Dwight Qawi - Is He Over Rated?

Sorry not been on much lately. (Not that many of you will have even noticed!)
This went through my mind quite a bit a while ago when I was watching him fight Holyfield on a repeat on ESPN Classic.

Now, clearly Qawi was a good boxer, achieved far better than most, however do we over rate him somewhat? Let's revisit his career a second:

Dwight started off his career in the Light Heavyweight Division and in honesty watching his early fights didn't really look like he was ever going to be abe to do it on the world stage, had an early loss and didn't look particularly impressive against not very impressive opposition. However full credit because he prevailed and most importantly kept on winning, he got all the way to the top and took on Matthew Saad Muhammad knocking him out in 10, full credit because this is a massive win on anyones ledger. However let's be fair, it is quite evident in this win that Saad Muhammad was past it at this stage in his career, he defended his title against decent opposition but no real stand out guys, just respectable fighters, such as Eddie Davis (23 - 2) and Jerry Martin (22 - 3) he also rematched Saad Muhammad and won more emphatically but again, Muhammad was only more faded at this moment in time.

Dwight then went up against a real quality level live opposition in Michael Spinks, he was handily outboxed but his aggression and willingness to come forward won him rounds, but watching back at the fight he was most certainly well beaten by a better technician (No shame in this of course) After his first defeat Dwight went back to fighting domestic level fighters and moved up a weight division to Cruiser. Dwight fought for the WBA Cruiserweight title against an extremely protected fighter in Piet Crous, though coming in it was seen as quite a tough even fight, realistically Crous had never gone in with anyone real and had been protected all the way to be a paper champion. Dwight defended against what can only really be called below par opposition until he came up against a very young Holyfield.

Now most people would have said there is absolutely no shame in losing to Holyfield (Which I fully understand) however at this moment in time Holyfield had only had 11 pro fights and was being chucked in fast, if Dwight ever had a chance against Hoylfield this was his best chance, however he was outpointed in a really good tough war of a fight. A fight which won a lot of fans for Qawi for his aggression and never say die attitude. Qawi fought no one of real note until he rematched Holyfield and was seriously well beaten getting Ko'd in 4. Dwight moved from heavy to cruiser and only really had one more significant fight which was against Foreman and was knocked out in 7.

Taking all this in mind do we overrate Qawi? Looking at him without rose tinted glasses do we rate him higher than we usually would due to the fact that he overcame odds in a big weight division and only being 5 feet 5 and loved his warring style but just living off two wins against a past it Saad Muhammad and a good scrap against Holyfield? No doubt he was a good fighter but he rates high in Cruiser although he did virtually nothing and never really amounted to too much more than a alphabet champ in reality, every time he stepped up a level he was beaten back down. Now I'm not saying Dwight was a bad fighter because he most certainly did achieve much more than a typical fighter but I feel he is more standout in the Cruiserweight division due to the lack of real quality there and picked up a belt in the weight division lower, does his record truly overshadow someone of an Enzo Maccarinelli type character?

I wittered on a bit but what you guys think?

No...A guy who was 5ft 6 at 175 + and beat good fighters deserves to be mentioned as a quality fighter...

Holy regards him highly and so he should he only nicked a split in a complete war at cruiser..

Anyone who saw that fight could never over rate Qawi....

Quality..

Not saying he is bad or anything Truss, but I feel he is somewhat over rated just purely because of the facts you mentioned. To be fair also he nicked a split decision, but I think the one judge that gave it to him must have been on crystal meth, Holy rather clearly won it in my opinion. Let's face a cold hard fact he never really beat anyone of major quality and gets off lightly pretty much just because of his style and people liked him.

Nobody thinks he's great.....Just quality which he is......Saad Muhammad was being lined up for a unification with Spinks..he was quality!!!!!

Have never thought much of either Saad Muhammad or Qawi to be quite honest so do consider the pair of them to be fairly over rated especially Qawi who other than Saad Muhammad has next to nothing on his resume.

Muhammad was quality, at one point he was being lined up for unifications, but he was past it at that point and I don't think you could really argue that.

Also I'm not saying he was a great but I do feel he is rated way higher, I mean when people are talking about the best Cruisers people say Holyfield, Haye and Qawi, what has Qawi done except become a paper champ at Cruiser and lose everytime he steps up? What are his credentials really for being rated as a better cruiser than iron chinned Maccarinelli? (The iron chinned was a joke)

Not sure that Saad Muhammad was past it when Qawi beat him, he was only 27 and hadn't looked like losing a fight for years.

