Ireland vs Australia - Discussion Thread

[MMC]

First topic message reminder :

Ireland:
1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donncha O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Eoin Reddan
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Keith Earls
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Brian O'Driscoll (c)
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

Replacements:
16. Jerry Flannery
17. Tom Court
18. Donnacha Ryan
19. Denis Leamy
20. Conor Murray
21. Ronan O'Gara
22. Andrew Trimble


Australia:
15. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
14. James O’Connor (Western Force)
13. Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds)
12. Pat McCabe (Brumbies)
11. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Brumbies)
10. Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
8. Radike Samo (Queensland Reds)
7. David Pocock (Western Force)
6. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies)
5. James Horwill (Queensland Reds, captain)
4. Dan Vickerman (NSW Waratahs)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
1. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:
16. Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)
17. James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
18. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
19. Ben McCalman (Western Force)
20. Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)
21. Luke Burgess (NSW Waratahs)
22. Drew Mitchell (NSW Waratahs)

COME ON IRELAND!!

littlejohn's thread about how we can beat the Wallabies:

Would like to hear other people's views on what ireland need to do to have a chance of beating Australia this Saturday. Here are some of my naive thoughts on what needs to happen:

1. Ireland to play with same agression when they played England earlier this year. While ireland have not really performed since then, I'm quietly confident they'll be fired up for this game!

2. Steal some of Italy's tactics for the game. Italy did really well in the first half vs Oz by kicking very well timed up and unders (generally aimed at AAC), and they were very well organised in defence, which resulted in frustration creeping in for the Wallabies. If they had a decent 10 this might have been a lot closer!

3. Start with ROG - His tactical kicking and ability to vary it is in my opinion a better fit for this kind of game. We can always bring Sexton on later if we need to change tactics. I think he's also marginally better at kicking penalty and conversions.

4. Whereever Cooper is standing in defence run at him (ideally using O'Brien/Ferris) - Pretty obvious one this, although he does often stand deep covering full back off lineouts, etc.

5. Play Australia at their own game - Australia have been very good at putting pressure on rucks, but Ireland will need to do the same when Australia have the ball, slowing it down where possible to stop Genia getting into gear.

6. Leverage Bowe and Kearney's height - Cross field kicks (timed well) could reap rewards for us. Rog is excellent at this.

All in all I accept this will be a tall order, but Ireland play the underdog tag better than anyone! I'm praying it won't be yet another herioc defeat. Bring on Saturday!

[Boyne]

Beating a defender means getting past an opposition player or an opp. player not being able to make a tackle on you. For any number of reasons the move might break down, such as no support, passing it to someone else and they drop the ball, knock it on etc.

Yes but you could be running sideways or backwards when you beat the defender.

You can also be effective in attack without beating defenders. For instance you may just be adept at finding gaps and running into space or you could be taking the contact and taking defenders out of the game.

Metres gained stats are deceptive too because the back 3 will likely pick up a lot of metres but they are likely to be behind the gainline.

Tackling stats can be as much a reflection as to the oposition a tactics and level of possession as anything else.

Well, if stats are so misinformative, why do they bother producing them. Why do you hear the players saying occasionally my stats are 'good' or something like that.

Sean O'Brien was selected as the best player in Europe and his stats also seemed to be the best set of stats as well. Is that just a coincidence?

Do you honestly believe Leamy was the 7th best forward in the HCup that year.
I, for one, do not.

PETE!!! FFS!!! Dont provoke it. It will awaken and send us off with his endless, meaningless stats to prove that he's not a Munster Fan!

[rodders]

Pete no!!!! Don't wake the sleeping dog!!!!

[GunsGerms]

Anyone know if there are any match preview shows tonight? I think the guinness pub preview show is on tv3 tomorrow. Anyone know when the breakdown is on setanta with franno and Matt. RTE have anything?

Recommend you listen to Thornley and co. On off the ball on Newstalk tonight.

[D24tress]

A tin of lovely home-made biscuits coming your way MrsP...

Lets hope they arent the home made "biscuits" my mate from Biron Bay makes when he comes over!!

