Honest Debate, was this a great RWC for Wales considering who they beat and who they didnt?

First topic message reminder :

Irrespective of what style the Welsh team played in the RWC, or how much the team has improved in the last year or so. Was this really a great RWC for Wales?

Of course a semi-final appearence is something to note. However this is marred by who Wales beat and who they didnt and at what crucial times.

Even slight losses are bad, especially matches teams were in a position to win, rugby after all like all sport is about winning. Wales are not a team like Samoa who if they run a classic superpower close, the galliant loss should be noted and heralded as the maximum performance the team could of put in.

Wales should and could beat teams like SA, Aus and certainly Fra.

My point is that, if you ignore the structure of the competition, Wales's record is unspectacular. Wins over Namibia (worst team in RWC); Samoa and Fiji (sides which in reality are the SH's version of Italy but worse) and Ireland in a 1/4 final.

Only one of those victories is remotely special. Ireland like most home nations teams are usually equally matched, so a victory is hard, but not rare. The only thing that puts the victory over Ireland into anything other than 'another match, another year' was that it was knockout rugby.

However, when you consider that victories for NH teams over SH are rare, rarer still for Wales, they failed to get a result that would of gone down in history. Once again Wales failed to kill the game in an important fixture, all three games they lost at this RWC should of been won, but they choked (leaving aside the passionate debate on the france game).

In the cold light of day it is business as usual for Wales. They beat three minowes, beat a side of their size and lost against the big boys. I don't want to see Wales just losing to big sides, I want to see them win and win trophies so that it matters. There have been far too many 'brave' loses against big sides and scant victories.

What do people think?

True England,were a circus act.

Wales came to play in a rugby tournament.

Di-di diddle di-di dit di-didle.....

Where's the feckin bucket of confetti then?

Feckin amateurs! Call 'emselves clowns? Not a feckin clue.

Gratuitous use of the little fellas (and I'm not talkin Abadare tic-tacs), so no cigar for me, rank un-clownish - no mistake, and for that reason, I'm ooot.

aucklandlaurie wrote: True England,were a circus act.

Wales came to play in a rugby tournament.

You don't say?

Does 606v2 have a psychiatric referral facility?

I most definitely do say.

aucklandlaurie wrote: I most definitely do say.

ignore PJ, he is pre menopausal for the next 74 years

aucklandlaurie wrote: I most definitely do say.

Oooooohhh no you don't! (think of the kids - Christmas is coming).

Gatts wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: I most definitely do say.

ignore PJ, he is pre menopausal for the next 74 years

How very dare you, the last time I bled for 5 days was after a stag do in Barmouth June 2001, and I deserved every drop.

Cockend. X

In answer to the question, making the semis made it a good tournament for Wales, losing two games they should have won (SA and France) stopped it from being great. They exceeded expectations in getting to the semis, but should have put France away.

Good, not great IMO

If in some strange extended Autumn series Wales played the 7 games they just had with the results they had, then you would say it was a mediocre series. But World Cups are different beasts and to navigate their way to the semi-final is no mean feat.

But I've got to agree with a few before, if this is the peak for this Wales team, it's got to be a little disappointing. They've got to kick on from here and, above all show a bit of consistency.

With the core age of this Wales team the potential to kick on is very high. Some young players have really turned up on the biggest stage and are generating some excitement.

The next 6 months will be important for them and if results go their way then i can see them developing into a very good team.

Lloyd Williams looked absolute class when he came on yesterday and Wales looked remarkable better with his quicker distribution.

England are the Clowns ??
While Wales came to play Rugby?? Hmmm, So England, in Rugby terms beat Wales, France ET AL and won the 6 nations, and at the World cup win 4 out of 5 Games, topping their group before losing to France, while Wales (who came to play Rugby) snigger, chortle and guffaw, lost 3 out of 6 matches, and this is a Great, not just a good world cup for them!!!

