Ireland vs Italy - Discussion Thread - Teams Announced

[MMC]

First topic message reminder :

Ireland:
15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
11 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
7 - Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (Leinster)
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
19 - Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
22 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Italy:
15 Andrea Masi
14 Tommaso Benvenuti
13 Gonzalo Canale
12 Gonzalo Garcia
11 Mirco Bergamasco
10 Luciano Orquera
9 Fabio Semenzato
8 Sergio Parisse (captain)
7 Mauro Bergamasco
6 Alessandro Zanni
5 Cornelius van Zyl
4 Quintin Geldenhuys
3 Martin Castrogiovanni
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
1 Salvatore Perugini.

Replacements:
16 Fabio Ongaro
17 Andrea Lo Cicero
18 Marco Bortolami
19 Paul Derbyshire
20 Edoardo Gori
21 Riccardo Bocchino
22 Luke McLean.

Afternoon all.

With just a few days to go now until a massive winner takes all game between Ireland and Italy, it's time to get our thoughts and opinions into one place.

There are many topics to discuss;

- Who'll start at 10?
- Who'll win the battle of the scrums?
- Who plays at 12 if D'Arcy isn't fit?

As a result of not getting the try bonus point against the USA (with Italy having managed to do so earlier today), we find ourselves in a situation whereby we either top the group or go home.

This is an absolutely massive game and the Italians will have been targeting for a long time now, much like Ireland targeted the Australia game.

So what are people's thoughts and feelings about the game?

- What tactics should we use?
- Where should we attack Italy?
- Where can Italy hurt Ireland?
- Who'll get the call in the highly contested positions of 9, 10 and 11?

I can't wait for this one.

Bring. It. On.

[ME-109]

Stand...the facts dont stand up to the argument about Earls not scoring against the big teams. His strike rate in the 6ns and even the WC is better than Trimble.

Trimble is a good player no arguement and he has turned around his form over the last 2 years. But it took that long. Earls starts for me everytime because of his ability to sniff out opportunity. Trimble just doesnt do it often enough.

[littlejohn]

Not much mention in this thread about Italy. That worries me. they have some very handy players in Semenzato, Zanni and Masi. Add a destructive front row and the best 8 in the world and you git yourself a very decent team.

Assuming they will be immesely fired up for this i'm calling a low scoring tight game - ireland by a nailbiting 4. if either prop for ireland gets injured i'll be even more nervous.

[Standulstermen]

Has Earls scored against the big teams? THe last time i remember it (and it is possibly down to my bad memory more than anything else) was England at twickenham in 2010. Has he scored against Oz, NZ or SA? Im not criticising him i just cant remember.

I agree Earls finishing is top notch. As i have said his finish against Russia was ridiculous (from a Trimble break i might add ) Like i say i think Trimble is suffering from Bowe being a cert. I just hope Tommy gets back the form that he showed against England in the 6N. Our centres arent the threat they were and it is almost as though our backrow poses more threat than our backs with SOB prominent. Earls is almost ploughing a lone furrow in this regard in our backline.

[mrsuperclear]

Fairly sure Earls hasn't scored against the Tri-nations. Who has since he's come on the scene though to be fair? Before I go through this list I just want to add it's off the top of my head so it's probably wrong But in 2009 we played SA and Aus in the autumn and Sexton kicked against SA and BOD and Bowe v Australia. Then in the summer last year I think BOD, Bowe, Tuouhy and someone else scored v NZ (pretty sure we score 4 tries but Earls was injured, no? I think Trimble had one wrongly disallowed that day too to be fair) and we played Australia last summer too and I don't remember us scoring a try. Autumn last year Bowe and Kearney against SA and Ferris and BOD v NZ. I think the one constant is Bowe really which makes it clear that Fitz/Earls/Trimble aren't or weren't as prolific as we'd like (Fitz especially, I think his only two tries for Ireland (open to correction) were against Italy in the grand slam year). As Stand said, let's hope Bowe gets back to the form he showed against England in the 6N as we definitely need him.

