A case of karma before the storm?

So then, Trump finally finds himself potentially on the receiving end, so to speak ...

http://news.scotsman.com/aberdeen/Donald-Trump-takes-a-swing.6836555.jp

Unfortunately, the karma bit could be short-lived because I seem to recall Trump threatening to withdraw his act of vandalism because of plans to build a wind farm off (another part of?) the Aberdeen coastline. Now, I don't exactly know what transpired or how the issue to not proceed with the original wind farm off the Aberdeen coast was resolved but, presumably, Trump must have been given assurances it wasn't going to go ahead or he wouldn't have proceeded with his act of vandalism?

I can certainly see his point. I wouldn't want to see to those ugly things pollute my view and pay mega bucks for a house in a gated community not to mention £200 for a round of golf for the privilege.

If indeed he had been given assurances that no wind farm would be built within 'eye polluting' range, surely he will sue ... either Abderdeenshire Council, Scotland or both! When all said and done, the course is now built and he has already spent millions on it so there's no going back.

I guess it will all come out in the small print. Donald, dear, you did get it in writing ... didn't you?

I assume they want to sell a lot of over priced balls in the pro shop given the height of the rough on the dunes and their proximity to the playing area.

The guy is unreal, how can he think he has any say over the building of a wind farm?

A wind farm that will bring a lot more to the local economy than his act of vandalism (as it should now always be known as). Aberdeen became the world leading centre for off shore oil/gas technology so it should have the chance to do the same with off shore wind. That will bring more to aberdeen and the uk than one golf course ever could so trump may want to consider how small his act of vandalism is in comparison.

Your right in saying that he should have no right over the wind farm but to call his course vandalism I disagree with. Im from the area and feel his new world class course is going to bring a lot to the city.

Sand:

Well said sir. I agree the wind farm should remain seperate from DT's project, but the course itself will bring a lot to that area especially in terms of people frequenting the area and paying out some of their hard earned pennies

I can see a picture in my mind of Gael chained to the entrance gates of Trump city scotland.

The tower blocks in Aberdeen are more of an eyesore than the proposed windfarm.

I agree, the course certainly isn't vandalism. It was a bleak, dreary inhospitable place before. At least it has a purpose now.

dynamark wrote:I can see a picture in my mind of Gael chained to the entrance gates of Trump city scotland.

Mac will be there with a copy of Doak with a demand to be allowed to play for £10.

I think Scotland has to learn that what tourism, the industry trump will contribute to, is hardly in the same league as energy production and technology. So let’s hope the decisions made realise what will prove to be more prosperous.

S_R

Given that trump seems to have over ruled his architect at various points there will probably be some really bad holes, and therefore a low doak rating.

Yes Mac, keep the tinfoil hat on. I'm sure Trump will ruin the opportunity to make one of the worlds best courses by designing his own holes

Mac, renewable energy is very much a white elephant on the scale we do it, but seeing as you question it, it's not a case of one or the other. There's no reason why we can't have both. A world class course and renewable energy to keep the lily livered happy

Who gives a flaying rats ass what the DOAK level is. there are plenty of good course out there that have a cr@p doak rating and this could well be another one of them

Just because one fool thinks he is the be all and end all of golf course architecture doesn't mean he is.....

S_R

Whether you think off shore is a whit elephant or not is irrelevant as long as it is used as a political tool for showing you get the green thing. Nations will be increasingly being off shore regardless of whether the raw economics stack up, the political economics certainly do at this stage.

So lets hope Aberdeen are part of the rush to build off shore wind farms. Now that Germany has pulled out of Nuclear the prices in emissions trading markets in 10-15 years could do anything as Germany needs to buy a whole load of permits for coal and gas powered stations. So who knows wind my still have its place?



And yes trump has gone against the advice of his architect on a number of occasions on both routing and individual hole design. Was it not the 14th we discussed on here where he wanted it to be the hardest hole in the world. He chose to design it himself with two forced carries of around 200 yards.

