You dont know what you have until its gone

First topic message reminder :

I am at my wits end here. After repeated requests to stop the bickering and arguing its as if I dont even exist and you just ignore me. Because of this we are seeing regular members leaving the site.

So I thought I would share a few comments and posts from alternative tennis sites, because if you dont start behaving you will find yourself there where the discussions are based on the following:

Rafa Nadal GOAT? yeah right! He is the 10th best on the tour now let alone GOAT. all he does is moonball and run about.

Forgive my ignorance, On matters relating to tennis, but why does Andy hit the ball back to Nadal, while sneaky Rafa, hits it past "oor Andy"....bad sportsmanship or what?

Watching sharapova vs kvitova final and it's pretty boring as women,s tennis usually is, but some of the things other than the tennis itself are pretty exiting.

So................Anyone but Murray it is then...

Anyone that wanted nadal to win............Is a disgrace, why don't you support your fellow brit, disgusting

wow, so many fa,gs on this site. disliking murray cause of the way he looks.. its called tennis not mr. world

The reason I don't support Murray is because his mothers face annoys me intensely.

I am going to be a lot stricter in here. This is a good site to be a part of, but if you dont start behaving, you will find yourself out the door and left to discuss topics as per my examples.

YI

Jarvik, you think its ok for us to lose members because of player bashing and attacking members/fans for supporting a certain player?

We dont have this problem anywhere else on v2, so why should we allow it in tennis?

May I butt in? You will not find a single objectionable post from me on the erstwhile 606 either. But why so much of policing? As long as certain legal boundaries are reached, let the forum gather its momentum. We all are sensible English speaking folks. Even some outlandish posts on 606 were funny. Why not here too?

They are breaching legal boundaries , We're apart of Forumotion which mean they monitor us and if they rules get broken and we do nothing they can close us down immediately until it's gone.

fernando wrote:They are breaching legal boundaries , We're apart of Forumotion which mean they monitor us and if they rules get broken and we do nothing they can close us down immediately until it's gone.

Did somebody from Forumotion make any comments?
This is the meekest and most polite forum I have ever seen,btw.

They have mentioned a few things before hence why we've had to tighten things up it's not cos we want to stop debates its just to stop us from being shut down by them because of rule breaching comments

Manojchandra wrote:May I butt in? You will not find a single objectionable post from me on the erstwhile 606 either. But why so much of policing? As long as certain legal boundaries are reached, let the forum gather its momentum. We all are sensible English speaking folks. Even some outlandish posts on 606 were funny. Why not here too?

Sorry but not everyone is sensible here. As for posts being funny is it funny to lie and twist players words to make them look bad and insult others for supporting that player? Is it funny to rehash the same posts full of nonsense about one of the all-time greats of tennis and alienate fans of that player. Certainly not. Nobody is stopping people from posting wind-up posts just do them elsewhere. Perhaps on a new forum but I'll lay you a bet that it would never take off as these sort of posters will only post where they can offend others.

fernando wrote:They have mentioned a few things before hence why we've had to tighten things up it's not cos we want to stop debates its just to stop us from being shut down by them because of rule breaching comments

Thast's so bad and so sad. What's this world coming to

noleisthebest wrote:

fernando wrote:They have mentioned a few things before hence why we've had to tighten things up it's not cos we want to stop debates its just to stop us from being shut down by them because of rule breaching comments

Thast's so bad and so sad. What's this world coming to

The same world then drove a police van 92 miles to take a prisioner 45 yards cos of his "human rights"

CC one thing for sure is that if people like you were ruling this forum, I woudl have left a long time ago and I am sure many would do the same. You are only interested in Murray, cannot engage in a constructive discussions when addressing your player as noted by many posters here and worse rarely brings anything enlighting about the game.

Calder, LF for instance are also Murray fans but there are a breath of fresh air in comparison to your constant bashing not of players...worse, of posters.

I am with Jarvik, NITB, Mano and many more I am sure. Which great posters have we lost because of JM's comments? I really wonder.

Tenez wrote:CC one thing for sure is that if people like you were ruling this forum, I woudl have left a long time ago and I am sure many would do the same. You are only interested in Murray, cannot engage in a constructive discussions when addressing your player as noted by many posters here and worse rarely brings anything enlighting about the game.

