( Merged ) Cotto-Margarito II - now off

Who wins the rematch?

One thing we know about Margarito is that against Mosley, it's the only fight we know about in which we know with 100% certainty that he didn't have loaded gloves. Pac also being an exception.

Margarito in the same way.

I'm going for Margarito, too, another late stoppage. Think he's just got Cotto's number, to be honest.

Interesting but why? Doesn't it speak volumes that against Mosley, he looked awful with hardly any power? His comeback fight in Mexico was a poor performance in which he quite frankly looked shot. And against Pac, he was absolutely destroyed despite the fact he was 165lbs and Pac was 148lbs?

Cotto. Both are shot. Cotto less so. Will dance his way around Margarito rather than engage. And Margarito won't have his hands strapped up with bricks and cement this time either.

coxy, you reckon Cotto is shot? I don't think he's at his very best but he seems to be a more mature boxer now reverting back to the good footowork he once used so well. I def think Marg is worse off considering his fights with Williams, Cotto, Mosley and Pac.

Margarito has never been a power puncher and Mosley has a great chin. He’s an accumulation puncher. The weight helped Pacquiao in that he was so quick, and he already had a sizeable speed advantage. I actually thought Margarito looked Ok in that fight.

I don't find fights difficult to picture... but this one is difficult, both men look spent, so the easier thing for me to establish is:

A. Psychologic edge
B. Wear and tear
C. Ability to adapt at this stage of their career

Cotto knows he was beat badly first time out. But he may find solace in that Margarito may have had his hands wrapped. The first 4 or 5 rounds were Cottos. BUT Margarito walked through the best Cotto had and this looked as though it was breaking Cottos heart.

Cotto doesn't work well under pressure after 4 rounds, he HAS to plant his feet to punch, he can't fight out of a situation on the back foot, when he does, he's swarmed. Margarito proved this.

Both fighters have had pretty nasty beatings from Pacquiao of late, Margarito was busted up more than Cotto. Maybe thus has had a psychological effect on him whereas Cotto has gone on to win a Jnr Middleweight title.

Personally my heart says Cotto wins this time out, my head says its still 50/50.

Captain Lucas wrote:Interesting but why? Doesn't it speak volumes that against Mosley, he looked awful with hardly any power? His comeback fight in Mexico was a poor performance in which he quite frankly looked shot. And against Pac, he was absolutely destroyed despite the fact he was 165lbs and Pac was 148lbs?

I'd imagine that Margarito was hardly in the correct state of mind to box effectively against Mosley, knowing that he was likely to be bang in trouble due to what had happened in the locker room beforehand. Besides, it was Mosley's last hurrah - I don't think anyone saw that kind of performance coming from Sugar Shane.

I don't think Pacquiao boxing rings around Margarito has any bearing on this fight either, to be honest. He brutalized Cotto in a similar fashion, don't forget. A buzzsaw like Pacquiao can stay on his toes all night and slip in and out; Cotto simply can't. He tires and caves in under pressure, going in to survival mode. I just see Margarito falling behind on points before walking him down and overwhelming him.

As a side note, I don't think we can write off the result of their first bout purely on suspicions. As I've said before, most people tend to think that juse because Cotto was marked up, it means that Margarito's gloves MUST have been loaded that night. Personally, I think it may have had more to do with the fact that Cotto spent the last six rounds of that fight blocking punches with his face. If a marked up face is the only proof we need to decide that Margarito had illegal wraps, then Pacquiao must have had illegal wraps and barbed wire around his gloves.

Margarito has 27 KOs out of 38 wins. Roach said something interesting in the build-up to Pac-Marg in that he felt there was something different about Marg's punches against Cintron and Cotto as opposed to when he fought Paul Williams. Look at the Cotto fight, his punches seemed very hard in that fight, you could actually hear them! Compare it to the Mosley fight and spot the difference.

Why didn't he knock him out then? He was connecting round on round, don't see why they need to be loaded to do that type of damage.

'Felt there was something different' is rubbish. Bet he didn't have the same feeling before Marg was caught.

I don't buy this talk that Tony was affected by being caught before the Mosley fight. It's a fight. If anything, he would have fought with fire to prove himself in the ring. As for Pac 'brutalized Cotto in a similar fashion' - hardly! Minus the knockdowns and the first half of that fight was competitive. Even some of the rounds Cotto lost, he still fought competitively. Margarito hurt Pac but he was the one who was well and truly 'brutalized'. I just don't see how anyone can give a confirmed cheater the benefit of the doubt. Who hits harder? Mosley or Margarito? I'd say Mosley. Funny how Mosley couldn't dent Cotto's face yet Margarito looked as though he'd beat him with a bat. The better man will be revealed soon enough. I just hope that for the sake of boxing (and mankind) that it's Cotto - a far better man - and fighter.

