England Player Ratings v Wales

My Own:

Brown - 8 - Another solid all round game from Brown and a stunning amount of ground covered in attack (145m's and 7! defenders beaten)

Nowell - 5 - Probably at best an average performance, looked uncomfortable marking North and ended the game with 3 missed tackles to his name. Had one chance in the second half at redemption but faltered rather then going for it.

Burrell - 7 - The find of the tournament so far for England, he brought pace and brilliant running lines to the midfield against Wales, clocked up 8 tackles (the most in the backs) and a key try while almost got another.

Twelvetrees - 7 - A much better performance from 36, good passing and kicking throughout and he made the right decisions at the right times. Passed the ball 15 times in this match, that's probably more then all the other 12's in the past couple of years combined.

May -4- Played like a school kid who never usually gets the ball

Farrell - 7 - Really good all round game from Farrell, at the beginning he kept the ball in hand in the red zone a couple of times but otherwise pretty faultless, and his critics will be upset that he did it all without a single moment of anger

Care - 9 - The architect of nearly everything good for this England team, marshals the pack well, adds tempo and danger in attack and got another try

Marler - 7 - Deserves a lot of plaudits for how he's come on in the scrum, looked totally unaffected by the Welsh props but didn't get around the park as much as we'd hope for

Hartley - 6 - A very good all round game from Hartley capped off by a sterling tackling displayed (13 and 0 missed) was marred by the experienced player gifting Wales a heck of a lot of points

Wilson - 7 - Once Poite realised the Welsh props cheating Wilson had a fairly simple time of it at the scrum, he may look like he'd struggle to keep up in a pub league but his stunning break and pace shows how deceptive that is! 2 defenders beaten as well. Lunacy

Launchberry - 8 - The perfect foil to Lawes, Joe carried very well and had his best game of the tournament so far, does everything so well

Lawes - 8 - The perfect compliment to Launchberry, Lawes offloaded well but it was his tackling that made the difference, so many quality hits that stopped the Welsh momentum in it's tracks, and he was still sprinting and making those hits in the final 10 mins of the game

Wood - 8 - If the Launchberry/Lawes combo is a perfect balance then Englands backrow is the perfect triumvirate. Wood tackles himself to a standstill and didn't stop wading into rucks to dislodge any Welsh ball he could get to

Robshaw - 8 - Woods defensive shift allowed Robshaw time to get going with the ball, he passed well, offloaded from contact and became another key attacking fulcrum for the team. Both flankers will be disappointed with the lack of turnovers at the breakdown but that's the only blip

Morgan - 8- Had a slightly less visual performance compared to his sub appearances but did well to stay in the game for so long, got through a hell of a lot of tackles and again worked well with his two colleagues in the backrow

Ok lots of 8's in that pack but that's for a reason. Englands pack as a unit played above averagely, every player had a clear role to fulfill and accomplished it well and while there were still small handling errors and sloppy moments on the whole it was a well oiled machine that kept the Welsh pack pretty much out of the game and set the platform for the backs to run around a lot.

