Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC a new region, would you support it?

There seams to be a few calls for the regions to be looked at but no plans of how to change it. The main point seams to be that some people want to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back. My question is to Welsh fans, mostly those not in the Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC area, would you like to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back?

It seams that Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC have both been doing well in developing players and in the Welsh prem and lots of fans in these areas, don't feel that they belong to a region, it is a big market that the WRU are missing out on at regional level.

But if a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region were to be bought back it would mean the WRU funding to the other regions would be decreased to pay for it.

Also reseting up a Bridgend Ravens/Celtic Warriors/new name side would mean that a North Wales region would that even longer to happen (if is ever does).

The idea of it seams to carry pros and cons, I'm sure for fans from this area the pros outweight the cons, but what about fans of other regions?

Ponty want a region called Ponty

Things is the Warriors were poorly supported in the first instance so would it be any different now.

Do Ponty people actually want a Region or do they want Ponty themselves to be back at the top table as a stand alone etc.

Celtic Warriors average was 2,796 and Leinsters was 3,234 in 03/04. Leinster are now the best supported team, so we'll not know how Warriors would have grown.

The big question for me is this: if they base this region at Bridgend (Brewery Field) would the Pontypridd fans go there to support it? Yes it no?

Or, if they create the valleys region that you are asking for (not including bridgend but other teams/areas such as Ebbw Vale, Abertillery, the Rhonndda, etc.) but base it anywhere OTHER than Pontypridd, would Pontypridd fans attend and support it? Yes or no?

Will you support anything not based at Sardis Road, Pontypridd?

I bet the answers are no and that is why you will not get a Valleys team.

Small mindedness reigns

Just stand on top of the nearest hill and you will see several regions.

I suppose the better question is would ponty bridgend etc fans support a regional team, rater than a club team, and what conditions, ie games have to be moved round, or have to play most at one venue etc?

geoff998rugby wrote:I bet the answers are no and that is why you will not get a Valleys team.

Small mindedness reigns

I don't think it is small mindedness at all. As a Ponty supporter I will never cheer on a Cardiff side which should be "my region", i have and never will have any feeling for them. If a regional team played alternate games between the Brewery Field and Sardis Rd which did not happen previously thanks to the mine field that is Leighton Samuel, then i think the team would generate a good following.

With regards to crowds, then surely we have to be looking at shutting down two of the four remaining regions as their attendance is p!ss poor after years of building up their brand.

It seems clear to me (as an outsider) that the day the Celtic Warriors folded, Cardiff Blues should have considered rebranding themselves with a new name/colours to include everyone? Or would that just have p!ssed off and "disenfranchised" the people of Cardiff?

The funny thing is the Welsh can embrace playing with the English in one team for the Lions and support them passionately. Both sides of the political divide in Ireland, which had people killing each other in the not to distant past, can embrace and support a team representing the island of Ireland.

But someone from Ponty can't support the same region as someone from Cardiff?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Things is the Warriors were poorly supported in the first instance so would it be any different now.

The region never got given time to work and settle. Newport Gwent Dragons had poor crowds starting off and now look at them

And to suggest that just because something didnt work that well nearly 10 years ago so definitely won't work now is just pathetic

Feckless Rogue wrote:But someone from Ponty can't support the same region as someone from Cardiff?

What region? Its a team called CARDIFF, that play all their games in CARDIFF, and the fans chant CARDIFF

Stop patronising people and making out that rugby supporters who don't support CARDIFF should all of a sudden be massive CARDIFF fans

Feckless Rogue wrote:It seems clear to me (as an outsider) that the day the Celtic Warriors folded, Cardiff Blues should have considered rebranding themselves with a new name/colours to include everyone?

That bit made sense to be fair mind

Come on though. This is Cardiff, Bob Norster and Peter Thomas we are on about here. They don't consider anyone else

geoff998rugby wrote:I bet the answers are no and that is why you will not get a Valleys team.

