WRU's vendetta against Bridgend Ravens

Well it looks like the morons at the WRU have delivered a final kick in the ball's to Bridgend Ravens. Since 2003 Bridgend RFC and it's supporters have been shafted by the WRU and its previous owner (the snake samuels). After keeping the club afloat and worked hard to get Bridgend back in the Welsh premiership they been informed they will not be one of the 10 teams in the premiership next year!

Despite having all the facilities, the WRU have used a flwaed system to keep them out of the premeirship. Bridgend is a hotbed of welsh rugby, which regulary produces quality players. It is one of the few counties where rugby is the number one sport, at junior school and comprehensive level there is no football league, only rugby. Which is why you wont find many football pitches in the schools.

Another stupid, shortsighted move by the WRU, it is clear that they have nothing but contempt for bridgend and its rugby supporters.

Isnt it a matter of the Ospreys already having 2 top team, Neath and Swansea - although i dont know how Neath are going to get a place since they refuse to work with the O's

Have they decided on the 10 clubs yet? Or do you just know that Bridgend isnt one?

"Aberavon, Bedwas, Cardiff, Cross Keys, Llandovery, Llanelli, Neath, Newport, Pontypridd and Swansea will remain in the Premiership next season

To earn a place in the Premiership clubs had to qualify for an 'A' licence based on criteria, sign a participation agreement and will also be judged on league results across the past six seasons"

"Criteria on which clubs are judged includes finance and administration, player development and ground facilities"

Basically if bridgend won the premeirship this year, they would still be relegated

I believe and I'm not sure if it's confirmed yet, that Neath are asking the WRU to recognise them as part of the Scarlets region? They don't want to have any association with the O's.

I know they've come out before saying that they wanted to be considered independant, think that was last year some time. how can they be considered part of the scarlets region?

They have to be associated with a region under WRU rules, and according to them, their culture and way of playing is more akin to that demonstrated by the Scarlets. Personally I think the WRU should put a toe up there arse. They lost their court battle, grow up and move on, it's the fans, the club and the region they're affecting!!!!

What a load of balls! cant believe theyve even used it as an excuse! doesnt matter theyre still in the prem next year

Scarlets wouldn't want Neath anyway. We've got three great sides in Carmarthen Quins, Llandovery and Llanelli to get our players from. The Quins are already really unlucky to miss out, so why on earth would we take Neath on board?

And with regards to the criteria - what is Bridgend's record over the last 6 seasons? If it's not so great then it's understandable why they have been dropped. They aren't going to be the only club side who misses out. Hardly see where the vendetta is here really.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14818482.stm

Bridgend RFC have expressed their dismay after being left out of a reformed Premiership Division for the start of the 2012/13 season.

The Welsh Rugby Union's plan to trim the semi-professional division from 14 to 10 teams was approved by most Premiership clubs in April.

Carmarthan Quins, Bridgend, Tonmawr and Pontypool will drop into a newly established National Championship.

"We would ideally ask for a review," said Bridgend director Dai Rees.

"We'd like it to be an independent review but perhaps that's a step too far to expect.

"But we'd hope that the Union would have sufficient common sense to realise the damage they're likely to cause.

"There is still the opportunity to negate that damage if they act now, so we would ask for that to happen straight away.

"We have already contacted the Union and officially told them that we intend to appeal against the decision.

"But we're going to sit back now over the next few days to gather together a group, so that we come up with some genuine constructive arguments to strengthen our case."

To earn a place in the Premiership clubs had to qualify for an 'A' licence based on criteria, sign a participation agreement and will also be judged on league results across the past six seasons.

Continue reading the main story
We feel that the criteria that's been drawn up has major flaws
Bridgend director Dai Rees
Criteria on which clubs are judged includes finance and administration, player development and ground facilities.

Aberavon, Bedwas, Cardiff, Cross Keys, Llandovery, Llanelli, Neath, Newport, Pontypridd and Swansea will remain in the Premiership next season.

The four clubs to miss out will form the National Championship with 10 teams promoted from Division 1 East and West: Bargoed, Blackwood, Bonymaen, Bridgend, Carmarthen, Ebbw Vale, Glamorgan Wanderers, Llanharan, Narbeth, Newbridge, Pontypool, Tata Steel, Tonmawr and Uwic.

