Wales to be the Argentina of this RWC...?

Well...!

After an interesting evening at dinner with a few old friends in london this evening a french friend of mine said that he had heard chat in the Castres RC last week from an Argentinian friend who considered Wales to be the Argentina of the 2011 RWC.

I had never thought of my beloved home country as a surprise candidate for such a competition but on reflection of our record I can see his point.

Wales have lurked in the doldrums of World Rugby for almost thirty years now, occasionally poking our head out of mediocrity, or worse, to surprise ourselves with the odd Grand Slam or beating of a SA or Australia, though never the elusive NZ.


As a man who grew up in the glory days of Welsh Rugby where we seemed to be perinnially on top of Europe, and with a majority of Lions players, the world. But this was pre-RWC.

Since the RWC's inauguration we have achieved no better than a third place, every other cup has been dire. Therefor we should be ranked, as the IRB place us, as an outsider. We should not, and do not, consider ourselves a candidate.

Though I must say, my friends words added a certain glisten to our prospects.

When asked after, what I thought of Wales' prospects I certainly said that I was very much looking forward to this RWC, definitely far more than the many previous, but I don't see us as a bogie team for the big three. After my friends words, I feel a little more excited though, I must admit.

What do you reckon?


Are Wales the Argentina of the 2011 RWC ? The underestimated force...?

It is diffcult to say Wales are under estimated, it is rather a case of what the fans see and think and what the coach, management and players see.

Last night at the send off of the springboks the players were talking about their first match vs wales, they all respect them and admit it will be a good match up.

but they all believe that if they go out there and do what must be done they will win.

That means australia should be Wales' quarter final opponents, and that will be a tough nut to crack.

Argentina got as far as they did courtesy of having tough forwards and good territorial game, the ingredients everyone complains about but knows wins rugby world cup matches.

They also found their plan worked against France, twice. Now I see Wales game plan more in the mould of france and not the gungho powerful pack Argentina had. So breakdown dominance is essential in world cups, can wales do that?

If Wales had all their first choice forwards fit and firing they would potentially have that 'gunho powerful pack' but key injuries to Rees and Jenkins make that impossible imo.

unfortunately not enough to nullify a very good springbok pack

The difference in 2007,was the goal kicking,especially drop kicking of
Hernandez.Wales do not fit the pattern of RWC formula post 1991,a dominant pack,solid defence,Great goal kicker.
They like to mix it up and run too,they could well be the surprise packet
this year.
When you consider the 6Ns teams like Ireland,Wales,France,England,even Scotland.Fancy there chances versus each other.
Ireland and Scotland have some form versus SH sides as does England and France.
Put them in a RWC,England and to a lesser extent France they underachieve.There is a very real chance Samoa or Fiji will knock someone out at the group stage.
Englands group,may well be the group of death,with a stalemate between the big 3 sides.
With respect Ireland and France look certain to reach the qtrs.The same is not something you could say of the other group.

emack2 wrote:

Englands group,may well be the group of death,


Ireland and France look certain to reach the qtrs.

not sure i agree with either of these comments.

wales will do better this time than last, ie go out in the quaters

interesting view, i think the welsh fans never see ourselves as full on contenders but dont see ourselves or outsiders we think we are solid and in the middle hence the disapointment of 2007.

i think one thing wales have currently got is confidence something they have lacked in a while. also i do think the SH teams do underestimate us, i mean S.A know about the likes of north but he has improved and then there are the fairly unknown elements of the back row and the likes of priestland and scott williams. i mean i spoke to my WELSH auntie and she said about warburton and she had no idea who he was, so i am hoping in that respect teams underestimate us, another thing is unussually there have been no media antics from gatland bigging up the team which is slightly worrying and almost leads me to believe its like the calmness before the storm (well more hoping than believing but...)

We are middle of the pack.Not brilliant.Not useless.We have a few great players and a few average players.If we all click and peak on the day,super-dooper!If our top players have a poor day,oh dear!
If everyone plays to their maximum we will do fine.
Drat!There goes the bragging Taff cliche.

I'm quietly confident that we will do well but I really do believe that we will do better in 2015.

maestegmafia wrote:Are Wales the Argentina of the 2011 RWC ?

I'd rather not be. The next four years look rather bleak if we're to follow the Pumas' 2007 cycle.

If we're going to fantasize the unlikely, I'd much rather let my eyes glaze at the image of us hoisting the trophy aloft by the end of it all. By the time England rolls around, we may then enjoy fans from other nations harping on about being the Wales of 2015 when referencing the possibility of winning it. Let that thought linger for a while and enjoy the sensations

For that to happen though we'll have to play like machines, literally or optimistic madmen whose spirit will not be crushed regardless of how many times they stumble. The latter attitude alone will stun opposition into defeat.

Come on people, it's the last day of the win a Russia RWC top today, so get your entry in here, it will only take you 30 seconds...

https://www.606v2.com/t11894-win-a-signed-rwc-jersey

Wales won't beat both Samoa and Fiji so an early exit is on the cards.

Good to see some optimism but I think 3rd in the group is Wales' limit this time around. Might do better in 2015 depending on the draw.

