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A case of karma before the storm?

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Post by gaelgowfer Thu 15 Sep 2011, 10:17 am

First topic message reminder :

So then, Trump finally finds himself potentially on the receiving end, so to speak ...

http://news.scotsman.com/aberdeen/Donald-Trump-takes-a-swing.6836555.jp

Unfortunately, the karma bit could be short-lived because I seem to recall Trump threatening to withdraw his act of vandalism because of plans to build a wind farm off (another part of?) the Aberdeen coastline. Now, I don't exactly know what transpired or how the issue to not proceed with the original wind farm off the Aberdeen coast was resolved but, presumably, Trump must have been given assurances it wasn't going to go ahead or he wouldn't have proceeded with his act of vandalism?

I can certainly see his point. I wouldn't want to see to those ugly things pollute my view and pay mega bucks for a house in a gated community not to mention £200 for a round of golf for the privilege.

If indeed he had been given assurances that no wind farm would be built within 'eye polluting' range, surely he will sue ... either Abderdeenshire Council, Scotland or both! When all said and done, the course is now built and he has already spent millions on it so there's no going back.

I guess it will all come out in the small print. Donald, dear, you did get it in writing ... didn't you?

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 11:50 am

Mac
The area from the middle of Gullane Bay to the 2nd hole at Muirfield used to be as flat as a pancake. The dunes on the NB side of the bay where huge and between them and the Gullane beach car park was like a desert wasteland.
You can understand the scale of the operation now.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm

super_realist wrote:What a surprise that it comes from SNH. A particularly tiresome organisation that are incredibly difficult to deal with.

Really?

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/machrihanish-dunes.html#cr



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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:12 pm

Like every organisation there is good and bad, but I've always found them to be spectacularly uninformed, and like SEPA there's a definite liberal agenda to their work.

Some of the restrictions they've tried to impose on coastal and flooding work I've been involved in borders on the ludicrous and frankly embarassing.

Typical public sector busybodies and jobsworths.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:15 pm

Doon the Water wrote:Gael
Really interesting post.

I would imagine Gullane sands would have been recognised as a shifting dune in the 1950's. There was an area of unvegitated shifting sand much larger than para2 of that report
Trouble was that most of the sand was shifting onto the bottom end of Muirfield.

I think it was SNC who stabalised the sand and built up the dunes much closer to the sea edge. This involved a lot of work and expense over many years.

The results 50 years later is quite splendid IMO and the finished area of approx 2 sq miles works well for species count and of course the many folk who use the beach. Footfall is well channeled onto the now normal looking crescent of the beach front. I would say that 90% of the area is unkept and looks natural.

Hadn't appreciated that Doon. Just goes to show that conservationists are not as inflexible as some on here would have us believe.

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Post by McLaren Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:20 pm

Super

whats with all the anit liberal comments and sugestions that people who wish to protect natural features only do so blindly through some liberal agenda?

Intended or not it comes of as if you think you are on a level above everyone else and do not need to worry about facts but on your own instinct. Which sadly as far as I can see is based on reading the daily mail or whatever the scottish equivelent is.
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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm

Of course Mac, you'd never use your own opinion as fact would you?

On certain issues I certainly do know more than most on here, on others I won't.
Have you ever dealt with SNH or SEPA? They are incredibly wishy washy and hand wringing on certain subjects.

Saying I read the Daily Mail is no different to my criticism of someone with liberal views.

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:08 pm

Guys.

I have sat on both sides of that fence and you are both right.

Far too many public sector workers tend to enforce extra conditions to justify their under worked existance.

Far to many ill informed members of the public have a go at public workers out of frustration due to their incompetance or that decisions are made that they do not agree with. The Elf & Saftey [conkers, school trips etc] myths are a good example if this.
I watched a young guy recently 30 ft up a tree with a chainsaw, no saftey equipment or clothing and he had clearly not done any kind of risk assesment.

Throughout my working life in the public sector I have had to swallow, safety and planning conditions that I disagreed with only to later find out that when the dust settled, I was wrong.

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Post by Lairdy Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:43 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:
Lairdy wrote:Trump received promises there would be no wind farm from the previous adminstration? A few spoken promises and letters wont really cut it surely. It really would be a case of karma if the windfarm plans 'bulldoze' through any of Trumps rejections. And I was pretty much for the course to begin with. There are processes to go through when building on SSSI and as long as they were followed then I suppose we cant complain too much. People get moved by compulsary purchase all the time so I worry less about them!

