Wales - Player ratings and changes

James - 6 - Scrum was solid against a powerful pack, pinged a few times but thats refereeing in the scrum, pretty quiet in the loose
Bennet - 7 - A few lost lineouts but the throwing was pretty good, offered himself a lot to get the hard yards around the ruck and defended fringes well
Jones - 6 - Solid scrum but anonymous in the loose, fell off a few tackles
Charteris - 7 - Keeping his form from the warm ups, starting to tackle like a 6 and clear rucks well
AWJ - 7 - Seems to have his passion back, worked hard all day
Lydiate - 8 - tackled, made to hard yards to set up a platform, disrupted the breakdown
Warburton - 8 - Made turnovers, carried well, tackled well
Felatau - 7 - Quiet in first half but came out firing, hopefully push on from there
Phillips - 6 - Slow ball, still stepping before passing, handy in defence and the odd run
Priestland - 8 - Some very clever kicks, not just punting down the field, awesomely timed passes to Roberts to make some good yards, couple of handy runs as well
Williams - 6 - A few runs, poor tackle for the try, at times didnt return kicks well
Roberts - 7 - Go to man off the lineout and always made yards, tackled well but not creative enough in open play
Davies - 6 - A few line breaks but nothing special, didnt look for the offload when getting tackled
North - 6 - Quiet game for him, a few runs but nothing major, inexperience showing in defence, could see his nerves at times
Hook - 6 - Missed the high ball to set up try, kicking was ok, solid enough in defence

Samoa up next and would sit Shane Williams out, starting with Halfpenny who offers a stronger defence and still enough in attack. If Byrne is training well then start him at 15 to get the game time, Hook on the bench. Don't want to risk changing the team too much against tough opposition.

Agree with pretty much all that scoi

For me, Phillips was again a problem. He doesn't really do anything wrong as such and is physical and confrontational, so it's hard for Gatland to drop him, but he takes so long to get the ball out that the opposition defence is well organised and any element of surprise is gone. I'm certain we could have scored at least 1 more try today with quick ruck ball. Phillips takes this weapon away from us every game.

God we missed a strong bench...I thought Warbs and Toby were the outstanding forwards but Lydiate and Charteris close 2nd...but Dan coughs up pens far too easily.

I would have to say that we should drop Davies and play hook in the centre with Byrne at FB and 1/2 on the wing. Priestland did well but honestly SJ would have steadied us when we needed it...we lack experience and leadership on the park.

I agree griff, thought knoyle would have sniped the breakdown which was far to slow and with his crabbing even slower

Warburton and lydiate were superb. Our back row looks fantastic.
I don't see the need for any changes.

You shouldn't make any (unforced) changes at all for Samoa. It needs to be the absolute strongest team possible. Lose and Wales go home.

James - 6 - solid scrummaging, securing ball in the breakdown was good

Bennett - 9 - His best ever performance for Wales, if he carries on improving he may even challenge Rees when he returns, excellent in the loose and his lineout throwing was brilliant

A.Jones - 6 - See James

A.W.Jones - 7 - Good in the lineout, decent around the park

L.Charteris - 7 - Good in the lineout and in defence, not good in attack

D.Lydiate - 9 - Hit everything that moved and had a huge workrate

Warburton - 9 - Same as Lydiate only with more turnovers

Faletau - 8 - Srong in the loose and off the scrum, good hands too

Phillips - 7 - His physicallity was important in keeping the SA backrow at bay

Preistland - 8 - Good kicking, calm under pressure and good distribution

Williams - 5 - Poor in defence and there was little space for him, without his magic he is a a bit of a liability

Roberts - 7 - Good runs in midfield, always made ground - perhaps not as involved as he should be?

Jonathon Davies - 6 - Solid

North - 6 - Did little in attack, but his defence was ok

Hook - 6 - His open field kicking wasnt great, his placekicking was ok.

Agree as well, but would play Bradley davies in place of Luke Charteris, one thing that always puzzles me, why is Bennet number one hooker for Wales and not first choice for the Ospreys?

he's number 1 hooker for Wales atm metalrhino because Rees and Hibbard are injured.