So it must be great at the pinnacle of Ranking 7 th , while England are 4th when they act like headless chickens, or clowns, so you'd better hope that England don't get their act together, because a good Rugby year for England engenders far more, than a good year for Wales!!

english warrior wrote:England are the Clowns ??
While Wales came to play Rugby?? Hmmm, So England, in Rugby terms beat Wales, France ET AL and won the 6 nations, and at the World cup win 4 out of 5 Games, topping their group before losing to France, while Wales (who came to play Rugby) snigger, chortle and guffaw, lost 3 out of 6 matches, and this is a Great, not just a good world cup for them!!!

So it must be great at the pinnacle of Ranking 7 th , while England are 4th when they act like headless chickens, or clowns, so you'd better hope that England don't get their act together, because a good Rugby year for England engenders far more, than a good year for Wales!!

snigger chortle guffaw...stop clowning around!


I love that you use the fact that you were knocked out of RWC sooner and therefore have a greater win rate...classy.

If Wales had beaten Australia today then it would have been a great world cup considering they drew to Fiji this time last year.

The matches they did lose weren't thumpings. Eg against AUS they gad 3 easy points because Paul James was called for not rolling away - watch it again and you'll see he was no where near - same goes for Toby who was blown for hands in the ruck but the replay showed he was no where near.

Do I care - not really as Wales should've played better.

My point being that previous world cups plucky Wales would throw the ball around get n front but ultimately get a fair hammering by full time - England and new Zealand 2003 for example.

I take these posts regarding wales as a sign that other nations are starting to notice and give respect.

IF you take into accunt matches Pre-RWC,plus the RWC matches and judge them by your expectations then answer.
Wales played to a very good standard,beat England,Argentina[pre RWC],Samoa,Fiji,Ireland ran SA,France,and Australia close.
In 2007 they failed to get out of there group,this year they reached the Semi-final.
THAT is progress you have found a good young Number7,and FH,with better goal kicking it could have been better.
Perhaps Leigh Half penney is the best option apart from Priestland,the New Ball .
Caused lots of problems for the goal kickers,and grounds like Wellington are notoriusly difficult.

Before this RWC, Wales had run the top sides very close and gave themselves a chance to win. They play the NH sides on a regular basis but the SH sides much less so. You could say that their narrow losses means nothing has changed.

But here is where I think Wales have improved.

1. Their fitness. They seem able to last 80 minutes now instead of 60.

2. They have players who can get across the advantage line. Roberts, Faletau have been examples of players able to break the line and get Wales front foot ball. (Having said that, I still think there needs to be more continuity between getting quick ball and using it effectively. Too many times Phillips stopped to have a look around which allowed the defensive line to be set. There should be more hunger for that ball from the players coming through and more awareness of the gaps.)

3. They seem to have thrown away their aimless kicking game and kept the ball in hand. Wales are more dangerous when they´re plugging away to break the line rather than kicking and chasing. If you have a good pack, use it to take in defenders which allow gaps to be exploited out wide.

4. There is a good balance of youth and experience. The young guys look sharp and hungry. The senior players are providing a solid base. The future looks good.

The big problem for Wales remains finding a space for Hook. He´s not a fullback nor is he a flyhalf but he can play both these positions. With Roberts and Prisetland playing so well, fullback seems the only place but I´m not convinced.

Winning against the SH sides would give Wales even more belief. They showed this RWC they don´t fear anyone but in order to put genuine fear into the opposition you need to beat them fairly regularly. Wales must carry on this good form now into the 6N. Some average results there will undo all the good work they´ve done in NZ.

Ps. The last time Wales ran SH teams this close was autumn 2007, they then went on to get a grandslam.

Now that would really annoy the wummers

As stated elsewhere

"This morning's match goes to prove that 15 New Zealanders are marginally better than 14 Welshmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Seagultaf wrote:As stated elsewhere

"This morning's match goes to prove that 15 New Zealanders are marginally better than 14 Welshmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

So you're saying Tonga are much better than both of N.Z. and Wales.

Good point leftshoulder!

Not sure how much the French players actually wanted to win that game though?

PS. Does that make Tonga a better side than England?

Seagultaf wrote:As stated elsewhere

"This morning's match goes to prove that 15 New Zealanders are marginally better than 14 Welshmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I'm not convinced the 8th best side in the world would have got close to New Zealand today.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:As stated elsewhere

"This morning's match goes to prove that 15 New Zealanders are marginally better than 14 Welshmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

So you're saying Tonga are much better than both of N.Z. and Wales.

