupting the breakdown though.

I think he has looked very sharp (saying that I am rushing around getting for the real game today!!). I would say he must be close to MOM.

Certainly has to be backup to Phillips at the very least

Why the booing ?

Flyhalf - Tavis is MOTM

Well deserved MOTM for Knoyle. I think that he played well and his change of pace kept the Argentinian forwards guessing.

The booing was a little distastefull

Agree about the booing. Some manners please.

Overall it was a decent match, Good start by Argentina, then Wales got it together

Thats a sad end going for goal but very understandable

More booing because Jimbo's going for goal.

Da iawn bechgyn. You woke up eventually!

See you all on the Irish thread

Well done Wales

Difficukt first 37mins but they came through in style.

Really disappointed with all the booing at the MS. Sort it out!

Cari wrote:Cheers Flyhalf - good to see you. I'm looking forward to the Irish game too

How long left on Lobbe's binning?

Cheers and bye everyone, good game by Wales, Hook had a very composed game ............. nothing wrong with him managing a game now.

NOW FOR THE REAL GAME, Cari you little minx, now you can take off that pink cowboy hat now


Cheers and take care folks

SafeAsMilk wrote:Really disappointed with all the booing at the MS. Sort it out!

Hahahahaha wait until England play in NZ, you'll know what booing is son

welshjohn369 wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:Really disappointed with all the booing at the MS. Sort it out!

Hahahahaha wait until England play in NZ, you'll know what booing is son

Do NZ fans make any noise? They're the quietest in rugby aren't they?

nottins wrote:Why the booing ?

Why not? people paid their money and can boo whom ever they like.
I don't see a problem with it to be honest.

AlynDavies wrote:

nottins wrote:Why the booing ?

Why not? people paid their money and can boo whom ever they like.
I don't see a problem with it to be honest.

Sure they can. The fact that they choose to is interesting though. Like the MS pitch, it just detracts from the game.

Alyn - I think it's a bit impolite for people to boo to be honest. There's just no need for it. As for the people paying money excuse - it's a friendly not a world cup final, they got a good game, it's just rude.

Ok so.... lets forget about the booing and assess the teams?

Hook had a good game in attackand must now surely be our fly half.

North looked good, though did miss that tackle early on.

Martyn Williams has slowed down too much, we really need Warburton.

Powell did ok and scored a try but he's running out of the defensive line and leaving gaps behind, he is also slow around the park which doesn't help the defence.

Richard Hibbard was terrible in the line outs, he had both his props and AWJ his Ospreys team mate to throw too and he is still cack.

Contepomi was poor for Argentina a very nice bonus for Wales.

All and all that was a decent win but i have a huge concern over JD2 he just doesnt seem to cut it at international level for me and as good as Hook has been at outside half i can see him having to go back into the centre come world cup.

I think that Wales played very well in the second half but if they play like they did in the first half against a very good team, they will be in serious trouble.
Wales can feel fairly happy with the result but i am sure that England will be very interested in watching Argentinas performance. Aregentina will get better and England will be given a right workout.

First of all well played Wales, you looked very much out of the game for the first 37 minutes or so of the first half.

Secondly i posted this question on another thread but, has Lee Byrne played himself out of the Welsh squad or, has he played himself into the Welsh squad for the RWC.

SafeAsMilk wrote:Really disappointed with all the booing at the MS. Sort it out!

Its unfortunately something that is creeping into the game,im watching South Africa vs New Zealand and its happening there

mpc28 wrote:All and all that was a decent win but i have a huge concern over JD2 he just doesnt seem to cut it at international level for me and as good as Hook has been at outside half i can see him having to go back into the centre come world cup.

That was his poorest game for a while, but he did play well in Twickenham and tackled everything. He had poor handling at times today though.

majesticimperialman wrote:First of all well played Wales, you looked very much out of the game for the first 37 minutes or so of the first half.

Secondly i posted this question on another thread but, has Lee Byrne played himself out of the Welsh squad or, has he played himself into the Welsh squad for the RWC.

