England vs. Argentina: Match Build Up.

by Cumbrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 9:51 am

Rugby World Cup Pool B: Argentina v England
Venue: Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin Date: Saturday 10 September Kick-off: 0930.

England Team is up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14817479.stm

Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.

Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.

The Argentina team has been announced via the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14800615.stm

Martin Rodriguez, Gonzalo Camacho, Gonzalo Tiesi, Santiago Fernandez, Horacio Agulla, Felipe Contepomi (captain), Nicolas Vergallo, Juan Fernandez Lobbe, Juan Manuel Leguizamon, Julio Farias Cabello, Patricio Albacete, Manuel Carizza, Juan Figallo, Mario Ledesma, Rodrigo Roncero.

Replacements: Agustin Creevy, Martin Scelzo, Mariano Galarza, Alejandro Campos, Alfredo Lalanne, Marcelo Bosch, Juan Jose Imhoff.

by OzT Tue 06 Sep 2011, 9:54 am

I can say I do not know the Argentinian side, though I am sure by next year's 4Ns I will be familiar with them.

But the English supporters, am interested in the views. Do you see this as a game in the bag?

The forwards obviously will be a threat, will the back line be any good without a number ten?

by **rodders** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 9:55 am

Apparantly Pichot reckons England could win this one by 30 points citing the fact that Argentina have only played one test in 11 months + 1 warm up game.

I wonder is this just mindgames or does he have a point?

by **LondonTiger** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 10:13 am

Quite an exciting backline but perhaps no out and out finishers.
Lacking a reliable goal kicker.
An aging pack (that tired significantly against Wales).

England SHOULD win by two clear scores - but the passion and knowhow of the argentinians could carry them through.

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue 06 Sep 2011, 10:14 am

I think he has a point Roddersm.

England need to play a wide game and utilise the backs like Wales did a couple of weeks ago.

Keeping it in the forwards will suit the Argentines which will result in a boring arm wrestle. Even so, both scenarios will result in an English win.

Break a leg Wink

by RubyGuby Tue 06 Sep 2011, 10:18 am

Of course Argentina will try to keep it tight and in Contepomi they have a master tactician at 10. England need to get the basics right and take the 3 points when available if they can get 9-12 points ahead Argentina will fold and the game will be there for the taking IMO. If they don't and it becomes an arm wrestle then Argentina can win this game. thumbsup

by doctornickolas Tue 06 Sep 2011, 10:23 am

Wales won comfortably without ever really getting out of 1st gear.

The Argie pack is ancient and I expect England to get a decent score to be honest.

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 10:40 am

doctornickolas wrote:Wales won comfortably without ever really getting out of 1st gear.

The Argie pack is ancient and I expect England to get a decent score to be honest.

The Argentian performance wouldn't have been that great anayway as that was their first test for almost a year, I am sure they will front up better than you expect. I would expect an England win by 10-15

by rugbyfan Tue 06 Sep 2011, 11:23 am

I think it's very difficult to assess this Argentina team - personally the only game I've seen them play recently was the Wales game and they looked poor. There's a tendency to hype them up a few notches after their heroics in 2007, but this is a different team. Notably no Hernandez who was fantastic 4 years ago.

I think England will win by 15-20 points and that Argentina will actually finish 3rd in the group after losing to Scotland as well.

by **rodders** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 11:39 am

They were absolutely awful at Landsowne road in the Autumn too. They looked totally disinterested which is a bit odd considering the heated rivalry we've had with them in recent years.

The referee made some odd descisions at scrum time but they failed to get any real dominance there and that was with Tony Buckley playing TH for us.

Maybe they were rusty but they were very poor and a shadow of the side they were a few seasons ago.

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 11:45 am

They started well against Wales but seemed to quite literally, run out of puff. I expect they will give England a similarly torrid time initially, but that England will begin to gain a stranglehold later on.

by Cymroglan Tue 06 Sep 2011, 11:58 am

You have to match the Argentineans if you don't stand up to them they will punish you.
They are a side that play with passion heads will drop if they go behind
but if you let them stay within reach they will find that extra puff.

