Wales vs Argentina

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 1:35 pm

Date: Saturday, November 16

Kick-off: 14:30 GMT

Venue: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)

Assistant referees: Steve Walsh (Australia), Lourens van der Merwe (South Africa)

Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

Assessor: Lyndon Bray (SANZAR)

The teams:

Wales:

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 George North, 13 Cory Allen, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Liam Williams, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Mike Phillips, 8 Toby Faletau, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Sam Warburton (c), 5 Alun-Wyn Jones, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Rhodri Jones, 2 Richard Hibbard, 1 Gethin Jenkins.

Replacements: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Samson Lee, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Ryan Jones, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Ashley Beck.

Argentina:

15 Joaquín Tuculet, 14 Horacio Agulla, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernández, 11 Santiago Cordero, 10 Nicolás Sanchez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Manuel Leguizamón (c), 7 Julio Farias Cabello, 6 Pablo Matera, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Maximiliano Bustos, 2 Eusebio Guiñazú, 1 Marcos Ayerza.

Replacements: 16 Santiago Iglesias Valdez, 17 Nahuel Lobo, 18 Matías Díaz, 19 Tomás Lavanini, 20 Leonardo Senatore, 21 Tomas Cubelli, 22 Gabriel Ascárate, 23 Lucas González Amorosino.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 15 Nov 2013, 1:40 pm

We have to start strong there is no other option for us, the longer the Pumas are in the game the stronger the resolve will become.

I am pretty sure they will target R Jones and Allen so we have to try and help/protect them in the early stages.

Am glad to see Ry Jones on the bench but no so Ll Williams, I really hope we can win this one not just comfortably but with a bit of style and not just rely on Leighs boot.

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 1:44 pm

I agree Beds,

Despite the result last week there were positives to take from the game. Though saying that the negatives far out way the positives.

Good stats have to be converted into points, players need to be on top of their game. This Argentina team are a good side, not as talented as last years but we really need to boss them around the park.

I hope we can...

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 1:59 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote: but no so Ll Williams

I noticed you mentioned a dislike for Williams elsewhere as well. What's the score? What has he done to disappoint you?

by Scrumpy Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:02 pm

Arg by 3

by jimmyinthewell68 Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:03 pm

i voted ten plus for Wales . despite the changes i think we ll come out running and they just come out kicking

by Casartelli Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:07 pm

It's Wales so almost anything could happen. I've been thinking about this for days and there are so many 'unknown variables' that it's impossible to predict a score with any degree of confidence. If we run at spaces rather than opponents we should win it comfortably, but it's likely to head down straight into contact, same as always.

With so many of our best players out, I'm tentatively forecasting a 15-15 draw.

by Guest Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:46 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Arg by 3

Just interested as to why you think that? I can see why people would fancy Argentina, but it would be nice to see a bit more of an attempt at a discussion.

I think Wales by less than 5, because now we have a game under our belts (different to last season) and I believe if we do go for it, with two 7s on the pitch we can look at getting quicker ball and I do believe Biggar will be keen to show he can get the backline going.

I also think we will look to utilise North correctly this week (and he will also look for the ball more now, after Howley's little pep talk effort in the past few days).

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 2:56 pm

Casartelli wrote:It's Wales so almost anything could happen. I've been thinking about this for days and there are so many 'unknown variables' that it's impossible to predict a score with any degree of confidence. If we run at spaces rather than opponents we should win it comfortably, but it's likely to head down straight into contact, same as always.

With so many of our best players out, I'm tentatively forecasting a 15-15 draw.

It all depends on how well Rhodri Jones steps up...! He could be a huge chink in the armour...!

by tomhughesnice Fri 15 Nov 2013, 3:06 pm

I think a Rout is on the cards. Big score from Wales, and end the AI's on a high. One of those days where the team just clicks.

by Scrumpy Fri 15 Nov 2013, 3:19 pm

Arg by 3.

Because they are due a performance.

by Guest Fri 15 Nov 2013, 3:25 pm

I'm not fancying Wales' chances here after our injuries and new starters, not that I don't have faith in our new players, but we're not as settled.

by majesticimperialman Fri 15 Nov 2013, 4:53 pm

If Wales had not lost so many players last week, players in vital position, Adam Jones at prop for instance. Plus Jd 2 getting injured as well. I would have fancy them for a decent win.

But the way Argentina played last week in the second half. I just think they will be too much for Wales to handle.

Argentina 10+.

by GloriousEmpire Fri 15 Nov 2013, 5:54 pm

Here is why Wales will lose:

Lack of cohesion in the midfield and the pitch will take any chance of an open game away from Wales. It will become a close quarters battle. Argentina have better forwards with a point to prove given their loss last week and welsh injuries.