I am sure that if the Tongans were given as many games against the best in the world, as much coaching/time together and basic funding as New Zealand, Australia, SA, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, France or Italy they, and the other PI teams would be a lot higher in the IRB rankings.

They along with many others played some great rugby and got some fantastic results.

No I really don't think they would as they don't have the player base to consistently be that good.
My comment was only made to highlight the stupidity of the Seagultafs statement.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:No I really don't think they would as they don't have the player base to consistently be that good.
My comment was only made to highlight the stupidity of the Seagultafs statement.

I think Seagul was joking mate...!

But I disagree with you about the PI nations, if their game had even half the financial wealth of the top tier nations they could easily be a lot higher up the rankings.

We talk about "Tiers" and the "gaps" between say the Tri Nations, the NH nations, behind that is the PI Nations and those sides are getting good enough that they can easily compete with the NH teams, even beat a tri nation as Samoa proudly did.

Which is brilliant for rugby. I hope that in the next RWC we see a PI team get further than the quarters.

Tonga or Samoa would have had they not had two other very good teams in their group.

Rugby is expanding into a more global game.

I know he was but so was I,it's hard to convey that in text I suppose.

I think Tonga,Samoa and Fiji will occasionally be able to put out strong teams but overall I think their population is too small for anything other than occasional success.

It is good to see them getting closer like Samoa have but remember last WC it was Fiji who made the quarters and then scared the crap out of S.A.

They haven't been able to reproduce that as their stars players have fallen away.I think one of the 3 could be strong at different times but I can't see for example Samoa making the step up and then staying there.

I honestly think Italy will be next team to make a major breakthrough and then stay strong,they have the population and they have a sporting culture.

Lads and Welshpeople i've just seen the IRB rankings in the Times and it seems that as a result of this 'Great' Welsh world cup, they have gone down from 7th to 8th !!!

How low would they have been had they not had a Great WC, it just doesn't bear thinking aboot.

english warrior wrote:Lads and Welshpeople i've just seen the IRB rankings in the Times and it seems that as a result of this 'Great' Welsh world cup, they have gone down from 7th to 8th !!!

How low would they have been had they not had a Great WC, it just doesn't bear thinking aboot.

If wales get to at least the semis in every WC they can be ranked 100th as far as I care.

Why are you obessed with Wales?

slartibartfast wrote:

english warrior wrote:Lads and Welshpeople i've just seen the IRB rankings in the Times and it seems that as a result of this 'Great' Welsh world cup, they have gone down from 7th to 8th !!!

How low would they have been had they not had a Great WC, it just doesn't bear thinking aboot.

If wales get to at least the semis in every WC they can be ranked 100th as far as I care.

Why are you obessed with Wales?

Some people just have issues that manifest themselves in very peculiar ways.

I'd rather Wales' WC than England's.

The stranger statement is that it was read in The Times.

Why even rise to the bait...small things please small minds and if an English fan is intellectually challenged enough to compare England's RWC with Wales RWC then that person is clearly deranged and deserving of sympathy.

I suppose with the Wales team at least they have rugby to talk about, they need something to fill the gap.

True, we can keep on talking about the great Welsh losses for a few weeks more if you want

Why feed the trolls?

The record books wil show Wales made their second semi final in 2011.

The manner in which they got there won't matter.

biltongbek wrote:The record books wil show Wales made their second semi final in 2011.

The manner in which they got there won't matter.

True, most people will forget that they played some of the best rugby in the tournament to get there and instead will look at the record books showing they lost 3 games

Peter you are being facicious.

They only lost one to get to the Semi final. that was good going.

If you gave me the choice of losing one to avoid Lawrence and progress to the semi final I would also take it.

biltong, are your constant complaints about Lawrence tongue in cheek or do you really feel badly treated?

It's getting nearly as boring as those who (wrongly) think Warburton shouldn't have got a red card.

SafeAsMilk wrote:biltong, are your constant complaints about Lawrence tongue in cheek or do you really feel badly treated?

It's getting nearly as boring as those who (wrongly) think Warburton shouldn't have got a red card.

