What does the win over the All Blacks mean to the springbok campaign and their opposition.

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I think it is pretty much a question on many peoples lips. If you listen to the media, they believe the Springbks are a threat once again. Well to tell you the truth I don't think the win must be the issue here really.

For me the issue is how the individuals have performed. since the Lions tour in 2009 and the Tri Nations there after, the springboks have looked decidedly average. Very seldom did they show any real intensity or hunger. Sure there has been some continuous injuries during this period as well, but many of the world cup winning players just seemd to have lost complete form.

So I want to approach this from a different angle. Many years ago when I was playing club rugby for Edenvale in the Golden Lions second division we had to play Wanderers rugby club at home. They were the leading club in the second division just missing out on the premier division. Obviously this was in the amateur era so players didn't make much money. Our club was devided amongst the old guard and their boys and the new blood, so suffice to say there was really no cohesion or spirit in our team and club, we lost the match 60 - 14 ( can't remember the exact score, but it was humiliating). Any way, our last match of the season was against them at Wanderers rugby ground, our captain called everyone together and pleaded that for once, because it was our last game, let we put our differences aside and play for each other. Needless to say the weeks practice sessions went much better, and we lost the match by 40-24.

After the match I heard the captain of the opposing team say to his coach that this was not the same team they faced in the beginning of the season, where in fact it was exactly the same team, just a different attitude.

Now you may wonder what that has got to do with the Springboks. Well everything really. It is called attitude, hunger and motivation.

Clearly Bakkies Botha, Victor Matfield, Bryan Habana, Morne Steyn and a few others are all the same players, but yet the intensity and hunger they showed on the weekend was refreshing to see. there was commitment in the tackle, for the first time in 2 years we saw cover defenders getting there and making tackles. When was the last time we saw a cohesive scrum?

When was the last time we controlled the breakdown. Yes I know it wasn't the All Black first choice team, and yes Richie McCAw and Read would have made a big difference to the break dwons, but that is not the point I am trying to make. It is about the effort and guts the springboks showed that has been so lacking over the past two years.

Bakkies Botha was smiling during the match, haggling with the opposition, the last time I saw him enjoying himself like that was when he winked at Phillips during the British and Irish Lions series.

what makes me sit up and take notice, is for the first time in two years, the Boks looked like they wanted to win, yes there are still players that need game time, and some work needs to be done on attack.

At least now I know they are going there with attitude and hunger, we all know sport is 80% mental and that will make them a different team to the one we saw in the last 2 years.

So far since the end of the Super 15,we have seen a series of warm up games by NH,and a Shadow 3Ns by SH.
In many of the warm up games whole squads were changed,England won a game versus Wales narrowly.
The following week with a much changed side the lost to a gritty win to Wales
Despite England dominating set piece possession after the match.Toby
Flood went on record with Planet Rugby.Stating they were following orders
to carry out set piece back moves,and turned down kickable points.
Even when this was`nt working,they persisted.
England play Ireland on Saturday presumably a third Combination chasing an Ireland looking for a first warm up match win.
Wales then had a comfortable win,against a rusty Argentina side that was
willing.Argentina had trouble with there set pieces[uncharcteristically for an Argentina side],and missed several kickable goals.
They[Argentina] were comfortable ball in hand and first half at least .and made sevaral clean breaks only for there handling to let them down.
Wales scored a couple of well worked tries at the end of the First Half against the run of play.
Welsh 824 MY STATEMENT printed above,refered to Argentina missing goal kicks,and possibly tries down to poor finishing.[my statement was ambiguos sorry].
Lievremont is supposed to be a clown,but has twice beaten the fancied Ireland ,with virtually two seperate teams.I do not know enough of the
Irish team to judge how strong the sides in questions were before any one has a go at me.
Scotland have had a couple of wins,Tonga,Samoa,and Fiji have had some good wins and losses to.Japan have looked very useful,running Italy close,beating Canada,and winning Pacific Island trophy earlier in the year.
Of the 3Ns only two matches are of real significance Aus v NZ when NZ won handily.
Aus versus Boks when Aus won a scrappy match with a gritty win,had Boks taken the right options Morne Steyn would have kicked them to victory.
Most significant was the number of Scrum resets and collapses,and the brief period when Smit was Propping the SA scrum was monstered.
The other match Boks versus a scratch All Blacks side I can`t even dignyfy it
by calling it a B side. To see a series of line breaks ruined by,dropped passes,losing balls in tackles,knock ons,unloading into space.
Trying to be clever doing little chip kicks apparently to order,instead running straight at people and commiting the tackle,or kicking for territory.
It made me angry watching the ineptitude,the mindless bashing there heads against a brick wall and not having someone with the wit to change tactics.
I was angry NOT for the players but the men who to sent them out to be slaughtered.The Scrums actually stayed up,until Van Der linde,and Smit came on then they started going down,
A fired up BOKside playing for pride using a conservative game plan won well. Good on them.People should`nt be getting away with fielding scratch sides.Sadly it has become inevitable with the work load of players especially
in a RWC year.
Finally in the Boks group ,SA will get better and have the game for RWC,
Wales if they play to there full potential COULD win all there matches,if they
treat teams like Samoa and Fiji lightly.It could be a repeat of 2007.
Englands group is to close to call,all 3 sides could top the group,or it could be a stale mate.
With due respect there is no way. Aus,Ireland,NZ or France won`t get out of there groups but not perhaps in that order.