Below that league, the existing Division One East and Division One West will continue in their present formats.

"We feel it's a decision that's going to adversely affect Welsh rugby as a whole," Rees added.

"Bridgend has always been a rich vein of rugby talent and continues to be so and yet we won't have a Premier Division team within the borough for our younger players to aim towards.

"These criteria were drawn up, certainly without our consultation and we end up being the club that's most affected by it.

"But we feel that the criteria that's been drawn up has major flaws, because there has been no import paid towards the geographic issue and the catchment area."

Pontypool have also raised concerns about the criteria applied and in a press release stated that the club had "major concerns regarding the safety of spectators at some Premiership grounds".

In refurbishing the grandstand at Pontypool Park, the club say they became aware of various building regulations and safety requirements that other Premiership clubs may not be aware of.

The statement stresses that Pontypool's concern is only for the safety of spectators and they are continuing a correspondence with the WRU over the matter.

right since the 2006-2007 season Bridgend have finished:

11th, 12th, 14th and last so guess that's why they didn't play in the Premiership in the 2009-10 season, and doesn't look like they played in it last season either going by the results table

That clearly isn't a very good record, and it's much worse than Neath and Swansea's, so why are they so surprised that they are the club that's been dropped?

Surely this should ignite a desire in them to improve themselves to develop enough and improve so they can get promotion back into the premiership. It should improve their performances.

If they have such a rich vein of talent, why have they been performing so poorly then? It would help them if the results backed up their claim, but they don't. I honestly can't see what they're complaining about (but feel free to point out any reasons I might be missing!)

The building safety regulations mind you, is a far more concerning matter.

Pooler Pooler Pooler.

Damn WRU.

I'm amazed this story has sneaked out under the radar, in fact it is such a major welsh rugby story, that I can't believe I found out about it first on this forum...

I'm not sure which way to swing on this issue, everyone was in favour of condensing the Welsh Premiership from 14 to 8-10 teams, to raise standards and make it more competitive.
Yet once they all agreed it should happen, the fatalities start moaning that they are the turkeys that got killed at Christmas!

I don't think that the WRU has any vendetta against Bridgend, but I do think that they have done this wrong.
Why should Neath be in it when they won't cooperate with the Ospreys? Their taking the money from the WRU so should fall into line, or be expelled.

My own personal take is the League should of been 8 teams, based on the 8 counties / provinces of Wales. Find the biggest town in each of the 8 Counties, ask them to rename the club into the counties name, and allow all of the Provinces to work with all the regions, to maximise a players chance of making it as a professional.

1 Clwyd
2 Dyfed
3 Gwent
4 Gwynedd
5 Mid Glamorgan
6 Powys
7 South Glamorgan
8 West Glamorgan

ah Alyn mun that's just a dream though. No teams inside those areas would ever like to compete under a county name. It would be like the mess of regionalisation again.

The Neath issue is a bit of a funny one. It's gone all quiet on that front, so maybe they have decided finally to grow up and cooperate with the Ospreys.

This is all just so typical of in-fighting that is rife in Welsh rugby. When on when will we ever grow up?

I fail to see what results 6 years ago have to do with how a club is playing today.

If it;s results driven then pick the top 10 sides this year, if it;s based on player development lets have a look which side runs the most junior teams and develops the most players for it's region or even for wales.

Some of the criteria is rubbish covered stands for 1000 fans at a minimum? half the sides dont get near that on a match day so why invest money in a half empty stand and ignore your youth and junior sides? madness

rugbydreamer wrote:right since the 2006-2007 season Bridgend have finished:

11th, 12th, 14th and last so guess that's why they didn't play in the Premiership in the 2009-10 season, and doesn't look like they played in it last season either going by the results table

That clearly isn't a very good record, and it's much worse than Neath and Swansea's, so why are they so surprised that they are the club that's been dropped?

Surely this should ignite a desire in them to improve themselves to develop enough and improve so they can get promotion back into the premiership. It should improve their performances.

If they have such a rich vein of talent, why have they been performing so poorly then? It would help them if the results backed up their claim, but they don't. I honestly can't see what they're complaining about (but feel free to point out any reasons I might be missing!)