Telegraph

Mike Brown
Showed fantastic skill again by claiming his own kick in the air and once again was England's most dangerous broken-field runner. A rock in defence too. 8/10
Jack Nowell
Made some hard yards and was a solid under the high ball but lost his way in an important counter-attack will have been disappointed at a missed tackle on North. 7
Luther Burrell
A great restart take underlined his commitment and physical presence and showed great positioning and timing of his run to score his third try of an impressive debut championship. 8
Billy Twelvetrees
Made some poor kicking choices early on and forced a pass to Hartley but grew into the game and organised the play and executed the chip for Burrell's try to perfection. 7
Jonny May
Was once again England's most elusive runner and his pace caused Wales problems when he found space to attack. England need to bring him into the game more often. 7
Owen Farrell
Another immaculate kicking display, both from out of hand and a goal. Delivered from superb restarts and demonstrated a wide range of kicks to find space behind the Welsh back three. 8
Danny Care
Was at the heart of England's attempt to play the game at a tempo and his quick-thinking exploited sloppy defending to score his try and out-kicking his opposite number. 8
Joe Marler
Ferociously physical display by the Harlequins looshead, making a high number of tackles and delivering some forceful carries from around the fringes. Solid scrummaging display. 8
Dylan Hartley
Was guilty of conceding three penalties that kept Wales in the game and escaped sin bin for a dangerous tackle but was forceful presence in the loose and threw superbly. 6
David Wilson
His storming break into the Welsh 22 and back of the hand offload to Robshaw in the opening minutes was one of the champagne moments of the game. A sweat-soaked shift. 8
Joe Launchbury
The Wasps forward is pushing Mike Brown for England's player of the championship. Demonstrated his remarkable athleticism with critical carries and tackles and pressurised the Welsh line-out. 8
Courtney Lawes
Managed to operate like an outside centre, with a stunning back of the hand offload that almost resulted in a second try for Burrell, yet once again was a menacing presence at the coalface, landing some shuddering tackles. Superb. 9
Tom Wood
Once again was happy to roll up his sleeves and do most of the unseen and unsung work, both in the line-out and breakdown. A relentless work-rate. 8
Chris Robshaw
Played an important link-role, particularly as England gained the upper hand in the first half, and his tackle count limited Wales' front-foot ball. 8
Ben Morgan
Not quite the ball carrying impact of Billy Vunipola but managed to use his pace and power to give England central attacking platforms and made some critical tackles. 7
Replacements: Mako Vunipola struggled in his first scrum but brought energy to England's ball carrying in the final quarter along with Tom Youngs. George Ford, Lee Dickson, Henry Thomas, Alex Goode had no time to make an impact.

Guardian

Mike Brown 7

Has looked sharp in the Six Nations this year and yesterday was no different. Consistently gained ground and consistently beat players.

Jack Nowell 6

North put in an early hit and after that seemed to rattle the winger. Gained some yards but he rarely troubled the Welsh defence.

Luther Burrell 7

Scored one try and was unlucky not to record another after a sensational flowing move that was stopped by a late Halfpenny tackle.

Billy Twelvetrees 7

Started slowly but it was his perfectly weighted grubber that laid on the try for Burrell and the Gloucester man worked hard throughout

Jonny May 6

Handled the ball well enough but too often was peripheral to the game. Had one promising break down the right that came to nothing

Owen Farrell 8

The fly-half was impeccable throughout. Did not miss a single kick from the ground and rarely misplaced anything that had been in his hands

Danny Care 7

His speed of thought and foot, not once but twice, in the opening moments of the game ensured England got off to the perfect start

oe Marler 7

Delivered tackle after tackle and carry after carry. Rarely made a mistake but did get taken down a bit too easily by Rhys Webb

Dylan Hartley 5

Not Hartley's finest game. He gave away three penalties that allowed Wales to keep in touch and should have received a yellow card

David Wilson 7

Worked hard throughout the game. His early break in the Wales half, after being set free by Robshaw, led indirectly to England's first try

Joe Launchbury 7

Got over his back problem to put in yet another solid performance. Does much of the dirty work that goes unseen by the cameras

Courtney Lawes 8 – man of the match

Failed to roll away in an early ruck, giving Wales a penalty, but after that his performance was almost pitch perfect. Deserved man of the match

om Wood 8

No one else put in as many tackles for England and no one else won as many lineouts. An outstanding performance

Chris Robshaw capt 7

Revved up his side before the game and never let the intensity drop until the whistle went. Put Warburton in the shade

Ben Morgan 7

Fitted in fairly seamlessly for Vunipola. His power and his pace gave Wales plenty to think about during his time on the pitch

Evening Standard

Mike Brown – 8

He may be Mr Angry, but Mr Reliable is not far off the mark. Dangerous with ball in hand and proved once again what a player he is. Sparked the backline into life.