fair assesment , cnt fault it

Alan i agree tbey have the game i just dont belive they have tbe players to execute it successfully 3 times in a row in nz.
At home at full strength against a team which had perhaps one first team back they had i hear over 23 line breaks where potentially 6 tries could have been scored.
In nz those breaks will become tries then it doesnt matter what steyn does.

i disagree , the boks will have enough momentum coming from the Group stages and a springbok juggernaut on the roll is hard to contain even for the all blacks. They do have the players ! most of them have been there and done it before and can sure as hell do it one last time .

actually i dnt get that sentiment at all . they dont have the players to execute it succesfully 3 times in a row???

I think we might not just kick, that is certainly not all our game is about. to think only that might just bite whichever opposition coach that bargains on that in the backside.

There is far too much being made out of the fact that we didn't score a try in the last 2 matches.

Our B team scored 2 tries vs Oz and 1 vs the all Blacks over there, and we all know they aren't our best players.

Perhaps. None of the B match ups really tell us much as there were completely different motivations to a world cup knockout. They were more about individuals finding form and for a little experimentation with combinations.

Knockout is one on one as we know and come semi time- NZ SA isnt it likely from memory? I'm not sure if SA, bringing largely but not all the same players from 2007 using the same game plan will do it. Just don't think it says much about the overall progress of rugby in the last 4 years.

Its an ongoing argument we'll have until the day of the match I suppose- at which time 'anything can happen' but bullsbok in our experience pool play counts for nothing- having never actually lost one- or even gone near losing one as far as I know.

I'm glad you've mention that so tell me ,how has your expansive gameplan worked for you in the playoffs

so yes the Ab will dominate probably embarrass every team they meet right up to the semi final where they're going to try and run the ball against a bok team sniffing the finishing line ............with no mental block to worry about

That's one way of viewing it and I can't argue with it. Execution being the issue at knockout time as it was last weekend. What do you suggest we do? Go through the last 4 years with a 85% record using that style up to and including pool play then neglect it completely come knockouts?

And adopt what style. Up and unders, try for SA style pressure penalties, drop goals- all the things we despise and arent good at?

We need to ensure our execution is correct- something within our control. the SA game needs to rely on the opposition faltering and making mistakes- something I suggest is harder to control.

The SA formula has seldom worked last 2 years, over many tests, ours has seldom worked over 2 or 3 tests- go figure...

i agree with you there, our formula hasnt worked much in 2010 . Afterall two vital ingredients of tht formula were absent in 2010 (brussow and fdp ) but when it matters most our formula is tried and tested in the toughest of situations .

To some up our formula's been crap duriing the last two years while yours has blossomed.Yours however has failed when it mattered most ..multiple times . Nuff said ,

Bokkie
Over the last few weeks I have been convinced that the Springboks won't win the World Cup, But I wouldn't bet against you guys defending it.

Less and less over the last few years the Boks have been affected by the quick turn around fly/in fly/out travel,especially at S.15 level. and apart from the Bulls component most of the Springboks have been here and played several times in the last few months.At the WC the surroundings will be familiar to all the players,they will be here almost at their leisure,and not have to worry about getting home for a game the following weekend.
they will be more than ever be capable of executing their particular game plan here in New Zealand.Do you see this as a factor?

