England Shirt numbers and Brand Haskell

So, is anyone else getting eye pain trying to see the numbers on the new Nike shirts.?

England have been warned as they suffered the same occurrence in the 2003 6N and world cup where the numbers started peeling off the new tops.

Also, what do people reckon about Haskell's performance so far ?

He seems to be playing with a bit more assertiveness at the moment, but where to put him? We're getting the same problem with him that we had with Cpt. Corry and Dayglo

i think he has the potential to be the best no 8 in the world

caoimhincentre wrote:i think he has the potential to be the best no 8 in the world

I think this comeptitoin is a chance for him to show that

your first name is Lawrence and i claim my £5

actually, given how he's improved in the various positions he's played over the last year, If he stuck in one, with this attitude he could become very good indeed.

Thats waht you get for picking up cheap cast offs from the all blacks

( i mean the shirts not the players)

I have said many times that the england backrow is out of balence.

6. Croft
7. Wood
8. Haskell

Is I would think your best combo. Croft to do the chopping and assist wood at the breakdown, Wood to do the fetching and ball scrapping and Haskell to be a reliable and pacy link man aas well as a reasonable ball carrier.

MJ just does not seem to realise this and insits on playing the powerful if a little slow Easter at number 8.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have said many times that the england backrow is out of balence.

6. Croft
7. Wood
8. Haskell

Is I would think your best combo. Croft to do the chopping and assist wood at the breakdown, Wood to do the fetching and ball scrapping and Haskell to be a reliable and pacy link man aas well as a reasonable ball carrier.

MJ just does not seem to realise this and insits on playing the powerful if a little slow Easter at number 8.

+1

We only have 2 fully fit flankers, 1 number 8 and Haskell, so Haskell might have to move around in the World Cup, but after the World Cup Haskell should look to nail one spot down. I think Croft and Wood could have a good battle at 6, so Haskell should stick at 7 or 8. Croft and Wood could even play 6 and 7, in which case Haskell at 8 could be a good option. It depends where he settles for his club, and if any other number 8 comes through (Narraway, Crane, Waldrom, Guest etc)

I would have thought that the officials would have asked England to change shirts at half time I presume they have a spare set.

Any incident and ref more often than not ask the touch judges if they had a number.

That's the plan. It's why we only got one yellow card (damn Cole's beard).

I'd also got for Croft, Wood and Haskell with Moody on the bench if fit.

If it doenst work out ofr Haskell he could always set up a range of branded shirts, just have to be vcareful not to impinge on any copyrighted colours

I thought the Kiwis and the Frogs would be getting the same font type as their Nike shirts are pretty much the same arn't they .?

Oh that would be typical of New Zealand to rip off Englands shirts

All very well establishing himself......but he's gonna miss the entire next 6n's aint he....

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have said many times that the england backrow is out of balence.

6. Croft
7. Wood
8. Haskell

Is I would think your best combo. Croft to do the chopping and assist wood at the breakdown, Wood to do the fetching and ball scrapping and Haskell to be a reliable and pacy link man aas well as a reasonable ball carrier.

MJ just does not seem to realise this and insits on playing the powerful if a little slow Easter at number 8.

that backrow is even more out of balance!! you have 3 blindside flankers, no specialist number 8 or openside flanker. Not saying it is a bad backrow but when you look at balence you need a fetcher.....Brussow, pocock, Mccaw, a rugged abrasive blindside....schalk burger, juan smith, rocky elsom, Kaino and a specialist 8 Read, Spies, parisse, Fernadenz lobbe etc...

Thats why hill, back, dayglo were so effective because they were all specialist in their postion.... at the moment in our squad we have 4 blindside flankers, a number 8 and a lock that can cover blindside flanker !

I mentioned it was a good combo,

Wood is a great fetcher, Croft can do the chopping and he is a quick and able ball carrier and finally Haskell who is not as big and powerful as Read and Spies and more of an elusive runner like Parisse.

Lets face it I would take that back row over any of the combinations MJ has coughed up recently.

Easter is just a big lump of a man with no pace and does not really create or link play the way I would like to see a number 8 doing, although he has a better rugby brain than Haskell I just feel he physically is not as effective as Haskell.

Moody's injury rate is akin to the Eastbourne Zimmer Frame 3rd XV and to be honest he could slot into that team easier than the England team.

Haskell, Croft and Wood I would say are England's best backrow players and it just so happens they can create a backrow balance that england lack.

In truth I think Narraway is Englands best no 8 but he was left at home.

The shirt numbers thing is an embarrasment isn't it? Anyone notice that Youngs number was already peeling off before he even cam on the pitch?

As for Haskell, I think his physical abilities would be well suited to being an 8, but has been a bit a victim of his own versatility in the last couple of years and so has been shuffled to where he's needed. Croft at 6 and Haskell 8 would be a good combination if we could find a true 7 (Rees would have been the obvious choice, but he's even more injury prone than Moody).

Does anybody else wish that seabiscuit could spell properly? I actually wince at the sight of his poor English sometimes.