Calder, LF for instance are also Murray fans but there are a breath of fresh ai in comparison to your constant bashing not of players...worse posters.

I am with Jarvik, NITB, Mano and many more. Which great posters have we lost because of JM's comments? I really wonder.

No you misunderstand though. People such as myself and many other tennis fans choose not to even bother engaging in discussions here any more such is the bile that is posted and lies/mistruths that are posted just to suit their own perverse agenda. Now we could debate forever about the rights and wrongs about this but comments that offend many people and fans of players are not doing this forum any favours at all hence why we have got to this stage.

You don't get it. Serious and adult posters don't complain or leave a forum because of other posters. I hope the mods understand that. There would have been no-one on 606 had people been put off by wums, yet it was the busiest tennis forum ever. If anything, the more wums, the more people like you like to engage with them. Just go and watch any old thread of Murray bashing and you find a bunch of posters like you filling the thread arguing with the wums. The reason you don;t argue against my points is that you don;t have any valid points yourself and therefore only state the "greateness of the player as if he was beyond critique.

noleisthebest wrote:

fernando wrote:They have mentioned a few things before hence why we've had to tighten things up it's not cos we want to stop debates its just to stop us from being shut down by them because of rule breaching comments

Thast's so bad and so sad. What's this world coming to

I have to agree with you my dear, all of this is deeply saddening, you would have told it was surreal if it wasn't so annoyingly, persistently real.
Just think that maybe the time to turn out the light has come....

noleisthebest wrote:This is the meekest and most polite forum I have ever seen,btw.

Absolutely, and this is why this thread is so bewildering.


[quote="Y I Man"]Jarvik, you think its ok for us to lose members because of player bashing and attacking members/fans for supporting a certain player? quote]


Yes, of course it's ok. Why should cry babies and conflict-phobics set our agenda any more than the provocateurs? At least the latter keep the ball in play, albeit weakly!

Sorry Tenez but it is rich coming from you - a legend of WUM's. 606 was so busy as it was affiliated with one of the biggest corporations in the world - the BBC. If you could still access those pages now you could check and see how many people complained about WUM's on there. I admit my weakness is responding to WUM's purely so their lies/mistruths are not seen as gospel and why should I sit back and allow people to post such nonsense. Agreed it is one of my failings though and as from now that will no longer be the case. And as for the nonsense about me only talking about the greatness of Murray - nonsense. I tipped Nadal to beat Murray in the US Open and have often talked about Murray's areas of weaknesses.

I'd love to know why you have never broken away to set up your own ideal utopia though. A tennis forum with its doors open to WUM's where anything goes and with a strong dislike/hatred of Nadal and a place to slate Murray to their hearts content. If you feel that is what people want then go for it - there is nothing stopping you but mods and admins here are making it clear what direction they want this tennis forum to go. Now where does that leave you?

Come on Gents stop with the arguing.

i'll end this peacefully you have 3 choices

1) You abide by the rules and calm it down a bit without the insults etc
2) you continue to go against them and get banned
3) You leave now because you don't agree how its being run or the way its heading

Honestly id be more then happy to sit here and talk tennis but people need to realize everyone has view weather it's right or wrong but when you bring unnecessary insults against players and members into its gone too far.

Sorry fernando but I'll make a sabbatical exit now and hopefully you and your admins can sort things out for the better. Best of luck to you all.

Ty craig I hope you enjoy wherever you go and hopefully one day your come back and hopefully we'll all have moved on from this.

CaledonianCraig wrote:It really is quite pathetic what the tennis section has become really. Largely, a no-go zone for level-headed tennis fans

@ Fernando

I' m personally inclined to opt for the N3 choice. But before I would ask you the BIG favour to prevent people like the person above from repeatedly insulting the members of this forum, that along with the players would also need some respect.##

THANKS

That's your choice Jeremy,

You go where your happiest, enjoy yourself

Goodnight Ladies and Gentleman lets hope for a peaceful week

Can anyone imagine what a tennis forum would be like if all anyone did was discuss the game and no robust debate ensued? Frankly it's the arguments that keep the place alive.

You cannot discuss something that you're passionate about with others of similar passion but differing opinion without it getting lively. That's just a fact. The mods keep the illegal stuff out, and that's fine, but the bickering must stay!

[quote="bogbrush"]People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling.




