Mobile phone GPS devices

My club, like many, has a local rule in place permitting the use of distance measuring devices. However, I received the following notice this morning:

"The R&A recommend that mobile phones may be used, so long as no external advice is sought. They also state that a GPS application may be used so long as no other applications are enabled. This is all well and good for their own competitions when they have a number of Rules officials on site and competitors have to sign in at a registration desk, but is obviously impossible to police in our own Club Competitions. Therefore the Golf Committee have decided that the use mobile phone GPS applications are not permitted in competitions until further notice. Penalty for the use of any such device is DISQUALIFICATION."

Now, this has intrigued me. Aside from using the GPS for measuring distance, what other assistance could be sought from a phone? People talk about temperature, wind speed, gradient etc. but really is a phone capable of giving you an advantage in this respect? Is there anything else where a phone could help?

You could use it to post on 606 to seek an answer from Mac as to how to deal with a particualr element of course design.

I like to phone the Samaritans immediately after yet another triple bogey...

A tour experienced caddie with all the technology in the world, giving advice would be of no use to your average club hacker, so I think banning these is a little OTT. Let them use it I say, makes no difference to their game anyway.

Not sure really but I always found using a GPS app on the phone a pain in the erchie during competition rounds. I played a medal with a guy who had a laser and any distances he measured when I was close enough to him to have a guess myself I was never out more than 5 yards or so. I don't even hit the ball that consistently to be worried about being out that much and I doubt many GPS apps work to less than +/-5 yards anyway. Saying that I see no real problem letting amateurs use them. I doubt we'd benefit much from knowing the windspeed etc. but I would perhaps draw the line for elite amateur events and such but then thats probably the problem - the rules are supposed to be the same for all.

Agree all the devices in the world are of only marginal help to the "average club hacker", but disagree about an experienced caddie.

Technology wouldn't help but I guarantee that a professional caddie would improve a hacker's course management by 2 - 4 strokes a round, more for below average hackers, provided the hacker promised to follow all advice. Such as on: Percentage play off the tee, and when in trouble or "out of position", risk-reward circumstances, lay-ups etc.

I know I'd benefit from professional help in judging the terrain around the greens for pitching and chipping, both relative strong points in my game, plus greens reading, probably a weak point.

I have a GPS thing on my phone and in honesty I don't find it much use. Mainly because the phone battery dies after 4 minutes meaning the Mrs is in a mood when you get in because a) you've been out for 5 hrs playing golf and she had to go to the garden centre without you b) you smell like beer again and c) she couldn't get hold of you to tell you to get the cat some treats on the way home.

I think your club are doing you a favour Ray

I notice a great many people with GPS these days, but I bet if you asked them how far they hit each club, they wouldn't have a clue. So it's pretty pointless in their hands.

I don't even think you'd need an experienced caddy to take several shots off your average club hacker. Any decent player (or anyone with course management) could give enough advice to enable the hacker to make fewer bad choices and put themselves in better positions more often.

At least you've admitted you need some professional help Kwini many of us have thought that for a while, but were afraid to offend Shrinks4U are in your area soon

I've had my Bushnell a few months and the one thing it taught me, was that I didn't hit the ball as far as i thought. I now tend to use an extra club than before, and have shaved off shots, stopped coming up short, hardly ever go through the green. So it works for me, but a mobile app seems a bit dodgy as you'de have to have it in flight mode or something to make sure you couldn't recieve calls

Doc, i believe if you have it in flight mode so you can't receive calls youo also can't pick up the GPS signal to can't use it!

I bought a specific golf GPS for precisely this reason, having used a phone app for a couple of years. I think the theory is that if there's an accelerometer you can judge slopes, and the internet access in theory allows you to access weather information such as wind speed and direction (yet throwing grass up in the air is still allowed!).

Doc,
Just scratching the surface of the therapy needed - I'll be sure to keep my eyes peeled . . . . Help!

Has never occured to me to use my phone for GPS on a golf course despite all the apps now available. I use a Laser and find that is superb for distance measuring not only on the course but also for what SR point out and something Doc to has noticed in his own game, and that's for helping to figure out exactly how far you hit each club. It wouldn't surprise me if most am's when actually doing this found they were at least 10-15 yards out of how far they hit each club.

I've used mine to measure in varying circumstances from calm to almost gail force into and down wind to get accurate yardages, only when you know these can you say when using a range finding device is it worth using because no good for example measuring 160yards pulling an 8 iron only to come up 10yards short in the crap.

Plus no matter how good the device, good course management is simply the best and most useful club in the bag. I'd love to caddy for a round where I get to pick everyshot a higher player plays I think it'd surprise them how good they can be with the right shot selection; likewise I'd love a round with a good caddy on my bag doing the same for me

Mav it can also be abit scary at times when you know you have receptive or soft greens. Selecting an iron you know you can hit the exact yardage, means squeeky bum time because of worry about overshooting the green. Selecting your usual iron will come up short of the stick due to no run-out. So course management needed as well

Maverick wrote:
Plus no matter how good the device, good course management is simply the best and most useful club in the bag. I'd love to caddy for a round where I get to pick everyshot a higher player plays I think it'd surprise them how good they can be with the right shot selection; likewise I'd love a round with a good caddy on my bag doing the same for me

Mav, you can carry my bag anytime if all you want in return is to choose what club I use.