"Easter is just a big lump of a man with no pace and does not really create or link play the way I would like to see a number 8 doing,..."

He is however, extremely strong going forward from 5 to 10 metres out. Very powerful and has been known to score tries from that distance.

englandglory4ever wrote:"Easter is just a big lump of a man with no pace and does not really create or link play the way I would like to see a number 8 doing,..."

He is however, extremely strong going forward from 5 to 10 metres out. Very powerful and has been known to score tries from that distance.

True enough, however that's nothing that Lawes, Palmer or Croft couldn't do. Moreover that sort of work can even be done by the likes of Sherridan and Thompson IMO.

My biggest problem with Easter is for all the grunt and power he brings I still feel in my heart England have better players than him. If it's an attritional pick and drive game that you want to play by all means bring Easter. However if England want to try play the game with a higher tempo and a flashier Ashton/Foden/Armitage style of play Haskell's pace to get to the breakdown and support these guys would be a better use of the number 8 rather than another bulldozing ball carrier.

dummy_half wrote:The shirt numbers thing is an embarrasment isn't it? Anyone notice that Youngs number was already peeling off before he even cam on the pitch?

As for Haskell, I think his physical abilities would be well suited to being an 8, but has been a bit a victim of his own versatility in the last couple of years and so has been shuffled to where he's needed. Croft at 6 and Haskell 8 would be a good combination if we could find a true 7 (Rees would have been the obvious choice, but he's even more injury prone than Moody).

too many pats on the back running out through the tunnel

I agree, Haskell needs to target this position in his club and push for a more stable selection policy with jonno, there's only so much ambiguity we can have chopping and changing before we get found out at this level. They're doing a job, but some international stability with his current playing mindset would do Haskell and England wonders.

englandglory4ever wrote:He is however, extremely strong going forward from 5 to 10 metres out. Very powerful and has been known to score tries from that distance.

What, all of 5 times in his career - 4 against Wales in the warm up game at Twickers in 2007?!?!

The difference between Twickenham - Cardiff - Dublin - Dunedin was simple. At Twickers and Dublin, Easter was not playing, therefore we generated quicker ball.
I've been a fan of Easter for a number of years, but the speed at which the game is being played in the last 12 months has meant he is stuggling to keep up.

To me Easter is in a somewhat specialised role. He is obviously slow, but as you guys said, strong with a good Rugby brain. I like the idea of Haskell starting at 8 to see if England can leverage his quickness. Then bring on Easter if Haskell makes a hash of it or if England need to close out a match. Wood and Croft will do fine on the flanks.

And to the number thing - they shoud not come off. That's a joke.

damage_13 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:The shirt numbers thing is an embarrasment isn't it? Anyone notice that Youngs number was already peeling off before he even cam on the pitch?

As for Haskell, I think his physical abilities would be well suited to being an 8, but has been a bit a victim of his own versatility in the last couple of years and so has been shuffled to where he's needed. Croft at 6 and Haskell 8 would be a good combination if we could find a true 7 (Rees would have been the obvious choice, but he's even more injury prone than Moody).

too many pats on the back running out through the tunnel

I agree, Haskell needs to target this position in his club and push for a more stable selection policy with jonno, there's only so much ambiguity we can have chopping and changing before we get found out at this level. They're doing a job, but some international stability with his current playing mindset would do Haskell and England wonders.

He needs to get a club contract on the same side of the planet as England first, then he can worry what position hes playing

"He needs to get a club contract on the same side of the planet as England first, then he can worry what position hes playing."

As i said earlier in this thread....he's gonna miss the full 6n isnt he?

So he might well make the 8 spot his own this wc (Easter will have something to say about that) but then he is away. And if someone like Fearns excels at Bath, or Narraway/Guest nail the No.8 spot, then he may find his position taken again.

considering how he, jonny and tommo improved in France I don't believe for a minute that players of this quality will be 'out' of selection.

I think that playing in France will offer some players a better opportunity to thrive.

How long is Haskell playing in Japan for?

Im pretty sure that whilst he is away on his Sabatical....he WONT be available for selection.....or should i say Johnno wont be selecting him.

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/story/148899.html

"The white numbers, applied by a local company in New Zealand, failed to bond properly on the black jerseys and began to rub off during England's opening victory over Argentina."

You steal New Zealand's colours and they'll bite back!

Haskell is in Japan thorugh the spring. I am not sure when their season ends of if he will be available for any June Internationals. But he is suposed to be back in the Loving Embrace of Mother England in time for the 2012-2013 season.

Haskell, a decent club player, brings so little at international standard its scary anyone finds him more than a very ordinary player. I actually urge you to watch him carefully during a game to see how little he does.

I have to wonder what Dowson did to upset the English managment, he is twice the player Haskell is. And I'm not a Northampton fan btw, just someone who watches rugby carefully and doesn't just judge a player based on their build.