I'm actually astonished at how well he's playing. He's been so poor for the last couple of seasons (which is why he's not 1st choice for the O's!)

mentalrhino wrote:Agree as well, but would play Bradley davies in place of Luke Charteris, one thing that always puzzles me, why is Bennet number one hooker for Wales and not first choice for the Ospreys?

Hibbard is first choice for the O's and second choice for Wales, but he is injured

Rees is first choice for Wales, but he is injured

Bennett was third choice for Wales, he isnt injured.


Bennett was excellent today, better than Hibbard would have been to be honest.

I thought Jamie Roberts had a very good game. The back row of Wales all played very well, they murdered Pierre Spies, I hope Willem Alberts replaces Spies, he is not physical enough.

Priestland for a young player was calm and colllected.

apart from for the DG biltong

thank you for not gloating bilton, the game could have gone either way,well played both teams.

rugbydreamer wrote:he's number 1 hooker for Wales atm metalrhino because Rees and Hibbard are injured.

I'm actually astonished at how well he's playing. He's been so poor for the last couple of seasons (which is why he's not 1st choice for the O's!)

He's been poor since 2003 really, his biggest problem has always been he goes to pieces at line outs, but over the last few games, he has one really well. Though having Alun-Wyn Jones at the front, which is his club target man, and 6'9" Luke Charteris has clearly helped him today. Their both solid line out players and Wales retained their own ball.
Bennett at the Ospreys is an impact player, we start off with Hibbard who is big and tough to bully teams, then hard working Bennett comes on, who works hard across the park, when the other players around him are tiring.

Why would you bring in Bradley Davies for charteris? His work rate was phenomenal and the line out finally functioned.

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:thank you for not gloating bilton, the game could have gone either way,well played both teams.

Mate, I have never been a gloater, respect.

mentalrhino wrote:Agree as well, but would play Bradley davies in place of Luke Charteris, one thing that always puzzles me, why is Bennet number one hooker for Wales and not first choice for the Ospreys?

Why?

manofgwent wrote:Why would you bring in Bradley Davies for charteris? His work rate was phenomenal and the line out finally functioned.

Gatland has gone on record said he is our number 1 lock, don't know what he has to do to stop most of Wales from wanting to drop him really.

Hook 7 - Had a decent game, took most ofthe high balls and got involved

North 7 - Made ground, and tried, cut out a number of attacks with good defence work.

J Davies 7 - solid but not brilliant, tackled, and got over the gain line

Roberts 8 - solid but not brilliant, tackled, and got over the gain line, sevral slightly better breaks than Davies, and run straight.

Shane Williams 6 - Countered well, though awful lapse for the winning try from South Africa, run straight past a gaping hole and left it. Paul James had to cover the corner of the ruck, so Shane should of filled the gap.

Priestland 7- Sad he missed the drop goal, but is developing into a fantastic player and Wales are developing a ready made replacement for Wellies.

Phillips 8 - back to his Lions form, passed well, and quickly, tackled everything, made ground, took good option, took pressure off Priestland

James 8 - solid in the scrum, and tackled like a demon, world class, just needs to grow shaggy hair like the other Ospreys props and he will be a cult hero.

Bennett 7 - great line out work, was all over the park winning turnovers and being a nuisance.

Adam Jones 7 - His job was to keep the scrum stable, he kept the scrum stable, Kept "the beast" quiet, which was all he needed to do.

Charteris, 8 - put his body on the line, let the defence effort, secured Wales line out, and nullified South Africas main wepon.

Alun Wyn Jones 7 - Rarely stands out in the way some players do, but he does the dirty work and secures the ball at rucks, worth his place in the team.

Lydiate, 8 - tackled everything, secured the ball, worked his backside off.

Warburton 8 - tackled everything, secured the ball, worked his backside off.

Faletau 8 - tackled everything, secured the ball, worked his backside off, took the ball over the gain line countless times.

Charteris' maul defence was fantastic. Burrowed his way forward and got his long arms around the ball carrier. Excellent work

Alun Wyn Jones - tackles = 5, metres = 12, pens = 1

Luke Charteris - tackles = 11, metres = 5, offloads = 1

Charteris is more valuable than he is given credit for!!!!

where'd you get those stat froms? I saw AWJ make way more than 5 tackles!

Agree with you on charteris though, thought he was immense.

