Wales 6N squad and target!

Ok so from what we've seen from Wales in the World Cup and from the players left behind at the regions over the last 2 months and with some players due to come back from injury etc. over the coming weeks, who do you think should make the Wales squad atm and what size squad should Gats go for?

IMO we have always seemed to perform better when a smaller squad has been selected so i think a maximum of 32 players should be selected, i'd go with:-

PROPS: Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Paul James, Craig Mitchell, Ryan Bevington

HOOKERS: Matthew Rees, Huw Bennett, Ken Owens

LOCKS: Luke Charteris, Alun-Wyn Jones, Bradley Davies

FLANKERS: Sam Warburton, Danny Lydiate, Justin Tipuric

NUMBER 8s: Toby Faletau, Ben Morgan, Ryan Jones(RJ covering 4,5,6 & 8)

SCRUM-HALFS: Mike Phillips, Lloyd Williams, Tavis Knoyle

OUTSIDE-HALFS: Rhys Priestland, James Hook, Dan Biggar

CENTRES: Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams

WINGERS: George North, Leigh Halfpenny, Aled Bew, Tom James

FULL-BACKS: Morgan Stoddart, Lee Byrne

i think full-back is the position we're most worried about and a decision needs to be made whether Halfpenny remains there or whether we give some one like Stoddart a chance in the 15 jersey, also Chris Czekaj has been doing well at 15 for the blues and if he raises his game to the next gear he could come into contention

Alex Cuthbert has got the potential to get in the squad ahead of Tom James and if Gavin Henson finds some sort of form i think Gats will have him in the squad

similar squad that went to the world cup but with 5 new faces coming in and if Stephen Jones is playing well at the Scarlets he could yet make the squad

Wales need to go to the 6 Nations and set the target of winning it, after doing well in the world cup we need to back that up in the 6 nations and set down a marker that we're aiming to become a dominent force in world rugby
as the saying goes, aim for the stars and you may reach the top of the mountain!

What team would go into the competition (apart from Italy perhaps) not expecting to win it?

i dont think Scotland would really expect to win it either tbh

I don't think T James is anything more than a regional player and shouldn't be anywhere near the squad. To be honest, although people say he's been playing well the 2 games I've seen him play I've seen him butcher (or almost) tries by making the wrong decisions. I think I'd rather Fussell or Cuthbert (depending on if he keeps up his form). Would also have Tovey instead of Biggar, and Tovey can then cover FB as well.

I think it's too early for realistic expectations on where to finish, we could either win it or finish 4th very easily

This is yet another post where the author is actually fishing for compliments, seeking reassurance or attempting to attract praise for the team they follow. Its rather sad...

After the World Cup displays, Halfpenny needs to be looked at again as a fullback, a back 3 of Stoddart/Halfpenny/North could be fantastic, defensively thats strong, and theres no questions to be asked of them offensively - all have proved what they can do there. Lee Byrne/Tom James out of the squad, replaced by whoevers on best-form near the time (even if thats Tom James, Ill take him). Hughes to be used as a 13 (hopefully all season at the Dragons) to get a good look at what he can do there, but the future in the centres looks rosy.

I think it'll be a battle between Biggar/Henson(possibly)/Tovey for the 3rd OH place in the squad. Thats unless Steffan Jones has something to say down at the Dragons.

Otherwise, I'd have no real arguments, possibly look to include McCusker/Turnbull/Pretorius in the backrow in a slightly larger squad.

Ben Morgan's still a real will he/wont he.....

Bitter Beer wrote:This is yet another post where the author is actually fishing for compliments, seeking reassurance or attempting to attract praise for the team they follow. Its rather sad...

I don't see how the author is fishing for compliments on a Wales 6 Nations squad discussion aimed at creating debate between Wales fans.
No team goes in 'expecting' to win it. Perhaps their fans and media but the team wouldn't.

It will be interesting to see where Morgan decides to play - and if he can rediscover his 1st season form (and he's got comptition from Murphy down at the Scarlets) as I thought last season he looked in better form than Faletau.

Next few seasons I see the 10 battle being between Priestland, Tovey, Shingler and Jordan Williams with maybe Morgan if he can offset the size problem being in there. Unless of course Hook and Henson nail their 10 spots at club level and turn on the form.

fairplay bitter, you come across as just that. If you dont want to discuss the wales 6n squad and its realistic goals, just dont enter the thread, let alone post on it.

this board is being slowly over-run by english wums. and i direct that meaningfully and solely, at english wums.

mods please act, less this board become the waste that 606 was before it perished - the sole reason i never bothered joining the old 606 board was the amount of wumming.

Pot Noodle Miner wrote:Ok so from what we've seen from Wales in the World Cup and from the players left behind at the regions over the last 2 months and with some players due to come back from injury etc. over the coming weeks, who do you think should make the Wales squad atm and what size squad should Gats go for?

OUTSIDE-HALFS: Rhys Priestland, James Hook, Dan Biggar

Please explain.

well you know luckless that you have to find a place in the squad for Hook, because he brings that X factor, and on his day he can win you games single handedly!