Jack Nowell – 7

Given he was up against North, coped very well and showed his turn of pace on occasion.

Luther Burrell – 9

Scored his third try in four Tests to put England clear. Could have had a breathtaking second had he not tried to barge over Halfpenny. Outstanding nonetheless.

Billy Twelvetrees – 7

Coped much better with Roberts’ hard-running, and his deft kick was perfectly weighted for Burrell’s try. Grew into the game as it went on, and can be proud of his performance.

Jonny May – 6

His major threat seems to come on the switchback, but if given the chance to run he can definitely punish teams. Somewhat starved of ball in attacking spaces.

Owen Farrell – 9

Ran the show superbly in what was arguably his finest outing in the Red Rose. Perfect kicking record kept the scoreboard ticking, and he continues to develop into a fine player.

Danny Care – 8

Give this man space at your peril. Set-up and scored the first try from a tap-and-go, and sniped around the edges all afternoon.

Joe Marler – 7

Recovered from a first scrum-shock to give England a solid platform. Departed after 64 minutes after a good day’s shift.

Dylan Hartley – 7

Without a doubt England’s first-choice hooker. His accuracy at the lineout rivals the best in the world, and tackled his heart out today.

David Wilson – 8

Doesn’t look like a man two games into his comeback from injury. Departed when the game was one, and his break that set up the first try was eye-catching.

Joe Launchbury – 7

England have a jewel of a second-row right now, and Launchbury is only getting better. Bossed the defence and used his pace to plug the gaps. Thudding hit on Roberts defined his game.

Courtney Lawes – 9

His bruising reputation was boosted today with a man-of-the-match performance. Tackled anything red that moved, and even bounced off the referee at one point.

Tom Wood – 7

Remained quiet, but that’s exactly what you want from a top quality blindside. Work around the edges was as good as has become expected.

Chris Robshaw (c) – 8

Took a few big hits but got up as always. Played his heart out and the win is a just reward for his two previous defeats against Wales.

Ben Morgan – 7

The absence of Billy Vunipola wasn’t felt as Morgan handled the burdon of carrying the ball very well. Made some hard yards, and bailed England out of trouble when they were on the back foot.

Best off the bench – Mako Vunipola – 6

Made some good runs to tire the Welsh defence late-on.

I think Yappy is closer to the truth than the Journos - probably my only very slight change would be to drop Morgan from 8 to 7, because his prime role is as a power ball carrier, and Wales did a pretty good job of controlling him in that role.

Would have been harsh to card Hartley for the tackle on Faletau, as it was TF jumping to collect a bad pass that caused the issue. If we start seeing cards for that we'll see a lot of players jumping to collect passes when they are anticipating it being a bit 'man and ball'.

I am not convinced by Nowell and May yet and feel the paper ratings I have seen (Guardian and Independent also give the 7) are a mark high.

5 and 4 though seems crazy. May does need to trust himself a little more, though the team tactic that the wingers stay very wide gives little room outside players. As May made 98m forward with ball in hand - I would love to know how much he made sideways too.

I could not in all honesty give Morgan more than 7.

This was definitely not as good by Hartley as previous matches, compounded by the silly penalties. the lost lineout was not his fault especially - more a good read by AWJ and that Lawes likes to catch the ball fairly low, so sometimes it can look as if Hartley has underthrown. (By contrastLeicester like to catch the ball very high in the flight - so if lifters are late the hooker can appear to have overthrown). Hartley did have a few throws that were rather squint and other refs would have penalised (though maybe not AP ones who seem to let crooked ones go now).

Cheers guys

On the wings I genuinely thought they were the worst players in the team, May caused his own side so many issues. Not just because he doesn't make that much distance going forward but he also runs away from his support players, you can see that no one knows where he's going to go and it makes it impossible for the rest of the backs to work off him.