Question: do Margarito's punches appear heavier against Cotto as opposed to when he fought Mosley?

'Minus the knockdowns and the first half of that fight was competitive.'

Well, the knockdowns happened, so no need to minus them, and at a stretch I'd say the first third of third of the fight was competitive. After that, Cotto took as sustained a beating as you're likely to see in a title fight. I don't think the beating Margarito took from Pacquiao was any less brutal or decisive than the one Cotto got from him at all.

Anyway, back to matters at hand. As I said, Cotto simply can't handle relentless pressure; Margarito took his heart first time out, and he was fighting in reverse for the second half of the Clottey and Pacquiao bouts. I like Cotto, and pound for pound his career outranks Margarito's, but styles make fights. I just think Margarito has his number - can bully him, not all that much slower (not sure why some paint Cotto as a speedster of sorts, he isn't) and has a mental edge over him in all probability.

Margarito late TKO would be my take on it, though I'd like to be wrong.

Captain Lucas wrote:coxy, you reckon Cotto is shot? I don't think he's at his very best but he seems to be a more mature boxer now reverting back to the good footowork he once used so well. I def think Marg is worse off considering his fights with Williams, Cotto, Mosley and Pac.

He wouldn't cope with a world level boxer anymore i.e. Martinez. He's not totally shot, hence why i said 'less so'. But he's not at 100% anymore, how much he's gone by is open to interpretation and isn't really definable other than he's not the same boxer when he fought Mosley etc a few years back

Captain Lucas wrote:Question: do Margarito's punches appear heavier against Cotto as opposed to when he fought Mosley?

Did Hearn's punches appear harder against Duran than Hagler?

Margarito is a) made of granite and b) never stops coming forward. Loaded gloves or not, it was these attributes that did for Cotto in the first fight. At 154 I don't think Cotto has enough of a dig to trouble marg, and is also past his best now. Marg is also a spent force, but I think he's just a bit too big and too tough for Cotto and will grind him down for a late stoppage. Sincerely hope I'm wrong though - hope Cotto trains harder than ever and takes revenge with the fight of his life, but just don't see it happening.

This will be a good fight both guys will want to win Cotto will be looking for revenge and I hope he destroys the cheater but who will win? I think it will be close but Cotto will win on points

Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

Fists of Fury wrote:Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

But he did stop punching.

I would hazard a guess that Cotto will happily pivot off the back foot, landing at will all night long if nothing is coming back.

For the first 5 rounds Cotto laid a boxing clinic on Margarito - landing some devastating punches and shipping nothing in return.

We are told that Margarito was weight drained for Mosley - will he be weight drained against Cotto? Its at 154 so he has no excuse to be - as such his chin will work fine. However his output is the issue. Once he could throw 100 a round with ease, he can't do that now. If he does Cotto is in for a world of hurt. If not Marg is a walking chin asking to be hit.

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

But he did stop punching.

He was coming forward with the intention of getting his shots off, but manny has such fast hands and throws such high volumes of punches that marg was walking into a continuous torrent of shots that marg was prevented from throwing - its a huge deterrent. Cotto's hands are not nearly as fast and he's not a volume puncher. He also doesn't carry mannys power. I don't see that Cotto really has anything that will keep marg at bay. Cotto is the more vulnerable man in there - both physically (he's been hurt numerous times and is smaller) and psychologically (due to the first fight).

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

But he did stop punching.

He was coming forward with the intention of getting his shots off, but manny has such fast hands and throws such high volumes of punches that marg was walking into a continuous torrent of shots that marg was prevented from throwing - its a huge deterrent. Cotto's hands are not nearly as fast and he's not a volume puncher. He also doesn't carry mannys power. I don't see that Cotto really has anything that will keep marg at bay. Cotto is the more vulnerable man in there - both physically (he's been hurt numerous times and is smaller) and psychologically (due to the first fight).

So why was Marg's output rubbish against the Mexican road-sweeper he beat as a warm-up? Cos he wasn't punching back so much.

And Cotto does carry a lot of power at 154 - arguably more than Manny - however, Manny will hurt you more because he throws more punches.

You make a good point and I did consider that it may have been Manny's buzzsaw like workrate that turned Margarito into the walking chin. But Manny wasn't buzzsaw like - this wasn't a Cotto/Hatton/ODLH performance. And that Mexican wasn't throwing punches - so you'd hope for more from Marg.

Maybe he's aged and rolled down that relentless slope created by father time. He was on top of the mountain, once. Long ago - but he's halfway down it still falling now. (cue a mars bar for anyone who gets the literary reference)

oxring wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

But he did stop punching.

