Wayne Barnes - one major mistake nearly every game!

First topic message reminder :

For a referee who seems to be held in such high regard and who in general terms controls a game well he seems to make a disproportionate number of glaring errors in tight games. It's a pity that after what was such an enthralling game the major talking point is Barnes missing Contemponi being yards offside for Parks drop goal attempt. I bet New Zealand are hoping they avoid him at all costs!

regardless of whether he was right or not to award the try, its his own fault for putting himself and the teams in those positions and allowing play to continue. If he wanted to talk to either team, at all, surely there can be no tap and go until the whistle sounds again?

how would we all feel if the final was decided on a decision like that? or a quick throw (Wales vs Ire this year)? or a kick that could have gone to the TMO? Or an incorrect call at a scrum leading to the winning penalty kick of the game?

I'm with GG on this issue as a whole, perhaps not individual instances (the score didnt affect the game anyway, and at least it gave something for the french fans to cheer!).

Contentious (and some damn-right just wrong) calls by the referee and his TJs can, do and have affected the result of international games, this just shouldnt be the case.

We shouldnt expect them to get every call right, but in a high-level pressure game (and that means any competitive international) the high-pressure calls simply need to be right as the decision of that game can heavily affect not only the team/coach, but can have a knock on financially for the union, meaning people could lose their admin jobs etc etc behind the scenes.

if the wrong call was made in abusiness terms, people would be sacked, thats inapropiate for a referee (who half the time is not a professional) but we need the authorities to be doing all they can to help these guys. They dont make mistakes on purpose and shouldnt be villified, but should have to take responsibility for those mistakes and the authorities should be behind them helping them take those steps and making EVERYONES life easier.

Mike Selig wrote:BTW you CAN blame a referee for mistakes, I have no gripes with that. I do have a gripe with claiming any referee has ever cost a side the match ever. Or focusing more on the referee's mistakes than that of your team.

For example I wanted Australia to beat Ireland. BL had probably the worst game of any ref in this world cup so far in that match. However he was not the reason Aus lost, in the end Ireland played to their gameplan perfectly and Aus couldn't react.

That's just not logical. Of course a referee can cost a side a game, and has.

Take Scotland v Argentina as an example. Yes, Scotland's defence was poor to concede the try to Argentina. But they battled back, made a great kick of territory and argentina then made a similarly critical error in defence that conceded a 5m line out. Because Barnes failed to spot that Argentina were well off side as they desperately raced to charged down the drop goal (something Contepomi freely admits), Scotland were robbed of a chance to atone for their lapse. Which they richly deserved because they were the better team.

You can go on blaming Scotland as long as you like - they're not perfect, no team is - but to pretend the referee didn't actually influence the result is turning a blind eye to the impact of the incompetence.

I'd also cite the example of the famous Italian victory over France in this years 6N as evidence. All day long the scrums had been pinged one way or the other. With seconds to go on the clock, Italy continually collapsed the scrum right in front of their own sticks and a handy distance out. I think it was actually Walsh on this occasion, (am I wrong?) was obvious reticent to blow for a French penalty and give them a chance to steal the game. In the end, the ball bobbled out of a sixth collapse and he let play continue.

The game was in Italy, it can't have escaped his attention what the stakes were.

I'm not even going to mention Barne's 28 missed Penalties in 2007, because it opens the gates for the England rose tinted spectacle brigade to fester out of the woodwork and start going on about choking.

If the IRB keep ignoring it, it will keep happening. I have to say in this regard the IRB are their own worst enemies with the frankly ridiculous set of laws they've created governing the breakdown, and the charade of the crouch-touch-pause-pause-pause-engage take the hit/bind on to sheer fabric/head above hips/don't put your hand down/don't bore in/don't pull back/don't step sideways/push straight/ debacle in which the fact that the ball is increasingly fed into the second row and never seems to be actually hooked seems to be missed amongst the myriad of technical guess work that the referees are forced to try to follow.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:BTW you CAN blame a referee for mistakes, I have no gripes with that. I do have a gripe with claiming any referee has ever cost a side the match ever. Or focusing more on the referee's mistakes than that of your team.

For example I wanted Australia to beat Ireland. BL had probably the worst game of any ref in this world cup so far in that match. However he was not the reason Aus lost, in the end Ireland played to their gameplan perfectly and Aus couldn't react.

That's just not logical. Of course a referee can cost a side a game, and has.

Take Scotland v Argentina as an example. Yes, Scotland's defence was poor to concede the try to Argentina. But they battled back, made a great kick of territory and argentina then made a similarly critical error in defence that conceded a 5m line out. Because Barnes failed to spot that Argentina were well off side as they desperately raced to charged down the drop goal (something Contepomi freely admits), Scotland were robbed of a chance to atone for their lapse. Which they richly deserved because they were the better team.

You can go on blaming Scotland as long as you like - they're not perfect, no team is - but to pretend the referee didn't actually influence the result is turning a blind eye to the impact of the incompetence.

I'd also cite the example of the famous Italian victory over France in this years 6N as evidence. All day long the scrums had been pinged one way or the other. With seconds to go on the clock, Italy continually collapsed the scrum right in front of their own sticks and a handy distance out. I think it was actually Walsh on this occasion, (am I wrong?) was obvious reticent to blow for a French penalty and give them a chance to steal the game. In the end, the ball bobbled out of a sixth collapse and he let play continue.

The game was in Italy, it can't have escaped his attention what the stakes were.

I'm not even going to mention Barne's 28 missed Penalties in 2007, because it opens the gates for the England rose tinted spectacle brigade to fester out of the woodwork and start going on about choking.

If the IRB keep ignoring it, it will keep happening. I have to say in this regard the IRB are their own worst enemies with the frankly ridiculous set of laws they've created governing the breakdown, and the charade of the crouch-touch-pause-pause-pause-engage take the hit/bind on to sheer fabric/head above hips/don't put your hand down/don't bore in/don't pull back/don't step sideways/push straight/ debacle in which the fact that the ball is increasingly fed into the second row and never seems to be actually hooked seems to be missed amongst the myriad of technical guess work that the referees are forced to try to follow.

But you did mention it?!?!?

Curently Id nbe more concerned about Bryce Lawrence who when rated by his peers is by far the worst performing referee in this touramnet so far, in spite of Barnes' best efforts.

But I suppose that would fit with your rose tinted view of the world would it GG.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Curently Id nbe more concerned about Bryce Lawrence who when rated by his peers is by far the worst performing referee in this touramnet so far, in spite of Barnes' best efforts.

Have the RWC referees been evaluating each other?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Curently Id nbe more concerned about Bryce Lawrence who when rated by his peers is by far the worst performing referee in this touramnet so far, in spite of Barnes' best efforts.

Have the RWC referees been evaluating each other?

Notthe RWC refs but theres a general world referees forum that has been. Most of the posters there are actual acredited referees. They all rate the performances based on various criteria, they then publish figures with and without the scores given by refs from the same country as the guy being rated to account for bias.

Some may argue that the refs are the worst possible people to rrate the performnace since none of them can see and they habve no idea what the laws are of course....

There's only one rating that really counts.

What did Richie McCaw think of the referee's performance?

Once Richie starts publishing his thoughts, I can see real improvements happening in an area smiting the game.

I think Ritchies next move is to wear rugby boots on his hands so that he can tell the refs he was on his feet in the ruck!

Who's Ritchie?