Can England win it in 2015?

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87 New Zealand (New Zealand)
91 Australia (England)
95 South Africa (South Africa)
99 Australia (Wales)
03 England (Australia)
07 South Africa (France)
11 New Zealand (New Zealand)
15 England (England)?

What do they need to do from grass roots up to give their players the best chance?

i think flood will come good.

Flood nails nearly every kick, he just doesn't get picked.

That goes back to Chris's point about Johnson's conservative selection policy, going back to (what he thinks are) the tried and trusted rather than the younger, better alternative.

well we all know that jw will not be playing in 2015, so either way we will have flood or a younger alternative

You might not have Johnno selecting the team either!

sirtidychris wrote:haha i suppose so, i just feel that johnson developed a team that had beaten australia, france and wales in the last year, that team had flood and hape at 10/12 and palmer/lawes at 4/5. Corbisero also impressed at loosehead for large parts of those games. We then get to a RWC 1/4 final against france and instead of playing the same team that beat them a few months earlier, he sticks with misfiring johny, plays flood out of position and sticks with a tighthead thats been getting smashed all tournament on the loose. He then only has 2 backs on the bench so when his random experiment goes wrong he has no contingency to change it !

Deacon played the whole Six Nations when we beat France and Wales. Shaw played in the Twickenham warm up when we beat Wales. Lawes has only played 5 games for England in 2011, and England were only good in one of them.

Away vs Wales - Lost 9-19
Away vs Ireland - Won 9-20
RWC vs Argentina - Won 13-9
RWC vs Scotland - Won 16-12
RWC vs France - Lost 19-12

He was great against Australia and South Africa (one of our few bright sparks that day) last Autumn, but we've played very well without him this year.

"England no longer have a pack that can bully other teams, nor an outside half who can nail his kicks.."

Yeah i think the problem is we seemt o be trying to change our style to a more open game...using more athletic players....however we're not adapting to it (be it coaches etc) and we seem in limbo...ie reveting to a power pack game...but with a pack more suited to open rugby...ie Croft at 6 etc.

Did I hear Flood has been out in...we interrupt this joke as it is quite clearly inappropriate...lin?

Geordie, that's got to be one of England's biggest issues? Bags of
talent coming thru reflected in results all the way up the age groups,
but where does it all go?

I think the truth is we've only relatively recently become consistently good at age-group level. We're only just starting to see the benefit of that in the senior side and GP. Historically we weren't much good at junior rugby.

I think finding some leaders on the pitch might help. I really thought Moody was the guy but he wasnt on best form and England only seemed to be able to change their strategy at half time. Still - hes not there anymore.

England were so positive a few months ago. There were some unfortunate injuries but stuff did go wrong at the RWC. Personally I hope MJ stays but I hope he has learned a lot, especially about discipline around the squad. Would be nice to see new blood in the coaches though. It feels like things got blown out of all proportion but having a royal (by marriage) there - one who was off form also - caused too many problems.

Also I hope JW calls it a day now. He was always a much better player with guys around him telling him what to do. As a 'senior' player he doesnt seem to take good options.

Taking an overview of this thread, I am genuinely surprised that such an open question has not seen anybody come up with a significant restructuring plan of the domestic game in England.

And if England are to win at home they need to sort out their relationship with the press though i think the jingoism might be too much to resist for the majority during a home campaign

Ackford. Cleary Reason and Gallagher on England RWC 2011 in the Telegraph:

Shambolic, plodding, confused, depressing, charmless, Crass, ill-disciplined, self-deluding, underwhelming, unloved, Constipated, Crass, Charmless, Crude, Cringing, Rugby players have shocker, shocker

Hmm, so not great then?

Eustace H Plimsoll wrote:

Geordie, that's got to be one of England's biggest issues? Bags of
talent coming thru reflected in results all the way up the age groups,
but where does it all go?

I think the truth is we've only relatively recently become consistently good at age-group level. We're only just starting to see the benefit of that in the senior side and GP. Historically we weren't much good at junior rugby.

Am I right in thinking that improving our age-grade rugby has in recent years been largely Rob Andrew's responsibility? I'm surprised there aren't more people on here saying what a good job he's done...

Although in fairness it might be a post hoc, ergo propter hoc scenario. Just because we got good at something doesn't necessarily mean he had anything to do with it. It could just be that the academies are starting to hit top gear.

I never thought I'd see 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' on 606v2!

Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

Of course England can win it unless the current England management stay in charge.

As long as the correct decisions for the development of English rugby are made we'll be fine.

Glas a du wrote:Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

It's Latin, not Greek. And I think he meant "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" rather than "post hoc...". Anyway...

I've just realised that if England DO win in 2015, and don't face Oz or NZ in the final, we will be the most successful country in RWC history with 4 finals and 2 cups .

EnglishReign wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

It's Latin, not Greek. And I think he meant "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" rather than "post hoc...". Anyway...

I've just realised that if England DO win in 2015, and don't face Oz or NZ in the final, we will be the most successful country in RWC history with 4 finals and 2 cups .

Could be either depending on how you word it. Could have been "AFTER Rob Andrew was appointed to do this etc"

tomathy wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

It's Latin, not Greek. And I think he meant "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" rather than "post hoc...". Anyway...

I've just realised that if England DO win in 2015, and don't face Oz or NZ in the final, we will be the most successful country in RWC history with 4 finals and 2 cups .

Could be either depending on how you word it. Could have been "AFTER Rob Andrew was appointed to do this etc"

Yeah that's true actually, I just thought I'd take on the intellectual snob role. You can sometimes get away with it on the internet, maybe not in this instance

EnglishReign wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

I've just realised that if England DO win in 2015, and don't face Oz or NZ in the final, we will be the most successful country in RWC history with 4 finals and 2 cups .

But if SA/Aus/NZ win it then they will be the most successful country in RWC history with 3 wins. If NZ win it they will also be the first country to defend it. If Wales win it they will be the first country outside the top 4 (IRB ranking ) to win it.

nganboy wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Blydi public school boys and their fancy dan Greek quotes.

I've just realised that if England DO win in 2015, and don't face Oz or NZ in the final, we will be the most successful country in RWC history with 4 finals and 2 cups .

But if SA/Aus/NZ win it then they will be the most successful country in RWC history with 3 wins. If NZ win it they will also be the first country to defend it. If Wales win it they will be the first country outside the top 4 (IRB ranking ) to win it.

How do you know that ? Wales were ranked 4th going into the semi finals of RWC 2011, so who's to say they won't be 4th or higher if they got to the final of RWC 2015 ?