Safeasmilk, feeling badly treated doesn't describe it, raped by the village idiot is more apt.

But I am over it and it will be my "creative muse" for the next four years. after all it has inspired me to new hights.

That's how greyghost got started, biltong

Has GG left of his own accord or finally got a life ban?

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:biltong, are your constant complaints about Lawrence tongue in cheek or do you really feel badly treated?

It's getting nearly as boring as those who (wrongly) think Warburton shouldn't have got a red card.

Safeasmilk, feeling badly treated doesn't describe it, raped by the village idiot is more apt.

But I am over it and it will be my "creative muse" for the next four years. after all it has inspired me to new hights.

Just don't go all Greyghost on us mate

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:biltong, are your constant complaints about Lawrence tongue in cheek or do you really feel badly treated?

It's getting nearly as boring as those who (wrongly) think Warburton shouldn't have got a red card.

Safeasmilk, feeling badly treated doesn't describe it, raped by the village idiot is more apt.

But I am over it and it will be my "creative muse" for the next four years. after all it has inspired me to new hights.

I thought you beat Wales?

SafeAsMilk wrote:That's how greyghost got started, biltong

Has GG left of his own accord or finally got a life ban?

I think it was a mixture of both, i am really starting to miss him.

The difference between myself and the Greyghost is how we approach things.

I don't attack individual posters.
I have diplomacy on my side.
Sarcasm is fine tuned wit disguised as retoric.
And at the end of the day, I am right about my number one public enemy (Bruce Lawrence and his late guidedog.)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:biltong, are your constant complaints about Lawrence tongue in cheek or do you really feel badly treated?

It's getting nearly as boring as those who (wrongly) think Warburton shouldn't have got a red card.

Safeasmilk, feeling badly treated doesn't describe it, raped by the village idiot is more apt.

But I am over it and it will be my "creative muse" for the next four years. after all it has inspired me to new hights.

I thought you beat Wales?

Kiwireddevil wrote:Just don't go all Greyghost on us mate

No worries there, I am just a one man crusade against another man. It could however change if you actually brought him onto this site. I would not be able to resist in taking him apart piece by piece.

Perhaps converting every minute of that match into a year of psychological abuse. It will be like a cancer slowly eating away. think of Samuel L Jackson in the movie Unthinkable

I think this issue with GG was that he would never back down on the slightest thing or admit he was joking. The continuous bombradment of the same jibes supported by often made up "facts" made it very hard to have any kind of discussion about any issue when he was involved and know when he wa joking or when he genuinly believed some of the things he said.

The guy has a sharp wit, knows his stuff, does a good job of exposing some of the BS people spout and myths, and had some good one liners. He did pop up breifly uinder another guise, Im sure we'll spot him again sooner or later.
I certainly miss him more than the genuinly insane MikeyPhil from the true 606.

Has GreyGhost gone what a shame

"was this a great RWC for Wales considering who they beat and who they didn't?"

at the end of the day they won nothing but at least they got out of the group this time, so yes it was a great RWC for them even if they have dropped two places in the rankings .

For Wales to take the next step they have to have a team to win the HC, as there players need exposure to real pressure

TGG is alive and kicking, if the Ben Dirs 'Team of The Tournament' blog on the BBC website is anything to go by. He is in top form.

goneagain wrote:
TGG is alive and kicking, if the Ben Dirs 'Team of The Tournament' blog on the BBC website is anything to go by. He is in top form.

I hoipe he gets the role as Mr Claypole in the new rent-a-ghost movie.

english warrior wrote:England are the laughing stock of World Rugby ??

Well, my little Welsh minnows, that may be true, but where does that leave you, as we have won a World cup, beaten SH opposition home and away on 14 consecutive occasions and won the 6 nations this year, oh, and also beaten Australia home and away, and Wales haven't. Oh dear, oh dear, you've beaten ireland and now you are World beaters. Oh well 10 out of 10 for optimism!!

Please dont associate this naughty naughty boy with proper England fans.
FFS this post was about Wales not England!!!!

hahahaha! The word "t*sser" was replaced with "naughty naughty boy"!

I chuffing love this site!