As for Qawi while I don't rate him all that highly and his high placing at cruiserweight is more down to a lack of quality at the weight, can only assume you're joking when you're even considering Maccarinelli in the same breath as him.

I don't think Maccarinelli was better than Qawi, but realistically looking at what they achieved at Cruiser... where is the huge difference?

I wouldn't say he's overrated at all - he's regarded by most as a very fine fighter but not a great one, which is the perfect evaluation of him. Keeping in mind that he had absolutely no amateur career at all and a slow start in the paid ranks, we should celebrate his achievements as they were highly unlikely in the first place.

Good fighter indeed, but wouldn't worry anyone's top fifteen or so Light-Heavyweights of all time, so not overrated for my money.

Fair enough Chris, I was never saying he was going to get up there in the LHW divison, but I seriously don't like how over rated he has been at Cruiser which to be fair doesn't enjoy the same type of satisfaction in terms of amazing quality as the LHW division is, but you look at his record in the Cruiser division and tell me he's in the top 3 Cruisers of all time?

I can see Macca going a hard fifteen with Evander and dropping a split can you???

Personally he's waaaaaaay ahead of Enzo for me mate....

The Holy 1st fight alone.... forgetting 175 puts him ahead for me...

Enzo was garbage.

So you're saying because he lost to Holyfield his record is better than other paper champs... ok.

He wasn't a paper champion...If you knew your stuff you'd know Saad Muhammad was highly respected..

AlexHuckerby wrote:Fair enough Chris, I was never saying he was going to get up there in the LHW divison, but I seriously don't like how over rated he has been at Cruiser which to be fair doesn't enjoy the same type of satisfaction in terms of amazing quality as the LHW division is, but you look at his record in the Cruiser division and tell me he's in the top 3 Cruisers of all time?

Purely on achievements he probably wouldn't make a top three all-time Cruiserweight list, but the main body of his work lies at 175 lb, as we know. I think a key factor is that Qawi, in anything like his prime years, was never brutally exposed as an average fighter the way the likes of Maccarinelli has. While his statistics may not necessarily put him ahead of Enzo at Cruiserweight, he was without doubt a more impressive individual fighter at 200 lb (or 190 lb as it was back then). I'm pretty sure that Qawi could have similarly racked up a few defences against the Bobby Gunn-type fighters of this world, too. Losing admirably to the greatest Cruiserweight of them all and getting knocked out by (relative) non-entities such as Ofalabi, Lebedev and Frenkel are two very different things.

I see what you're saying in a sense that Maccarinelli arguably won more so-called 'title fights' at the weight, but I'd still have Qawi ahead of Enzo in the Cruiserweight rankings every single day of the week. As I said, that's largely irrelevant given that Light-Heavyweight was his best weight class, but that's just my take on it.

Very good take as well...

If Maccarinelli is a top 10 cruiser then let's get rid of the division....

Cut all this paper champ nonsense too...

WBC champ when it meant something and won against a quality champ..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Very good take as well...

If Maccarinelli is a top 10 cruiser then let's get rid of the division....

Cut all this paper champ nonsense too...

WBC champ when it meant something and won against a quality champ..

Who said Macca is a top ten cruiser? What I said was what are the standout factors that make him stand out from the crowd from someone such as a Maccarinelli type of fighter (I wasn't using Macca specfically)and when you look at it, he did nothing at cruiser to be noted, apart from being beaten by - and I will say this again - an 11 fight pro green fighter in Holyfield.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: I can see Macca going a hard fifteen with Evander and dropping a split can you???

Personally he's waaaaaaay ahead of Enzo for me mate....

The Holy 1st fight alone.... forgetting 175 puts him ahead for me...

Enzo was garbage.

Cue Steffan and Super D Boon.

Enzo wasnt outclassed by Haye apprantley! And was outboxing him

I actually watched that again last night, David landed the more solid shots and did far more than Enzo, he's watching hat with rose tinted glasses, or pro-welsh tinted ones at the very least.

Macca would have beaten Qawi who was too short. Qawi just a slugger, beat a bunch of crap cruisers and was solid but unspectacular at light heavy, thorughly outboxed by Spinks. Macca wins. Too tall and has better fundamentals.

Yes in fact I think Gavin Rees would have aswell...

Of course Maccarinelli beats Qawi, it's so obvious and while we're at it Enzo takes Holyfield the distance.

Enzo is the best Cruiser of all time he has better fundamentals than anyone, he just got unlucky against Afolabi - Haye - Frenkel being nigh on decapitated by them.