Nowell just seems uncertain but then he is extremely young and has little experience of AP let alone top level rugby.

bit harsh on the wingers maybe. agree with the rest of your scores though.

may and nowell only got quality ball from the boot of 1/2P or Priestland! England appeared to rarely spin the ball wide. at least a couple of times MAy had to pick it off the ground after a loose pass.

i still think that keeping good width helps stretch the welsh defensive line in the middle, and when the ruck is also centre field, it creates a real attacking threat if England can go right to Farrell or left to 36, both of whom are capable of deft passes or kicks. so any winger who comes in to replace may or nowell will have to play the same way they do as that appears to be Bomber's instructions. v wide, coming inside to avoid being bundled into touch.

will be really interesting to see how may/nowell go against italy.

yappysnap wrote:Cheers guys

On the wings I genuinely thought they were the worst players in the team, May caused his own side so many issues. Not just because he doesn't make that much distance going forward but he also runs away from his support players, you can see that no one knows where he's going to go and it makes it impossible for the rest of the backs to work off him.

Nowell just seems uncertain but then he is extremely young and has little experience of AP let alone top level rugby.

So uncertain that he only carried for 103m and beat 5 defenders

Good ratings yappysnap.  

Nowell did ok, but froze when a huge opportunity opened up for him to just pin his ears back and go. Any of Wade, Yarde or Ashton would have just put on the afterburners and made for line in the opposite corner. I think part of that may be that Nowell's natural position is full back rather than being an out and out wing. He is young though, and the experience he is getting now bodes well for the future.

I suspect for the World Cup we will go with 5 back 3 players in the squad. Brown is a certainty barring injury, so it's then 4 from Goode, Ashton, Wade, Yarde, Nowell, May and Watson. Nowell has a good chance of going as he covers full back and wing and Bomber clearly rates him as he's been picking him ahead of Watson.

Oh, and pretty spot on with your ratings yappy.

Ozzy3213 wrote:
I suspect for the World Cup we will go with 5 back 3 players in the squad.  Brown is a certainty barring injury, so it's then 4 from Goode, Ashton, Wade, Yarde, Nowell, May and Watson.

No Foden?

Good ratings, Yappysnap. Pretty much concur. Was screaming at Nowell to pin his ears back, per Ozzy's point, and May just infuriated me running across the field and losing any hope of supporting runners knowing where he's going, or even running direct lines off his cross field wanderings....

I complete forgot about Foden as he's not been in the international picture recently. If he makes the tour squad in the summer then obviously he's in with a shout. If not, I think he'll only make it if others get injured.

Question...

Is it sometimes a problem to have too many options?:

Wing - May, Yarde, Wade, Nowell, Ashton, Watson,

Second Row - Launchbury, Lawes, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Garvey, Kitchener, Slater...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Question...

Is it sometimes a problem to have too many options?:

Wing - May, Yarde, Wade, Nowell, Ashton, Watson,

Second Row - Launchbury, Lawes, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Garvey, Kitchener, Slater...

Not a problem given our attrition rate...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Question...

Is it sometimes a problem to have too many options?:

Wing - May, Yarde, Wade, Nowell, Ashton, Watson,

Second Row - Launchbury, Lawes, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Garvey, Kitchener, Slater...

Absolutely not, so long as you have in your own mind your pecking order. Is only a problem if you are indecisive.

What if non are standing out...all playing at the same good level of perfromance...do you judge on age / potential?

From a Welsh view point my ratings would be:
Marler 7, Hartley 6, Wilson 7, Launchbury 7, Lawes 8, Wood 7, Robshaw 7, Morgan 7, Care 8, Farrell 7, May 5, Twelvetrees 7, Burrell 7, Nowell 6, Brown 9.

In the Welsh team only 1/2p would get an 8 and there would be a fair few 5's, maybe one or two 4's.

In reality that's unlikely to happen Geordie. There are lots of variables. In my book if you are not in the side you need to be playing better than the man in possession of the jersey to get it, so if you are just at the same level, then you miss out. Individual strengths and weaknesses in relation to the game plan could also come in to it along with a host of other things.