He was coming forward with the intention of getting his shots off, but manny has such fast hands and throws such high volumes of punches that marg was walking into a continuous torrent of shots that marg was prevented from throwing - its a huge deterrent. Cotto's hands are not nearly as fast and he's not a volume puncher. He also doesn't carry mannys power. I don't see that Cotto really has anything that will keep marg at bay. Cotto is the more vulnerable man in there - both physically (he's been hurt numerous times and is smaller) and psychologically (due to the first fight).

So why was Marg's output rubbish against the Mexican road-sweeper he beat as a warm-up? Cos he wasn't punching back so much.

And Cotto does carry a lot of power at 154 - arguably more than Manny - however, Manny will hurt you more because he throws more punches.

You make a good point and I did consider that it may have been Manny's buzzsaw like workrate that turned Margarito into the walking chin. But Manny wasn't buzzsaw like - this wasn't a Cotto/Hatton/ODLH performance. And that Mexican wasn't throwing punches - so you'd hope for more from Marg.

Maybe he's aged and rolled down that relentless slope created by father time. He was on top of the mountain, once. Long ago - but he's halfway down it still falling now. (cue a mars bar for anyone who gets the literary reference)

The roadsweeper was a comeback fight after about 18 months inactivity. Manny was throwing more than enough punches to keep most opponents at bay - certainly more than Cotto is likely to throw. Let's not forget that marg had manny hurt in the 6th and apparently left manny in pretty bad shape after the fight - which was more than Cotto managed.

I think this fight could be a case of who has declined the most - Cotto hasn't put in a great performance since losing to marg, and marg likewise since beating Cotto. They've both taken hidings from pacquiao, as well as one from mosley for marg and the beating marg himself gave Cotto.

I don't see that Cotto carries any major power threat at 154. He couldn't put a dent in marg at 147 so I don't see that much will change. He was able to out manoeuvre margs pressure 3 years ago and he's only got slower since then. He's also ditched Steward whereas marg has a decent trainer in Garcia. I detest marg, but I really don't think Cotto has the necessary tools to beat him. Hope I'm wrong.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:I think this fight could be a case of who has declined the most

That's the nail firmly hit on the head for me. I am suspicious that Marg has declined more than we realise - however - I would not be that surprised if I'm proved wrong

Cotto by UD.
I'm not convinced that Margarito is much higher than journeyman level now.

Cotto doesn't look big at 154 but his two fights there have produced 2 KO wins - just a thought.

Captain Lucas wrote:Cotto doesn't look big at 154 but his two fights there have produced 2 KO wins - just a thought.

Because one of his opponents injured his leg and the other broke his hand punching him.

Ha ha ha! Very funny mate!

I choose cotto purely on the fact that marg has probably declined more than him. Cotto may not be setting LMW on fire, but he is winning . Marg imo, cannot throw 100+ punches a round anymore. I also think that he can't close the distance as quick as he did last time around. He will keep coming forward, but he's not going to be able to do it with the same conviction. He is 33 now, and has had a long career of defending with his face and it will definately have an impact on him. I don't think cotto can take him out at 154lbs as he couldn't at 147 and tony's chin looks sturdy still. I think that if your took a power shot from manny at 147 and one from cotto at 154, i don't think there will be any difference, cotto was known for having heavy hands throughout his career also. Cotto however doesn't have the workload to do the same damage manny did.

Cotto got walked down and grinded down. At 154, his body may be able to take the shots better though as your punch resistance increases with weight generally. Cotto needs to move for the first 6 rounds, not take any punishment and not tire himself out, when the second half of the fight wears on marg will come good but cotto has to plant his feet land a combo then move. It will be hard for him but he has the skill and the determination to win this

I see it being a Cott UD. Margarito's looking more fragile than he did in the first fight. He's had the chin cracked by Mosley and Manny broke a facial bone os badly he almost had to retire.

I believe Margaraito was using the wraps in the Cotto fight and without them is less likely to grind Miguel down. Cotto didn't look physically imposing against Mayorga but outboxed a bigger, tough, game opponent. Mayorga may have been shot, but I don't see tony being in much better shape.

I wouldn't be surprised by a Margarito W though.

As much as I want Cotto to win if I were a betting man id still go with the Marg on a decision or late stoppage

Both are on the slide...depends who has more left!!!!

Margy's pummelling added to the rest he's taken may result in a shock Cotto win...

pickem this one....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Both are on the slide...depends who has more left!!!!

Margy's pummelling added to the rest he's taken may result in a shock Cotto win...

pickem this one....

No sitting on the fence. Who you going for Truss?

cotto decision...

El Tornado de Tijuana will batter Cotto again. KO inside 9

Hope the beating Pacman gave Margarito works to Cotto's advantage, so will go for a Cotto win by decision, could be an S/D.

He's fought with his mug for a long time Marg..Took a real beating off Manny....as did Cotto.......but I think he might be slightly more ringworn...