Hold on. Actually, lets hope they are!

We will all be

[Sin é]

The residency thing becomes a sticky wicket when you throw citizenship in there, for Ireland anyway. Considering some of our players don’t hold an Irish passport or citizenship as it is. I agree the residency rule should be extended to 5 years though.

They are all born on the island of Ireland though, so its not an issue for them. I wonder how Isaac Boss's proved that he was eligible to play for Ireland as his granny came from one of the NI counties? Tom Court's grandparents were from the republic.

More than likely players from NZ/SA would not have an issue with who supplied them with their passport so that they qualified to play for Ireland.

[D24tress]

It doesn't matter sin if Ian paisley wanted an irish passport he could have one its the same with descendants once they were born on the island

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Val, interesting to see if Sherry and Strauss make the 6 Nations extended training squad. That must be a realistic expectation.

You will have to wait for the AIs for Strauss, He won't qualify until October. Then we will get to see if he can make the step up to intl Rugby and become the 1st cap by residency.

That off topic enough for yah?

[Kingshu]

The residency thing becomes a sticky wicket when you throw citizenship in there, for Ireland anyway. Considering some of our players don’t hold an Irish passport or citizenship as it is. I agree the residency rule should be extended to 5 years though.

They are all born on the island of Ireland though, so its not an issue for them. I wonder how Isaac Boss's proved that he was eligible to play for Ireland as his granny came from one of the NI counties? Tom Court's grandparents were from the republic.

More than likely players from NZ/SA would not have an issue with who supplied them with their passport so that they qualified to play for Ireland.

why would a granny from one of the occupied 6 counties not allow him to play for Ireland?

[red_stag]

JenMcL,



doesn't he qualify in about a months time. Why will we need to wait for AIs?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

JenMcL,



doesn't he qualify in about a months time. Why will we need to wait for AIs?

I seem to be correcting people a lot on this one. He really has only been with Leinster for 1 season. He arrived in Oct 09 and hardly played a game that season. Only when Jackman and Fogarty retired was he thrust into the breach. But still people seem to think he has been there 3 years.

OCTOBER 2012.

Edit: Just looked up his stats. 1 start! in the whole season 09/10. 5 off the bench. All Magners league.

10/11 season: 8 fecken Bjillion starts in all comps.

[rodders]

I wonder how Isaac Boss's proved that he was eligible to play for Ireland as his granny came from one of the NI counties?

You've just answered your own question.

[Cymroglan]

Flannery calf injury in training more get injured in training these days.

[Sin é]

The residency thing becomes a sticky wicket when you throw citizenship in there, for Ireland anyway. Considering some of our players don’t hold an Irish passport or citizenship as it is. I agree the residency rule should be extended to 5 years though.

They are all born on the island of Ireland though, so its not an issue for them. I wonder how Isaac Boss's proved that he was eligible to play for Ireland as his granny came from one of the NI counties? Tom Court's grandparents were from the republic.

More than likely players from NZ/SA would not have an issue with who supplied them with their passport so that they qualified to play for Ireland.

why would a granny from one of the occupied 6 counties not allow him to play for Ireland?

He is qualified. Its how he goes about proving it is what I'm getting at. Does he roll up to the IRB with his granny's birth cert which says he is born in a place in NI so eligible for Ireland or does he use a UK passport which won't say where his granny is from in the UK.
He would of course be eligible for an Irish passport, but he might be politically opposed to doing that (maybe his grandad was big mates with Dr Ian and he promised him he would not sell his soul to the southern paddies ).

[Submachine]

I'd love to see Strauss take his Leinster form on for Ireland. So what if he wansn't born here. He has committed to life here and WANTS to play for Ireland over SA. If he's good enough and it's within the rules then fair play.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Strauss-determined-to-leave-SA-20110201

Little extract from the above:

"If it goes well and I get to play for Ireland, I will consider it a big honour and privilege. I will grab the opportunity and do my best to stay in the team in such an event,” said Strauss.

[shantara]

why would a granny from one of the occupied 6 counties not allow him to play for Ireland?