As much as I don't think wind turbines are there yet I dont see them as a big eyesore as many. I think they are quite an impressive site and a sign of mans motivation to improve but, unlike the installation, the innovation isnt quite there yet with turbines functionality. They tick a few political boxes and make a few folk rich but thats about it for now.

I think a bunch of rich Americans would actually be quite interested in the turbines anyway...

I would be interested to know your theory on exactly how Aberdeenshire Council (having overturned the sub-committee's recommendations not to build on the SSSI) justified this by allowing part of this rare mobile dune to be stabilised.

As for cpos, Trump has gone on record as stating he will not apply for them to remove the homeowners. Twould have been interesting though to see which way those councillors would have jumped had they been put on the spot for, had they approved them, I think this would have resulted in a precedent being set as it would have been the first time (in Scotland?/UK?) that folk had been thrown out of their homes to benefit a private developer.

Wee Eck is obsessed with renewable energy and he doesn't care if he destroys the tourist industry in the process. But, if it came to a choice between land or off-shore wind farms then I would prefer them to be off-shore on the basis that the wind is less likely to drop at sea than on the mainland. Does anyone remember last winter when it became so cold that Scotland was effectively becalmed for weeks. Nae wind ... nae power!

There is another problem. More pylons will be needed to serve the output from those wind farms which means yet more of the landscape will be blighted. Scotland has already kicked into touch running the cables underground on cost grounds. England is now faced with having to take a decision on this as well.

Innovation has become the norm in this high tech era. I don't think we would have had to have waited too long for alternative and more aesthetically pleasing alternatives to be created. For example, the development of wave power is evolving every day. Unfortunately for Scotland, wee Eck has an oversized ego to feed and sees himself as some kind of EU green energy messiah ...

http://www.sdi.co.uk/news/2011/05/scotland-to-become-the-green-energy-powerhouse-of-europe.aspx

... sacrificing on the altar of his own impatience, Scotland's beauty in the process.


You dont overturn recommendations you overlook them as much as anything. I'm sure Aberdeenshire Council had their reasons but I wasnt commenting on those. I was commenting on when building on a SSSI there would be processes to follow to minimise impact and it would be interesting to see what these were and if they were followed. Maybe there was none? Be suprised though.

In mentioning cpos I was merely trying to place the SSSI at a similar importance to the current landowners - not to say either was insignificant but you cant really relocate a SSSI. People relocate all the time. You've maybe read me wrong here. I'm not of the opinion that a mere SSSI should never stand in the way of a golf course but at the same time I am of the opinion that at the end of the day a SSSI is just a site of interest.

Mostly agree with you on Salmond, him especially, and current wind power. As well as wave there must be more Hydro potential surely? Is everyone too busy trying to reinvent the wheel to notice it? Thing is although Scotland is relatively small a few wind turbines and pylons still dont wreck the view of the entire country. Unfortunately its a sacrifice we have pay in this modern age. This country is bad enough at living in the past without moaning about this as well. The one pro for wind power is that all the kit could be taken down quite easily, unlike say a nuclear power plant. Just a shame the Japanese arent into wind power as I'm sure they would make the technology instantly better, like they always do, if they got involved.

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Post by JAS Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:45 pm

Mac/Super.....I'd love to referee a matchplay match between you 2!!

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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

Nice idea JAS but I'm not sure I could stand the shame of being seen with someone with hickory clubs and a yellow pinnacle.

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:17 pm

Nae chance Jaz

They would never agree on a course.

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Post by McLaren Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:21 pm

I would be very happy to take advantage of supers access to TOC.
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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

Wouldn't you rather play The Castle Mac?
You'd wet your pants about the considerate design on that course.

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Post by Lairdy Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:36 pm

Doon the Water wrote:Guys.

I have sat on both sides of that fence and you are both right.

Far too many public sector workers tend to enforce extra conditions to justify their under worked existance.

Throughout my working life in the public sector I have had to swallow, safety and planning conditions that I disagreed with only to later find out that when the dust settled, I was wrong.

Its how these extra conditions effect small businesses that gets my goat. I've seen it when a business will comply to everything written down in the guidelines yet still have to attend to additional requests that have been clearly made up on the spot. Just like private businesses have obligations to follow regulations (basically the law), public workers who enforce regulations should have some sort of moral obligation (at least) not to smoother these business owners with legislation. Mr and Mrs Legislation seems to forget that while their work is to protect the public it is also to assist and ultimately improve how the private sector operates. When times have been good in recent years this has been forgotten and unfortunately even after/during a recession I dont think it has been remembered.

Like we all know we need rules and we need enforcers, unfortunately we have to do the right thing in the correct way. Anyway, I'm probably only seeing this from my own little world and I've went off topic...