A perfect example of insulting posts that drive members away. Sexist and tasteless BB, but I've come to expect that from you in your constant war against Nadal supporters.

I'm sorry, its just my "opinion", but this kind of stuff polarises forums and creates the friction that on here has taken me away to discuss tennis on a more affable board.

Which other boards are frequented? Can contributors throw some light please.
Let me have a peep. I tried Tennis lounge briefly. I liked Yahoo site for a few moments till I saw the expletives and ads.

[quote="Jubbahey"]

bogbrush wrote:People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling.




A perfect example of insulting posts that drive members away. Sexist and tasteless BB, but I've come to expect that from you in your constant war against Nadal supporters.

I'm sorry, its just my "opinion", but this kind of stuff polarises forums and creates the friction that on here has taken me away to discuss tennis on a more affable board.

But he is dead right and you know it!

NITB, I strongly recommend you do not re edit a post which has been edited by an ADMIN of the board.

Well, you deleted it, so what's there to edit? And what was wrong with it, did I offend anyone?
What exactly was unpublishable in all those links?

[quote="noleisthebest"]

Jubbahey wrote:

bogbrush wrote:People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling.




A perfect example of insulting posts that drive members away. Sexist and tasteless BB, but I've come to expect that from you in your constant war against Nadal supporters.

I'm sorry, its just my "opinion", but this kind of stuff polarises forums and creates the friction that on here has taken me away to discuss tennis on a more affable board.

Oh Gosh! I really thought she was a 15 years old

But he is dead right and you know it!

Anyway, I can't exist with this kind of breathing down your neck , I'll take a walk and come back once all these crybabies go away.

I edited your post to take out the links, you then put them back in.
They have their own forum so leave them in peace instead of posting links to it on here.

If you dont agree, then tough. Its all in the site rules

[quote="Jeremy_Kyle"]

noleisthebest wrote:

Jubbahey wrote:

bogbrush wrote:People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling.




A perfect example of insulting posts that drive members away. Sexist and tasteless BB, but I've come to expect that from you in your constant war against Nadal supporters.

I'm sorry, its just my "opinion", but this kind of stuff polarises forums and creates the friction that on here has taken me away to discuss tennis on a more affable board.

Oh Gosh! I really thought she was a 15 years old ----------> JK PDO

But he is dead right and you know it!

------------> FAKE!

Jubbahey wrote:

bogbrush wrote:People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling..

A perfect example of insulting posts that drive members away. Sexist and tasteless BB, but I've come to expect that from you in your constant war against Nadal supporters.

I'm sorry, its just my "opinion", but this kind of stuff polarises forums and creates the friction that on here has taken me away to discuss tennis on a more affable board.

I'm sorry Jub but if you look back to July that was pretty much exactly what happened. And remarking that Rafa tends to have more than his fair share of the ladies/girls/female (delete to use least offensive term) fan club is also just a fact. And any look at the Rafa section would tell you that it wasn't exactly in-depth consideration of the strings that caught their attention most of the time.

So exactly what is so offensive about my post, except that it was factually pretty much spot-on? Could it be that you found the facts a little embarressing and would prefer that I pretended that Rafas fans had the same demographics as Federer, Djokovic and Murray? I'm quite sure that Lydian would accept this is how it is, without conceding that it carries any discredit to Nadal himself.

Come on, let's at least be able to tell the truth without getting hot under the collar.

I didnt mention offensive, but it is sexist.
You also seem to harbour an opinion that anything not macho is hysterical female extreme fanaticism. Whether or not it is an accurate description of their social preference of writing, they kept it to their own thread and you would not have noticed it had you not wandered over to have a peek at their articles.

If you cant see that then we're both on a hiding for nothing.

Maybe I'm being over reactive, but its humiliating for them to have to see that kind of male dominant bullying on a free forum. You can't expect decent correspondence on a board when people are segregated for their gender and or their perceived sexual preferences (not that you've brought that directly into your posts).

What makes you think I am "hot under the collar"? I'm sitting here quite calm without feeling the need for BOLD or irrational writing.

Just another example of pushing unnecessary buttons to provoke an angry response, you wont get one, not from me anyhow, we've known each other too long BB.

In fact I'll say this much, on the whole you post quite witty and intelligent stuff and for that reason I haven't foed you, unlike several posters that I have.