The building safety regulations mind you, is a far more concerning matter.

The point is its a club on the rise, which has done well to get back into the premiership after having its region disbanded. In terms of talent, the last few years players such as prydie and mathew morgan get farmed out to other clubs.

at the end of the day i do sympathise wit bridgend supporters, however the premiership standards needed to be improved in order to better prepare players for the jump to regional level, IMO it should have been 8 clubs- 2 per region, but going down to ten is a start, some one had to be cut, and at the end of the day bridgend havent been in the top league for a season, yes it is a rich area of rugby talent, but dont kid yourselves that that talent wont find its way to the top anyway, and tbh what are the raison d'etre of any club from Llanelli in the prem down to cwmcarn in div 6? to produce players NOT to win what is in effect either amateur or in the case of the prem semi-pro leagues, all clubs in the leagues should take a look of the bigger picture step away from chasing instant success by paying over the hill players in order to win mickey mouse (in the context of pro rugby) competitions, what they should be doing is judging themselves by how many players they provide to their regionalsetups (from 16's through to seniors) by focussing on their mini and junior sections....if they get those set ups correct and a conveyor belt of talent coming through every year, yes the best will leave but the ones who are not quite good enough will stay and should help keep their club competitive....

I think that there are a number of historically big club names in that Championship such as Bridgend, Pooler, Ebbw Vale and Newbridge.

And arguably they are bigger clubs than the likes of Cross Keys, Llandovery and Bedwas, however

My understanding is that each region has to have at least 2 and a maximum of 4 clubs in that Premiership.

With the sides listed the regions have the following number of clubs

Blues (2) - Cardiff and Pontypridd
Scarlets (2) - Llanelli and Llandovery
Dragons (3) - Cross Keys, Newport and Bedwas
Ospreys (3) - Swansea, Neath and Aberavon

Bridgend could be included but as they fall under the Ospreys region then the only thing that could happen is one of the Dragons clubs would have to miss out (as the Blues and Scarlets already have the minimum).

Now assuming that Cross Keys, Newport and Bedwas meet all the other criteria then why should any of those miss out to accommodate Bridgend as all of them clearly have a superior playing record over the last 6 years.

This is quite a difficult scenario as I would love to see the 'big names' like Bridgend and Pooler involved but there has to be a cut off somewhere and 14 clubs in the Premiership is just too many to be a competitive development league.

Maybe a better set up would have been for 8 or 12 in the Prem to accommodate 2 or 3 per region but Bridgend would still miss out for the reasons mentioned above.

The other thing to throw in to the mix is that I expect RGC to be parachuted in to this league at some point. What happens then? Does 1 club get cut to keep it at 10 or another club added to take it back up to 12.

Do they just say, well lets count RGC as a Scarlets club for now meaning they have 3 and move Bridgend to be part of the Blues region meaning they also have 3. That would even things up a bit.

Don't know

doctornickolas wrote:

The other thing to throw in to the mix is that I expect RGC to be parachuted in to this league at some point. What happens then? Does 1 club get cut to keep it at 10 or another club added to take it back up to 12.

RGC are set to join Div 1 East next season. I dont think they'll be moved in to the league for a for a good while.

On the issue, i think it should have been taken down to 8 teams. Two per Region and maybe expanded if North Wales ever get a region. The more condensed it is the better the quality of the players has to be to get in to the teams. As someone else wrote, these clubs need to stop being so single minded and think of the big picture which is Welsh rugby trying to be competitve in an international game where players need good hard rugby from as young an age as possible. Just like they do down south.

It's a fairly easy problem to solve. Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli already have Regional (Super Club) Rugby. Drop the pretence of the existing club sides being separate entities to the Regions, this will enable Bridgend, Pontpool, Carmarthen Quins and Tonmawr to continue in the Premiership. To even up the numbers Bridgend may have to link up with the Blues. Other than that everyone should be satisfied.

Genuine links must be established between the Regions and Premier clubs. All players should have dual registration (as in Ireland). Turn out for the Premiership sides when not required for the Region or being rested. Regional players and coaches to regularly turn up for skill sessions with the Premiership side players.