[Don Alfonso]

Trimble definitely didn't deserve to be benched after the warm-ups, but Earls doesn't deserve to be dropped now. And two wrongs don't make a right, so...

More concermed about Darcy. One improved game against Australia does not indicate a return to past glories. And he's been a weak link more often than not in the last couple of months.

[Standulstermen]

The team picked is spot on (im not getting into the half back debate). If our back 5 of the pack turn up we will win.

[rodders]

Can someone tell me when we last beat a top 6 team with O'Gara as the starting 10?

[debaters1]

I think ROG started against NZ in NZ in summer 2010, not sure about the Oz match on that tour. Played against France the previous 6N too.

[Sin é]

Can someone tell me when we last beat a top 6 team with O'Gara as the starting 10?

O'Gara has not started that many times against Top 6 teams since the grand slam. New Zealand & France would be the exception.
Argentina would have been a Top 6 when we won to secure 8th seeding for the RWC. Argentina was 3/4 at the time.
Then there was the draw against Australia in Croke Park. That team had Pocock & Stephen Moore in it though

[mrsuperclear]

Who are the top six? 3N, France and England? Well, we haven't beaten SA or Aus without Sexton since 2006 anyway. We drew with Aus in 2010 with ROG starting though. I'll let you fill in the NZ part. France since 2009 with ROG and England 2011 & 2010 Sexton started so 2009 is your answer. What prize do I win??

[ME-109]

Rodders all you need to know is that since O'Gara has been Irelands OH it has been during the most successful period of Irish rugby.

[Feckless Rogue]

Anyone have anything to say about the Ireland Italy game? Are they any threat? Is anyone worried or very confident? What type of a match will it be? Will our backs unlock the Italians defence?

Would beat the repetitive arguments over how brilliant (or not brilliant) Earls and O'Gara are. O'Gara is a no brainer. Earls is a close call. But the team is picked now. If you ask me Murray is the selection worth most discussion anyway.

[HammerofThunor]

No problem. 100% certain Ireland will win comfortably

[ME-109]

At the beginning of the wc i thought Murray will be our no.1 sh by the end of the competition .

We should win. Need to get the back row running at them and quick ball off these phases. No messing around with rog kicking long within our own half. If it gets into a slugfest and Ross,Best and Healy play like they did last spring then we could be on our way home

[Feckless Rogue]

But that was in Rome. We had a weaker team. Our front row hadn't played together before. We played particularly badly. Italy actually scored a try using their backs. Many things during the game went against us. And we still won.

Why are so many Irish fans riddled with doubt over this game? Why is it that Ireland beat Australia and Irish fans think they might lose to Italy. Wales lose to South Africa and scrape past Samoa, and many of their fans think they're going all the way to the final?

[mrsuperclear]

I don't know about us winning "comfortably" but I'm very confident we'll win. If this match was in Rome and we were on the back of a poor performance against Australia I'd be worried, but it isn't, so I'm not. It won't make pretty viewing though. I think George Hook wrote in the Independent this morning that it was "one for the neutrals". My fing arse it will be.

On Murray, very happy for the young lad and I'd be reasonably confident he's the future at Munster and Ireland. I don't see him as being the number one for Ireland just yet though DOD. Deccie picked him due to Italy's physicality I reckon. Rightly or wrongly he'll start Reddan in any potential 1/4 or 1/2 between Wales/France/England. Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but that's what I think will happen if we see off Italy. Come the six nations it might well be a different story though...

[ME-109]

I dont have any doubt that we should win. It would be disrespectful of italy to suggest it will be a walkover.

If Murray plays well tomorrow and we get to the qf i expect to see him start especially against Mike Phillips

[mrsuperclear]

I'd have no problem if you ended up being right DOD but I'd say, in that scenario, he'll start Sexton and Reddan. I wouldn't agree with it unless ROG and Murray play badly tomorrow, but that's what I think will happen.

[Feckless Rogue]

I think the Irish fans out there will be a huge source of motivation for the team. I've seen pictures on facebook which are reminiscent of Italia 90. As are the Ole Ole chants in the stadiums when we play. I reckon most of them are people in their 20's from the Republic who have left the country for work. Great to see them getting a chance to express their national pride.