Its just that I dont like what was the constant derision to a group of people who are not guilty of anything apart from their gender and a fanciful attraction to a member of the opposite sex and the style of tennis he plays.

Jarvik wrote:If a moderator is at their wits end on a forum as generally well-informed and articulate as this then expectations are unrealistic. Moderation should be about measured facilitation of lively debate - so what if there are some spiky characters, some wums. Things sometimes get a bit personal - big whoops. For my money, and as a moderator myself, I think some of the language used in the moderation recently, some of the frustration obviously felt, suggests an inappropriate approach.

I'm not saying less moderation needed, just to be realistic about the nature of internet forums.

Jarvik. The vast majority of the time this forum is a nice mix of personalities. While Lydian and Positively in particular make some valid points about how debate has got a little stuck lately, the other posters complaining really want a fan site where there is consensus of sentiment and opinion, and some of them, I believe belong to such sites so when they make the trip across here, they have the opportunity to experience a different type of forum - one where there is often little consensus - I think they need to decide which site they enjoy frequenting the most, and if they enjoy participating in both then learn to celebrate the differences between them - don't try and make them all the same. I laughed at BB's parody on Mark II of this thread - so many posters missed the point; it's great to have a straight article like that written by certain posters, but we would all leave very quickly if every poster wrote something so saccharine all the time - we have newspapers for sporting news, this is a forum for peoples' opinions. I think it was bb who once wrote that it was not opinion that was wrong on this board, it was the intolerance of opinion, and I wholeheartedly agree with him. In short, I come on here expecting to disagree with points of view, I don't want to see myself just mirrored back at me, and I accept that people will have different ways of expressing their beliefs. It would be great to see articles by Lydian or Positively, and I am sure you would both get lots of very good responses to your posts, and that you are both intelligent and humourous enough to deal with any not to your tastes pretty well!

The Rafateers did not like MTL either, citing anti Nadal posts, so it is not the fault of this forum they left, and in fact they were more than capable of being derisory about other players and other posters themselves on their patch so it is very unfair to portray them as victims imo - simply this is not a forum that will work for them, nor was MTL - they want a fan site, and when Rafa was No 1, although there were differences of opinion it didn't irk them as much as when Djokovic took W from Rafa - they are happy in a playground clique - trust me, I'm a girl! You can't beat up on posters for causing their exodus - they will reappear if Rafa begins thrashing Nole next year, as sure as eggs is eggs!

Jarvik wrote:If a moderator is at their wits end on a forum as generally well-informed and articulate as this then expectations are unrealistic. Moderation should be about measured facilitation of lively debate - so what if there are some spiky characters, some wums. Things sometimes get a bit personal - big whoops. For my money, and as a moderator myself, I think some of the language used in the moderation recently, some of the frustration obviously felt, suggests an inappropriate approach.

I'm not saying less moderation needed, just to be realistic about the nature of internet forums.

Agreed - anonymity is the father of a lot of irresponsibility and you are always with that on a site like this. Over-sensitive posters are as troublesome as tail tweakers. There's an enormous difference between opinionated posters who eventually resort to personal remarks when they realise in their frustration that they can't get everyone to see their own way, and WUM's - the former liven life up and usually make a few good points on their inevitable road to mini-perdition. One of the banes of modern life is people who regard it as their birthright to get offended and expect others to skip about worrying about that. To go back to my first point, responsibility is a two-way streak, the responsibility not to cause unecessary offence is matched by the responsibility not to take unecessary offence when your correspondent is an anonymous id on a chat forum.

barrystar wrote:There's an enormous difference between opinionated posters who eventually resort to personal remarks when they realise in their frustration that they can't get everyone to see their own way, and WUM's - the former liven life up and usually make a few good points on their inevitable road to mini-perdition.

It is interesting to note that some of the threads with the most contentious views draw the largest crowds - presumably that is why posters (except for theRafateers) are not just content with the fan sites and the 'popularity' of such threads illustrate that everyone likes a little of the cut and thrust of argument on these boards? Or, are these people just masochistic and feel they have to debate while hating every minute of it, in order to educate the masses? I suggest it is because the fan sites don't satisfy every need!