Think Aussies and Boks will be much much more comfortable playing in NZ than other teams but the prospect of playing the AB in Eden park is just scary regardless of conditions or gameplan

the South Africans will be surprised at the support they get at the two North harbour games, the number of SA expats living on the North shore is huge. although in saying that i dont your guys are too concerned about who is in the crowd.

Guys, you can debate this from your various points of view as we have been doing it for some time now.

Once again there is a world cup where SA and NZ are destined to meet, you will see one team with dogged determination, conservative play, definitely some exciting gameplays until they meet the other team, who will until the point of meeting us have mullered all in front of them, who will play their brand of rugby, and ultimately it should have been the final match up.

Will be as nervous as hell, but can't wait.

Seems to be a lot of talk from Wales....we haven't beaten SA in over 10 years but that run has to end some time and the feeling is that with a young fit squad, try scorers and a decent defence, we could do it. but lets be realistic here. I think SA will kick all day knowing that even on opposing line out they are going to win a huge percentage of ball.
The scrum will be better for Wales and no advantage there to SA. I hope Wales continue to work on their fitness and defence; if they get any early advantage. I think SA will try and bully them which is a forward battle Wales won't win but, with Warbs/Lydiate and Faletau, we may gain something like parity at the breakdown.
Its going to be Young guns versus old bulls and while I think Wales can beat SA, especially in the backs, i am not convinced we have the front row to do it.

Boks should win their group and play Ireland in the quarter before going on to play NZ in the semi.

I think if NZ are going to choke it will be there but really, i don't expect them to this time.

Gatts, our forward pack isn't that old mate.

Beast is 26
Bismarck is 26
Jannie is 28
Victor is 33
Bakkies 32
Burger 28/ Brussouw 25
Willem alberts 26
Spies 26


Probably one of the younger forward packs

would expect John smit to play 40 minutes as well he is 33
Danie russouw 32

But overall not as old as you would think.

And when we play Wales we don't kick much more than you do.

Nov 2010 kicks from hand SA 25, wales 18
June 2010 kicks from hand SA 32 Wales 28

It is a fallicy that we are the only team that kicks.

Not suggesting old as in past it, but more in terms of experience, old heads versus youngsters. I don't see that as a huge disadvantage to either side...Wales are young dumb and full of it and the boks have been there, seen it and beaten it. It will be an interesting game because if Wales can compete up front then Wales do now have the fitness and try scorers to make their mark. That is a recent development and it should allow them to capitalise on their oldest weapon...heads up rugby in the 2nd half. That said if we go out against SA without concentrating in the first quarter it will be a bad day at the office.

Likewise with regard to kicking, i know SA are slated for kicking but in this case it seems entirely logical they would use touch to slow the Welsh game and exploit a lamentable lineout - our hooker problem may well be our undoing.

yes gatts you cant find good hookers now a days, oh different type...

tbf bennet has been doing well and the welsh team are young and confident and in all honesty have such a potent backline-back row will be an interesting battle as i am sure many Saffers wont heard much about warbs, lydiate and Toby F and our front row is pretty strong with an essentially all ospreys front 5 (probably best scrummaging team in europe) lineout will be interesting but surely with this time they can improve that more and i think S.A might be shocked at how raring wales are for the match- like you said the losing streak has to end, why not septembet the 11th?

biltongbek wrote:Guys, you can debate this from your various points of view as we have been doing it for some time now.
Will be as nervous as hell, but can't wait.

I know...Isnt it great how we can regurtitate the same rubbish almost at will under all this pressure...love this game...

Starting to get nervous too Biltong, and for us its a little different as we get all the extra's- the tourist influx, the daily goings on of the whole event in towns, cities, schools etc- complete and utter rugby chaos for a few weeks...isnt it great...

The welsh game will be very very interesting . The Springbok bench should be the difference at the 60th minute mark. What other country will have players on the bench who would walk into the starting XV of most nations !!

16.Bismarck 17.CJ van de linde 18. Schalk Burger 19.De Jongh 20. Danie 21. Hougaard 22.Butch James