Argentina by 7-10

by Casartelli Fri 15 Nov 2013, 6:18 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Here is why Wales will lose:

Lack of cohesion in the midfield and the pitch will take any chance of an open game away from Wales. It will become a close quarters battle. Argentina have better forwards with a point to prove given their loss last week and welsh injuries.

Argentina by 7-10

Anything is possible with Wales - only two things are guaranteed;

i. we never 'choke' (we can be awful, but never 'bottle' it)
ii. we never blame the food.

by quinsforever Fri 15 Nov 2013, 6:22 pm

wales by 10+

argentina missing too many players. the 20mins vs england that they hung in there was fairly predictably dirty, scrappy, disruptive play by Arg. just dont see how they are going to score any points, and HP will make them pay for the pens they give away so frequently.

by The Saint Fri 15 Nov 2013, 7:04 pm

Wales by 10+.

Why not? We're WALES.

by stub Fri 15 Nov 2013, 7:21 pm

For me Wales by 5-10 but I would not be surprised by a much bigger margin for Wales. I think they'll be cagey and do enough to get this one in the bag.

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 8:42 pm

tomhughesnice wrote:I think a Rout is on the cards. Big score from Wales, and end the AI's on a high. One of those days where the team just clicks.

Despite the injuries any less than a convincing win for Wales is unsatisfactory. They played well last week, with first game of the season rustiness and injuries to key players taken into consideration.

Wales have only changed a few players, they need to put in a very convincing performance to show they are moving forward.

by Guest Fri 15 Nov 2013, 8:45 pm

Wales by 15+, because that's what it will be.

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 8:53 pm

I think it will be a tough first half but we will get a ten point win

by Cyril Fri 15 Nov 2013, 8:56 pm

Shouldn't Wales be looking for a big win?

England, with plenty of injuries, won by 19 points and only played for a half.

Wales should be looking for a similar score. Argentina aren't up to much at the moment.

by Guest Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:09 pm

We can't say that though Cyril, or be in any way confident, or the posters will be out with their virtual pitchforks baying for arrogant Welsh blood. They love a good village idiot hunt.

by The Saint Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:15 pm

Griff wrote:We can't say that though Cyril, or be in any way confident, or the posters will be out with their virtual pitchforks baying for arrogant Welsh blood. They love a good village idiot hunt.

It's both funny and true.

Very Happy

by majesticimperialman Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:18 pm

Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:20 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?

Did you watch the Welsh team win the grand slam in 2012 or reach the semi final of the RWC with Warburton as captain?

by The Saint Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:21 pm

Couple more daft questions from the local dafty...

picard

by Cyril Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:25 pm

Griff wrote:We can't say that though Cyril, or be in any way confident, or the posters will be out with their virtual pitchforks baying for arrogant Welsh blood. They love a good village idiot hunt.

Yes, keep your powder dry.

Anything you say or do may be used against you in a forum Smile

by majesticimperialman Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:26 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?
Did you watch the Welsh team win the grand slam in 2012 or reach the semi final of the RWC with Warburton as captain?

Yes Maes i did. But he seems to have lost his mojo since then. ok.

by maestegmafia Fri 15 Nov 2013, 9:44 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?
Did you watch the Welsh team win the grand slam in 2012 or reach the semi final of the RWC with Warburton as captain?
Yes Maes i did. But he seems to have lost his mojo since then. ok.

Since the lions tour?

by flyhalffactory Sat 16 Nov 2013, 1:19 am

I think a couple of the Welsh guys have to up their game, Faletau, North and Halfpenny for sure. I am excited by the North/Allen/Williams axis and if Biggar can provide quick options to that trio it could become a try fest.

Thought Hibbard was superb last week one of his best games, ditto Warburton and with the running game of Tips, I can see Wales putting on the gas in the first 25 mins.

Wales to win by 10+

by The Saint Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:13 am

I think Faletau has been playing pretty well. North and Halfpenny yes, but didn't have much ball come their way last week.

by flyhalffactory Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:36 am

Morning Saint

Have to say I only saw the recording of the Welsh game but Toby seemed to be knocked back every time he encountered the SA back row particularly Louw, Duane Vermeulen stopped him in his track.

I would have played Ryan Jones at 8 to start, I think he is more dynamic in his overall play

by bedfordwelsh Sat 16 Nov 2013, 6:24 am

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote: but no so Ll Williams
I noticed you mentioned a dislike for Williams elsewhere as well. What's the score? What has he done to disappoint you?

I just don't think he's up to test match standard, I admit to not watching many Blues games (as a Dragons fan why would I Wink

) but when he has been in the red of Wales he has been less than inspiring.