I thought that all the counties of Ireland were occupied. If not, who's living in all those bungalows?

[OzT]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

[asoreleftshoulder]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

[Sin é]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Playing 7s for Oz ruled him out of ever qualifying for Ireland. Pity.

But I suppose, we'd have been suspicious of his motives as well if he ended up playing for Ireland even though he has married an Irish girl and has an Irish child now.

[MMC]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

OK, but when does Mafi qualify so?

[asoreleftshoulder]

It depends,how many Munster women has he impregnated so far?

[Sin é]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

OK, but when does Mafi qualify so?

Yea, when is Mafi eligible. He didn't play 7s for Oz

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Played 7s for Australia, and he's gone to Stade Francais now. Not that that would have disqualified him. Look at Mickey Flutey (Sorry Ricky but the other is funnier in Ireland as both Mickey and Flute are......never mind)

Paddy Wallace may never have gotten many caps if he had qualified.

[MMC]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

OK, but when does Mafi qualify so?

Yea, when is Mafi eligible. He didn't play 7s for Oz

That's a fact. FACT.

[dublin_dave]

Kingshu = Prince Phillip

Phillip old boy - The problem with the native southern paddy is that he is just so argumentitive and headstrong and is typically a twinky eyed f*cker with a pig under his arm. A good protestent grandmother may not want her dear old grandson playing for them.

Sin E is like Statto from Fantasy Football ages ago. Id say the fella knows his way around an excel spreadsheet

[Thomond]

Warwcik has Irish citizenship I'm told. Nice to see some friendly non provincial bashing banter.


Boyne,there are indeed some lovely ladies on Home and Away. Particularly your one Nicole. It's an awful show though. Too much drama!

[MrsP]

A tin of lovely home-made biscuits coming your way MrsP...

Lets hope they arent the home made "biscuits" my mate from Biron Bay makes when he comes over!!

Hold on. Actually, lets hope they are!

We will all be

Excuse me!

I think you'll find he is sending ME the lovely home-made biscuits!

[Cymroglan]

Crumbs

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

OK, but when does Mafi qualify so?

Yea, when is Mafi eligible. He didn't play 7s for Oz

I take it he never played for Tonga? He's not too old to get 3 years in England!

[Sin é]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Played 7s for Australia, and he's gone to Stade Francais now. Not that that would have disqualified him. Look at Mickey Flutey (Sorry Ricky but the other is funnier in Ireland as both Mickey and Flute are......never mind)

Paddy Wallace may never have gotten many caps if he had qualified.

If he was Ireland qualified, he'd still be playing in Ireland.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Played 7s for Australia, and he's gone to Stade Francais now. Not that that would have disqualified him. Look at Mickey Flutey (Sorry Ricky but the other is funnier in Ireland as both Mickey and Flute are......never mind)

Paddy Wallace may never have gotten many caps if he had qualified.

If he was Ireland qualified, he'd still be playing in Ireland.

Too true.

[Sin é]

He played Sevens for Oz so he could never qualify.

OK, but when does Mafi qualify so?

Yea, when is Mafi eligible. He didn't play 7s for Oz

I take it he never played for Tonga? He's not too old to get 3 years in England!

Unfortunately for him, he has played 7s for New Zealand. He would have got a few caps for Tonga if not.

[MrsP]

Crumbs

If there was a question mark at the end.....maybe!

[The Great Aukster]

Allegedly Boss's granny is as shinner as they come - she once had to lay down the law to Gerry Adams with a Larnein stick as he was going soft on principle.

What I'd like to know is if the crowd sings "the fields" on Saturday, which team will feel the most uplifted? After all Michael went to Botany Bay and probably is a great grandfather of some of the Oz team.
Actually thinking of that particular ballad, even though it is claimed by Munster as their anthem, statistically Athenry is 100% in Connacht. It seems there are lies, damned lies and low lies (the fields). Shame sentiment is always blown away by stats?

BTW I don't like the project player concept either, but it might just be a carrot for some uncapped players to come and stay in countries like Ireland - anything to increase the pool (or should that be the gene pool?).

