Alvarez = Another Cheap Champ!

Not written in direct disrespect to Alvarez but his likely crowning as another 'World' Champion this weekend is as frequently discussed another example of all things bad in modern boxing.

Pac and Marg both fight at a weight where one has never fought at (or ever intends to fight again at) and never did fight at and the other was a disgraced boxer who had only a few fights at the weight and none significant and it's sanctioned by the apparently prestigious WBC for their LMW belt.

Pac as everyone could have predicted simply wanted the easiest and quickest route to have another weight to be called a champ at and subsequently vacated without defending (think he's only ever defended in 3 of the weights he's been a champ in!).

The WBC came under fire for not allowing the fight to be a world title fight so what do they do to improve not only the WBC's but boxing image............do something even worse and agree for two boxers less deserving than Pac and Marg to fight for the title?!?!?!

The whole thing just baffles me and just another example that being a World Champion doesn't mean you are the best or even top 5 in the division.

Also if Alzarez wins which most expect and Golden Boy obviously do hence getting Hatton to fight him, what top class opposition do you think he'll fight?

I guarantee his next two fights will be against weak fighters or at least only fringe contenders and no one ranked 6th or below in rankings, which goes against the grain of what champs are meant to do, I expect champs to have a tough and then an easy fight and so on which a lot do but so many fight bum after bum (Bute a prime example) it just gets dull.

Thoughts?

This has been done enough on other threads, and anyway, he isn't a champ yet.

I know Scott,

The thing that made me think about the article and forgot to mention was after Ricky Hatton's statement saying Matt should walk if Alvarez is over 150ibs, shortly after the weigh in gets changed from 24 hours before the fight to lunchtime today i.e. giving Alvarez more time to put weight on!

I'm in total agreement.

In about 2 years time, he will be fighting Amir Khan in a GBP in-house 'super' fight.

Mexican organisation just handing a title to a Mexican fighter.

The previous owner of the WBC 154lb title won it at a 151lb catchweight against an unranked hand picked opponent, so that shows that it's worth jack all anyway.

is he any good this alvarez or another ortiz just hyped up by de la hoya's outfit?

Not bad for a 20 year old, not good for someone with so many fights or a world champion. Get's hit far too much and don't see much versatility.

Alavarez has been touted as a world champion prospect at welterweight and light middleweight for a while now He was campaigning at LMW most recently, claiming and defending the WBC Silver title, before looking set to fight Senchenko for the WW strap. To be honest, he doesn't look as though he would be comfortable at the weight. But, now the title fight against Hatton is on.

In the WBC division, Alvarez is currently ranked at no 1. He's still fairly young, despite a seemingly long career in terms of number of fights. While, a prospect , he doesn't look brilliant and is somewhat of a rough diamond. But what he does works. Wouldn't be surpised if we are still hearing his name in years to come. On the net its been widely commented that Alvarez has ginger hair and freckles, but he needs to move up in class and for his boxing to be the talking point if he wants to go anywhere.

I didnt realise that this fight for the title is at a 150lb catchweight (apparently alvarez has failed to make weight and must drop 1.8lb). What an utter joke the WBC are. First they let manny and marg contest it at 151, two unranked fighters, manny then drops the belt after 100 days and they let Alvarez & hatton have it at 150.

Ive got no problem with alvarez getting atitle shot, he's 35-0 and beaten some half decent opponents in his recent fights, but at a 150 catchweight? Like there arent enough bloody weight classes as it is. And against matt hatton, a welter weight journeyman who's never fought at world level and - i'm gonna skip the pleasantries here and be honest - is completely cack. Why not just give Alvarez the belt and skip the formality of an actual fight - I mean thats what they want anyway right?

Why dont they just change it to the super light middle welter catchweight title, seeing as nobody wants to actually contest it within the full 154 limits? just choose who they want to have the title, someone popular like manny or mexican like alvarez, pick a weight that suits them, pick an easily beatable unranked opponent and bobs your uncle (or Jose in this case). The WBC are now the biggest joke in boxing, and that is saying something.

Tis a big lot of love sacks, to be sure. Throws every other WBC belt's validity into doubt.

This fight is being shown on sky sports 2 by the way, delayed coverage at 6:30pm on sunday evening.

I'm not sure if this is worse than the WBA having 2 or 3 champions at each weight or not. It makes the WBO look good!

Unbelievable. A world title fight between some useless brit and an untested mexican tweenager, both of whom have never fought at the contested weight.....with that weight not being the correct weight for the division they are contesting the belt for? WTF is going on with boxing?

This kind of bs makes Manny's LMW title seem almost legit.

Just read that Alvarez came in...(drum roll please)...OVER THE WEIGHT! Yes, he weighed in at 151.8, and when given time to try to lose the excess came back at 151.4. Hatton clearly being set up as the fall guy so the WBC can play pass-the-parcel with the belt...