---------------------------------------------------------
Question,,,, Which is correct Argentine, Argentinean Argentinian

by MBTGOG Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:04 pm

I must have seen a different game to everybody else against Wales. They tired badly, no doubt about that, but that ain't a shock considering how little game time they've had together.

But they were the much more dangerous side before Wales got their first try. They didn't keep it tight and found quite a few gaps in the Welsh defence, something England failed horribly at the week before.

by Cumbrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:08 pm

'Argentinean' is generally used in the UK, but the Oxford dictionary has 'Argentine' as the correct demonym. I think it depends how anal you want to be.

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:11 pm

For ease of use I suggest we call them the Argies. Cool

by HammerofThunor Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:12 pm

Apart from Powell getting lucky after messing up at the back of the scrum and the second try not long after I thought Argentina were the 'better' side. Wales did what they needed and pounced on mistakes but I certainly don't think this'll be a walkover for us.

Question,,,, Which is correct Argentine, Argentinean Argentinian

Does it matter? So long as it's recognisable.

by yappysnap Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:20 pm

I expect an England win, but i think it'll be much closer then people are saying here.

Probably one try in it and that may be the only try of the match.

by Boyne Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:23 pm

Considering England nearly lost to the USA last WC, I dont think they will be taking it lightly at all.

England by 15- 18

by Geordie Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:26 pm

I dont think you can really say any match against the Pumas is easy these days.
I do however think that those highlighting the age of their pack are correct. We have a particularly young pack who whilst lacking the old grizzled veterans like Ledesma and Roncero, should be fitter.

I think It will close then England should move away after the 60 mark.

by Geordie Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:27 pm

PS...is it on normally telly?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:28 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:PS...is it on normally telly?

https://www.606v2.com/t6249-penfro-s-live-tv-for-the-next-two-months-updated-friday-02-09-2011-1014

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:29 pm

I'm sorry, but I find the term 'Argies' slightly derogatory and it 'could' cause offense. It would be much better to call them the 'Pumas' or Argentineans.

by MBTGOG Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:40 pm

Great White wrote:I'm sorry, but I find the term 'Argies' slightly derogatory and it 'could' cause offense. It would be much better to call them the 'Pumas' or Argentineans.

Without wanting to sound condescending, what does it matter if you find it derogatory if you're not Argentinean? How do you know if they like it or not?

by **ADMIN** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:46 pm

I have had a good browse of the interweb and the term 'Argie' is not one that is deemed offensive, it is used in the same breath as the likes of Brit, Aussie etc and not used in a manner like another well known abbreviation.

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm

Then I suppose we should stop using Ozzies as well.

What about Saffers?

by OzT Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:47 pm

Maybe left over from the war?

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:48 pm

Thanks Hero, posted before I read yours. Rolling Eyes

by OzT Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:48 pm

biltongbek wrote:Then I suppose we should stop using Ozzies as well.

What about Saffers?

Thought you guys were just called gougers???

Run

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm

OzT wrote:
biltongbek wrote:Then I suppose we should stop using Ozzies as well.

What about Saffers?

Thought you guys were just called gougers???

And thugs, and boring, and bullies etc. etc. etc.

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm

But the good news is:

WE are also twice crowned WORLD CHAMPIONS Yahoo

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:54 pm

MBTGOG wrote:
Great White wrote:I'm sorry, but I find the term 'Argies' slightly derogatory and it 'could' cause offense. It would be much better to call them the 'Pumas' or Argentineans.

Without wanting to sound condescending, what does it matter if you find it derogatory if you're not Argentinean? How do you know if they like it or not?

I know. From personal experience. But not all of them do, which is why I said 'could'.

by HammerofThunor Tue 06 Sep 2011, 12:55 pm

But you didn't have to play the All Blacks in 2007 so it didn't count. That's the rule right?

Hoping for a good game and that the Argentinas get stonger as they play together (i.e. weakest against us Smile

).

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:02 pm

Cumbrian wrote:'Argentinean' is generally used in the UK, but the Oxford dictionary has 'Argentine' as the correct demonym. I think it depends how anal you want to be.

It's 'Argentinian.'

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:06 pm

Argentinean is more correct.

