Hook gets the nod

First topic message reminder :

Wales team: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); George North (Scarlets), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Cardiff Blues), Shane Williams (Ospreys); James Hook (Perpignan), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons) Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).

Replacements: Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Paul James (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).


After only 5 minutes of rugby at 10 in this RWC, James Hook takes the reins in the biggest game in Wales history, since the last one.

I guess we'll see how good a captain Warburton is when Hook gives away a couple of interception tries in the 1st 20mins.

You can but hope eh?

His done it before, Hook that is.

He'll want to win his shirt back and he'll force it to much.

Nah, hes been amongst the new calmer cooler team set up too long for it not to have rubbed off................

Not if he thinks he won't be playing in the final, if they win

I had Wales down to win this semi, but think France will edge it now. Priestland was the missing piece in the Welsh jigsaw that allowed them to step up this WC. Jones is similar enough to keep a team on a high proceeding, but Hook (although a very skillful individual) doesn't bring the best out in the players around him and allow the team to operate at its best.

except when they won the grandslam with him at 10, then he was world class of course

Agreed.

Jones = Final
Hook = brave effort guys but no cigar.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:except when they won the grandslam with him at 10, then he was world class of course

Wasn't the same group of players around him and wasn't the same required patterns of play. Hook's style and intuition doesn't get the best out of this team.

Don't agree. I think Hook will do fine. He'll have been told to keep it calm and not to try it unless it's on. Like you say he'll want to have a good game but he will know that if he forces it he'll play poorly.

Unfortunately, when hook thinks ''its on'' its not on for the team ,its on for hook to have blinder( alley that is!!) I hope he just kicks everything over the posts, and passes to someone else for the rest of the game, thats all he needs to do.

gavstar wrote:Unfortunately, when hook thinks ''its on'' its not on for the team ,its on for hook to have blinder( alley that is!!) I hope he just kicks everything over the posts, and passes to someone else for the rest of the game, thats all he needs to do.

Personally, I hope he wins the game for us, as he has done several times in MOM performances from 10 already. If you think Roberts is going to bosh through Rougerie and pals like he boshed through Darcy and O'Gara, you are deluding yourselves.

Priestland has done well for us but we also need to remember he has done a few mistakes himself.
Fiji game for instance he lost the ball in contact a couple of times and also missed touch more than once but his kicking between the posts was exceptional.

Despite what some (presumably in West Wales) seem to think - Gatland isn't going to change the tactics of the last 3 years just because Hook is back at 10.

He's there to kick it as far as possible and pop up passes to Roberts and JD2.

The big advantage in playing Hook is that Medard, Clerc and the other one will be running it back from 30m further down the pitch than if Stephen Jones was at 10.

As long as hook kicks/distributes correctly and doesn't crab JR out especially off first phase, then i think his ability to exploit broken play will help us counter the French who will want to slow everything down and kill our tempo. If ever the adage about rugby being won in the forwards was true this is it.

Hook is an intelligent player and a huge talent. With Warburton, Phillips and Roberts on top of their games, he'll know he doesn't need to try and force anything/run sideways and he'll be under strict instruction not to (and to throw passes of 2m and less only!)

This is there for the taking now (the semi, not necessarily the whole thing).

Win the next game and win it well anything could happen.

Hook has not shone this rwc, lets hope the urge to shine doesnt overcome him and lose us the game.

I really hope hook does the business for THE TEAM, if he starts running towards jamie before he takes another two 'jumpsteps' before he passes. we've had it. I wish I had more confidence in the guy to play like priestland, and not his usual game.

Not any posts on this site have convinced me he will abandon his
game for the sake of the team. Can he do it, not sure, wish I was, we've had such a great rwc 'til now.

Just heard tv bulletin 'this is james hooks chance to shine' dear oh dear, this is not what we want. None of the team are glory hunters now.

What a fantastic selection.This lays down to France our intent.We are coming at you.SJ would have been a conservative selection and I applaud WG for his boldness.
We have gone as far as we hoped for so,what the hell,lets give it a rip!Superb!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who finds fault should be ashamed.Never did like puritans.