Well done Mr Gatland for having the minrales to pick form players and not rely on the likes of Davies, Powell and Byrne.

Limit the changes let the team gain confidence.

Would let Shane sit this one out give Halfpenny a run and maybe Brew off the bench. I

If Byrne fit and training well give him some game time.

Our returning players will have to play well to move Bennett from No1 spot deserves the praise after all the stick he has been given.
Warburton has done enough to keep the captains armband.

Cymro,

I would be more than happy to see Sam stay as skipper now, proved that even in the warm up games.

As for Bennett well lets just say he is going well at mo but his game to performance ratio still very much in the red at moment.

I wouldn't make any changes. Samoa are going to be a big threat. We can't rest players. If we lose to Samoa we'll be pretty much out of the competition.
On Sam warburton. He IS going to be world class, if he's not there already. He carries, he tackles, he reads the game and the amount of times he won turn over ball was phenomenal. Captain and our best player.

Areas of concern for Wales:

Phillips was fantastic in defence but apart from the Try his passing was laboured. Needs to speed up his service.

Similarly Roberts was fantastic on the crash ball but he does not offload, needs to be missed out in the line if Wales want to get the ball wide.

All the fuss about the penalty kick that did or did not go over. The truth is was that it was a sitter that Hook should have put through the middle of the sticks. Hook also got caught out of position a number of times, including the first SA try.

The replay of the Priestland missed DG suggests that if he had hit it straight at the posts it would have been charged down. Quicker service from Phillips might have helped. If Jones is fit he will come under pressure.

Jon Davies is clearly not a natural outside centre, maybe try Hook or swap him and Roberts around.

The only problem up front is the lack of quality impact subs, lack of strength in depth due to injuries and some strange squad selections probably cost Wales the win. A return to fitness by Ryan, Steve Jones, Gethin and Owen will give the coach some more options.

1. James - 6
Scrummaged well, sound in defence and made the yards in attack
2. Bennet - 7
Line out throws generally good, fronted up well and was a presence in the loose
3. Jones - 5
Very solid scrum, poor in the loose, tackled poorly and off the pace
4. Charteris - 7
Line out 8 out of 8 wins, tackled superbly, and energy levels were there throughout. Massive improvement
5. AWJ - 7
Worked hard, and very industrious
6. Lydiate - 7
Tackle count was up there again, made some ground with ball in hand, but still giving penalties away..... what 3 or 4 pens today. These can cost you matches.
7. Warburton - 8
Led by example, tackle count up there again, made the hard yards, but also a few errors crept in
8. Felatau - 7
Wasn't overawed, but 1st half he didnt make much impression, much better 2nd half
9. Phillips - 6
Great defence, agressive play, made some yardage, slow distribution.
10. Priestland - 9
Awareness personified, managed the play between forwards and backs, changed the play around, timed passing made so many opportunities, Roberts is a totally different player with him around.
11. Williams - 5
One of his more quieter games, could have done better with the SA try.
12. Roberts - 7
Different player with an aware 10 and 13 around him. Made the hard yards, and was a constant threat. tired considerably by the 20 min.
13. Davies - 7 -
As usual Gatland used him as cover for Roberts, made some good tackles and some decent runs in the 2nd half -
14. North - 6 - Quiet game, some decent runs and fronted up well against the SA wings, must defend better.
15. Hook - 6 - Missed the high ball to set up try, poor defence for 1st SA try, and where was he for the second under the posts, kicking was ok only, brave in defence throughout.

Gatland - 5
Positives
Brave to put out an attacking side, and nearly pulled it off. Made some big call on Priestland and Toby but fair dos they both came through.
Negatives
Should have had the balls to ring in the changes around the 60/65th minute when some Welsh players were looking very tired
Knoyle for Phillips
1/2p for Shane or maybe Hook (Hook to 10)
Williams for Roberts
Powell to come on for Faletau or Lydiate

Interesting that some people seem a bit nonplussed with Jonathan Davies at centre and want him replaced. The stats show he made the second highest number of metres and had the most clean breaks (2, the only other clean break for Wales came from Faletau) and defenders beaten (4, Faletau next again with 2) to his name.

hawalsh wrote:Interesting that some people seem a bit nonplussed with Jonathan Davies at centre and want him replaced. The stats show he made the second highest number of metres and had the most clean breaks (2, the only other clean break for Wales came from Faletau) and defenders beaten (4, Faletau next again with 2) to his name.