Most of the people complaing about posters being offensive are the first to resort to personal insults to another poster

barrystar wrote:One of the banes of modern life is people who regard it as their birthright to get offended and expect others to skip about worrying about that. To go back to my first point, responsibility is a two-way streak, the responsibility not to cause unecessary offence is matched by the responsibility not to take unecessary offence when your correspondent is an anonymous id on a chat forum.

and thrice

I couldn't put it any better. If this forum is going to become ruled by the tyranny of the over sensitive, then I think it will lose everyone in time!

You are missing the point. Criticism of a player is fine. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is comments such as:
"Nadal is only really admired by those who don't really follow tennis"
"You have a major Murray fanboy syndrome"
that I want stopped.

And it is not a case of over sensitive members complaining about it, it is a case of a founder of this forum saying it is stopping.
The forum is not open to rob rule where anything goes, we run it and we say what is allowed and what isn't.

Well YI Man, it is the minority of comments isn't it? Why can't a poster simply be asked quietly to re-write anything you find is not acceptable and then the revised post can be displayed?

Throw a few posters to your over sensitive wolves by all means, but I think you will find that the traffic on here dwindles to nothing. The threads that excite the most interest and attract posters back are often the most contentious.

Handle it quietly is my advice, by pm and ask a poster to revise the point you take exception to - much better for the forum than trying to stifle debate - but hey, it's your party, this is just mvho!

PM's & my previous requests on threads have just been getting ignored. (that Nadal quote was even posted on this thread!!!)
So as I said, im getting tougher because people dont pay any attention to what I say.
If people continue to post stupid comments like that, then temporary bans are being dished out.

I don't understand why you just don't remove a comment then YI Man, and the posters concerned will soon learn that unless they toe the line they won't be in print!!! Re the Nadal quote - that is ridiculous, it is so obviously ridiculous that if it offends anyone then they need denerving! But, if it breaks the house rules - remove the post and tell the poster that the post will be displayed once the offending passage has been rewritten.

My issue will all of this is put very well by barrystar - and while I understand your original point perfectly, it is obvious by some of the responses to the thread that it has been misconstrued by some of the more sensitive posters as a chance to say 'I told you so, so and so was being nasty about my favourite player' and citing posts that should not offend because they are not, as in the cases you quote, insulting a fellow poster in any way, it is just that the complainant finds the other's view offensive.

I think you need to draw a huge distinction line on this thread because it is being misunderstood, that is what I was initially saying.

I can't stand insults bandied about between posters either and I hate terms like fanboy - would I need to complain, no, but I think it is valid that you, as Founder, should absolutely say enough to this kind of petty insult between posters. 'The Murray Major etc, etc' comment is ridiculous too, but I will say in that poster's defence (and I am not keen on their irascibility!) that they took as much as they gave in several previous incidences and I think that a lot of posters have understood that this forum will be intolerant of negative posts about Murray in the future, whereas in fact you are drawing the line at personal insults directed at a player or a poster, while still allowing robust and, maybe, unpopular comment. Have I understood?

I have been removing the comments, but that is not enough because they should not even be posted in the first instance, and even when moved the same people are still posting them.
There have been posts insulting & attacking other posters, advertising other forums, homophobic comments, unnecessary player bashing.

Now some of you might not have a problem with it, but unfortunately we do.
Site rules:

No racism, sexism, homophobic or otherwise vulgar language will be tolerated.
Disobeying a Moderator or Admin can result in you being disciplined by the Admins, up to and including being kicked from the site or temporarily/permanently being banned.
No advertising of other sites that include forums.
If instructed by staff to do something, you are to comply. Failure to comply with Moderator or Admin instructions will result in punishment.

https://www.606v2.com/t1019-site-rules

As I said, either it stops, or temp bans are being dished out.

Y I Man wrote:
Now some of you might not have a problem with it, but unfortunately we do.
Site rules:

No racism, sexism, homophobic or otherwise vulgar language will be tolerated.
Disobeying a Moderator or Admin can result in you being disciplined by the Admins, up to and including being kicked from the site or temporarily/permanently being banned.
No advertising of other sites that include forums.
If instructed by staff to do something, you are to comply. Failure to comply with Moderator or Admin instructions will result in punishment.

https://www.606v2.com/t1019-site-rules

You've taken the responsibility and made the effort to set up the site and you've every right to govern it as you see fit. So far I think it's a considerable success and I'm not headed anywhere soon so you must be getting a lot right. I would presume to make only two points:

(a) I only hope that some of your PM's tell some posters to grow a pair in addition to the inevitable PM's which tell other posters to stop being rude &c..