Small mindedness reigns

So you talk about small mindedness yet would "bet" that the answers are no rather than actually asking/debating the subject?

Here's a question. Would Munster have as many supporters if they were called Limerick Reds?

As I stated, the Warriors were only given one season and unfortunalty there were a lot of problems that season in regrads to money and Leighton Samuels trying to be the big man etc.

And lets not forget they actually had to try and make a region work unlike the selfish stand alones of Cardiff, Llanelli and Newport who didnt have to do anything at all apart from add the words 'Scarlets', 'Blues', and 'Gwent Dragons' to their name

Feckless Rogue wrote:Here's a question. Would Munster have as many supporters if they were called Limerick Reds?

The answer being...NO

Feckless Rogue wrote:Here's a question. Would Munster have as many supporters if they were called Limerick Reds?

I suspect not. I have to be honest and say that if Ulster rebranded themselves as Belfast, which is essentially where they are based and play I probably wouldn't feel that they are my team anymore.

To be fair it wouldn't be Limerick reds, it would be named after a club team so support would be even smaller, Munster would have been Shannon Blues!!

I'm an outsider but to be fair, if I was a Ponty fan, I couldn't bring myself to support Cardiff Blues, esp after they come out with stuff like,
Chief Executive, Robert Norster said, "A huge amount of effort has been made to ensure that the past 127 years of club traditions are not lost. We are delighted by the way these aspects have been respected and retained within the new modern brand."
and
In 2004 Cardiff Blues received the ERC Elite Award for having played 50 games in the Heineken Cup. This record began in 1995 when Cardiff RFC recorded an away draw at Bordeaux, and continued following the reorganisation of Welsh rugby in 2003, due to the club standing alone and rebranding as Cardiff Blues.

I agree with Feckless Rogue wrote:
It seems clear to me (as an outsider) that the day the Celtic Warriors folded, Cardiff Blues should have considered rebranding themselves with a new name/colours to include everyone?

I've heard the counter argument being that Cardiff and Llanelli were too big names known worldwide and for marketing that couldn't be lost, but the truth is they weren't and arn't. The best know team name in Welsh rugby are the Ospreys by a longshot, and that name only started in 2003. Llanelli learnt that and amended, Cardiff have'nt.

If the IRFU had instead of using the provinces had just promoted Belfast Harlequins, St Marys, Shannon and Galwegians to the Celtic League renamed as Belfast Harlequins, Leinster Dublin St Marys, Shannon Blues, and Galwegians west, we wouldn't have very much support.

Kingshu wrote:There seams to be a few calls for the regions to be looked at but no plans of how to change it. The main point seams to be that some people want to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back. My question is to Welsh fans, mostly those not in the Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC area, would you like to see a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region brought back?

It seams that Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC have both been doing well in developing players and in the Welsh prem and lots of fans in these areas, don't feel that they belong to a region, it is a big market that the WRU are missing out on at regional level.

But if a Pontypridd RFC and Bridgend RFC region were to be bought back it would mean the WRU funding to the other regions would be decreased to pay for it.

Also reseting up a Bridgend Ravens/Celtic Warriors/new name side would mean that a North Wales region would that even longer to happen (if is ever does).

The idea of it seams to carry pros and cons, I'm sure for fans from this area the pros outweight the cons, but what about fans of other regions?

LOL

Playing devils advocate here because I am already a welsh regional supporter. But, if rugby was failing in Ireland and they decided to concentrate the rugby in the South (south of the Rupublic that is) into 1 super club by merging Leinster and Muster rugby, lets call them Southern Ireland Raptors, playing all games in Dublin, but with Munster and Leinster teams still playing at semi pro level in an Irish league, would Munster fans support the new Dublin based venture or would you continue to turn out in droves to follow the semi-pro Munster team?

I'd want to see North Wales get its first regional side before South Wales gets its fifth.

