Wales V Namibia - Team Thread Etc Etc

[bedfordwelsh]

First topic message reminder :

OK over the last round of matches we have seen both Englnad and Scotland have the chance to change good % of the team and have look at other players but because of the physiciality of our group we not had that chance and won't be able to against Fiji.

SO, and with no offence to the Namibians this game will be our only chance to rotte some of the players so here's what I would do and why if all fit

Jenkins (needs game time)
Burns
Mitchell
Davies
AWJ
R Jones
Powell
Warburton

Knoyle
Hook (not working at XV)

Brew
Davies
Sc Williams
North

Halfpenny


James,Owens,Charterris,Faletau, L Williams, S Jones Byrne

QUite few changes butt hat side should still be able to get the bp win we need

[Stellar Key]

[quote="Cymroglan"]None of the so called fringe players looked out of place. [/quote]

Yeah they looked fit, fast and confident , even Byrne did alright tonight.

[HERSH]

even Byrne did alright tonight.

At least he didn't kick anyone or take them out in the air!

[Knowsit17]

Despite the score line, I didn't think we played all that well. Take the Lloyd Williams try. Powell hesitated before throwing the pass. A top side would have punished him for that. In fact Powell hesitated quite a few times. All Scott Willams' tries came from boshing through weak tackles - impossible against first-class teams. As for the Stephen Jones pass that led to the Namibia try - Hook would have been crucified on this board if he had been intercepted so easily against poor quality opposition.

With that approach it's hard to say anything positive at all about any games against weaker sides. I agree we looked underwhelming at times but you can only beat what's in front of you and we put some glaring errors aside to rack up a convincing scoreline. That's how I see it first and foremost in this instance.

Anyway, we usually tend to up our level of play against better sides.

[Comfort]

I havent managed to watch the game yet. Gonna get around to it later.

Can someone give me some info on the following though:

1. How did Geths play? Alright by the sounds of it
2. Was Tavis any quicker than Phillips getting the ball away from the rucks?
3. How did Halfpenny/Brew go?
4. Was it more similar to the SA or Samoa performance? (bit difficult to tell against Namibia, but you usually get the air of confidence or shakiness from wales).
5. Did Bradley Davies get ball in hand much?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

What's with all the whining about thrashings? It's the nature of sport, you can't put it all on the line without the risk of humiliation. Besides, the gap between the giants and minnows is smaller now than it used to be.

Which is why they let another tier of whipping boys in.

The thing is the excuse " ah yeah but they had to play a midweek" is always trotted out, if the lowest tier of qualifiers werent in then the likes of Samoa and Scotland wouldnt get lumbered with a midweek and have a fairer chance of qualification.

The Z listers add nothing to the legitimacy of the tournament and now Ryan Jones is paying the price for it.

Maybe they should run a side show competition for the "special" nations in which they only half to play one half and everyone gets a biscuit at the end to make them feel good about themselves.

The midweek fixtures are an issue, agreed but aside from that the minnows came through fair and square qualifications to get to this stage. Trying to censor out thrashings for the sake of compassion and competition is a nice thought but not sport unfortunately. You get what's in front of you.

In any case, logic would indicate that the minnows would enjoy swifter progress in becoming better sides if they were allowed to mix it with the big boys on more than a rare basis.

Does it? I think theres a limit to that. Playing stronger sides is good yes but getting panned and not even trying toward the end isnt vvery helpful to anyone. Sides like Fiji and Canada and Georgia yes I buy that for, but the tier 5 nations are so far behind the top 9 its embaressing for everyone involved. I see value for these sides being challenged by the likes of Italy...and Italy being challenged in the 6 nations but trying to jump up 3 levels doesnt really help anyone.
Bear in mid that Wales are only a "secodn division" side and that thiswas a scratch lineup with many reserves in. I dont really see what Namibia are gtting from being here apart from a " hey at least you managed to catch the plane here" medal each to take home.

Yes they did have to qualify to get here but the bar is artifical, its not some magical divine right. It was lowered to allow more teams in...all thats succeeded in doing is keeping the stupid one sided games going. If the tier 5 nations have theright to qualifty why not the tier 6 ones. There has to be a cut off point somehwere, I think they jumped the srk by opening up to the 17-20 too early. As it is we are probably stuck with them now, so the IRB will continue to divert a chunk of world cup income that couldve gone to the tier 3 and 4's to really help them become competitive.