I would much rather have seen R Williams or even Rees given a crack as IMO they both offer more but then again what do I know, for ages and ages I questioned Charteis' continued inclusion - now I would have him as 1st choice with AWJ.

by Guest Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:38 am

flyhalffactory wrote:Morning Saint

Have to say I only saw the recording of the Welsh game but Toby seemed to be knocked back every time he encountered the SA back row particularly Louw, Duane Vermeulen stopped him in his track.

I would have played Ryan Jones at 8 to start, I think he is more dynamic in his overall play

Ryan has been struggling a bit with injury this season and (in my opinion) was a little lucky to make the squad after his performance v Northampton. Toby started well last week, but faded a little and spilled a couple of balls in contact (well one at least). I think it will be a while until he loses his place.

George North has responded to Howley, agreeing with him (according to a piece in the South Wales Argus). I would expect him to be popping up looking for the ball today and expect him to have a good game.

I still favour a close Welsh win. Interesting to see apparently Argentina have a point to prove, but Wales don't?

by Guest Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:40 am

Argus wrote:WALES’ giant wing George North acknowledges attack coach Rob Howley’s criticism of him was spot on after his well below par performance in the 24-15 defeat to South Africa last week, writes Iwan Gabe Davies.

The 6ft 4in and 17st 3lb powerhouse will be looking to replicate the kind of displays that made his one of the stars of the British and Irish Lions triumphant tour of Australia this summer.

Howley rebuked North in public this week when he went on record to say he was “a bit disappointed” with the way the North Walian played against the Boks, calling on him to reproduce the devastating form he showed against the Wallabies, the new Northampton Saints man scoring two tries during the 2-1 series victory.

On being asked about his coach’s direct words, the 21-year-old replied: "Yes, that's fair. Obviously it's been a pretty mental season coming back from the Lions and straight into a new club and having to get used to it.

"It is nice to be back in Wales, but I knew last weekend my game wasn't up to scratch.

"So it's been a big week for me personally and I'm looking forward to the challenge this weekend.”

North, who wins his 33rd cap this afternoon, is looking to avenge last November’s shock defeat to Argentina, Grand Slam-winning Wales hammered 26-12 by the Pumas at the Millennium Stadium.

...."The challenge is obvious from the disappointment of last year,” he said. "We've worked hard on our lineout defence and defending the maul.

"A huge positive has been the way we've dominated the air in the last couple of years, and we had a bad day at the office. Sometimes it happens in a game. Things didn’t go our way, and let's not get too hung-up about it.

"We have got to look at retaining possession, and if we do that then it is looking for the opportunities to exploit that possession.”

On speculation his physical presence could soon be used in the centre, especially with Lions Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies out injured, North said: "What will be, will be. I'm at the ripe old age of 21 now so we'll see what happens if I get a bit slower!

"I don't really know, it's not a question for me to answer. I'm enjoying where I'm playing now and if I'm on the pitch I'm happy.

"Apparently people want to see me at centre, but I don't really know why. We'll see going forward, but at the moment I'm happy on the wing.”

by Guest Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:44 am

Walesonline wrote: Rhodri Jones and Gethin Jenkins pack down next to a purple smiley face on Sam Warburton's match shirt in support of Matthew Rees
Wales' rugby stars will be smiling throughout tomorrow's autumn clash with Argentina.

The team will show their support for former captain Matthew Rees, affectionately known as 'Smiler', by wearing jerseys with a special symbol embroidered onto the sleeve.

The Cardiff Blues hooker is currently facing a spell away from the game as he receives extensive treatment for testicular cancer.

To show their support for Rees, who has played 58 times for his country, the squad asked for a personal graphic to be sewn onto each jersey for the game against Argentina this weekend.

Universally referred to as 'Smiler' the squad have created a purple smiley face to represent his nickname and chose the colour to show support for testicular cancer charities.

Wales captain Sam Warburton said: "After the South Africa game in the post-match function we spoke as a squad about how to show our support and recognise what Matthew is going through and we felt putting a symbol on the jersey would be good idea to show we are right behind him," he said.

"The idea was a purple smiley face. The purple to represent the testicular cancer charities and the smiley face to represent Matthew as we know him - Smiler.

"For me personally he has been a great support in my career and hopefully in a small way this shows how we feel."

Fellow front-row forward Gethin Jenkins, who wins his 100th cap for Wales on Saturday, added: "Obviously Saturday will be a great day for me and my family personally but equally important is having the symbol on the jersey to show our support for Matthew and the tough times he is going through at the moment. We just want to show that the whole squad is behind him."