Diggers if I get to choose the club and shot to play everytime then let's try this out

If you drive up to Scotland, you can pick my club, shot, and kick me in the shin every time don't do it right, as long as it helps me improve.

Will even buy you a Snickers

Maverick wrote:Diggers if I get to choose the club and shot to play everytime then let's try this out

Fine by me, am sure I would learn a lot. Be interesting if I told you what club I'd probably choose and the shot and then go with the optins that you decide.
Mind you I can shank pretty much every club in the bag.....

I think it would be good from both perspectives for us both diggers. Would be interesting to look at say previous scores then ones from that day, also interesting putting your whole round in hands of someone else whilst all you do is pull the trigger. So if we can get together Digs sounds good to me

I sometimes wonder if a caddie on the pro tour would really help a higher handicapper - though I'm sure a caddie from a regular course (like St Andrews perhaps) where they are used to caddying for a hacker could help.

The whole DMD thing is also very true as people see it here. I regularly see players who think they can hit (just for sake of argument) a 7 iron 150 yards - and indeed they can if the count the total distance. Yet many of these players only CARRY the 7 iron about 135 - and can't believe they come up into the front bunker on a 150 yard par3.

I am a shorter hitter and usually take one or two clubs more than my playing partners - yet I have more of an idea how far I can CARRY a particular club, rather than how far the total distance is. I regularly hit a 5 iron (or even a 4 iron depending on the breeze) into one of our par3s that is only 150 yard to the centre of the green. It helps that when I catch it right my ball flight is quite high so I know if I land on the green it will stop a bit quicker. My playing partners get quite upset when their 150 yard 7 iron catches the front bunker

I'm no tour caddie, but I caddied for a mate of mine when I was injured, he is an 18 handicapper and has no course management so though I could get him round in at least 4 shots less with some sensible shot selections. How I was wrong.

"Just lay it up to 100 yards" .........."not bad. Only 50 yards short......and in the deep rough."

So frustrating.

Davie: the fact is your playing partners could learn a lot from you choosing to accept how far you hit each club and knowing your yardages with each. There is no prizes to be won in club golf or bounce rounds by hitting further than anyone, just about gettng he lowest score and fact is hitting the right club for the distance in this game is far more important than saying you can hit that 7 iron 150yards. The score card doesn't say what club you hit or how far it went; it just shows the score made so if that means your 5 iron gets you a par3 and their ego 7iron makes 4 or 5 due to the bunker then i'd know who i'd rather be an thats the guy hitting shorter and scoring better

Well I'm near Brighton Mav, not sure where you are but think it's south ? Sure we can sort something out, maybe with s couple of other board guys. I'd be quite happy to carry my own bag and watch you swing a club and still adhere to my side of the bargain re doing as I'm told. It's like you'd be my wife for 4 hours Mav.

I'm in Kent diggers so can easily arrange a trip down to brighton, may not be in the immediate future with Mrs Mav due to pop out a new little Mav in 2 days but i'm definately up for that. As for being like our wife for 4 hours as long as you don't try to slip me anything i'm game !

I have a golf buddy gps and I've found it invaluable. Like many have said it lets you know just how short many of us are. When I first bought it I said to my playing partners none of us hit it as far as we think but met much derision,needless to say I and the gps were proved to be correct.
It is also good for hazzards and lay up distance. Perhaps the greatest benefit is the distance to green and in particular on unfamiliar courses to provide confidence on approach shots as to whether corrrect club in hand and we all know how important confidence is in this game.

I suspect my wife is a tad prettier than you Mav so you're safe. Ive another kid on the way in February so at least if we do play well both be looking equally knackered.

Diggers I could look good in a dress but seriously sounds good and we can both use it as our break from nappy changing

Diggers/Mav: I'll get you on at Mannings Heath, if you want.

Merc sounds good to me if we get one more could make it a nice spring time 4 ball.

I've said it before that although many amateurs do come up short because the overestimate how far they hit but there is also a common fear in amateurs of hitting past the pin. Of course there are certain times when you shouldnt go past the pin but a lot of the times that fear is still there even if there's nothing but room behind the pin. Must be physcological thing of a) they are so used to under clubbing in the first instance; and b) the hole is x yards long and therefore no shot should put their ball greater than x yards. x yards is the edge of the world!

For the record I have no problem hitting long of the pin or short of it although neither is usually intentional!

Lairdy wrote:I've said it before that although many amateurs do come up short because the overestimate how far they hit but there is also a common fear in amateurs of hitting past the pin. Of course there are certain times when you shouldnt go past the pin but a lot of the times that fear is still there even if there's nothing but room behind the pin. Must be physcological thing of a) they are so used to under clubbing in the first instance; and b) the hole is x yards long and therefore no shot should put their ball greater than x yards. x yards is the edge of the world!