[samuraidragon]

We were certainly "fast, fit and confident" compared to the Namibians, who were none of these, especially in the last 20 when they were sucking in air. What we weren't was clinical or classy. We relied too much on boshing through / running over the Namibians. Yes, it worked - hence the scoreline - but it wouldn't against most other teams.

[Knowsit17]

Must be a typo Hersh, I think what you meant to say is at least no one took Byrne out in the air

[samuraidragon]

I havent managed to watch the game yet. Gonna get around to it later.

Can someone give me some info on the following though:

1. How did Geths play? Alright by the sounds of it

Yes, he was good ball in hand, ran fast for his try, and the Namibkian scrum was in all sorts of trouble.

2. Was Tavis any quicker than Phillips getting the ball away from the rucks?

A bit, but Lloyd Willams was much faster when he came on.

3. How did Halfpenny/Brew go?

Brew made a few errors. Halfpenny was good, but not spectacular.

4. Was it more similar to the SA or Samoa performance? (bit difficult to tell against Namibia, but you usually get the air of confidence or shakiness from wales).

Nothing like either really since we were so physically dominant. We made quite a few errors, gifted the Namibians a try through an interception, but North ran riot when he came on.

5. Did Bradley Davies get ball in hand much?

Didn't see much from him, to be frank.

[Stellar Key]

[quote="Comfort"]I havent managed to watch the game yet. Gonna get around to it later.
[i]
Can someone give me some info on the following though:

1. How did Geths play? Alright by the sounds of it
2. Was Tavis any quicker than Phillips getting the ball away from the rucks?
3. How did Halfpenny/Brew go?
4. Was it more similar to the SA or Samoa performance? (bit difficult to tell against Namibia, but you usually get the air of confidence or shakiness from wales).
5. Did Bradley Davies get ball in hand much?
[/quote][/i]

Gradually finding match fitness, one good run reminding Wales fans that he's still got some speed. Has turned the ball over a couple of times which he rarely did before.

Not impressed by Tav Knowyle . Too much chat and fiddling at the rucks. I thought Wales stepped up a gear after he was replaced.

Scrappy games for both 1/2p and Brew both are fast but didn't make the breaks like some of the others.

Hard to compare, the game had none of the intensity of the SA - Sam battles. The first XV would have steam rollered Nam but this scratch team were too unfamiliar to keep it all under control and running smoothly. They deserved the Gatland 'bollocking ' at HT

Not much , he spent some time rubbing his ginger head too.

[Knowsit17]

Does it? I think theres a limit to that. Playing stronger sides is good yes but getting panned and not even trying toward the end isnt vvery helpful to anyone. Sides like Fiji and Canada and Georgia yes I buy that for, but the tier 5 nations are so far behind the top 9 its embaressing for everyone involved. I see value for these sides being challenged by the likes of Italy...and Italy being challenged in the 6 nations but trying to jump up 3 levels doesnt really help anyone.
Bear in mid that Wales are only a "secodn division" side and that thiswas a scratch lineup with many reserves in. I dont really see what Namibia are gtting from being here apart from a " hey at least you managed to catch the plane here" medal each to take home.

Yes they did have to qualify to get here but the bar is artifical, its not some magical divine right. It was lowered to allow more teams in...all thats succeeded in doing is keeping the stupid one sided games going. If the tier 5 nations have theright to qualifty why not the tier 6 ones. There has to be a cut off point somehwere, I think they jumped the srk by opening up to the 17-20 too early. As it is we are probably stuck with them now, so the IRB will continue to divert a chunk of world cup income that couldve gone to the tier 3 and 4's to really help them become competitive.

There will undoubtedly have been a time when Fiji, Canada and Georgia will have been seen as "tier 5" nations and the reason they're not any more is arguably because they've been allowed to play the best on a fairly regular basis. I really don't think there's that much of a difference in the way you handle the step up in class, the general pattern is that to be the best you have to beat the best and to beat the best you have to play the best.