RhysP has played structured, conservative rugby. I dont hear anyone complaining about his performance, he has freed up others to do the hard yards, done his job, quietly, efficiently, unselfishly performed for the team., as has everyone else.
There are no 'stars' our captain is brilliant and does his job, quietly, efficiently. Wales are a team, not individuals wanting to shine for themselves------hopefully.

This is the first selection Gatland has made on reputation rather than form. Hook has been rather poor this world cup, missed some relatively easy kicks at goal and a very soft attempt at a tackle allowed SA to score their first try.

He does not have the concentration levels to play 10 and tends to play for himself rather than the team. I would have started with Jones and had the option of bringing on Hook if a shake up was needed in the last 30 mins.

If any of Hooks supporters want an example of everything that is wrong with Hook's play at 10. Look at the video of his last start against France in this year's 6 nations!

Up until this selection I thought Wales by 10 points, sadly now I think France by 10 points.

Seagultaf we should not judge this side on how we played in the 6N Hook was not the only one to have a bad day at the office in that particular game.

I trust Gatland on this, if he thinks Hook is the better option then it's his call to make.
Perhaps Gatland feel we need to take risks to win this game, maybe slow and solid (Wellies) wont beat the French in his eyes.

Gatland also likes Mind games so you can bet Gatland has told Hook it is his last chance to cement the 10 jersey because next season he will be in France and out of sight to an extent, so he needs to make a positive impression.

I was bewildered by some of the comments above until it dawned on me that "Seagultaf" is almost a perfect anagram (in Welsh) of

"Stephen Jones's mum"

I agree with most people- it would have been great if Priestland was fit and able to play. Given that he's not, Gatland's gone with Hook... fair enough- neither him or Jones have featured much in the World Cup so far.

So basically Gatland's gone with what he's seen in training. Everyone is talking about Hook being able/ unable to bring the best out of the guys around him, and whether or not he will make a mistake that could cost Wales the game. But, given how well Wales have been playing as a team so far, and the confidence with which they have been playing, surely it's as much, if not more a case of the guys around Hook bringing the best out of him.

Hook is obviously going to be relishing the chance to play at 10 in a World Cup semi, especially given that it is his preferred position (even though he has played well at both 12 and 15 too).

To me, Wales seem to be playing with a composure I've not seen in a Welsh team before. Hook will undoubtedly want to impress at 10, but personally I think his priority will be playing to the plan that Gatts & co decide on, and playing his role in that plan and in the team as well as he can.

I think we can expect to see the same maturity in Hook on Saturday as we have seen in the rest of the team throughout the tournament so far. With an added side of flair if & when it's on.

3.31 into this video will probably explain why he has gone with Hook
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=10955/video.html?v=2054914

It's just after the I can smell the burger van try.

Cymroglan wrote:3.31 into this video will probably explain why he has gone with Hook
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=10955/video.html?v=2054914

It's just after the I can smell the burger van try.

So his memory doesn't go as far back as 2010 against France or 2008 against the Boks then?

“We identified James as a weakness before the game. We could tell there is always a doubt in his mind when he is in attack….So we used our wingers as a front-line defence to push hard on him. As we came forward, the space closed down and his options became limited. The intercept happened and it was pretty comfortable.” - Dave Ellis

"It's one of the strengths of my game to try things like that and I'll never stop" - James Hook

radelven No I don't think any sensible coach would select a side on their form in 2008 or 2010.

There's a difference between form and proclivity

And you will find faults with any player if thats what you are looking for.

Jones = final???
The last time Wales won a game with Stephen jones at 10 was in the 2010 6 nations. Of the last 8 games jones has started. Wales have lost all 8. Is it just coincidence that Roberts has started firing with a new 10?

On HERsH's comment. 2 interceptions thrown in the first 20. He's done it before. When??
Whenever I read criticism about hook. It always comes back to the defeat in Paris, but if any of the posters on here actually watched the ospreys towards the end of last season, theyd have seen hook come in and be the calming influence and controlling player that dan biggar isn't. He was moved from centre to 10 against the dragons and nearly turned the game and turned a lose into a victory in auroni which gave the ospreys a play off place.

Cymroglan wrote:And you will find faults with any player if thats what you are looking for.

So better to concentrate on the plusses then (rather than raising intercepts), like Wales scoring 4 tries in the last 20 mins that Jones came on for against Fiji, or the 7 they scored when he was on the pitch against Namibia.