I cant believe any of the posters wanting to replace Davies, beggars belief makes you wonder if they are actually watching the overall match...........

Gatland is playing him as cover for Roberts at 13 which is not his usual style or position, and yet he still makes the most runs, if you noticed the SA blindside and midfield they had an eye on Davies most of the match which meant that Roberts had more room.

So, a game that has been 18 months in the making is over, and Wales lost by one point. I still feel incredibly sick, and it's not from having a mere one hour of sleep in order to see the rugby this morning.

I have to say, everything in the last year and a half seems to me to have been building towards South Africa; defeats were excused as progress for the WC, the style of play changed to one where we can physically compete up front, and, tactically, as we saw today, it was a gameplan which, ultimately, should have gained Wales the win.

So where now? We now face a very, very different prospect in Samoa. It will be no good kicking the ball to them and hoping for our excellent set piece to deliver the goods, as it did against SA. We kick the ball to them, we will get smashed, literally, as they will run it back with abandon. We will need to respect the ball, as we did against South Africa, but surely a more intense game plan will be required if we are to not lose territory on the slow ruck ball?

Bearing in mind we face Namibia and Fiji, before a potential clash with Australia in the QFs (I don't want to be presumptuous, but they looked sublime at times against Italy, and I can't see them losing a group game), what would you like to see?

Tactically, what would you like to see that you saw today, and what would you like to see that you didn't see today? Personally, I feel a higher tempo would tire out the Samoans and lessen their brutal force, but that doesn't mean spin it wide at every opportunity, just going through the phases and the rucks with far more pace. Personnel wise, who would you like to see? Do we leave Priestland at 10, hoping to bed him in for the rest of the campaign, or do we give Hook a go? Will SJ be back, and should he get a look in? Three quarters wise, do we change anything? Swap Shane for the physicality of Brew, or Hook for Byrne for the same reasons? And up front, does anything change? The grunt of Bradley over the proficient lineout under Charteris? Maybe an opportunity for Mitchell, as Adam Jones seemed to be suffering the pace against SA, and perhaps he is too important to play in every group game? What does you finks...

Agree with fly half that gatland maybe should have brought on fresh legs a bit earlier. SA had made 3 or 4 changes and then they scored. As soon as they scored he made a couple of substitutions. It must be a tough call to make though, when we were playing so well and were all over the springboks. I haven't agreed with a lot that warren gatland gas done in the last couple of years, but after a performance like that I'm so encouraged and to think that we have such a young side. Who says the regions aren't working? We have masses of young talent!

mog,

As said I would rest Shane give Halfpenny or Brew a run outside of that leave it as it is let the team grow.

As you are one of his biggest detractors what did you think of AWJs performance today - Thought it was his nest for a while and him and Charteris worked well.

Back row were fantastic as a Unit and should hopefully see them there as a Unit for sometime to come. Toby, despite a few mistakes grew into the game and will only get better. Should have kept his hair though lol

rugbydreamer wrote:where'd you get those stat froms? I saw AWJ make way more than 5 tackles!

Agree with you on charteris though, thought he was immense.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/8753301/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-live-match-centre.html

Was the only site showing stats when I looked earlier!

cheers for the link.

Looking at that, can't believe we only made one substitution. Shows how costly it was that Ryan wasn't fit to be on the bench. Don't think Gats would have trusted Powell to come on in such a close match. Strength in depth may have cost us there.

Hook - 7
North - 6
Davies - 8
Roberts - 9
Williams - 6
Priestland - 8
Phillips - 7
Faletau - 7
Warburton - 9
Lydiate - 7
Jones - 7
Charteris - 8
Jones - 6
Bennett - 8
James - 5

Against Samoa I'd accept a carbon copy of our performance today with the solitary difference being better finishing. We simply have to make possession and territory like that count.