Logie,
i think you are under rating Mr. Haskell. On the other hand, I agree completely about Dowson. Dowson is not glamorous at all but does all the little gritty things which make a backrower. I think he has a winning mentality and is very tough. Unfortunately, its rather moot as haskell is in NZ and Dowson is in Northampton. But, with injuries, one never knows.......

sirtidychris wrote:
Thats why hill, back, dayglo were so effective because they were all specialist in their postion.... at the moment in our squad we have 4 blindside flankers, a number 8 and a lock that can cover blindside flanker !

Well Back was a specialized 7 but the other 2 played everywhere in the back row.

As for Haskell when he first appeared I did think he could turn into a very good player indeed. He then went about proving me and it seems a fair few others wrong for a few years but you never know. He is looking much more the part. I am a great fan of Easter, who has been vital for England for a few years but a combination of him off form a little and with Haskell improving Easter isnt being missed at all when hes not playing.

England have been warned they face a fine if the numbers on their World Cup shirts peel off again during the event.

The white numbers on the controversial all-black kit began to rub off during England's gruelling win over Argentina, breaching tournament regulations.

The tournament organisers said they would be seeking assurances from England that there will be no repeat in Sunday's Pool B encounter with Romania.

An England spokesman insisted the problem was being addressed.

The spokesman, who would not confirm whether the same numbers would be used against Romania, said: "Nobody has contacted us yet. They know we will sort it out."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14878090.stm

"Thats why hill, back, dayglo were so effective because they were all specialist in their postion"

Didnt Lol start as a 6, then move to 8
ANd i thought Richard Hill was predominantly a 7, but was simply sublime at 6.

For me the back row is becoming more interchangable, as they all need to be alrounders rather than specialists (Maybe 7 still has its specialists but not as it used to be) - tackle, ruck, speed, lineout, etc etc.

Our potential back row (8 Haskell, 7 Wood, 6 Croft) is gearing up to that.

The backrow needs to be 6.Croft 7.Wood 8.Haskell

Although I think we'll see 6.Wood 7.Moody 8.Haskell run out against Georgia this weekend, which i think could be just as good if Moody does stay fit.

I am a massive fan of Easter but he has just gone backwards over these last few games, he seems to have got lazy and gives away a lot of silly penalties. Especially with Moody back i'd have the on form Haskell in at 8 every time.

"I am a massive fan of Easter but he has just gone backwards over these last few games, he seems to have got lazy and gives away a lot of silly penalties."

That just about sums it up for me too. Giving stupid pens away is my main gripe with him. He needs to clean up his act and quick.

why cant we just wear our white shirts?

ermmmm.....
Hill was a 7 that moved to 6 when Back started playing for England.
I also believe that Dallaglio was a 6 initially, before becoming a very good 8.

What I think you really need is 3 backrowers that are capable of performing well in all positions. That way they all have fetcher, scrapping, tackling, linking abilities.
Afterall the game is so quick now that even the fastest flankers can't get to every breakdown... Therefore you need whoever is there to be able to perform whatever job is needed.



As for Easter, I believe that all recent stats have shown that he has made more yards than Haskell in every game.
I am a big advocate for Haskell at 8.... especially for Wasps when he comes back.
However, it's hard to say that Easter is doing badly.

What Haskell needs is to play at 8 regularly for his club.
When he becomes a first choice club 8, then I believe he will very quickly become England's 8....
This consistency will then probably improve his ball control skills, and he then has all the physical attributes to become a World Class (not just international class) Number8.

The problem is, does he have the mental attributes

cricketfan90 wrote:why cant we just wear our white shirts?

It's probably the shirt itself that's the problem rather than the colour.

Is it only me that laughed at the fact a NZ company gave England dodgy number tags for their away shirts? Especially given the up-roar about Englands black kit from some down that way.

England had to wear their alternative (black) strip against Argentina as they (Argentina) were the side designated to wear their home kit.

I'm not quite sure why a NZ business would risk its reputation as a business by producing an inferior product on purpose. I wonder how much uproar there was in NZ today when Canada played in their (black) away shirt ?

I thought it was quite understandable that Canada wore their away jersey against Tonga,as both their traditional jerseys are red.
the fact that their away jersey is black is immaterial...literally.

But it's not understandable for England to wear their away shirt when playing Argentina and it's not immaterial that it's also black ?

Well I'm assuming that the White & LightBlue of Argentina looks too much like the all White of England...

Mainly on the wide angle and high shots on a black and white TV.

Plus, a lot of people are colour blind, and even slightly similar colours (i.e. Argentina and England Home kit) do look similar at a distance and on the faster moving shots.

OR if they were covered in blood and mud.

Oh come on who's kidding who, its a cheap shot at NZ. i particularly like the carefully designed peeling numbers

Thats done to evade identification by referees.

Haskell's perf so far:

Clearly he is the best in the world

thanks Kiwireddevil.

I was rather stupidy 'proud' of my first thread, the questions I posed and the discussions within.

but....

no one answered one point I made.

does anyone get eye strain trying to read the numbers when the camera is zoomed out

I found it really annoying and its a fairly well known issue when dealing with outline fonts. Nike, it has to be said I pretty crap and uninspiring in their Rugby Shirts design.