Nice touch by the lads

by majesticimperialman Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:50 am

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?
Did you watch the Welsh team win the grand slam in 2012 or reach the semi final of the RWC with Warburton as captain?
Yes Maes i did. But he seems to have lost his mojo since then. ok.
Since the lions tour?

Maestegmafia.

I might not have the best memory in the world. But i do believe, i could be wrong mind you, that Sam Warburton, ( DID NOT PLAY) In the Last LIONS test. It was Alun Wyn Jones that was the Captain. Right or wrong?

I seem to remember that Sam Warburton was ( INJURED ) Again.

by jimmyinthewell68 Sat 16 Nov 2013, 9:55 am

yes you was right he didnt play . Dan and Sean was the flankers

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Nov 2013, 11:07 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Griff. One question for you. If Wales do lose? Will it be down to the fact that Argentina was the better team on the day?

Or will it be because Sam Warburton is the captain?

Wales (DO SEEM) to go on a losing streak when he is Captain. Dont they?
Did you watch the Welsh team win the grand slam in 2012 or reach the semi final of the RWC with Warburton as captain?
Yes Maes i did. But he seems to have lost his mojo since then. ok.
Since the lions tour?
Maestegmafia.

I might not have the best memory in the world. But i do believe, i could be wrong mind you, that Sam Warburton, ( DID NOT PLAY) In the Last LIONS test. It was Alun Wyn Jones that was the Captain. Right or wrong?

I seem to remember that Sam Warburton was ( INJURED ) Again.

Correct on all counts...! You have a bad memory and AWJ was captain.

Maj I don't understand why you constantly slate Warburton.

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Nov 2013, 11:47 am

Skipper Juan Lobbe's absence is a huge blow for Argentina, says new kid on the block Pablo Matera

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/skipper-juan-lobbes-absence-huge-6310688

by Guest Sat 16 Nov 2013, 12:25 pm

I don't know why people like Madge still have a pop at Warburton. I don't see any issues with his captaincy personally. He led well on the tour (judging by the Lions Raw dvd), played well in both tests (did his job in the first test, as much as he was allowed to by the ref and played very well in the second, before his unfortunate injury and the Lions then falling apart a little when he was off the field). He also played pretty well last weekend.

His dad posted a tweet a while ago, where his games available and games completed for Wales are pretty good, particularly given his position.

I guess until he starts doing things like making incorrect decisions for what to do with a penalty, he can't be considered as good as some other international captains.

by maestegmafia Sat 16 Nov 2013, 12:28 pm

Risca Rev wrote:I don't know why people like Madge still have a pop at Warburton. I don't see any issues with his captaincy personally. He led well on the tour (judging by the Lions Raw dvd), played well in both tests (did his job in the first test, as much as he was allowed to by the ref and played very well in the second, before his unfortunate injury and the Lions then falling apart a little when he was off the field). He also played pretty well last weekend.

His dad posted a tweet a while ago, where his games available and games completed for Wales are pretty good, particularly given his position.

I guess until he starts doing things like making incorrect decisions for what to do with a penalty, he can't be considered as good as some other international captains.

Well said Rev...

by bedfordwelsh Sat 16 Nov 2013, 12:28 pm

Some people (myself included) just don't like certain people without even knowing them.

What makes it interesting is how other players consider each other. Like I said other day I have not heard any bad comments or bitchy remarks come out of Oz about Warburton yet, maybe they are all waiting for their book or maybe it was because it was a winning tour who knows.

by Guest Sat 16 Nov 2013, 12:55 pm

His games completed for Wales may not be that bad, but its because he kept missing games for the Blues. They used to call him something along the lines of "2 match Warburton" because he never played more than 2 consecutive matches without injury.

by Cari Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:16 pm

Afternoon All mug

Are we all ready? Very Happy

I really hope the boys have a great game today and no more injuries! Especially Melon of course. Well done on the 100th cap Geth clap

Hopefully this one will be more memorable than his first cap (he just said he couldn't remember it in an interview). Also hope Biggar has a good game and proves his choice.

Nice pink daps Pichot! Smile

by Nachos Jones Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:17 pm

Good luck Wales. Didn't realise that they had not won an AI in so long o.O

by Cari Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:28 pm

Great reception from the crowd for The Centurion. clap

by Nachos Jones Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:31 pm

Nice touch for the lads to let Gethin run out on his own and take the plaudits.

by Cari Sat 16 Nov 2013, 2:34 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:Nice touch for the lads to let Gethin run out on his own and take the plaudits.

As it always is in rugby. The Pumas did the same for their player who is getting his 50th cap today - his name escapes me I'm ashamed to say.

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Who will win?