Sand wrote:Your right in saying that he should have no right over the wind farm but to call his course vandalism I disagree with. Im from the area and feel his new world class course is going to bring a lot to the city.

Sand ... the act of vandalism pertains to the course being built on a mobile sand dune, part of which has now been stabilised by the course. It was - is - an SSSI - not that that means anything anymore these days, it would seem. I'm given to understand it is quite a rare phenomenon ... rare enough, I would have thought, to have warranted full protection from narcissistic, grubby, greedy little men like Trump.

I for one would be more than happy to see Mr Trump up sticks and move his course and Hotel to some of the great links land that is available around the North Cornish Coast. Another great track to go alongside those already here at St Enodoc and Trevose would greatly enhance the golfers options that we have down here and would go along way to making it another golfers short weekend destination. Any money and substantial investment as this coming into a local economy should not be sniffed at in these harsh economic times.

Oh dear Mac, forced carries again, and two on one course. How disgraceful
How do you know he's gone against the advice of his architect. Course designers are always subject to the whims of the developer. It's called discussion. Every course ever designed has probaly had input from the developer. It doesn't mean he's over-ruling it. They did a lot of that whilst designing The Castle.

There was a video, might even have been on his own, site which showed him changing what the architect had spent a long time thinking about without even a moments thought from himself.

If he wants hotel guest to provide repeat business he might want to consider how much fun they have on the course. Loosing a ball after failing to get over a forced carry is hardly what the punters want.

He should maybe have looked a Bandon as an example of how to get people coming back to a remote resort.

matelot golfer wrote:I for one would be more than happy to see Mr Trump up sticks and move his course and Hotel to some of the great links land that is available around the North Cornish Coast. Another great track to go alongside those already here at St Enodoc and Trevose would greatly enhance the golfers options that we have down here and would go along way to making it another golfers short weekend destination. Any money and substantial investment as this coming into a local economy should not be sniffed at in these harsh economic times.

Hi mate, I am a member of Launceston and also Looe. Where do you play?

I think the wind energy decisions were made long ago in reality.Siemens have govt contracts for many years to come for the generators and I happened to visit a company recently who had ships doing ocean survey work all over the world.One of the printers was spewing out plans of the north sea which I was informed was for a proposed windfarm to produce 10% of our energy.That is a lot of windmills.

dynamark wrote:I can see a picture in my mind of Gael chained to the entrance gates of Trump city scotland.

It'll be years before this estate even begins to get built ... if at all. As Trump himself said ... "where's the market?".

No, my objection is twofold: his bullying tactics towards local homeowners and vandalising an SSSI.

West Cornwall area, Mullion etc.. although do tend to play all over the county and often up at Dartmouth and China Fleet.

matelot golfer wrote:West Cornwall area, Mullion etc.. although do tend to play all over the county and often up at Dartmouth and China Fleet.

Got a lesson with Dom at China fleet tonight after work, never been there

Never layed any of the west Cornwall courses but I used to live in Camborne when I first moved down from Bonnie Scotland so I know the area

So there was a video was there Mac. How do you know Trump hadn't thought long and hard about it and do you actually know if the changes were implemented? It's pure conjecture.
There's enough forced carries (according to your definition of a forced carry)on your beloved Old Course isn't there, yet you still enjoy it.
Besides, getting over such obstacles is part of the challenge. If you had 18 easy shots into every course what would be the point? Would it be much fun.

You don't even know how any changes (if there have been any) will affect the course, not everyone looks at course from Doak point of view or goes in a huff about forced carries, just you and Doak judging by this site. So he's lost 2 potential customers. Wow.
Changes can be made to courses. They aren't built out of concrete. If something isn't working it can be changed, just as every course in the world is over time.
It's not even that remote as there are at least 20 courses within half an hours drive.
For heavens sake.

No, my objection is twofold: his bullying tactics towards local homeowners and vandalising an SSSI.

I really do not see how anyone can disagree with that statement? We should all have an objection on both counts.

dynamark wrote:I think the wind energy decisions were made long ago in reality.Siemens have govt contracts for many years to come for the generators and I happened to visit a company recently who had ships doing ocean survey work all over the world.One of the printers was spewing out plans of the north sea which I was informed was for a proposed windfarm to produce 10% of our energy.That is a lot of windmills.