Also, like in other posts I fail to see how doing badly in previous competitions means you are likely to do better this time around. Beggars belief.

Samoa could be the Argentina of this world cup though. Hope so.

I cant see how Wales can beat South Africa, Wales are dangerous but the SA scramble defence is brilliant, and their lineout the best in the world.
Every aspect of Welsh play that South Africa needs to be weak for them to take maximum advantage is what Wales faults are. Our lineout is awful, our hookers panic and cant throw straight. Our game only works against teams who are cack at reorganising their defence quickly, and South Africa are brilliant at it.

welshy824 wrote:interesting view, i think the welsh fans never see ourselves as full on contenders but dont see ourselves or outsiders we think we are solid and in the middle hence the disapointment of 2007.

i think one thing wales have currently got is confidence something they have lacked in a while. also i do think the SH teams do underestimate us, i mean S.A know about the likes of north but he has improved and then there are the fairly unknown elements of the back row and the likes of priestland and scott williams. i mean i spoke to my WELSH auntie and she said about warburton and she had no idea who he was, so i am hoping in that respect teams underestimate us, another thing is unussually there have been no media antics from gatland bigging up the team which is slightly worrying and almost leads me to believe its like the calmness before the storm (well more hoping than believing but...)

You spoke too soon my friend, Gatland has had a go at the Springboks, saying we play very little rugby.

Now if his team goes in with the belief we play very little rugby, then they are in for a surprise.

....................................... I wonder what we do when there is a lineout, a scrum, a breakdown, and if we kick on average 27 times in a match, I wonder what we do with the other 80 possessions during the match?

I too found it quite odd to accuse the current rugby world cup holders of not playing rugby very odd indeed .And the whole we know what the springboks are going to do story , my 3 year old niece could tell you wat the Boks are going to do , that dont mean you can beat them . The way Gatland and his boys are mouthing off you'd think they're playing the EMERGING Springboks on sunday not the World Champs.

welshy824 wrote:i think one thing wales have currently got is confidence something they have lacked in a while. also i do think the SH teams do underestimate us, i mean S.A know about the likes of north but he has improved and then there are the fairly unknown elements of the back row and the likes of priestland and scott williams. i mean i spoke to my WELSH auntie and she said about warburton and she had no idea who he was, so i am hoping in that respect teams underestimate us

I'm not sure that it follows from your auntie not knowing who warburton is that the springboks etc will underestimate him. He's played brilliantly recently and is your captain after all.

Shocking by Gatland. Just when he was quiet for a minute, WHAM!, he hands the opposition an adrenaline boost. Holly Wilaboobie!

Not sure how effective it is, but for me the best chance lower ranked nations have of an upset against the top 3 is a snatch and grab raid, sneak up quietly before the game and catch them cold. All Gatland does by mouthing of is focus the opposition, give them something to play for that may not normally be in the mindset of world champions playing the lower ranked nations.

Not saying we have a chance of an upset, but the boks will be even more determined now.

Yes nottins we are all laughing at you.

Too true view.

biltongbek wrote:
You spoke too soon my friend, Gatland has had a go at the Springboks, saying we play very little rugby.

Now if his team goes in with the belief we play very little rugby, then they are in for a surprise.

....................................... I wonder what we do when there is a lineout, a scrum, a breakdown, and if we kick on average 27 times in a match, I wonder what we do with the other 80 possessions during the match?

Not sure I've seen this Bill. If Gatland did say that then wouldn't it be cancelled out by this compliment: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14779838.stm

nottins_jones wrote:

biltongbek wrote:
You spoke too soon my friend, Gatland has had a go at the Springboks, saying we play very little rugby.

Now if his team goes in with the belief we play very little rugby, then they are in for a surprise.

....................................... I wonder what we do when there is a lineout, a scrum, a breakdown, and if we kick on average 27 times in a match, I wonder what we do with the other 80 possessions during the match?

Not sure I've seen this Bill. If Gatland did say that then wouldn't it be cancelled out by this compliment: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14779838.stm

Evening nottins, yeah, I have read that, bit of a double edged sword. This is what he had to say.

"Gatland started to bait the Springboks in his first press conference in New Zealand on Monday, telling the gathered media that “the Boks play no rugby, nothing at all” and that he had them worked out. He also called on referee Wayne Barnes not to see a Welsh victory when the two sides met at Westpac stadium in the Pool D opener on Sunday as “an upset”. "

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/110904/Boks_will_do_their_talking_on_the_field

Let me put it as mildly as I can, Graham Henry started it, the opposing fans knows no other cliche about us, now Gatland starts it.

THe simple fact is, as I have said a few posts ago, if that is what they beleive, they will be in for a big surprise.

Good article, just hope it's not true though, that Gatland said that. I remember the last time the press and pundits started talking up Wales before a certain July test only for the Boks to go on to outplay us and win the game.


*EDIT: "The Springboks will do their talking on the field."
That will be true then. I remember Aus and NZ saying something similar in 2009 (would have been with this same group of players) to then also have SA beat them both in their backyards. Gatland may not have said it but it already seems everyone in SA thinks he has. Shame really, thought everything was going ok. I never backed us to beat the Boks anyway, had we beaten them back in the Autumn then I'd have more belief.