But I've seen a good few Ulster flags in the crowds too. And they all seem to be having a ball. We outnumbered and outsang the Aussie's in Eden Park. The noise was immense. The players all said it and Les Kiss has said he's looking forward to the volume against Italy. The noise in an indoor venue will be even louder.

I know the English are well known for travelling in large numbers too. Not sure about the Welsh. But I think our games are gonna feel like home games to the players. Unless we ever face the hosts.

I think English, Welsh and Irish fans are all looking at the draw and seeing a chance to run to the final. But at the same time, we're all riddled with doubts because of the erratic form of our teams in the last few years. I think one of the three is gonna do it. Because France don't look like they will at all.

[Thomond]

I think the Irish fans out there will be a huge source of motivation for the team. I've seen pictures on facebook which are reminiscent of Italia 90. As are the Ole Ole chants in the stadiums when we play. I reckon most of them are people in their 20's from the Republic who have left the country for work. Great to see them getting a chance to express their national pride.

But I've seen a good few Ulster flags in the crowds too. And they all seem to be having a ball. We outnumbered and outsang the Aussie's in Eden Park. The noise was immense. The players all said it and Les Kiss has said he's looking forward to the volume against Italy. The noise in an indoor venue will be even louder.

I know the English are well known for travelling in large numbers too. Not sure about the Welsh. But I think our games are gonna feel like home games to the players. Unless we ever face the hosts.

I think English, Welsh and Irish fans are all looking at the draw and seeing a chance to run to the final. But at the same time, we're all riddled with doubts because of the erratic form of our teams in the last few years. I think one of the three is gonna do it. Because France don't look like they will at all.

That's when the French get you!

[Notch]

Time to stop bitchin' about selection and get behind the team! Getting fired up now;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/index/index/id/9405

Stephen Ferris; "You get the win you go through to the quarter-finals, number 1 seed, and you lose and you go home. We aren't going home."

Come on lads.

[Shifty]

I think English, Welsh and Irish fans are all looking at the draw and seeing a chance to run to the final. But at the same time, we're all riddled with doubts because of the erratic form of our teams in the last few years. I think one of the three is gonna do it. Because France don't look like they will at all.

I agree, the most dangerous Welsh team is a confident one, and we are confident at the moment.

I'm hoping Italy do as much damage as possible to Ireland, and soften you up for the potential Wales game in 6 days time. Though Ireland clearly have a hell of a lot of depth.

On form and on paper you'd have to say Ireland and Wales are playing better than England or France but sods law will have it that one of them will be in the final at our expense.

[Duty281]

I have a strange feeling that Italy will edge this one. Meaning AUS would get chucked in the other side of the draw.

[hogie]

Come on ye boys in Green!!

[BlueMuff]

[quote="roddersm"]
Anyways I think Kidney has got it wrong on the halfbacks. Really I think Sexton has been playing very well with the ball in hand, better than ROG and his game is more suited to the way we need to play, which is high tempo and using O'Brien, Heaslip, Healy, Bowe and Ferris through the middle.

ROG is a distributer and a kicker, no matter what he and Kidney say, which is not much use if you don't have penetration in the outside channels. He can't draw defenders the way Sexon does Thought he Italy were dragged all over the place so needs to stand much deeper which means everything is signposted and the likes of O'Brien are much less effective - didnt think SOB could have been anymore effective

Reddan,Sexton and Heaslip are a tried and tested combination and I don't like too much rotating around the key combinations as it affects the cohesion and balance of the side in attact and defence. Once again I dont believe this was the case

Trimble is very unfortunate again and will have to accept he's going to be a bit part player for the rest of the competition no matter how well he plays. Right now he's playing better than either Earls two tries and great fielding or Bowe but it looks like that back 3 is set in stone.

quote]


Are we now in agreement that ROG is not as bad as you make him out to be and ditto Murray

[rodders]

I'm now happy that ROG is still capable of producing the goods with the ball in hand over 80 min and never doubted his place kicking or ability to provide impact from the bench. He didn't have a great 1st half, standing too deep and shipping the ball to the touch line but was much better in the 2nd half and was a key part of an excellent victory.