For the record I have no problem hitting long of the pin or short of it although neither is usually intentional!

The thing is... it is usually better to be short than long. For example, on my course, going over the back of the green means OOB / trees on 11 holes, whereas coming up short is usually a bunker at worst. There are only 2 holes where there is room behind the green, but on both those holes going long means a difficult downhill chip. So x yards really is the edge of the world!

That's true and most greens slope from back to front to accept shots too.

On the other hand most greens must be about 20-30yards deep on average? Average yardage gap between clubs would be about 10-15 yards? Yet most balls end up on the front fringe....

I agree Lairdy. I'd much rather have a putt from the back of the green to a front pin position than leave myself a nasty little chip from just short (or worse still, a front bunker shot)

I carry a rather old little 5 wood that I can hit about 175 yards (including roll), but I know I only carry it about 150). Get quite a few strange looks pulling it out on a 155 yard par3 but the green slopes severely back to front and has 3 nasty front bunkers. I know it will carry approx 150 yards and land fairly softly. The worst that can happen is when I thin it slightly which gives lower ball flight and less chance of stopping - and I can end with a nasty downhill chip from the back

A good old fashioned course planner is all I need! Or so I keep telling myself before I eventually give in to temptation and get one of these GPS things.

I don't know, it just feels wrong somehow, like cheating. Anyone else feel this way?

For most handicap golfers when playing your own course, you do not need one, but I think they are ideal for playing courses that you seldom play, gives you that bit of local knowledge

I have no problem with them at all, they are merely a digital strokesaver.
They can't help you with slope, wind, grain. turf type etc so don't see how they can be considered cheating, especially as many courses have yardages on sprinkler heads and every course has strokesavers available.

I don't know, I played a course on Sunday that I hadn't played since i was a junior (a lot more trees now...and a hotel!) so I bought a planner. I got quite a bit of satisfaction in working out distances manually rather than just point and click. I don't have a problem with GPS at all, though I do think they take away a bit of the skill of the game. Mind you, you have to rely on the course having a good planner.

I agree with Ray.
Possibly owing to designers trying to get the most out of the available land and the tendancy to build courses a bit longer now, there is rarely much room long of a green. Certainly at my club you're better off short on all but about 3 holes.
Plus if it's true that most greens slope back to front (never really checked this out) surely you'd be better leaving yourself short for an uphill chip than long for a slippery one??

goldwolf wrote:I don't have a problem with GPS at all, though I do think they take away a bit of the skill of the game. Mind you, you have to rely on the course having a good planner.

i disagree - i think they take away a bit of the 'chance' of the game. every time i use my gps i am challenged to be more skillfull and less lucky. that said, its often better to be lucky than good!

Mercurio wrote:Diggers/Mav: I'll get you on at Mannings Heath, if you want.

If Davie volunteers to make up the 4 ball I might be a bit suspicious this is a set up to give me a good kicking. Maybe it shows that the modding works pretty well on here if people who havent always got on famously in the past can agree to meet up for a round.

I think thats a good thing indeed diggers and also shows whether we be mods or we be posters then we are equal and happy to accept we have different opinions.

No idea where Mannings Heath is but I'm always up for a game, no matter who it's with

Yes, even Diggers

Diggers wrote:

Mercurio wrote:Diggers/Mav: I'll get you on at Mannings Heath, if you want.

If Davie volunteers to make up the 4 ball I might be a bit suspicious this is a set up to give me a good kicking. Maybe it shows that the modding works pretty well on here if people who havent always got on famously in the past can agree to meet up for a round.

I'm mature enough not to hold grudges. Whilst I can't say it's deliberately done, it amazes me how I regularly forget who I have disagreements with and that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned because it means, on future disagreements, I only play the ball and not the man.

Davie wrote:No idea where Mannings Heath is

Just south of Gatwick.

Diggers wrote:

Mercurio wrote:Diggers/Mav: I'll get you on at Mannings Heath, if you want.

If Davie volunteers to make up the 4 ball I might be a bit suspicious this is a set up to give me a good kicking. Maybe it shows that the modding works pretty well on here if people who havent always got on famously in the past can agree to meet up for a round.

I reckon you should take Diggers to the stuffiest, set in their ways, old boys golf club you can find. Wind him up and let him go! I'd pay to see that!

JPX wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Mercurio wrote:Diggers/Mav: I'll get you on at Mannings Heath, if you want.

If Davie volunteers to make up the 4 ball I might be a bit suspicious this is a set up to give me a good kicking. Maybe it shows that the modding works pretty well on here if people who havent always got on famously in the past can agree to meet up for a round.

I reckon you should take Diggers to the stuffiest, set in their ways, old boys golf club you can find. Wind him up and let him go! I'd pay to see that!

I wouldn't got to a place like that for a friendly knock as I want to enjoy a cold sociable one with the guys afterwards. Unless i can gind a blazer made by loudmouth clothing then the stuffy brigade would have to let us in as it meets dress code even though it looks like a sack of excrement