Difficult to disagree with a lot of these ratings, people obviously saw the same game as I did

Roberts is finally being used correctly. Brilliant. Jon Davies suffered from the sheer lack of times that the ball went to his hands in any space. He is a natural outside centre, but one who could do with a 2nd 5/8th inside him (don't think Hook is the right man, in a way, SJ would be more appropriate as he has a better passing game, but think Regan King ) so he can burst off the shoulder and use his exceptional acceleration to get down the field and over the try line. He hasn't done it so far, but Roberts and JD2 are certainly the best pairing we have at the moment. As it is, he uses his bulk to get over the gainline, in a different way to Roberts, but the composure will come over time, and he'll start doing what he does at the Scarlets for Wales, which is very different to what Roberts brings. Scott Williams may have the distribution skills in the future to play 12 to JD2's 13? One thing, he looks a little suspect in defence. Rushed out too often, and got caught out. He's not the most mobile, and if turned, looks sluggish. Needs to work on positioning, not tackling technique, which is excellent.

Bennett and Charteris exceeded expectations. Sublime. AWJ was a workhorse, again, the front row did their job, though Adam seemed to be lacking fitness, nothing I can say can add to the plaudits of the back row. Phillips was very good at times, confrontational, worked the ref well, but passing was too inconsistent. He's worked hard since the 6N and being dropped by the Ospreys, very well, and it shows, but too often he needed a look and a pause when the ball just needed to go. Priestland, very composed, kicked very well. Drop goal aside, almost the perfect game. Shane is Shane, I didn't think he should have started and I stick by that, he shuns all contact nowadays and looked like a rag doll at times, but still, his jinking and drawing finally started getting SA going backwards in the second half. Would've liked to have seen so much more of North, and in space, not just on the crash. Hook did quite well, suspect for Steyn's try, missed kickable kicks, but kicked very well from hand once the early match jitters died down, and rose on the tide created by the pack.

Flyhalf, I think your ratings are very harsh. I'd give Lydiate and Warburton 9s, easily.

ha those stats are way off, they only have Lydiate down as conceding 1 penalty. He deffo conceded 3. Althoguh the tackle count of 17 for him looks about right. He was everywhere on the pitch today.

Our bench is a problem. I'd stick with the same team against Samoa. It's a must win and these guys will be wanting to get on the field and do the job they nearly did today.

Agree with you dragon, although I think georgie might be rested. Looked like he was carrying a knock towards the end of the match.

I'm a bit worried about Warbs' fitness as well, he was really targetted by SA in the 2nd half. Play him against Samoa, risk resting him agains Namibia then bring him back against Fiji.

rugbydreamer wrote:ha those stats are way off, they only have Lydiate down as conceding 1 penalty. He deffo conceded 3. Althoguh the tackle count of 17 for him looks about right. He was everywhere on the pitch today.

I thought they looked odd!!!
Would love to see the stats that Gatland and co have on their laptops!!

Their stats will probably show that Rob Howley has won more games of Solitaire than Shaun Edwards

well those stats only have Warbs down for 12 tackles, when on tv they had him down for 20!

you're probably right about that!

Thought Priestland and Faletau really put in a great performance considering their experience which before the match I admit I was a bit hesitant about their inclusion, I'm glad they proved me(and a lot of people) wrong.

Mike,

Didn't have any doubts over Faletau but had few over Priestland at 10. For me I would have originally started him at XV Hook at 10.

How much do I know eh lol

bedfordwelsh wrote:Mike,

Didn't have any doubts over Faletau but had few over Priestland at 10. For me I would have originally started him at XV Hook at 10.

How much do I know eh lol

I know Toby is a great player, and have been impressed with him in the autumn tests, but I did think he was quite raw, but during the 2nd half of that game he really started playing with that exuberance that we've been missing from our number 8 and took his try very well

Really struggling to find a site with the player stats.
I would have thought the rugby world cup site would have had them but I can't see any!

Try here - http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-union-match-centre/live-blog-south-africa-v-wales-20110911-1k3xy.html

ha they don't have the Welsh team making any tackles on those stats! Maybe sites are still compiling them??

Thespacedragon wrote:Really struggling to find a site with the player stats.
I would have thought the rugby world cup site would have had them but I can't see any!

Try here - http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-union-match-centre/live-blog-south-africa-v-wales-20110911-1k3xy.html

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/match/93465.html

Don't know how accurate it is.