Guffaw as you might peasants but why is it so hard to see Macca beating Qawi? I aint saying Macca does Holy though okay? But a 6ft 4ins vs 5ft 6ins fighter there's a huge adavantage there already.

Enzo had a good solid jab when he used it properly and pre Haye there was a period when Enzo had a purple patch peaking at beating a solid former champion in Big Truck Braithwaite by a throughly dominant UD. Because of Enzo's horrific fall from grace post Haye people forget he was a fairly decent (no I didn't say brilliant) champion.

So the great Evander Holyfield can only scrape a victory over Qawi despite having a big size advantage but Maccarinelli then beats him too, makes little sense. Enzo will go down as one of britains worst ever world champions alongside Arthur and Rees.

Can't agree with that, Super D. The size difference between Holyfield and Maccarinelli isn't much, if anything at all (hence Enzo wanting to rebuild at 175 lb). Robin Reid, Duke McKenzie and Junior Witter were better examples of Brits who were 'fairly decent' champions, Maccarinelli isn't. Don't see him beating Qawi, to be honest.

Any Welsh world champion beats Qawi, what are you talking about?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:So the great Evander Holyfield can only scrape a victory over Qawi despite having a big size advantage but Maccarinelli then beats him too, makes little sense. Enzo will go down as one of britains worst ever world champions alongside Arthur and Rees.

The "great" Evander had only a handful of fights before the first Qawi fight, so was not yet great at this point yet he still managed to beat the much more expreienced Qawi, yet slaughtered him in the second fight. Besides, anyone saying that Wlad Klitscho was "atrocious" against Haye but still won by a clear, clear UD is someone who's opinion I don't respect.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: I can see Macca going a hard fifteen with Evander and dropping a split can you???

Personally he's waaaaaaay ahead of Enzo for me mate....

The Holy 1st fight alone.... forgetting 175 puts him ahead for me...

Enzo was garbage.

Cue Steffan and Super D Boon.

Enzo wasnt outclassed by Haye apprantley! And was outboxing him

Show me a post where I have said that Enzo wasnt outclassed and was outboxing Haye

I dont think you will though...

Huh Steffan, run away why don't you! Two of us against the rest and you quit on your stool!

I saw the Haye/Macca fight as fairly even until Haye landed one and two hayemakers. I thought Macca had his moments that's why I don't see it as being "outclassed". Depends on your perceptions although the result is TKO2 Haye so it really don't matter that much. Just that I think big Enz gets a hard rap on this forum when I thought he was a decent champ for a short while.

Forgot though Steff, you save all your love for the Clev these days!

Super D Boon wrote:Huh Steffan, run away why don't you! Two of us against the rest and you quit on your stool!

I saw the Haye/Macca fight as fairly even until Haye landed one and two hayemakers. I thought Macca had his moments that's why I don't see it as being "outclassed". Depends on your perceptions although the result is TKO2 Haye so it really don't matter that much. Just that I think big Enz gets a hard rap on this forum when I thought he was a decent champ for a short while.

Forgot though Steff, you save all your love for the Clev these days!

You completely misunderstood what I said. I was merely challenging Soldier Of Fortune to back up his post. Big Mac always gets a bad rap on here but the fact is (much like Cleverly) he is hated by all on this messageboard like he was on the old 606. Its pointless trying to make them think otherwise about him. The fact is, Nikolai Valuev aside, David Haye is the worst champion in the history of the heavyweight division. If you say this though they immediately back up their golden boy (Haye will save the division. Haye is the new Ali etc.). You cant educate these people im afraid they dont want to know. And for the record if the Clev fought Macca then I would cheer on Enzo

Haye compared to the genuine heavyweight champions doesn't come stack up well but compare him to the very average paper champions of the past 10 years and he comes off quite well, big difference between being a genuine champion and a belt holder.

Boon I couldn't give a toss if you do not respect my opinion, were it someone with an ounce of sense I make take notice but it's you poor fella.

Back on topic please. To my knowledge Qawi and Enzo never fought, nor was a fight between the two mooted (not, I suppose, beyond the matchmaking of Frank Warren).

For the record - the Haye-Enzo fight was even except for the particular that Haye's chin, whilst slightly dodgy, was infinitely better than Enzo's shortcrust pastry chin. The fight went 2 rounds. What more could there be to discuss?