Dyna ... presumably Trump must've known that off-shore wind farms were an inevitability on an island nation and yet he still went ahead? Trump doesn't strike me as being the type of individual who would commit to a project based on trust alone.

If someone offered me a fortune for a toilet of a house I would take it, as for the site being an SSSI, so what, there's mile upon mile of that up there.
He's not bulldozing it all down, it will look virtually the same unless you are on the course.

S_R ... this mobile dune may yet have the final word. Just sayin'.

Trump waved his Dollars, and Government (Salmond) and local council danced to his tune, and locals were just railroad out of the way, now to call his course world class, I suppose it is a world class eyesore on a beautiful part of the country.

Funny how hundreds of house's and miles upons mile of kent coastline and in land was dug up to put through a channel tunnel rail link, yet no one really complained as they got good value for their homes and it was seen as beneficial to allow this rail link yet DT builds a golf course and everyone jumps on the band wagon.

As for slating the course before it's even completed what a load of rubbish, you cannot judge something that is under construction judgement should be reserved for until the course is finished and has been played....

Gael, you don't understand psammoseres do you? They are all mobile until the vegetation becomes mature enough, whereupon that area becomes stable. Whether this is natural or artifically done is irrelevant. Once there is a golf course on it, those parts that are vegetated are no longer motile.
Trumps course will not be engulfed by a marauding mobile dune.

You just need to look at St.Andrews for that. The non golf course areas change year on year, the golf courses hardly change at all.

Mav

The rail link was for the benefit of the country and has been well proved, but to compare the channel tunnel with a golf complex is just plain stupid

OP, does it matter, both local areas will benefit from the developments of Golf Course and Tunnel.
It's just a few beligerant locals inconvenienced for the benefit of the local area. That's the same in every development.

OP your missing my point.. In that both are for tourist investment and that people are using the fact they Dislike trump as their reasons stating he doesnt' care about people affected.

As for the rail link can you prove that because it's still running into millions pouinds of losses hardly a benefit

Sorry but am I missing something here, you are saying that the Trump golf complex, is just as important to the Britain as the channel tunnel, WOW that is thinking outside the box, to much for my little brain

Of course no one is saying that OP, but to suggest it will be of no benefit to the local economy is bunkum. Why else would the government allow it?

oldparwin wrote:Trump waved his Dollars, and Government (Salmond) and local council danced to his tune, and locals were just railroad out of the way, now to call his course world class, I suppose it is a world class eyesore on a beautiful part of the country.

Your speaking like all the locals didnt want the course? The majority did as they could see the progress or benefit to the city. Its like the bypass thats been accepted for Aberdeen but has not been started yet. Everyone seems to want it, as traffic in the city centre can be horrendous at times, yet a very small action group continually appeal and have now appealed yet again but want their costs dramatically reduced and for the tax payers to pay for it. Putting an additional delay on the project. Heres hoping court rules against them again in december.

Im probably biased but feel the city is nice place to live but wish some people would stop living behind the times and accept that change sometimes can actually be for the good of the city, especially if the Oil and gas is to run out sometime in the near ish future which is predicted.

Thats not to say I dont see the arguments for some of the negatives regarding the trump course, I do, just feel that the benefits are much more.

Super
We will never know what went on between Salmond and Trump, but lets just say that money talks

No OP you are clearly missing the point much like the other day with the playing with mates thread..

My point in simplest terms (please don't think i'm calling you simple as i'm not) but if the government deem it right for tourism whether that be a rail link or a hotel then everyone simply accepts it.

But trump who has reputation for being a ruthless businessman whose course will add value to tourism in the Aberdeen region but is castigated by all for being a vandall and a bully for doing so.

But then maybe I should shut up and stay out of it as im not scottish and want to play his course

OP, so you are saying Soapy Salmond took a backhander?
You still haven't convinced me that there won't be a benefit to the local economy?