Neaths relationship with the Ospreys is potentially a problem but if they don't want to toe the line, then drop them to the National Championship.

Seagultaf:
Totally agree, I can't believe how short sighted the WRU is, we need to spread the game from the 4 super clubs, why fund Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport twice, their supporters have more exposure to local rugby at the highest standard. As you stated this will allow Bridgend, Pooler, Quins and E Vale for example to share out the better players.

what about the fans of Llanelli who don't support the Scarlets and don't want anything to do with the Scarlets? (and there are a lot of them out there!) are you just going to disband their club? who then would they support? and the same goes for fans of Swansea, Cardiff and Newport who don't support the O's, Blues or Dragons.

There is no simple answer here, and no matter what the WRU do, people are going to be upset. Welsh rugby, is as usual, a mess.

I remember when the Irish League was cutting down in size and Donegal Celtic were one of the teams to lose out. They must have felt the same way as the Bridge end fans.

However they argued it in a different way, what they didn't like was that the IFA kept the selection critea secret and wouldn't reveal what it was clubs needed to stay in Prem, (it was to include performance, stadia, support, transport, youth set up etc)

Now if the WRU have put in place a selection citrea, and let all the teams see what it is and agree to it, before hand. Then the seletion becomes clear and no-one can complain. If the WRu didn't put the seletion critea out, and give the clubs time to agree to it, and/or time to fix problems that may help they make a critea point, then Bridgend have every right to complain and appeal.

Petty squabbles have no place in the bigger picture.
We need to search for talent from every corner of Wales and it needs to be done sooner rather than later.

seagul alyn boys for god sake let it go, we have 4 regions who happen to play there home games out of the the biggest/best grounds available in their region-the attendances have grown since inception and as older generations pass on this tribalism will die out and the younger fans will support what they have known all along-4 welsh regions,

the fact of the matter is the premiership was too big and not competitve enough, yes bridgend were unlucky to get chopped but as i stated earlier what is the maximum that club could achieve? winning the welsh premiership in its current format? Big whoop! its a mickey mouse league in comparision with other leagues/competitions underpinning other nations domestic top leagues, and in three years they could still gain promotion to it again, surely like every other FEEDER club in wales they should be judging themselves o how many players they produce to the regional set up?

the fact of the matter is those who still support a club and NOT a region are in the minority-at least as far as paying to go and see them goes- so lets be honest financially below the regions the WRU could do pretty much as they wish as the clubs alone (with the exception of maybe pontypridd) dont have the financial clout (i.e paying fans week in week out) to put up a logical business argument for inclusion in either the countries top domestic competition or the semi pro league underpinning it, so lets stop our petty pointless elsfish point of view and do whats in the best interest of our national game eh?

You miss the point GavinDragon.

I am all for an effective feeder club system, but that also takes a commitment from the management and players of the regions. Read my post!

We need to promote top level rugby across as large as possible geographic area to attract the maximum number of young players into the game in Wales. The people of Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli have no divine right to having TWO top level sides, and expect the people of Carmarthen, Pontypool, Bridgend etc to be satified with none!

If rugbydreamer is upset at not being able to watch his beloved Llanelli RFC then he has a choice of a very short trip to Carmarthen, Neath or the Ospreys. Or he could watch the other side that plays at PYS, they play in red, their nickname is the Scarlets and they constantly talk about their rich history and beating the All Blacks. (And at present they play fantastic rugby with exciting young local talent).

This move is clearly for the better of Welsh rugby. But we cannot afford to disenfranchise area's such as Carmarthen, Pontypool and Bridgend who have produced scores of outstanding Regional and International players in the past.

AlynDavies wrote:

1 Clwyd
2 Dyfed
3 Gwent
4 Gwynedd
5 Mid Glamorgan
6 Powys
7 South Glamorgan
8 West Glamorgan

Dyfed?

Dyfed doesnt exist! It was an abomination foisted on Wales by Westminster in 1974. They used all sorts of fallacious historical arguments to try and justify the new "county", but it achieved nothing. The area reverted back to the original (Welsh) counties of Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire in 1996.

Any club calling itself Dyfed had better apply to join the English League structure - it will get NO support out here.