At the end of the Celtic Warriors 1st season, I was about to become a ST holder, but they then folded, I then joined up with the Ospreys in which I was a ST holder until the start of last season. I was not a ST holder before that period and for the last season and a half due to Heart and Disability problems.
Would I support the said Region now, NO NEVER, when the new stadiums are to be built on the edge of Bridgend and they will be, the Ospreys or their parent company that owns Bridgend and has a lease on the Brewery Field, will play about a half a dozen of the lesser matches there.
Can I say I live closer to Pontypridd than Swansea. For the 5 years that I was a ST holder I offered many people in the locality a lift to the Liberty, none took up the offer, some through apathy, others blaming the other Regions for the demise of the Warriors, even though they had very rarely or if ever supporting the Warriors.
My team is the OSPREYS

Kingshu wrote:
In 2004 Cardiff Blues received the ERC Elite Award for having played 50 games in the Heineken Cup. This record began in 1995 when Cardiff RFC recorded an away draw at Bordeaux, and continued following the reorganisation of Welsh rugby in 2003, due to the club standing alone and rebranding as Cardiff Blues.

And lets not forget the Scarlets recently celebrated their 5000th game and also their 100th European game. That's a lot of games since 2003!!!

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/4342.php
http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/elite/index.php

Excellent posts from skippingpig and Jimmy Moz by the way and I agree with most of what they both have posted especially the stuff about Cardiff still being Cardiff because it's the truth. So why the hell should Ponty fans be expected to support Cardiff just because the WRU says they are a "region" that in some way represents them? Total tosh.

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Come on though. This is Cardiff, Bob Norster and Peter Thomas we are on about here. They don't consider anyone else

You're not wrong there.

I forgot to add from an outsiders point of view I can also understand, Cardiff's stance, the paid over a Million pounds to set up as a stand alone team, and keep their history , a year later when the warriors folded they weren't going to suddenly rebrand.
Really is the WRU fault it may work if Ponty was in the Ospreys region, but having Swansea, Neath, Bridgend and Ponty in one region would create an inbalance.

I should also add for balance that Cardiff and Llanelli weren't the only ones to try and keep the clubs names with the regions, everyone remember Swansea-Neath Ospreys? and Newport Gwent Dragons is like Dublin Leinster Blues!! but Llanelli and Swansea-Neath learnt and changed to their credit.

Feckless Rogue wrote:It seems clear to me (as an outsider) that the day the Celtic Warriors folded, Cardiff Blues should have considered rebranding themselves with a new name/colours to include everyone? Or would that just have p!ssed off and "disenfranchised" the people of Cardiff?

Whatever the name or colours the team would still have been run and owned by Cardiff RFC, so still Cardiff.
Believe me, they have skillfully managed to p!ss off a lot of Cardiff fans over the years and moving from the Arms Park was the icing on the cake, cherry and all.

Kingshu wrote:I forgot to add from an outsiders point of view I can also understand, Cardiff's stance, the paid over a Million pounds to set up as a stand alone team, and keep their history , a year later when the warriors folded they weren't going to suddenly rebrand.
Really is the WRU fault it may work if Ponty was in the Ospreys region, but having Swansea, Neath, Bridgend and Ponty in one region would create an inbalance.

I should also add for balance that Cardiff and Llanelli weren't the only ones to try and keep the clubs names with the regions, everyone remember Swansea-Neath Ospreys? and Newport Gwent Dragons is like Dublin Leinster Blues!! but Llanelli and Swansea-Neath learnt and changed to their credit.

Lanelli RFC have been known as the Scarlets for around 100 years or so. Should they have therefore dropped the Scarlets name as well?

Cardiff Dave wrote:Lanelli RFC have been known as the Scarlets for around 100 years or so. Should they have therefore dropped the Scarlets name as well?