BALTIMORA wrote:Just read that Alvarez came in...(drum roll please)...OVER THE WEIGHT! Yes, he weighed in at 151.8, and when given time to try to lose the excess came back at 151.4. Hatton clearly being set up as the fall guy so the WBC can play pass-the-parcel with the belt...

What a joke. I hope Hatton ktfo of him. Well I can hope cant I?

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Just read that Alvarez came in...(drum roll please)...OVER THE WEIGHT! Yes, he weighed in at 151.8, and when given time to try to lose the excess came back at 151.4. Hatton clearly being set up as the fall guy so the WBC can play pass-the-parcel with the belt...

What a joke. I hope Hatton ktfo of him. Well I can hope cant I?

I'd like that, I really would, but there's nothing in the way this has been arranged to suggest that anyone involved (other than Hatton's team) either expect or want Hatton to win. That the belt has been put on the line at short notice too only smacks of someone (namely Alvarez's promoter, and the WBC) looking for a way to boost the next big thing.

azania wrote:Unbelievable. A world title fight between some useless brit and an untested mexican tweenager, both of whom have never fought at the contested weight.....with that weight not being the correct weight for the division they are contesting the belt for? WTF is going on with boxing?

Alvarez has fought at 154 a number of times, that's why when it was touted for 147 people thought that would aid hatton as Alvarez would struggle with the weight. As it turns out he's not even been able to make 150. As I said before, Alvarez is only 20 and is 35-0, and has beaten some half decent competition such as N'Dou, Jose Miguel Cotto & Baldimor along the way. His record is better than khans was when he got his title shot for example (think khan was 22-1 at the time).

My beef is that it's yet another catchweight for a title, when there are already so many weight classes anyway. And that it's against a 147lb euro journeyman. Let's forget Matt hatton is rickys brother (which is the only reason he's been chosen for this - the name association) and be honest about him; he's useless and he's gonna get destroyed. It's a Mexican organisation wanting to gift a Mexican fighter a title, so they've picked a bum at a catchweight for him. After the farce of mannys 100 day reign at 151lb this just further devalues the legitimacy of this WBC title, showing they will manipulate ratings and weight classes however they please to give the right man the strap and to hell with the honest pro's who've fought their way up the rankings and actually deserve a crack at a title.

SBS

Not only hasn't he made weight he can't weigh more than 160 at 3pm this afternoon (their time).

He's already drained enough, i'm really really tempted to have a cheeky deep sea diver on Hatton with all this weight Love sacks...

coxy0001 wrote:SBS

Not only hasn't he made weight he can't weigh more than 160 at 3pm this afternoon (their time).

He's already drained enough, i'm really really tempted to have a cheeky deep sea diver on Hatton with all this weight Love sacks...

Hatton is a pillow puncher though and Alvarez likes getting into brawls and has never looked like being stopped.

A further weigh in? This is getting worse.

Scottrf, here's the story

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/128073-breaking-news-alvarez-fails-to-make-weight-again-but-fight-will-go-on

I know Hatton's a pillow puncher, but all this rubbish with what a fighter can weigh at a certain point before a fight has to stop. The guy 'could' be drained, at some point by the law of averages it's only a matter of time before we witness something tragic.

Was quite looking forwards to this fight, has been soured by all this weight stipulation rudey poo now though.

Yeah, an additional weigh in is dangerous. They may need to look at weigh ins because putting on a stone between weigh in and fight is crazy, and will only lead to stories like this. The guy is probably a Super Middle.

So he didn't make the weight, I presume he had to forfeit 30% of his purse? * Ah I see, 20%, Hatton should have pushed for 30.

Thing is scott, what's more dangerous? A guy being allowed to rehydrate to a natural weight and being bigger than the other guy or a guy coming into the ring possibly drained? The likes of Armstrong etc were routinely outweighed, it's part and parcel of boxing and the guys sign knowing full well they'll be giving weight away etc

Setting limits on how much they can rehydrate is dangerous IMO.

And he forfeited 20% of his purse apparently... Apparently might have had to make further concessions as well but no-one's sure what they are

A guy coming in drained would be worse. The ideal would be long term monitoring so people fight at the right division. The BBBofC do it right, monitor weight from further out so people can't cut so much.

That article makes sloppy errors though. They say he was only able to lose 0.4 pounds from 151.8 but came in at 150.4, presumably 151.4.

I heard a rumour Alvarez has to part his hair from the opposite side to usual too. Also that his shorts can't contain any primary colours. True story.

I know you normally follow this coxy - has it swung the odds much.

Burns went from 1/50 to 2/9 at William Hills recently.

To be honest Scott i haven't seen the odds for this fight, if you gave me £50 i'd still back Canelo but i wouldn't be quite as confident.

Having just checked he's 1/12 and the points/stoppage odds are rubbish too. Hatton's 6/1, naturally the bet on him would be points.

Alvarez can't come in higher than 160 either so he may be weakened by that. He just managed 151.8 for the weight in! I wouldn't really bet on this fight because a) It may not even happen b) Alvarez could come in weakened. My gut feeling is alvarez by knockout but you never know how he is going to handle being drained.