[eirebilly]

Did i hear correctly that Jerry Flannery is out for the rest of the RWC?

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

Did i hear correctly that Jerry Flannery is out for the rest of the RWC?

Yup. Varley is packing as we speak.

[rodders]

why would a granny from one of the occupied 6 counties not allow him to play for Ireland?

I thought that all the counties of Ireland were occupied. If not, who's living in all those bungalows?

Sin I don't understand your question. If Boss proves that his Grandmother was born in antrim he's Irish Qualified, presumably via a birth certificate, it doesn't matter what passport he has. Having an Irish passport is not a prequisite to represent Ireland at rugby.

[Gatts]

I think ireland's performance against USA was strangely reticent, BOD almost seemed to be avoiding involvement such was his lack fo influence. Clearly there are serious issues in the Irish game, the usa game whilst significant to the tourney means nothing compared to the 4 recent losses and Ireland seem to have stalled, dare i say it, started to go backwards.

I think Aus will beat ire but the men in green will raise their game several notches in their resistance which might put them back where they belong when they need to be firing against Italy and then SA.

[valjester]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Played 7s for Australia, and he's gone to Stade Francais now. Not that that would have disqualified him. Look at Mickey Flutey (Sorry Ricky but the other is funnier in Ireland as both Mickey and Flute are......never mind)

Paddy Wallace may never have gotten many caps if he had qualified.

If he was Ireland qualified, he'd still be playing in Ireland.

Too true.

Not necessarily the main reason warwick moved was to do with better health care in france.

[mrsuperclear]

What has happened to Warwick?? Is he too old now to be considered for Ireland? sure he must be qualified by now, or does the fact he has played for Oz, I think only in a minor side, stops him being selected?

Played 7s for Australia, and he's gone to Stade Francais now. Not that that would have disqualified him. Look at Mickey Flutey (Sorry Ricky but the other is funnier in Ireland as both Mickey and Flute are......never mind)

Paddy Wallace may never have gotten many caps if he had qualified.

If he was Ireland qualified, he'd still be playing in Ireland.

Too true.

Not necessarily the main reason warwick moved was to do with better health care in france.

The main reason he moved was Stade offered him a two year contract, Munster offered him one.

[Gibson]

The team and 22 - is picked. Nothing can change it now. Barring injury. And I'm sure 99.99% of us (can I have a Sin Stats check on that please Sharon?) - don't want that. No matter what our bias is. Picking Sexton, Reddan and Earls, is a clear intent for us to take on Oz at their own game. That's beyond brave. And for that, I'm proud. Well done Deccie for having the cajones to do it. People can argue individual cases till the cows come home..... Well my answer to that is Mooooooo! The die is cast.

We are one country on Saturday morn. Now, lets get behind the 22 our Coaching team has picked to do a job.
Get in their faces lads. Give em phookall. Chase everything. Hit everything Aussie that moves - hard. Assume individual responsibility for each and every one of your respective positions. Beat your man. Be better than him. Take every sniff of a chance we get. Do that, as a unit... and we will beat them.

Believe!

[Pot Hale]

The Ireland management team brought in a team of young specialists to devise an Irish haka to face the Australians. The results are pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ycVVKBLC1sQ

[mutememories]

Anybody else getting strangely (and completely illogically) confident? I'm calling it now; Quade Cooper will be snapped in half in the first minute by a Ferris/O' Brien double team. They will then proceed to feast on his organs (In a strictly metaphorical sense of course. I'm definitely not advocating cannibalism. Well, maybe I am a little...). This will then act as the catalyst for a game of outrageous intensity from Ireland, with BOD, Bowe, and Sexton dotting down to ultimately seal the win. You heard it here first.


First post on this lads, used to be on the old BBC 606, under a different username, but hadn't used it in about a year and a half. Good to see some of the old names still about.

[Goosestepper]

You all know whats ipods and Irish grannies have in common right.....?




.....Every fecker has one!