Was going to post the same question and i'd say yes he has but with Hook looking more likely to play at 10 or in the centre will Gatland risk not taking a recongised fullback?

Right can we just get something sorted out here ,,, The people in this forum are not responsible for the booing that went on today and in all honesty I did not even notice it.
It goes on and it goes on in most stadiums apart from Ireland.
Let's talk about the rugby that's the most important thing.

majesticimperialman wrote:Secondly i posted this question on another thread but, has Lee Byrne played himself out of the Welsh squad or, has he played himself into the Welsh squad for the RWC.

Well the last game he played was Saturday the 23rd of April, so 4 months, you can expect him to be rusty

Wales have a big problem with the No2 shirt. I have no problems with Huw Bennet as he seems to be in good form, but Hibbard today was terrible at the lineouts and doesnt look fit enough to stroll to the local shops, let alone play Test match Rugby. He was blowing after 12 minutes. Who do we take as back up to HB?

We also learned to day that if Adam Jones gets injured, we are screwed in the tight.

Byrne was very rusty - but I think he will still go. I think Priestland/Halfpenny can be pencilled in at FB for the first game.

The positives - Tavis looked good, AWJ is back to somewhere near his best, Powell had maybe his second best outing in a Wales shirt, George North is turning into a try scoring machine and Hook looked very composed at 10.

Bradley Davies was quiet again today - has Charteris done enough to displace him in the starting XV?

AlynDavies wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Secondly i posted this question on another thread but, has Lee Byrne played himself out of the Welsh squad or, has he played himself into the Welsh squad for the RWC.

Well the last game he played was Saturday the 23rd of April, so 4 months, you can expect him to be rusty

I see your point Alyn but can we afford to take rusty player to the world cup?

ML - agreed. We really missed Matthew Rees today.

Will Nugget go? Great stand in for Sam...what are the options?

mpc28 wrote:I see your point Alyn but can we afford to take rusty player to the world cup?

Well our only other realistic Full Back options were Henson and Stoddard.
Were looking a bit bare there arent we.

Gatts wrote:Will Nugget go? Great stand in for Sam...what are the options?

Yeah let him go to the World Cup for a final farewell, but only play him against Namibia as captain. Great ending to a World class career, and a fantastic servant to the Welsh cause.
To be fair he did retire and was begged to come back till the world Cup, he has held his end up, so to kick him out just as we find Warburton would be unfair.
Tipurics time will come and keeping a World Cup carrot in front of him for the next 4 years will keep him hungry.

North will be world class if he continues to mature at the rate he has been.

AlynDavies wrote:

mpc28 wrote:I see your point Alyn but can we afford to take rusty player to the world cup?

Well our only other realistic Full Back options were Henson and Stoddard.
Were looking a bit bare there arent we.

That depends on Gatland i guess, we know Preistland and Hook can do a job there and Halfpenney and Shane have both filled in there for a half.

AlynDavies wrote:

mpc28 wrote:I see your point Alyn but can we afford to take rusty player to the world cup?

Well our only other realistic Full Back options were Henson and Stoddard.
Were looking a bit bare there arent we.

Gatts wrote:Will Nugget go? Great stand in for Sam...what are the options?

Yeah let him go to the World Cup for a final farewell, but only play him against Namibia as captain. Great ending to a World class career, and a fantastic servant to the Welsh cause.
To be fair he did retire and was begged to come back till the world Cup, he has held his end up, so to kick him out just as we find Warburton would be unfair.
Tipurics time will come and keeping a World Cup carrot in front of him for the next 4 years will keep him hungry.

Does Gatland have the room for sentiment? I think MW would hate to go on those terms....he has a lot to offer as a leader and buffer to preserve Sam in the non crucial group games (to be fair that is only v Namibia!) Much as i want Nugget to go and agree he deserves it, is Tipuric the better choice for his rugby.

Gatts wrote:Does Gatland have the room for sentiment? I think MW would hate to go on those terms....he has a lot to offer as a leader and buffer to preserve Sam in the non crucial group games (to be fair that is only v Namibia!) Much as i want Nugget to go and agree he deserves it, is Tipuric the better choice for his rugby.