I can only see having depth of quality as a positive.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Question...

Is it sometimes a problem to have too many options?:

Wing - May, Yarde, Wade, Nowell, Ashton, Watson,

Second Row - Launchbury, Lawes, Attwood, Kruis, Barrow, Garvey, Kitchener, Slater...

Absolutely not, so long as you have in your own mind your pecking order.  Is only a problem if you are indecisive.

This.

It's all good as long as your a strong coach, if your an 'Andy Robinson' then it's a hindrance. There are approx 11 International tests every season along with various friendlies, that's more then enough to work out who's a starter and who's not.

Nowell also missed 3 tackles and completed 2. Not the best stats to have.

yappysnap wrote:Nowell also missed 3 tackles and completed 2. Not the best stats to have.

Which is his worst tackling performance of the series. He handld Picamoles quite well in the France game and hasn't been found wanting in defence otherwise, but North was simply too big, strong and fast. Good thing he (North) hardly got his hands on the ball in any attacking positions.

Also was counter-rucked off one ball after May had run across the field - then again at his size he'll always struggle when Jamie Roberts hits him...

Agree with all of those ratings I would say Yappy. Morgan has been a little underscored in some papers I feel. His carrying was good and was always going to receive special attention from Wales.

Where he stood out is in a department he was below par in, defence. He put in some powerful hits, made 15 tackles and stripped the ball twice. His handling was also good.

I agree the wings haven't stood out. I still feel May has a lot to offer but we haven't really seen it yet. Nowell just needs more time for Exeter but I think he'll come back and be very strong in a season or two.

At present wing seems a difficult one. Yarde and Wade would seem first choice but they have two or three caps each?!

dummy_half wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Nowell also missed 3 tackles and completed 2. Not the best stats to have.

Which is his worst tackling performance of the series. He handld Picamoles quite well in the France game and hasn't been found wanting in defence otherwise, but North was simply too big, strong and fast. Good thing he (North) hardly got his hands on the ball in any attacking positions.

Also was counter-rucked off one ball after May had run across the field - then again at his size he'll always struggle when Jamie Roberts hits him...

Yep, Jack will be disappointed with both the missed tackles and that counter-ruck, as will Robshaw with his 4 missed tackles, not great stats for a tackle monster flanker (albeit he did succeed with plenty) who was given 8/10.

To be fair, I haven't rewatched the game and I can't recall any missed tackles from Robshaw and only one from Jack when North skinned him, and I was surprised by the amount of metres carried - that's stats for you.
Nowell actually did better tackling against North in last year's HC game against Scarlets, even when he was concussed.

yappysnap wrote:Nowell also missed 3 tackles and completed 2. Not the best stats to have.

yes, but he slowed down george north each time such that he only made a couple of metres past him before getting swamped by white shirts.

marking george north, and restricting him to less metres gained than nowell himself counts as a victory in my book. and lets not forget george north also rolled back some of the english back row.

I don't trust the stats. Stuff like tackle percentage are all a bit confusing to me. If for instance, a double-hit is made or a tackle is half-made and then some-one comes in to finish it off who gets the tick?

How, and how many stattos collate the scores?

So much is subjective.

My son is an international trampoline judge and they have to make assessments in an instant in a non-contact sport and he finds it hell to decide.

Many of those stats in rugby must be guesses imo. Which get evened out over time assuming no subjectivity from the data gatherer.

I doubt that a single game is a reliable basis for opinion-forming especially as not all the infinite available variety of stats are recorded.

They can at best be considered only a guide. Never evidential fact.

Accenture does the stats. they were originally an accounting firm. i would trust them to do as good a job as its possible to do.

OK quins, I concede that Accenture provide the rough guide - not OPTA.

But my points remain. Many statto decisions like those of refs must be entirely subjective and debatatable.

i agree. and even if they are reliable they dont tell the whole story. but sometimes they are illuminating.