The Irish team have to be confident that they can beat this Australia side - cliche I know, but look what Wales almost did to South Africa. All it took was one young whipper snapper to front up and he carried the team (still wasn't enough though)

People talk of game plans on here (lack of, that its wrong etc.). Screw the bloody game plan, our guys need to throw the ball around attempt a few ludicrous moves and take some risks they wouldn't normally - This is how the Reds beat the Crusaders and to a lesser extent the Wallabies won the tri nations.................

And before anyone says anything - I'm going to be in a boozer in Eastern Sydney - Ossie Rugby heartland - the last thing I want to hear from some sanctimonious bloddy Ocker is " good performance by a plucky Irish side that just fell short blah blah blah!!!


Apologies for poor grammar and spelling mistakes - sent from my split personality

Rant over

[Standulstermen]

I love the optimism but i cant indulge sadly. Oz by a fairly comfortable 10-12 points.

Anything can happen on any given day but reason dictates that at least one of us be pessimistic.

Best of luck lads. I hope you prove this miserable bollix wrong

[Gatts]

Any other team off the back of 4 losses and a hugely unconvincing win against USA and i would say forget it, Aus by a comfortable margin. But ireland have the dog, and the bollix, to upset the Aussies as long as they blow the Aus forwards away, just don't think the back line is up to it

[boomeranga]

No suprises in the oz team:

15. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
14. James O’Connor (Western Force)
13. Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds)
12. Pat McCabe (Brumbies)
11. Adam Ashley-Cooper (Brumbies)
10. Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
8. Radike Samo (Queensland Reds)
7. David Pocock (Western Force)
6. Rocky Elsom (Brumbies)
5. James Horwill (Queensland Reds, captain)
4. Dan Vickerman (NSW Waratahs)
3. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
2. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
1. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves:
16. Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)
17. James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
18. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
19. Ben McCalman (Western Force)
20. Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)
21. Luke Burgess (NSW Waratahs)
22. Drew Mitchell (NSW Waratahs)
----------------------------

[Goosestepper]

The Aus centers are big bash-bosh up the middle types of players not known for their step or dynamic defence - In days gone by Ireland would have really exploited that. Are we going to see Bod and Darc back to their Fred Astaire best - thats the optimist in me!

More importantly (heres the pessimst) will BODs shoulder cope with the big hits that are coming his way. Lets assume the Aus pack will provide quick ball and that Genia and Copper will distribute this quickly and effectively - If our 12/13 can't get McCabe and Fainga'a to the deck and stop the quick offload without commiting more than 1:1 the Aus back 3 will kill us.

Also IMO if either team gets on the wrong side of the ref early on its going to really influence their game - any comments on Bryce Lawrence and the likely impact hes going to have on this game, I'm thinking scrums and rucks (needless to say these days). Would be interested in peoples views on how teams are exploiting and falling foul of this

[boomeranga]

Yeah, with your 12/13 not in great form, and the two we've picked being more straight up and down players, you wouldn't expect a lot of magic to be shown in midfield. Ours are pretty honest, low error types which we probably have needed, but it will be the halves and the wider guys who will need to do the damage if it is to happen for us. For you guys, there is a definite wariness around here of BOD. Even if he's been out of form.

I don't know much about Lawrence to comment GS. The back row battle has looked to me like the key to the game ever since it was announced, and still does. Bryce's influence on that will be big, particulary with only one real fetcher on the field.

[Goosestepper]

Hi Boom - Watch out for Sean O'Brien (7 although usually a 6) and Ferris (6). If these guys get good go forward ball they're pretty great to watch in the loose SOB for his carries and Ferris for his big hits - neither are well known down here.

Pack wise its even IMO, apart from Pocock, we don't have an out and out 7 to put up against him, which is a worry as he is the best stealer in the game at the mo

Sadly can't see BOD being a big factor in this one - in fact a lot of people reckon he (and particularly his partner in the center) might be a liability.

I think I may have to find a quiet corner of the pub to watch this one

[boomeranga]

Yeah, I've had the chance to see Ferris a few times, and have been really impressed. It'll be the first time with SOB though, so looking forward to watching him go. He's a big lump of a lad by the looks.

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