I think so... lets be honest Wales are not going there to win it are they, a fighting loss in the Quarters is the best we can hope for, or 4th place if we get very, very lucky. But no one will be suprised if we get knocked out at the pool stage, so why not let Martin have his final goodbye.

AlynDavies wrote:

Gatts wrote:Does Gatland have the room for sentiment? I think MW would hate to go on those terms....he has a lot to offer as a leader and buffer to preserve Sam in the non crucial group games (to be fair that is only v Namibia!) Much as i want Nugget to go and agree he deserves it, is Tipuric the better choice for his rugby.

I think so... lets be honest Wales are not going there to win it are they, a fighting loss in the Quarters is the best we can hope for, or 4th place if we get very, very lucky. But no one will be suprised if we get knocked out at the pool stage, so why not let Martin have his final goodbye.

Are you honestly suggesting someone should miss out on a world cup place because of sentiment?

I haven't long got back from the game. Questions are:

Was that a try? I didn't see the Argie ground it.

And how did Tavis get MOTM? His passing and decision making was atrocious, Phillips is far better in all departments for me now.

Byrne and JD2 will be lucky to make the bench on those displays. I rate Scott Williams quite highly, I think he'll go to NZ. I don't think Martyn will.

Yes it was a try.

mpc28 wrote:Are you honestly suggesting someone should miss out on a world cup place because of sentiment?

Well to be fair JT2 has only had a few minutes today, and you cant say he is better than Martyn based on their careers so far.
On what grounds can you say Tupiric (JT2) is better?
Martyn I feel is the better back up player at the moment, there isnt much he doesnt know and we have a lot of young kids in the back row already. Faletau, Warburton and Lydiate are all 20-21 so why not have a few older ones to help them while their about?

AlynDavies wrote:

mpc28 wrote:Are you honestly suggesting someone should miss out on a world cup place because of sentiment?

Well to be fair JT2 has only had a few minutes today, and you cant say he is better than Martyn based on their careers so far.
On what grounds can you say Tupiric (JT2) is better?
Martyn I feel is the better back up player at the moment, there isnt much he doesnt know and we have a lot of young kids in the back row already. Faletau, Warburton and Lydiate are all 20-21 so why not have a few older ones to help them while their about?

Im not suggesting JT2 is better but id say Turnbull would be a better option as he can play around the backrow and also in the 2nd row so would be a great option for the bench.

AlynDavies wrote:

Gatts wrote:Does Gatland have the room for sentiment? I think MW would hate to go on those terms....he has a lot to offer as a leader and buffer to preserve Sam in the non crucial group games (to be fair that is only v Namibia!) Much as i want Nugget to go and agree he deserves it, is Tipuric the better choice for his rugby.

I think so... lets be honest Wales are not going there to win it are they, a fighting loss in the Quarters is the best we can hope for, or 4th place if we get very, very lucky. But no one will be suprised if we get knocked out at the pool stage, so why not let Martin have his final goodbye.

I am not sure that not believing we are going to win it is part of the decision ref Nugget! I hope Gatland isn't that defeatist and I also think he is no sentimentalist. I think he knows his contract is up if we fail to get out of our group.

Yes we have the hardest group but we will beat Fiji - the crucial game - and if Ireland beat Aussies which I also think is possible then a semi place is eminently do able....eternal optimist/delusional as I am I think semis is on the cards. Fair enough lots of ifs but we are fitter, have a cutting edge at last and bar injury/FB and hooker look strong in depth 1-15. We do seem very prone to injury though...lots of calves crocked. Need to sort our set piece but momentum is there and jones proved his worth today. We all believe we will lose to SA but having watched our perfs in the last 3 weeks i am convinced our fitness and mobility will open games up in the 2nd half.

mpc28 wrote:
Im not suggesting JT2 is better but id say Turnbull would be a better option as he can play around the backrow and also in the 2nd row so would be a great option for the bench.

That would leave us with only one openside flanker at the World Cup............aint gonna happen (I hope). The breakdown is THE battleground where matches are won and lost, more so now than ever before.