Murray is the best scrum half we have, I've always said that, but is still learning and prone to silly errors. Each game he is getting better and that was a good display from him again.

Reddan and Sexton are a proven winning combination but yes I am happy to say that I am now confident that we can produce the level of performance we need regardless of which set we go with.

[BlueMuff]

I'm now happy that ROG is still capable of producing the goods with the ball in hand over 80 min and never doubted his place kicking or ability to provide impact from the bench. He didn't have a great 1st half, standing too deep and shipping the ball to the touch line but was much better in the 2nd half and was a key part of an excellent victory.

Murray is the best scrum half we have, I've always said that, but is still learning and prone to silly errors. Each game he is getting better and that was a good display from him again.

Reddan and Sexton are a proven winning combination but yes I am happy to say that I am now confident that we can produce the level of performance we need regardless of which set we go with.

think your spot on with your last comment. Think we finally are uniting. COME ON IRELAND - BELIEVE

[rodders]

Come on Ireland!

[Standulstermen]

I'm now happy that ROG is still capable of producing the goods with the ball in hand over 80 min and never doubted his place kicking or ability to provide impact from the bench. He didn't have a great 1st half, standing too deep and shipping the ball to the touch line but was much better in the 2nd half and was a key part of an excellent victory.

Murray is the best scrum half we have, I've always said that, but is still learning and prone to silly errors. Each game he is getting better and that was a good display from him again.

Reddan and Sexton are a proven winning combination but yes I am happy to say that I am now confident that we can produce the level of performance we need regardless of which set we go with.

think your spot on with your last comment. Think we finally are uniting. COME ON IRELAND - BELIEVE

And if Kidney picks Sexton against Wales for his physicality Muff??????

Only teasing. I think he should stick as is mind you

[BlueMuff]

I'm now happy that ROG is still capable of producing the goods with the ball in hand over 80 min and never doubted his place kicking or ability to provide impact from the bench. He didn't have a great 1st half, standing too deep and shipping the ball to the touch line but was much better in the 2nd half and was a key part of an excellent victory.

Murray is the best scrum half we have, I've always said that, but is still learning and prone to silly errors. Each game he is getting better and that was a good display from him again.

Reddan and Sexton are a proven winning combination but yes I am happy to say that I am now confident that we can produce the level of performance we need regardless of which set we go with.

think your spot on with your last comment. Think we finally are uniting. COME ON IRELAND - BELIEVE

And if Kidney picks Sexton against Wales for his physicality Muff??????

Only teasing. I think he should stick as is mind you

You wont get one complaint from me if he does

IN DECCIE WE TRUST

[rodders]

IN DECCIE WE TRUST

+ 1

[Sin é]

I'm now happy that ROG is still capable of producing the goods with the ball in hand over 80 min and never doubted his place kicking or ability to provide impact from the bench. He didn't have a great 1st half, standing too deep and shipping the ball to the touch line but was much better in the 2nd half and was a key part of an excellent victory.

Murray is the best scrum half we have, I've always said that, but is still learning and prone to silly errors. Each game he is getting better and that was a good display from him again.

Reddan and Sexton are a proven winning combination but yes I am happy to say that I am now confident that we can produce the level of performance we need regardless of which set we go with.

Rods, ROG was knackering the Italian pack by running them from side to side in the first half. Patience! Patience!

[dublin_dave]

was the best murray performance i had seen. that included a fair few munster games at back end of last season. he looked the real deal alright.

a few silly errors but by in large a top display.

cannot wait for Saturday. Fingers crossed we do the business. Quietly confident we will. Just goes to show you what one great result can do in terms of confidence.

[Feckless Rogue]

If you look at the last game, statistically Johnny Sexton kicked 100% of his kicks, while O'Gara only kicked 86%. Sexton has also been successful with 100% of his drop goal attempts in this tournament, while ROG has a lowly 0% success rate. So Sexton is now a better kicker than ROG statistically? Hehe. I hope you all get my point.

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