Yes they should have dropped it. Im sure they actually think they are fooling people by calling themselves 'The Scarlets' that they are a real region. I haven't got any issue with where the stadium is and where the region is based as the west does need a region, but please don't pretend it's anything other than a Llanelli superclub at the moment. We have that clown Stuart Gallagher to thank for that

I grew up a Pontypool fan and "hated" Newport. Now I'm a season ticket holder with the Dragons and the reason is that over time the Dragons have developed a regional approach. There are good relations with the feeder clubs and the fans stopped chanting Newport. I still wouldn't go and support Newport RFC but I'm happy to support the Dragons. I wish the Board would drop the Newport name too.

! wouldn't support a valley region - pointless. We can't afford the 4 we have without generous benefactors. The Blues are largely to blame for the animosity 10 years on. Norster is an ignorant fool as is anyone arrogant enough to chant Cardiff at a Blues game. If Cardiff can't embrace regionalism then they should lose their regional franchise. Come to think about it three Welsh regions would be fine...

offload Two in the South and one in the North that would seem about right considering a third of the population are in the North.

Wasn't the original idea for Regionalisation a South west team, South east team, mid and North teams? Of course, Llanelli and Cardiff refused, hence the current structure. Swansea and Llanelli would never merge and I suppose that makes sense. Dragons and Blues merging wouldn't be out of the question though.

offload wrote:I grew up a Pontypool fan and "hated" Newport. Now I'm a season ticket holder with the Dragons and the reason is that over time the Dragons have developed a regional approach. There are good relations with the feeder clubs and the fans stopped chanting Newport. I still wouldn't go and support Newport RFC but I'm happy to support the Dragons. I wish the Board would drop the Newport name too.

! wouldn't support a valley region - pointless. We can't afford the 4 we have without generous benefactors. The Blues are largely to blame for the animosity 10 years on. Norster is an ignorant fool as is anyone arrogant enough to chant Cardiff at a Blues game. If Cardiff can't embrace regionalism then they should lose their regional franchise. Come to think about it three Welsh regions would be fine...

How can you suggest that Cardiff Blues fans are arrogant by chanting "Cardiff" at Cardiff Blues games?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

offload wrote:I grew up a Pontypool fan and "hated" Newport. Now I'm a season ticket holder with the Dragons and the reason is that over time the Dragons have developed a regional approach. There are good relations with the feeder clubs and the fans stopped chanting Newport. I still wouldn't go and support Newport RFC but I'm happy to support the Dragons. I wish the Board would drop the Newport name too.

! wouldn't support a valley region - pointless. We can't afford the 4 we have without generous benefactors. The Blues are largely to blame for the animosity 10 years on. Norster is an ignorant fool as is anyone arrogant enough to chant Cardiff at a Blues game. If Cardiff can't embrace regionalism then they should lose their regional franchise. Come to think about it three Welsh regions would be fine...

How can you suggest that Cardiff Blues fans are arrogant by chanting "Cardiff" at Cardiff Blues games?

Easily, I just did.
All the "regions" were the same at the start - the product of a flawed introduction. We ended up with a few super clubs with professional players. Regions only in name. Ten years on some have begun to embrace regionalism understanding the future of Welsh professional rugby. Chant Blues at a Blues game and Cardiff at a Cardiff RFC game. Simple concept really. Pitty so many "Blues" fans can't understand.

As a Bridgend supporter and a former Celtic Warrior, would i support the new region? HELL NO! I have converted to the Ospreys, I was a bitter at the beginning but i have no sympathy for Ponty fans.

Don't get me wrong, Sammuels is a snake in the grass, who shafted Bridgend more than he did Ponty. But it was always stated from the beginning that Warriors games at the Brewery field would be a short term solution.

Cue Ponty fans to have hissy fit, turn their back on the Warriors and have since been a feeder club for their most hated rivals...they havn't stopped blydi moaning since.

The region that Ponty fans want would be called Pontypridd, and ALL their games would be played at Sardis Road

Firstly that boat has already sailed, most Bridgend fans are now Ospreys supporters.