Actually, i'm not sure why I should care, what's a little low level (nick) name calling when you've got the likes of GG posting a seemingly endless stream of xenophobic, racist or libellous bile with apparent immunity from the moderators.

by MBTGOG Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:08 pm

Great White,

Was there any need to bring that up? No, so please refrain in future.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:09 pm

Great White wrote:Argentinean is more correct.

No it's bloody not! That's like saying 'Englesh' is more correct than 'English.'

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:11 pm

MBTGOG wrote:Great White,

Was there any need to bring that up? No, so please refrain in future.

I think it has almost perfect context. I don't expect you to enjoy having your frailties as an administration team exposed though. Fair play to you for trying to squash it.

by OzT Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:13 pm

From Wiki...

Demonym
Argentine,
Argentinian
Argentinean

but then it goes on..

Argentine people
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Argentines (argentinos in Spanish) are the citizens of Argentina, or their descendants abroad.

However, looking at Argentinean gives you the page Argentina...

by MBTGOG Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:16 pm

Great White wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:Great White,

Was there any need to bring that up? No, so please refrain in future.

I think it has almost perfect context. I don't expect you to enjoy having your frailties as an administration team exposed though. Fair play to you for trying to squash it.

If you have an issue, feel free to PM myself or one of the other admins. This is not the area to debate this though.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:16 pm

http://oxforddictionaries.com/noresults?dictionaryVersion=region-uk&isWritersAndEditors=true&noresults=true&page=1&pageSize=20&q=argentinean&searchUri=All&sort=alpha&type=dictionarysearch

by Great White Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:18 pm

MBTGOG wrote:
Great White wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:Great White,

Was there any need to bring that up? No, so please refrain in future.

I think it has almost perfect context. I don't expect you to enjoy having your frailties as an administration team exposed though. Fair play to you for trying to squash it.

If you have an issue, feel free to PM myself or one of the other admins. This is not the area to debate this though.

Have done in the past. Quite clearly it had no effect. Here seems as good a place as any.

by OzT Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:19 pm

That settles it then, Argentinean is not a word..

Besides, it has that squiggly red line under the word in the browser as I was typing it..
Smile

by **ADMIN** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:21 pm

Great White wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:
Great White wrote:
MBTGOG wrote:Great White,

Was there any need to bring that up? No, so please refrain in future.

I think it has almost perfect context. I don't expect you to enjoy having your frailties as an administration team exposed though. Fair play to you for trying to squash it.

If you have an issue, feel free to PM myself or one of the other admins. This is not the area to debate this though.

Have done in the past. Quite clearly it had no effect. Here seems as good a place as any.

No it doesn't.
Please do as the moderators request.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:22 pm

I didn't want to be pedantic, OzT - actually no, I'm a born pedant!

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:24 pm

Well i really am sorry for suggesting Argies in the first place, didn't think an abbreviation would cause such debate.

We will all go back to Argentinian. Whistle

by MBTGOG Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:25 pm

OzT wrote:That settles it then, Argentinean is not a word..

Besides, it has that squiggly red line under the word in the browser as I was typing it..

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:31 pm

"Wales won comfortably without ever really getting out of 1st gear"

Did they?

From what I watched Wales were very lucky to go in at halftime up as they seen very little of the ball and Argentina controlled the game. It wasn't until the 2nd half that Wales actually started to look the better team, but not by much.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:34 pm

Getting back to the match build up, I have to say that if England cannot out gun this Argentina side then I fear for our entire World Cup campaign.

Yes they have a competitive pack, but a number of players within it are not the force they were 4 years ago. They also rely heavily on Contepomi in the backs, although Fernandez at 12 is a good player.

If we match them up front which we are more than capable of doing, this is a game that England have got to be looking to win comfortably.

England by 15-20 points.

by Cymroglan Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:35 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:"Wales won comfortably without ever really getting out of 1st gear"

Did they?

From what I watched Wales were very lucky to go in at halftime up as they seen very little of the ball and Argentina controlled the game. It wasn't until the 2nd half that Wales actually started to look the better team, but not by much.

By that much ---> 15 points

by **Biltong** Tue 06 Sep 2011, 1:37 pm

The problem with this ARGENTINIAN team is we have no idea what they did in preparation apart from that one warm up match.

If they bring the passion they had of the previous world cup, then they can be dangerous.

Nobody rated them before then either.

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