(b) If you are a parent you'll know only too well that sometimes a serious situation can develop from something trivial because when you started dealing with a minor infraction you did it in a way that could lead to your authority being questioned if the child (errant poster) does not back down and it's too late to build in a reasonable escape route.

time please wrote:

Jarvik wrote:If a moderator is at their wits end on a forum as generally well-informed and articulate as this then expectations are unrealistic. Moderation should be about measured facilitation of lively debate - so what if there are some spiky characters, some wums. Things sometimes get a bit personal - big whoops. For my money, and as a moderator myself, I think some of the language used in the moderation recently, some of the frustration obviously felt, suggests an inappropriate approach.

I'm not saying less moderation needed, just to be realistic about the nature of internet forums.

Jarvik. The vast majority of the time this forum is a nice mix of personalities. While Lydian and Positively in particular make some valid points about how debate has got a little stuck lately, the other posters complaining really want a fan site where there is consensus of sentiment and opinion, and some of them, I believe belong to such sites so when they make the trip across here, they have the opportunity to experience a different type of forum - one where there is often little consensus - I think they need to decide which site they enjoy frequenting the most, and if they enjoy participating in both then learn to celebrate the differences between them - don't try and make them all the same. I laughed at BB's parody on Mark II of this thread - so many posters missed the point; it's great to have a straight article like that written by certain posters, but we would all leave very quickly if every poster wrote something so saccharine all the time - we have newspapers for sporting news, this is a forum for peoples' opinions. I think it was bb who once wrote that it was not opinion that was wrong on this board, it was the intolerance of opinion, and I wholeheartedly agree with him. In short, I come on here expecting to disagree with points of view, I don't want to see myself just mirrored back at me, and I accept that people will have different ways of expressing their beliefs. It would be great to see articles by Lydian or Positively, and I am sure you would both get lots of very good responses to your posts, and that you are both intelligent and humourous enough to deal with any not to your tastes pretty well!

Well-put as ever tp. I have no problem with debate and opinion, and it is unhealthy to be too thin-skinned. Similarly, it is unwise to tie your own emotions in with your favourite player to the extent that you cannot tolerate a dissenting voice about them. I get the impression that some posters live vicariously through their favourite player. Passion is great, but we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.

On the article front, I acknowledge the gauntlet you have laid down and will try to live up to your generous billing. My main gripe was that each and every article seemed to heading the same way but it is down to me to help change that I guess!

Positively 4th Street wrote:

time please wrote:

Jarvik wrote:If a moderator is at their wits end on a forum as generally well-informed and articulate as this then expectations are unrealistic. Moderation should be about measured facilitation of lively debate - so what if there are some spiky characters, some wums. Things sometimes get a bit personal - big whoops. For my money, and as a moderator myself, I think some of the language used in the moderation recently, some of the frustration obviously felt, suggests an inappropriate approach.

I'm not saying less moderation needed, just to be realistic about the nature of internet forums.

Jarvik. The vast majority of the time this forum is a nice mix of personalities. While Lydian and Positively in particular make some valid points about how debate has got a little stuck lately, the other posters complaining really want a fan site where there is consensus of sentiment and opinion, and some of them, I believe belong to such sites so when they make the trip across here, they have the opportunity to experience a different type of forum - one where there is often little consensus - I think they need to decide which site they enjoy frequenting the most, and if they enjoy participating in both then learn to celebrate the differences between them - don't try and make them all the same. I laughed at BB's parody on Mark II of this thread - so many posters missed the point; it's great to have a straight article like that written by certain posters, but we would all leave very quickly if every poster wrote something so saccharine all the time - we have newspapers for sporting news, this is a forum for peoples' opinions. I think it was bb who once wrote that it was not opinion that was wrong on this board, it was the intolerance of opinion, and I wholeheartedly agree with him. In short, I come on here expecting to disagree with points of view, I don't want to see myself just mirrored back at me, and I accept that people will have different ways of expressing their beliefs. It would be great to see articles by Lydian or Positively, and I am sure you would both get lots of very good responses to your posts, and that you are both intelligent and humourous enough to deal with any not to your tastes pretty well!