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:44 pm

SR
I read Kidds book about building the Castle [have you]. It was a good read and brought back a few memories for me.
Took a quick look at it a couple of weeks ago when I played it's neighbour and thought it looked very good.

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Post by McLaren Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:47 pm

Super

Not sure my mental health would survive if I played the castle, it is already hanging by a thread after only setting eyes on the place.
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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 2:49 pm

I haven't read it Doon, but I play it regularly, perhaps about 15 times in the last few years (including a 68 the last time) and it grows on me every time.

I hear a lot of people criticise it, but it's something different, provides a good challenge. Most of those who dislike it seem to be the ones who base the opinion on one visit, but I think if I were to show people where to put the ball they'd enjoy it more. Definitely a course for "the more accomplished" player if that doesn't sound too bad, but I'm glad that the Links Trust took a bit of a risk.
I know Mac (despite never playing it) and Gael don't like it but you can't please everyone.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 6:29 pm

Well, I didn't have to wait long for Trump's response. He's going "global"!

http://news.scotsman.com/environment/Donald-Trump-vows-global-legal.6837223.jp

"American courts"? Headscratch

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 7:00 pm

Well it is the land of the free, so long as you have the money.

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Post by oldparwin Fri 16 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

The next few months are going to fun, with allegation and counter allegation, between Trump and Salmond, it will be better than any of the soaps

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 7:57 pm

Notwithstanding jurisdiction issues, this saga is becoming more bizarre by the minute. According the following link ...

http://local.stv.tv/aberdeen/news/270460-trump-defends-windfarm-objection-i-am-fighting-for-the-benefit-of-scotland/

... and, if, I heard correctly, wee Eck is claiming no prior knowledge of the last time the issue of an off-shore wind farm was raised citing it was down to a previous administration. Eh? He wuz the previous administration! Not only that but it was all over the media as well.

Perhaps we ought to hand it to him. He did after all succeed in getting a golf course out of Trump! Still, it could all backfire horribly because, if Trump succeeds in his court case, we, could end up with the most expensive municipal golf course in the world!

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Post by Doon the Water Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:00 pm

Gael
You are on form with this one.

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:11 pm

Doon ... has Trump finally met his match as in someone who can out-bull**** him? Laugh <with tears streaming>

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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:11 pm

Always knew Salmond was a fud.
I'm not sure what Trumps objection in relation to the windfarm is. He's got something much worse in the shape of the that Forbes pikey who won't move out of the toilet of a house.

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Post by McLaren Fri 16 Sep 2011, 8:40 pm

Has trump no inadvertently built on a current(future) industrial site never mind a former industrial site?

Seems like he reads my posts.
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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 9:33 pm

Here's an interesting scenario, and one which has a realistic chance of being realised.

Let's say for example that the clubs of Mac, Gael and OP were offering a prize of a fourball for the winning team of a texas scramble.

If you won, would you play the course, or would you conscientiously object in disgust at the "vandalism" and "bullying"?

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Post by gaelgowfer Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:11 pm

Speaking for myself ... like ... I would just say ... Super ... that that is one o' dem no brainers which, come to think of it, is quite appropriate in your case!

Wink

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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:14 pm

Very poor Gael,but not entirely unpredictable.

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Post by oldparwin Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

Super

Think that Gael has just TRUMPED you this time Yahoo

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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

Hardly OP, It was a very predictable response from one of our more humourless and slow witted members.

I think though OP, that we've actually found a "real" girlfriend for Mac.

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Post by McLaren Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:46 pm

As long as she doesn't need a puncture repair kit.
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Post by super_realist Fri 16 Sep 2011, 10:48 pm

I think she may be a bit perished Mac, I get the impression she's been around a while. Run

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Post by JAS Fri 16 Sep 2011, 11:54 pm

super_realist wrote:I think she may be a bit perished Mac, I get the impression she's been around a while. Run

Ouch!! thats a bit harsh, even for you Super....I expect a scathing retort Gael!!

By the way Gael, I believe it was you who told me that Carnoustie had done away with the old halfway hut...well you'll be pleased to know the new one is now open (on the same site) and very nice it is too. I can also confirm that the meat pies are still as good Wink

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Post by gaelgowfer Sat 17 Sep 2011, 9:57 am

Been in it Jas. Had a day at 'the wumins' in July where OH treated himself to one o dem pies.

I'm a bit confused about your "same site" bit though. The last time I played Carnoustie (a long, long, long long long time ago) the original hut was sited beside the 11th tee. Perhaps it was moved to the position behind the 10th green before eventually being replaced by the new one?


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