In terms of record - Qawi's isn't overwhelming. However - reputation at the time goes a long way and matters a great deal. Ali's win over Cleveland Williams wouldn't be anything unless we knew how highly the cat was rated as a contender of yesteryear. As such and given the manner of Ali's performance - people see it as his best win. (Of course - Cleveland's team practically had to dig him up before the fight and defibrillate him between rounds against Ali - but that's neither here nor there)

Yada yada, everyone hates every welsh fighter on here, everyone hates Cleverly merely for questioning whether he could mix with the best at his weight despite the fact that as a "world" champion that would seem a relatively reasonable question. Everyone hates Enzo, some have even gone as far as to suggest he is chinny, ridiculous, even Wilde gets no respect on here, the same Wilde that was voted the best British fighter EVER on one of Ghosty's "pointless" best ever lists. Either change the record or learn to argue this one with a bit more reason and logic.

Boon I did the ATG lists as it was requested of me to do it and has garnered a very good response from the posters whom are interested in the history of the sport, if you don't like it then just ignore it but this forum is designed to appeal to everyone not just you and Steffan.

I respect many fighters of today but I give no respect to the paper champions who do not deserve the title of world champion, as far I can see Mayweather, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Marquez, Martinez and many other fighters are current but strangely I have the upmost respect for them.

Calzaghe has been retired for years lol

deayr me, got a bit highjacked this one.

for the record. i rate qawi quite highly, served his apprenticeship in a penetentiary, no amateur background late to the game, overcame physical size disadvantages. Might not be many names on his record, but as pointed out earlier, saad muhammed only looked shot after the first fight with braxton as he was then. He was prime when they fought. Holy only had 11 prop fights but had a long successful amateur background.

quality tough guy fighter, i'd say the consensus has him about right... not a great, but pretty damn good

Steffan wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Huh Steffan, run away why don't you! Two of us against the rest and you quit on your stool!

I saw the Haye/Macca fight as fairly even until Haye landed one and two hayemakers. I thought Macca had his moments that's why I don't see it as being "outclassed". Depends on your perceptions although the result is TKO2 Haye so it really don't matter that much. Just that I think big Enz gets a hard rap on this forum when I thought he was a decent champ for a short while.

Forgot though Steff, you save all your love for the Clev these days!

You completely misunderstood what I said. I was merely challenging Soldier Of Fortune to back up his post. Big Mac always gets a bad rap on here but the fact is (much like Cleverly) he is hated by all on this messageboard like he was on the old 606. Its pointless trying to make them think otherwise about him. The fact is, Nikolai Valuev aside, David Haye is the worst champion in the history of the heavyweight division. If you say this though they immediately back up their golden boy (Haye will save the division. Haye is the new Ali etc.). You cant educate these people im afraid they dont want to know. And for the record if the Clev fought Macca then I would cheer on Enzo

Got better things to do steff. Dont think anyone hates Enzo, but to say he was having the better Haye is laughable whilst also suggesting he beats Qawi.

Id like to see you pull a quote were someone suggested Haye was the new Ali Pure desperation

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Got better things to do steff. Dont think anyone hates Enzo, but to say he was having the better Haye is laughable whilst also suggesting he beats Qawi.

Show me a quote where I said Enzo was having the better of Haye or where I said ge beats Qawi. Fool

Steffan wrote:Enzo was outboxing Haye before he got brutally stopped

Steffan wrote:If Enzo fought Qawi Prime for Prime, Enzo would win a clear UD as he had better fundementals and would keep him at bay with his long jab

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Steffan wrote:Enzo was outboxing Haye before he got brutally stopped

Steffan wrote:If Enzo fought Qawi Prime for Prime, Enzo would win a clear UD as he had better fundementals and would keep him at bay with his long jab

I never posted that you stupid fool. Either Super D Boon or you just made that up

Good attempt though

Steffan wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Steffan wrote:Enzo was outboxing Haye before he got brutally stopped

Steffan wrote:If Enzo fought Qawi Prime for Prime, Enzo would win a clear UD as he had better fundementals and would keep him at bay with his long jab

I never posted that you stupid fool. Either Super D Boon or you just made that up

Good attempt though

Have to say in conclusion that Qawi is a strange fighter to pick on and that as nobody ever regarded him as anything but a good fighter it's hard to assume he's overrated..

No.

In fact, Holyfield himself has said:

During his career Holyfield fought every major name, including Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, James Toney, Nikolai Valuev, Michael Moorer and several others. But it was his first championship fight, fifteen rounds at cruiserweight against Dwight Muhammad Qawi (41-11-1, 25 KOs) in 1986, that he found to be the toughest fight of his life.

"The hardest fight for me was for the title at cruiserweight against Dwight Qawi. I won, but after the fight I spent the entire week lying in the hospital and I never wanted to return to the ring [after that]", Holyfield said.

Source: Boxing Scene