Well-put as ever tp. I have no problem with debate and opinion, and it is unhealthy to be too thin-skinned. Similarly, it is unwise to tie your own emotions in with your favourite player to the extent that you cannot tolerate a dissenting voice about them. I get the impression that some posters live vicariously through their favourite player. Passion is great, but we shouldn't take ourselves too seriously.

On the article front, I acknowledge the gauntlet you have laid down and will try to live up to your generous billing. My main gripe was that each and every article seemed to heading the same way but it is down to me to help change that I guess!

Hi Positively . I think there has been quite a bit of taking ourselves too seriously, and I agree that some posters do seem to live vicariously through their favourites which does lead to hyper sensitivity.

On the article front, I guess it was a bit of a gauntlet, but I have complete faith that you and Lydian could 'mix it up' a bit and provide some discussions for us all to sink our teeth into

I agree with you TP, but there is a constant mistaken opinion that personal insults to other posters or players, player bashing and polarizing posting is beneficial to healthy conversation. It isn't.

I do like to argue my point now and again, I see nothing wrong with that, if we all agreed it would be very boring, but there are ways to convey ones opinion without being disrespectful to member or player.

That is something I moan about on here as I'm sure you know, a little rib tickling is fine by any standards, but there has to be a line where the Admin draw it.

Its their site. not ours, so they run it as they see fit. We all agreed to the rules when we signed up, its no use slagging the rules off now and trying to bend them to fit each posters private agenda, this is a public forum, not one by invitation only.

I don't see anything to complain about today Jubb, so maybe we should all move on rather than trying to squeeze a last drop out of the argument?

Neither do I think that anyone is disputing that the Founder and the Moderators have the final say on how the forum is run.

Sorry, I didnt realise there is now a limit on the amount of time allotted to arguing a point. You've been very vocal about your feelings quite a bit on here.

Don't know why you're taking my post so personal though, I haven't said any of this in regard to your posting habits. I'm just reiterating something that YIMan has said and I agree completely with his stand. I think you'll be one of those that will say its my right to express my opinion.
That is what this thread is all about, putting down markers to what we feel the forum is here for. I'm sure the Admins will look at what's been said to gauge the overall feeling and frustrations of its members and may be a useful tool to further change the way it works in the future.

But I would like to think we are all adult enough to know the limits when posting on a public forum.

There isn't a time limit - argue and prescribe to your heart's content, I have just indicated my desire to move on and not rehash the same old again.

I am certainly not taking anything personally - I am just expressing, as I said above, that I am done with this particular argument after, as you say, contributing to it (at length) what I felt I wanted to and being familiar with your point of view and that of other posters.

I would like to say something on this.

As we all know as tennis fans, the season is coming to a close. So it is only inevitable that some posters will repeat themselves again and again in a bid to prevent thumb twiddling and turning to other interests.

More to the point that admin are trying to clamp down on articles that seem to provoke posters into taking opinions personally. Now some will argue that they warned admin ages ago about posters leaving and that now that has happened, it is almost like a U-Turn on site rules and principles.

Now I am not so sure as to why grown up individuals would want to stir up things by writing articles to cause annoyance.

This year I have seen it all. Conspiracy theories, All you need is lungs, Weak era's, Alledged doping, Cheating. When they have been challenged, instead of opinions being shared, embraced, accepted or compromised, it has either been your right or wrong. Opinions are not right or wrong. It is based on 50% fact and 50% conviction.

With what posters are left, I only urge to allow common sense to prevail. No more player bashing or stiring up other posters. Let's debate sensibly and above all else respectfully.

LK I thought that u moved to MTL

Anyways good to see that u r still around. And I havent seen no clamping on 606v2 so far. It is a more open sort of discussion forum and moreover few of my favs including tenez, bogbrush, laverfan post here.

Legend - good to see you back, hope you won't desert completely?

It is not that I don't understand poster's concerns but I lose sympathy with a group of posters who tend to only appear on contentious threads and then proceed to lecture everyone on their behaviour without contributing positively to at least a couple of interesting threads on the boards today.

The forum could be better - but it is up to ALL posters to make it so, and constantly whinging about other posters is as destructive and irritating to many as posters being needlessly antagonistic and rude to other users of this board.

It is self righteous tone of some. It seems that their raison d'etre is to complain, report and foe incessantly, which seems a little childish and unnecessary - either help to contribute by starting good threads or do something that doesn't cause one so much angst!