The Ospreys have been very clever with Bridgend they have loved them up, raised the Bridgend RFC side from it's death bed and given them £100k a season which is far more than the £10k enjoyed by most other Premiership teams.
Anytime anything positive comes out of Bridgend the Ospreys plaster it all over the place, 6 Porthcawl city in the Ospreys U16 team, promising wing Luke Morgan, Bevington, Prydie, you name it, the Ospreys do everything they can to give good press to the Bridgend area.
Bridgend is very content with the Ospreys.
The only "small thing I'd like to see the Ospreys do, is to do a tie up with Bridgend Ravens, to allow us to have a cheaper season ticket fortheir games as part of our Ospreys season ticket. the same was the Dragons do with Newport.

Pop into any Bridgend supermarket on a Saturday and you will see quite a few Ospreys shirts about. I live in Bridgend I just can't imagine any of us stopping supporting the Ospreys after supporting them since the Celtic Warriors disbanded in 2004.

If there is going to be a 5th region it is going to be in North Wales in Colwyn Bay. They have just built a new 6,000 stadium there and the local counci, the WRU, the Welsh assembly and several other contributors have taken a lot of time and effort to start putting the pieces in place.

Pontypridd have a role in Welsh rugby, that is to supply players to Cardiff, the exact same role they have played in their entire history. Pontypridd is 8 minutes up the A470 from Cardiff. They cannot support a region. If they could the Celtic Warriors would still be around.

BridgendBoyo wrote:As a Bridgend supporter and a former Celtic Warrior, would i support the new region? HELL NO! I have converted to the Ospreys, I was a bitter at the beginning but i have no sympathy for Ponty fans.

Don't get me wrong, Sammuels is a snake in the grass, who shafted Bridgend more than he did Ponty. But it was always stated from the beginning that Warriors games at the Brewery field would be a short term solution.

Cue Ponty fans to have hissy fit, turn their back on the Warriors and have since been a feeder club for their most hated rivals...they havn't stopped blydi moaning since.

The region that Ponty fans want would be called Pontypridd, and ALL their games would be played at Sardis Road

Yes but in all fairness, when regional rugby started up Pontypridd had been a top club for the last 10 years and a flagship for Welsh rugby (Battle of Brive etc). Bridgend were nothing more than a club that had lived off Samuels money for a few years. Both clubs got shafted by the Samuels, WRU and other Superclubs in the end. Now both egos have been dusted off im sure this region would work. The cynics can say what they want. Until this region is given another go we will never know. And as for Pontypridd fans who "havn't stopped blydi moaning since.", well 5000 turned up against Cardiff on boxing day. That speaks in itself

AlynDavies wrote:Pontypridd have a role in Welsh rugby, that is to supply players to Cardiff, the exact same role they have played in their entire history

At least Ponty have a role unlike Bridgend...

Interesting debate.

Introducing another 'region' (superclub) anywhere is a pointless waste of resources when only one of the four existing ones has been consistently competitive against decent opposition (and has ultimately fallen short when it came to the crunch) in the last 8 years.

Either morph the current set up into proper regions, representing North, South, East and West Wales (with no town/city names), or leave it muddle along as it and we can enjoy this same debate for the next 8 years.

By then maybe we'll have two teams that can be competitive in the HC.

Casartelli wrote:morph the current set up into proper regions, representing North, South, East and West Wales (with no town/city names)

I would happily go along with that but if it was seriuosly suggested and considered then make sure you run for cover or get a good umbrella because the dummies of Cardiff, Llanelli and Newport and their fans are gonna be spitting everywhere

Jimmy Moz wrote:At least Ponty have a role unlike Bridgend...

Bridgend have a role... Bridgend Ravens RFC is OWNED by the Ospreys.
We have a club budget of £100k, and our job is to produce players for the Ospreys.
We are doing our job.

Jimmy Moz wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Pontypridd have a role in Welsh rugby, that is to supply players to Cardiff, the exact same role they have played in their entire history

At least Ponty have a role unlike Bridgend...

We do. We supply the Ospreys and Welsh team.