Even now you'd be able to spot glimpses of improvement even in Namibia. This year they gave Fiji a decent game and in 2007 they actually tested Ireland. Romania gave Scotland a major scare earlier in their pool. France were made to work to overcome Japan despite a flattering final score. All evidence against your theory that excluding mismatched sides is the best way forward. To get rid of mismatches you arguably have to go through some mismatches first and just because not all sides are being firmly tested on their way to the KO stages doesn't mean the WC is in desperate need of a reshuffle.

[RubyGuby]

This is how it went for me


Jenkins - Decent run out, needs to get his scrummaging right though
Burns - Just doesn't seem to have it for me - some poor lineouts against NAMIBIA
Mitchell - OK nothing special
Davies - Some good drives, seems to want his place back
AWJ - Doing what he needs to do has come on well
R Jones - Rather anonomous performance, sluggish
Warburton - Leads by example but guilty for one turnover -
Falatau - I liked his performance - starting to look for it more
Knoyle - Ponderous with ineffective box kicks giving away good posession
Jones - Rusty, another interception and is now behind Priestland IMO

Brew - I like Brew but he doesnt do himself any favours - its one thing wanting it, its another having the composure - he lacks the top 2 inches.
Davies - Decent game
Sc Williams - Looked sharp, missed some tackles early on but would be interesting to see him and Jamie in the centre at some stage - great bvack up though
1/2p - Loking sharp - FB next weekend for me on in for Shane
Byrne - Did ok but missed touch with his kicks
North - Mountain
Powell - Did what he needed to do against poor opposition
Owens - This is my number 2 hooker, power, speed and brains
Charterris - 20 stone burting through and he looks to offload - He's done well but needs to back himself more when it matters
L Williams - Loked much sharper than Knoyle and may have played himself on to the bench
Priestland - Didn't really get into a scrappy game but has proved himself in the first 2
Bevington - If this guy can learn to scrummage he's the new Gethin!!

Those are the harsh realities and for me this is what we learned IMO

Byrne still misses touch, Brew still lacks composure and looks for contact - North is bigger and doesn't look for contact Aled (think about it) - Scott Wiliams is a great back up centre and is pushing all the way. Wellies is down the pecking order - Knoyle might now be number 3 instead of number 2. Ryan remains a cart horse and I can see a backrow of 6 Toby, 7 Sam and 8 Blond Donkey next weekend. 2nd rows, as you were - Front row for me is Owens as the replacement number 2 with Gethin benching with Bevington.

Any thoughts

[samuraidragon]

Both Brew and 1/2P stuck to a route one approach. 1/2 looked fast and dangerous, but didn't make a clean break as he did vs Sam. Brew's handling wasn't particularly good.

The Lee Byrne try. Was the give and take with Halfpenny intended? If Byrne had drawn his marker, he could have put Halfpenny straight in, no give and take necessary.

Best try was the Namibian one. That's how to sell a dummy.

[samuraidragon]

Rubyguy, I'm not going to bother doing a player by player assessment because I agree with yours in totality. You're also spot on about North. Near the end he did a lovely little swerve and kick through (with two feet in the air, it looked like) and , as you say, tried to run past players rather than through them, as the other backs tended to do.

[TBJ9625]

RubyGuby,

I agree with all but Ryan Jones, first game back and I thought he looked up for it and hungry. Carried well, tackled well, can't believe you said anonomous!!!
Infact did you get him and Bradley Davies confused as I thought he was pretty poor today considering he is trying to get back into the 1st choice team

[RubyGuby]

TBJ - I have acknowledged being a bit harsh on Ryan in another post - I just think the bar has been raised by Lydiate and I'm looking for a more dynamic performance from Ryan. We all remember his power and pace, yes pace in the past. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh and I'll accept that.

Samurai - wise choice in your agreement

[Seagultaf]

I don't see what all the fuss is about Lloyd Williams, decent pass and quick but by the time he came on Namibia were down to 14 men and basicaly gave up. He was still turned over and gave a suicide pass to Gethin which got him injured.

Lets see how he gets on playing for the Blues and if he manages to get the 9 shirt off Richie Rees who I currently rate above Lloyd, together with Peel, Phillips and Tavis who I though played well given the rubbish ball he was getting until the Namibian no 6 was taken off.

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