I can book a time now if I like for next year, i'm not forced to spend any other monies in a Trump establishment, but I will need to spend money on fuel, food, accomodation, etc.

Mav, I'll happily go up there mid week and spend £160 on a round with you, if only we can take rotten fruit to throw at Mac, Gael and OP chained to the gate as we go past.

tarka

How was your trip to Lytham (or was it Birkdale)? Never played any of those courses, big ommission from my golfing CV that I'm keen to put right.

Mav

I have a different perspective on things, you have taken the veiw that everyone is a golfer, so with the trump complex, everyone is a winner, I take the veiw that there is more to life than just golf, and with this complex and where he built it, there are more looser's than winners.

I do not take offence when someone does not agree with me, in fact the reason I am on this forum, is to air my views, and would not expect everyone to agree with me, so by not agreeing with me, I can assure you does not offend me

There is a difference between a project going through the normal planning and economic evaluation stages and what Trump did for his course. If anyone else behaved in such a manner I would hold the same opinions as I do about the project.

I can assure you there will have been many projects with a better economic impact than trumps that never got of the ground because they adhered to normal planning laws.

Super

I think you should read the SSSI's and the evidence which showed that they were in fact very rare and not as common as you are suggesting.

The facts are that there are far better places to put a wind farm rather than beside the main bay area of Aberdeen beach, also the things will be off more than there on due to the high winds. build the F'ing thing further out to sea !! Or use tidal inititives !!

Im more likely to play there than ST Andrews as it will be a test of golf rather than a pitch & putt !!

super_realist wrote:Mav, I'll happily go up there mid week and spend £160 on a round with you, if only we can take rotten fruit to throw at Mac, Gael and OP chained to the gate as we go past.

Sounds good to me, I'll start collecting the fruit now should have gone off nicely by time we get to play

Super

Lets wait and see what Soapy Salmond does over the wind farm, I think that might just answer your question

drive4show wrote:tarka

How was your trip to Lytham (or was it Birkdale)? Never played any of those courses, big ommission from my golfing CV that I'm keen to put right.

It was lytham

Haven't mentioned it to anyone as I was an absolute disgrace, couldn't hit the ball at all hardly and I had a good session with a pro the day before, came last with 14 pts, mortified. The course was really good, felt the history in the clubhouse and stayed at a brilliant hotel in st Annes, the grand



don't know if you can see the pic of me on the first tee

OP

I have not taken the view everyone is a golfer, but we are discussing a golf course are we not...... Or have I missed that point.

So therefore my comments are aimed at the fact Trumps complex will add value to the area from the point that it will bring more golfers into the area on breaks that are adding to the local economy, buying fule from local garages. Spending money in local eateries, and shops etc. You can pretty much guarantee it will also attract a lot of corporates their for events and functions in the hotel complex. Again these all spending more money. Then there is the number of jobs available in servicing his complex again to the benefit of the locals.

So to say there are more losers than winners seems a rather odd statement. Or rather than the jobs he could create with this should be just be thankful for those Aberdonians collecting a giro and drinkng a bottle of buckie

No, pic isn't showing, maybe one of the mods can help you post it? Would be good to see it

Commiserations on a poor day, still great to play those big courses though.

Mav

Can you please point me to the economic report which states that trumps project is likely to be either a benefit to the local or national economy?

The main Buckie area is my old part of the country Coatbridge at a recent visit to Buckfast Abbey, one of the monks almost confirmed that they shipped more to that area than any other

Me personally cant stand it.

McLaren wrote:Mav

Can you please point me to the economic report which states that trumps project is likely to be either a benefit to the local or national economy?

and would you care to show us the economic report that shows it won't............

thought not.... Just having a go at trump seems more your sort of thing aye Mac

Mav

I do not really need to prove the status quo scenario do i. But either way I think you should stop throwing around claims of great economic benefit without having any facts at hand.

If such a report exists it may well prove me wrong, so please I ask again where you are getting your evidence?

I seem to remember old LJ had similar issues with assuming his opinion was proven to be factual.