GavinDragon wrote:seagul alyn boys for god sake let it go

What on earth I have done?

Seagultaf wrote:You miss the point GavinDragon.

I am all for an effective feeder club system, but that also takes a commitment from the management and players of the regions. Read my post!

We need to promote top level rugby across as large as possible geographic area to attract the maximum number of young players into the game in Wales. The people of Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli have no divine right to having TWO top level sides, and expect the people of Carmarthen, Pontypool, Bridgend etc to be satified with none!

If rugbydreamer is upset at not being able to watch his beloved Llanelli RFC then he has a choice of a very short trip to Carmarthen, Neath or the Ospreys. Or he could watch the other side that plays at PYS, they play in red, their nickname is the Scarlets and they constantly talk about their rich history and beating the All Blacks. (And at present they play fantastic rugby with exciting young local talent).

This move is clearly for the better of Welsh rugby. But we cannot afford to disenfranchise area's such as Carmarthen, Pontypool and Bridgend who have produced scores of outstanding Regional and International players in the past.

sigh. I was using it as an example mate. All these people who are kicking up a fuss about their club being dropped, how do you think the fans of Llanelli, Swansea etc would feel if they're club was not even just dropped, but gotten rid of all together? Just pointing out there are two sides to everything and that there is never going to be an option that pleases everyone. Infighting in Welsh rugby is still rampant. And I do support the Scarlets thanks, I'm a season ticket holder and everything. I'm not from Llanelli but I was born and raised in the Scarlets region and am much happier cheering them on now, then when they were just Llanelli. (and I'm female btw)

I think GavinDragon has pretty much hit the nail on the head as well.

'The people of Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli have no divine right to having TWO top level sides'

they dont, the people in the blues ospreys dragons and scarlet regions have one top level team and a local feeder team....be it newport, or where i grew up chepstow, as it happens i follow the results of as many gwent clubs as i can and also keep eyes out for youngsters playing well etc etc

alyn maybe my comment was probably more aimed at you because judging by previous posts you still see the regions as 'super clubs' and tend to take swipes at the dragons by calling us newport etc etc

I apologise to anyone who i have upset by suggesting thier local team should make way to strengthen the Regional set up.

My argument is based solely on what I believe will stregthen Welsh rugby. This involves proper regional set up with feeder clubs who are fully supported through the regional side and maximising the geographical spread of the top end of the game across the traditionally strong rugby homelands.

I stand by may argument that Welsh rugby will be better served and will attract a greater number of young players into the game, by having Premiership rugby in Pontypool, Bridgend and Carmarthen than having two sides in Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Llanelli.

To RugbyDreamer can you honestly say that the Scarlets Region would not be stronger with: Llandovery, Carmarthen and say Haverforwest as feeders?

And GavinDragon the same for the Dragons with: Cross Keys, Ebbw Vale and Bedwas or Newbridge?

I'm honestly not sure they would be stronger Seagultaf.

Part of the Scarlets being able to remain successful is that logisticall a lot of Llanelli players have dealings with the Scarlets squad, so that when injuries occurr they already have players that are ready and able to fit in with the Scarlets squad.

Yes you could argue that they could build up a stronger link with say Quins or Llandovery, I do see your point on that but the Scarlets have been trying their hardest over the last few seasons to remove themselves from the Llanelli and 'superclub' link, and I for one think they are starting to be successful at that. Logistically yes they link up well with Llanelli RFC, but they are trying to pave the way to encompass the whole region and not just Llanelli town. Getting rid of Llanelli which as a club is so important to them would be a step backwards imo.

Like I've said in a previous post, I am as a fan, a lot happier now, being able to support the Scarlets, then I was when they were just Llanelli, as I feel they now represent the actual area where I'm from now, which Llanelli as a club never did before.