There are so many unusual circumstances being 'bolted-on' to this fight, I'm amazed it has any credibility left. It's almost a lose/lose for either guy.

I'm confused by this, Alvarez is with GBP so I don't see where Hatton has any bargaining power to stipulate anything

Hatton has power because he can refuse to fight. It was agreed at a catchweight of 150, the greedy WBC added their belt afterwards. Hatton is only doing what the contract says.

BoxingFan88 wrote:Hatton has power because he can refuse to fight.

And lose a career high payday. He will get a beating and pick up £100k or whatever his purse is, to ease his pains. The whole affair is shoddy and I hope someone beats this new WBC pet asap.

This fight is a farce to be honest.

I hated the fact that Pacquiao fought for a title at a catchweight; but at least he has established and proved himself as arguably the finest fighter in the sport.

Alvarez's promoters are pulling this pony with a kid who is almost totally unproven, is just beginning his career and barely fought at the weight. It is exactly the kind of rubbish that makes casual fans give up on boxing.

Unless he is carefully matched for the next two years or so; I feel you will get your wish, Azania.

Again Azania you missed the point, what bargaining power does Hatton have to stipulate monetary penalties or ring weights?

None; although he could pull out. That's pretty much the only power he has.

imperialghosty wrote:Again Azania you missed the point, what bargaining power does Hatton have to stipulate monetary penalties or ring weights?

The only power Hatton has is to refuse to fight. Correct? If he does pull out, he loses a career high payday. Correct? Now tell me what points I have missed?

samevans1 wrote:Unless he is carefully matched for the next two years or so; I feel you will get your wish, Azania.

Absolutely farsical. How can the world champ be carefully matched? As soon as he is the champ, he should fight the next best. As someone alluded to, this is what makes more people stop watching boxing and move to the UFC.

Yep. That is what will happen though, don't you think?

Oscar De La Hoya said today. "I truly believe he will be bigger than me." Only physically Oscar, only physically.

samevans1 wrote:Yep. That is what will happen though, don't you think?

Oscar De La Hoya said today. "I truly believe he will be bigger than me." Only physically Oscar, only physically.

That is what IS happening imo. In the UFC, the best fight the best without fear of losing. Its well marketed as such. Now someone tell me if Alvarez is the best 154lber available and what he has done to warrant such a lofty position.

If Alvarez moves to Top Rank or DKP, will Oscar still think the same I wonder? I've seen the kid fight once (against the brother of a ranked fighter - cant recall) and he didn't look that special to me. Only thing special about him is being a red haired mexican.

Agreed. He might be as popular in Mexico as a young De La Hoya was in America; but he has about a tenth of the talent. At best.

I've heard talk of monetary penalties and ring weight limits, how does Hatton have any power to stipulate such things?

That is the point you were missing

The UFC argument is getting really tired. Boxing used to be like UFC, if UFC does become as big as boxing it will go the same way. UFC can't draw the big crowds and casual fans like boxing can. Boxing has far more history. Hopefully the people in boxing will change this before its too late. Remember in the last week we have heard news that haye klitchsko and pacquiao mayweather have a chance to go ahead, hopefully its true.

He doesn't. I get what you are saying Ghosty. He could pull out; but he would be denying himself a career high payday and probably his only ever shot at a 'world' title. So he is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Uhhh because they signed the contract for 150, and there is probably clauses in it that have penalties if you ignore it.

samevans1 wrote:Agreed. He might be as popular in Mexico as a young De La Hoya was in America; but he has about a tenth of the talent. At best.

I reckon his popularity is due to his red hair and being well promoted.

imperialghosty wrote:I've heard talk of monetary penalties and ring weight limits, how does Hatton have any power to stipulate such things?

That is the point you were missing

No impy. Hatton doesn't have any power to stipulate anything. The only power he has is to withdraw from the fight. Do you agree? I am not missing anything. I actually agree that he (hatton) is relatively powerless. Do you agree?

Since when has being a ginger made you popular? It was pretty much the opposite when I was at school...

BoxingFan88 wrote:The UFC argument is getting really tired. Boxing used to be like UFC, if UFC does become as big as boxing it will go the same way. UFC can't draw the big crowds and casual fans like boxing can. Boxing has far more history. Hopefully the people in boxing will change this before its too late. Remember in the last week we have heard news that haye klitchsko and pacquiao mayweather have a chance to go ahead, hopefully its true.

This isn't about boxing v UFC. Boxing wins all the time. I cant see MMA being as big as boxing worldwide. But the UFC is promoted as the best fighting the best. Its brilliantly marketed and whatever anyone says, its taking viewers away from boxing.

If Alvarez becomes "world champ" and is then carefully matched, it becomes farsical imo. Once a champ, you have to fight the best. I can imagine the WBC giving him a mandatory with a walking corpse next.

samevans1 wrote:Since when has being a ginger made you popular? It was pretty much the opposite when I was at school...

lol. Its different. I mean a red haired mexican? Next you'll be saying that USA has a black president. Oh hang on.....