Ponty fans had a chance a region, turns out they didnt really want one. Now they do, it's too blydi late. Bridgend feeds the Ospreys, Ponty feeds the Cardiff Blues that's just the way it is

BridgendBoyo wrote:Ponty fans had a chance a region, turns out they didnt really want one

It was the first year with lots of teething problems. Insult removed Had the Warriors been given more time they would have worked. Insult removed - KRD

Jimmy Moz wrote:

Casartelli wrote:morph the current set up into proper regions, representing North, South, East and West Wales (with no town/city names)

I would happily go along with that but if it was seriuosly suggested and considered then make sure you run for cover or get a good umbrella because the dummies of Cardiff, Llanelli and Newport and their fans are gonna be spitting everywhere

Maybe a few would feel like that but, if they take a long, hard look at what's being achieved, the fans of Cardiff Blues, Llanelli Scarlets and Newport Dragons can't feel that good about year after year in irrelevant mediocrity, can they?

Cardiff had one decent year when their New Zealanders were awesome, but other than that the recital of "when the youngsters come through...when we get a playmaker in midfield...when we get a tighthead...when we get a blindside with plenty of dog..." etc. must get so tiresome for the few fans of all these teams.

Those that want to support a Cardiff team, or a Swansea team, a Llanelli team or a Newport team have the opportunity to do so in the Welsh league, where they belong.

We're a small country - we need four representative regions that all rugby fans can identify with (closely linked to the national team - which still enjoys huge popular support) - or it will always remain a botched compromise.

At least people like myself who turned up to all the Warriors games tried to make a region work. Unlike Cardiff, Llanelli and Newport fans who just turned up watch a rebranded version of the club they always supported

Good post Casartelli

It's shame other people on here didn't have our opened mindedness rather than the classic "It's Cardiff, Llanelli, Newport and Ospreys whether you like it or not"

I'm perfectly happy supporting the Scarlets (not Llanelli). I much prefer it now we are actually a proper region (which we are - you only have to speak to the fans that turn up to Parc y Scarlets to see wehre they've travelled on, hint, a load more places then just Llanelli!)

THey are doing a superb job these last couple of seasons at really representing Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire. Long may it continue.

and now for my admin hat....

I've noticed the beginnings of personal insults creeping into this thread. By all means argue the point, but please, refrain from attacking each other. Thank you.

I watch both Newport RFC and Gwent Dragons, separately. Different players, different coaches, different fans. At no point when I'm watching the Dragons do I feel like I'm watching Newport RFC and vice versa. Sorry if that disappoints you, but I just don't feel the 'rebadged' thing the way you do as I experience them both separately.

As an Northern Irish man living in Pontypridd, a kind of a outsider, I get really frustrated with Welsh rugby and Welsh supporters!

I'm not sure what is wrong with you lot but half of the blame of regional rugby lies with you - that includes your history and tribal like behaviour.
My girlfriend is from Llantrisant and she HATES Cardiff, though they are closest and we 'live' in their region.

I just don't understand why common sense is not allowed to prevail here. I lived in New Zealand and the NPC teams and the Super Rugby Franchises lived very happily together.

You don't need another region, not that Wales would have the players to support another competitive region, the WRU just needs to make the WP teams happy.
I've said this a million times but you Welsh don't like change. Just move the WP to the summer. Boom all your problems gone.
Move it. For 2-3 months of the year make a big song and dance about summer running rugby and the most prestiges price in Welsh domestic rugby.
It makes so much sense, I even wrote something on it.
https://www.606v2.com/t20471-a-suggestion-on-restructuring-the-welsh-premiership

But I honestly believe that you Welsh just love to argue. So best of luck with the empty stadiums, under performing regions and club culture that has been left out to rot.

Good post Jaymaster. Not hard to argue with that. If they don't move the pro game to summer then I'd be very happy to have the welsh prem move to summer, and it could revive the league, revive the rivalries, increase welsh prem attendances, etc. Why not give it a go. It's not like they'd have to get the agreement with other unions, etc. What's the worst that could happen?