What form has Hook shown this tournament?

Jones is a good player but this Saturday I personally would rather see Hook start at 10.
Well if you are going to bring up intercepts it was Jones pass that resulted in the try for Namibia.

Radelven.
You're right Stephen jones was marvellous in the Fiji and namibia games. To think he stumbled onto the pitch. Running in his usual decrepit style and put the finishing touches to 2 games that were already in the bag. If hook had cone on we'd have lost both games!!! What would we have done without him?!?!
What's hook done?? Not a lot. He hasn't played at 10 (his preferred position)!

Why are wales arguing about this. Why does it always come down to rivalries. Let's go with what gatland has done and get behind hook.

manofgwent wrote:Jones = final???
The last time Wales won a game with Stephen jones at 10 was in the 2010 6 nations. Of the last 8 games jones has started. Wales have lost all 8. Is it just coincidence that Roberts has started firing with a new 10?

False, he started the Namibia & Italy games this year, so of the last 3 games Jones has started they've won 2. 5 of the 6 loses before that were all against SH sides (Hook has never won starting against a SH side). Of the last 3 games Hook has started at FH they've also won 2.

manofgwent wrote:Radelven.
You're right Stephen jones was marvellous in the Fiji and namibia games. To think he stumbled onto the pitch. Running in his usual decrepit style and put the finishing touches to 2 games that were already in the bag.

He started the Namibia game, Priestland put the finishing touches to that one. Have you been paying attention to the games?

Cymroglan wrote:Jones is a good player but this Saturday I personally would rather see Hook start at 10.
Well if you are going to bring up intercepts it was Jones pass that resulted in the try for Namibia.

I didn't bring it up, the only reason I raised Hook's intercepts was because of your "3.31 into this video will probably explain why he has gone with Hook" post, highlighting Jones' as to why he wasn't selected.

Yes and that is why I put it there do you have a better reason ?
Do you not believe that something like that would have gone unnoticed when they make their selection.
But I do doubt if anything that happened outside this world cup would have influenced them.

You're right he played away against Italy. So prior to the WC he'd won 1 from 9 starts at 10. Not all against SH opposition. We've lost to France, Ireland and England in that time. In fact in the last couple of years he hasn't taken any decent scalps.
As for hook not beating a NH team. Stephen jones hasn't exactly done that on.z regular basis and he's had a lot more practice. Also. Aren't we playing France? Are they now a SH team?

Cymroglan wrote:Yes and that is why I put it there do you have a better reason ?
Do you not believe that something like that would have gone unnoticed when they make their selection.
But I do doubt if anything that happened outside this world cup would have influenced them.

It's fine that you raised it, you accused me of raising intercepts, when I was just providing a counterpoint to your original post.

I presume you mean 'wouldn't have gone unnoticed' or "Do you not believe".

They should certainly take everything a player has done during the tournament into account, which is why I said that there were considerably more positives to Jones' performances so far, whereas Hook showed very little form in his outings by comparison and has only had 3 mins match practice at FH

I raised it because it happened in this world cup I certainly would not have raised it if it had happened a few weeks or months ago.
Hook's injury against South Africa would probably explain why he has not played that much but obviously he has done enough in training to warrant selection.
You seem to think that our selectors have made a mistake.

manofgwent wrote:You're right he played away against Italy. So prior to the WC he'd won 1 from 9 starts at 10. Not all against SH opposition. We've lost to France, Ireland and England in that time. In fact in the last couple of years he hasn't taken any decent scalps.
As for hook not beating a NH team. Stephen jones hasn't exactly done that on.z regular basis and he's had a lot more practice. Also. Aren't we playing France? Are they now a SH team?

No, you completely missed the point. I was accounting for the number of loses by the fact that the majority of them were against SH sides, which were match ups that Hook (and indeed most FHs) hasn't faired any better in, so blaming Jones as the reason for the losses didn't have much credence.

You're still wrong on his wins though, prior to the WC (though I don't see why you should negate the Namibia match if you're considering most current form playing with the current team, it's the most relevant, reeks of selecting the data to match your opinion) he won 2 of his 9 starts at FH, with 5 of those losses being against 3N sides and a further loss being in a 'friendly' 2nd string against the Barbarians. If you want to slant the data more to what you are trying to suggest about Jones, you should reduce the set to his last 8 matches prior to the WC, which he only won 1 of.

radelven I tried to come up with a reason why they went for Hook but obviously you believe I'm way off the mark.
Can you then explain why they selected Hook over Jones ? and will your explanation just be based on speculation like mine was.