(I don't feel like I've explained myself well there at all sorry!)

newbridge, ebbw vale bedwas are all already feeders to the dragons

lewis robling played for newbridge
phil price is a bedwas boy
faletau and burns are from cross keys,

in fact cross keys are our top feeder team this year, being the only gwent side in the B&I cup andas ar as im aware ae receiving the most help with players etc

dropping newport rfc as a feeder would not benefit the dragons in my opinion

Seagultaf:

Again i am with you, it seems selfish to have two teams to support when the top rugby is already available to the 4 super clubs while others drop to the third level. If these 4 premier teams linked to the super clubs were disbanded the same players would move to one of the other teams in your examples. The other advantage, there would not be a preferred club, the tendancy is for a player to want to play for Newport rather than Cross Keys as he would stand a better chance of getting a Dragons contract. If the two feeder clubs were Cross Keys and Pontypool (and no Newport) players will be more likely to play for their local team.

I know this is not going to happen as all the power resides with the 4 big clubs, this is Wales the old guard looking after number 1.

that is if you actually think they are 4 super clubs. Scarlets are trying to really make huge steps into becoming a true region. Yes it's taking them time, but I don't see why this shouldn't be encouraged. Llanelli are a key part to the Scarlets' success, disbanding them would be a set back imo.

But then that depends if you actually want the regions to become and be seen as regions though, or whether you want them to go back to being clubs, or as you conveniently call them, super clubs. I am much happier with them being a region.

again alyn your wrong,

there are two current welsh internationals who both earned their dragons contracts from playing for cross keys,

dragons outhalf matthew jones is starting for keys against cardiff rfc this week in the premiership,

we are a true region

and you my friend are just stuck in the past and have no desire for the regions to succeed

GavinDragon wrote:again alyn your wrong,

i haven't posted on this topic since, i asked you what was the last offence I caused...

Jeepers the same people who get offended by me calling the Dragons, newport, can't even tell GlamorganAlun and AlynDavies apart...

sorry buddy i meant alun

GavinDragon wrote: sorry buddy i meant alun

That's ok then, if your at the Aironi game, your buying the first beer

i will be playing in the afternoon of that saturday then in work unfortuatel

Gutting!

Guess it's gonna be another afternoon sat all by myself in the Hazell stand then with a pint in my hand, watching the Dragons hammer someone!

I wish some of my friends liked rugby, lol

ha Alyn, I have the very same problem! Not always bad going by yourself though, get to listen in and join in with the banter with other fans, rugby is good like that

I am not talking about regions this discussion is regarding the feeder clubs and sharing rugby at a higher level with other supporters not a closed shop. I am in favour of reducing the premier club numbers to improve the standard and reduce the gap to the regional teams, Dragon I am not stuck in the past, you only accept change as long as you are not affected.

Llanelli is a very effective and productive feeder club yet some are calling for the entire club to be disbanded. Doesn't make sense to me.

rugbydreamer wrote:Llanelli is a very effective and productive feeder club yet some are calling for the entire club to be disbanded. Doesn't make sense to me.

It would of been much fairer all round if they had taken the top 8 clubs based on league placing, then only allowed promotion to the new league if you met the criteria.
Though they could of had 8 clubs and had the academy sides from each of the 4 regions who would be free from relegation in the league so they could have games.

Either of those I guess Alyn would be a good option.

Still can't really figure out how they came up with the number 10 to cut it to, when there would be an unequal split in the feeder clubs of the regions represented.

rugbydreamer wrote:Either of those I guess Alyn would be a good option.

Still can't really figure out how they came up with the number 10 to cut it to, when there would be an unequal split in the feeder clubs of the regions represented.

From watching an old Scrum V when the idea was fist mooted, several of the clubs chairmen were concerned that having only 7 HOME games a season was not enough to sustain a Semi Pro rugby club!
They were very concerned at only 9, so maybe 8 would of been better but to play each other 4 times not twice.

it has effected me (or a club in my region) pontypool are also missing out ton the premiership...

but i believe its in the interest of the national game

Alyn;

Selecting the top teams does seem fairer than selecting from past history (how far back do you go?) , the only problem is we could end up pumping regional players to make sure Cardiff, Llanelli, Swansea and Newport qualify which again is not fair!

glamorganalun wrote:Alyn;

Selecting the top teams does seem fairer than selecting from past history (how far back do you go?) , the only problem is we could end up pumping regional players to make sure Cardiff, Llanelli, Swansea and Newport qualify which again is not fair!

Yes but surely if you included second regional teams as well as the 8 clubs then the clubs wouldnt have regional players.