Hope he is..

If Cotto doesn't KO El Tornado de Tijuana inside 6 rounds, El Tornado de Tijuana will pound Cotto into the mat

Can't see anything other than a Margarito late stoppage again. Cotto has always had suspect stamina and the Manny fight showed that Marg can still take a beating and still be standing at the end.

My guess is a carbon-copy of the first fight, Cotto outboxes Margarito at first, but gasses again and Marg takes over, KOing him late. Hope I'm wrong though.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:

oxring wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:Very true SBS, against Pacquaio Marg was taking a fearsome beating, but not once did he stop walking forward.

But he did stop punching.

He was coming forward with the intention of getting his shots off, but manny has such fast hands and throws such high volumes of punches that marg was walking into a continuous torrent of shots that marg was prevented from throwing - its a huge deterrent. Cotto's hands are not nearly as fast and he's not a volume puncher. He also doesn't carry mannys power. I don't see that Cotto really has anything that will keep marg at bay. Cotto is the more vulnerable man in there - both physically (he's been hurt numerous times and is smaller) and psychologically (due to the first fight).

So why was Marg's output rubbish against the Mexican road-sweeper he beat as a warm-up? Cos he wasn't punching back so much.

And Cotto does carry a lot of power at 154 - arguably more than Manny - however, Manny will hurt you more because he throws more punches.

You make a good point and I did consider that it may have been Manny's buzzsaw like workrate that turned Margarito into the walking chin. But Manny wasn't buzzsaw like - this wasn't a Cotto/Hatton/ODLH performance. And that Mexican wasn't throwing punches - so you'd hope for more from Marg.

Maybe he's aged and rolled down that relentless slope created by father time. He was on top of the mountain, once. Long ago - but he's halfway down it still falling now. (cue a mars bar for anyone who gets the literary reference)

The roadsweeper was a comeback fight after about 18 months inactivity. Manny was throwing more than enough punches to keep most opponents at bay - certainly more than Cotto is likely to throw. Let's not forget that marg had manny hurt in the 6th and apparently left manny in pretty bad shape after the fight - which was more than Cotto managed.

I think this fight could be a case of who has declined the most - Cotto hasn't put in a great performance since losing to marg, and marg likewise since beating Cotto. They've both taken hidings from pacquiao, as well as one from mosley for marg and the beating marg himself gave Cotto.

I don't see that Cotto carries any major power threat at 154. He couldn't put a dent in marg at 147 so I don't see that much will change. He was able to out manoeuvre margs pressure 3 years ago and he's only got slower since then. He's also ditched Steward whereas marg has a decent trainer in Garcia. I detest marg, but I really don't think Cotto has the necessary tools to beat him. Hope I'm wrong.

Couldn't agree more SBS.

Sincerely hope that Cotto wins but am with you on this. Essentially, if Marg still has his chin and is able to get to Cotto, I think it's game set and match.

Margarito has a busted headlamp -- Cotto wins this one -- one way traffic for me.

Still cant believe Tony is allowed near a ring. Hope he gets (another) pasting.

Cotto's punches had little effect on Marg in the first fight at WW, his power is even more deminished at LM, But I fully believe that Tony was loaded up for the first fight, so I feel his punches won't break Cotto up.

Both are past prime, I'm picking Cotto by UD, If I had my wish it would be Cotto by a battering Tony to UD, but can't see it being a Cotto beatdown. More likley a Cotto boxing lesson.

I think Cotto will have the biggest say in how the fight goes.

If he decides to box then he'll win a clear UD with maybe a few scary moments however if he decides to brawl and mix it up then I think it'll be a similar fight to the first where Cotto's in control at first and then Mararito's swarming overwhelms him.

I think Cotto will want to prove something and trade with him a bit so i'm going for Marg TKO rounds 9-12.

Can Margarito still throw 100 punches per round? Can his face still take full-force blows? Does he still have punch resistance? Can he still produce those very hard looking punches as he did in 2008? We'll see.

obvious target would be his eye? I'm still of the opinion Cotto is a shell of the fighter he was pre marg.

I hope he wins though, and violently.

Margarito by ko again. I don't think cotto has the power to hurt him and marg will just walk right through him again. I want cotto to win though...

Dividing opinions, this one.

Going to agree with Scott, can see a similar fight and similar outcome, Cotto winning rounds, but taking punishment in doing so. Dont think Cotto has the explosiveness to keep Margarito off him all night.

Late Margarito stoppage for me.

Cheers

im looking forward to this fight more than anything else currently scheduled. My money is on Marg, i just think hes got inside Cottos head, but if cotto can withstand a bit of a beating in the later rounds and hear the final bell, he will surely take it on points, so gonna be interesting