Cymroglan wrote:I raised it because it happened in this world cup I certainly would not have raised it if it had happened a few weeks or months ago.
Hook's injury against South Africa would probably explain why he has not played that much but obviously he has done enough in training to warrant selection.
You seem to think that our selectors have made a mistake.

Yes, Wales stand a great chance of making the final and I'd like to see them succeed. I feel they've gone for Hook based on his myth and that due to the legend past incumbents Wales tend to favour a 'hero' at FH rather than someone who is less stand out but makes the team tick better. Priestland was stumbled upon due to injuries, but was the perfect fit and has brought the best out in the team. Jones is more similar to Priestland, is the only other player that has had decent game time at FH this tournament and has shown he can maintain what Priestland has lead in those appearances. Now for their biggest match in decades they're reverting to Hook who didn't look great when he's played (I presume he looked good in training beforehand as well), hasn't played in a competitive match at FH for months and has only had a handful of games there over the last couple of years.

When a good start is critical, I don't think they're doing themselves any favours at all.

But Jones did throw a pass that was intercepted and resulted in a try for Namibia.
Personally I don't think Jones has done much wrong but I doubt if any of our 10s would have looked out of place against Fiji or Namibia.

What does Hook do? that is the question you should ask yourself if you are a fan of Hook. he kicks the points over the bar--------yes-----job of the no. 10

controls a game-- no (job of the 10)
passes to the centres without the centres getting mashed--no---(job of the 10)
runs direct after receiving the pass from 9 before he passes quickly to the backs---no---job of the 10

runs into space,taking players with him on his shoulder, stays strong in the tackle,offloads ---no----job of the 10

runs away from supporting players---yes--- why?
sees a gap, runs into the gap, gets tackled, usually turned over---yes---why?
throws passes anywhere in field any time he's near the touchline ---yes---why?
kicks to the opposition and they run it straight back at us---yes---why?

he's been picked because steven jones is not fit enough for 80.
unless hook has been brainwashed into playiny like priestland we've lost it.

ieuan evans was asked on tv tonight about the way Wales have been playing, and now the effect of losing priestland.
he said losing rp is a blow to the side, no question,our rugby is great to watch, but make no mistake the plays, moves are structured, choreographed, my concern is whether hook can concentrate and stay with that game plan. That was his answer when he was asked about the choice of hook at 10.

I hope he can do it , not for him but for the team. hook supporters want him to be the star, one poster said ' i hope he wins it for us.' why are you looking for one hero

We haven't won a game against the top 6 teams (Tri-nations & France, England, ireland) since February 2009. He monopolized the shirt during our long losing streak when we were finding impossible to score tries.

The only Welsh fly half to throw an intercept in this world cup is Stephen Jones, against a team of amateurs too. He has history there - he threw the intercept that lost us the England game in 2010. So strange to see the worries about interceps focussed on Hook.

The difference is that Hook's intercepts tend to come from high-risk passes, whereas Jone's come - as in the Namib game - from standard passes that are just too slow and obvious.

This argument is getting tired now - it's basically roundheads against cavaliers. We've got a great team out on Saturday, the most attack-minded possible. France have a great backrow, but now they have a lot to think about. They have to close down Phillips, Hook, Roberts and North coming into the line. Lots of options.

C'mon, Wales!!!

Cymroglan wrote:But Jones did throw a pass that was intercepted and resulted in a try for Namibia.
Personally I don't think Jones has done much wrong but I doubt if any of our 10s would have looked out of place against Fiji or Namibia.

One negative amongst more positives. There are more negatives and uncertains regarding Hook. France aren't playing well, now is not the time for speculation. Hook at FH with this team in this tournament is exactly that.

The negatives with Jones are that we lose when he plays. As mentioned, you have to go back to Feb 2009 for a win against a top 6 nation.He was poor against England and Italy this year.

Hook played 10 against Scotland, Ireland, France, England (warm-ups) and Argentina. He was either good or very good in all these games except France. We won them all except the France game too.