Bitter Beer ... i dont see how, when i've named players either in the squad or as possible squad members such as Tom James, Chris Chekaj, Gavin Henson, Aled Brew, players who alot of people would'nt agree with being anywhere near the squad, what you're saying just makes no sense

Pot Noodle Miner wrote:Bitter Beer ... i dont see how, when i've named players either in the squad or as possible squad members such as Tom James, Chris Chekaj, Gavin Henson, Aled Brew, players who alot of people would'nt agree with being anywhere near the squad, what you're saying just makes no sense

I think you've hit the nail on the head and he probably meant it that way.

But before this topic goes off on a tagent and gets drawn into bitter insults, the Squad looks good, and our backs are very good - strangely the back row now seems to be the strongest part of the scrum (and who would have said that even 9 months ago) - with Faletau, Lydiate, Warbs, Turnbull, McCusker, R Jones, Tipuric, Navidi, Morgan, Powell (I still can't like him soz).

I'm just so glad that there seems no way back in the squad for Jon Thomas.

Also just realised no-ones mentioned Duncan Jones, he'd be a real asset to the team.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Also just realised no-ones mentioned Duncan Jones, he'd be a real asset to the team.

I was going to mention Duncan, but I'd prefer to get Bevs some more gametime, hes looked excellant in the loose and he can only improve in the scrum. He's a like-for-like replacement at loosehead for Gethin and I think this world cup has taught us to look to the future.

That said, i wouldnt be anything but happy for Duncan should he get into the 6ns squad, after all his hard-work getting back to where he is, he'd deserve it.

Comfort wrote:fairplay bitter, you come across as just that. If you dont want to discuss the wales 6n squad and its realistic goals, just dont enter the thread, let alone post on it.

this board is being slowly over-run by english wums. and i direct that meaningfully and solely, at english wums.

mods please act, less this board become the waste that 606 was before it perished - the sole reason i never bothered joining the old 606 board was the amount of wumming.

Quite funny really, because to know that you would have had to have repeatedly visited the old 606 to find out and having gone there, you would also have noticed that the worst offenders were predominently Welsh.

Please Bitter Beer comment on the subject at hand and who you think should be picked for the Welsh squad instead of trying to insult people

Cheers

case-rested.

I think with regards to the squad, I wouldn't have Lee Byrne anywhere near it anymore, and I'd definitely like to have a look at 1/2p at full back again.

Lock and TH are two areas that we really need to look at building strength in depth, as is fly half now that Stevo is on the way out. Really hope to see the likes of Tovey getting some more game time with Wales, even if only to develop them as back up options.

Wouldn't mind seeing Turnbull involved again. He can cover 4 - 8 and put in some cracking perfomances last season. Hope he can regain his form when he returns from injury .

Halfpenny's position at full back is cemented in my eyes. Byrne, Hook and Phillips may not feature in all 6 Nations games or any at all due to French club rugby commitments. That said I wouldn't select Byrne because he's too old and wouldn't select Hook on his recent performances. I got a feeling Mr Henson will be involved at some point or other.

Apart from Craig Mitchell, do we have any realistic TH's who could come into the Welsh set up to be developed?

I'm excited to see how Simon Gardiner does once he's back from injury because he was putting in performances beyond his years last season when called upon. He could be a real option in a couple of years time if he keeps developing.

Rhys Gill at sarries has looked good this season so far, not great, but decent, again quite impressive for his age.

Griffiths has never really done anything, rollerskates at the scarlets is an ever-looming question of when does he start turning in the performances we know he can be capable of. Never seen that much in Andrews at the blues, Yapp isnt a tighthead, let alone an international tighthead.

Gardiner has been in poor form so far this season, but has been picked in the Scarlets HEC squad. With Manu, Thomas and Edwards all playing better then him though he's really going to have to fight for his place. He needs to put in a heck of a lot of work in, but no doubting the guy's got talent.

Rollerskates.....well he's doing okay. Put in a couple of great performances early on this season but has averaged out again. Another one who needs to put a load more work in, and needs to watch his compsoure on the pitch. Has too many brain farts for my liking.

Mitchell needs to kick on from last season as well, but he's still definitely our best option behind Adam.

I think Halfpenny's position in the team is cemented but he is so good at either FB or Wing that he could slot in in either position depending on who else we've got to slot into the back 3.

How many games has Gardiner played this season (can't think off the top of my head) - thought R Thomas was ok for the last 2 games, but not really int level yet.

To be honest I hadnt even realised Gardiner was back, sort of says it all i guess.......

Yeah, Im hoping Mitchell can push on again, he was very promising last season and has surpassed all the other T/H competition despite missing that big period from the end of the last 6ns.

I really want to keep Halfpenny at FB and develop him, he has all of the tools. Defensive positioning, a howitzer boot, goal kicking from range, fearless, great under the highball, he doesnt really make mistakes, searing pace and brings balance to the backline whilst attacking through the phases.

If i was a Welsh fan, i would be in two minds about Hook. He does have that X-factor but he equally has that DOH-factor.

Right now i would'nt start him at 10 because i just dont think that his style matches that of the 15 man game. I would have him in the squad though as he can fill many positions.

But how well can he play in those positions, Billy? That would be my question. There'd be an argument for having Hook on the bench to come on as a last throw of the dice if a game's getting away from us, but even then, he needs to show some good form for Perpignan before he's involved in the national squad again. This is the beginning of a new four-year cycle; I'm sure Gatland will want to look at all the resources at his disposal. He knows what Hook brings to the metaphorical table - and also what he doesn't bring.

Yeah, that is a quandry luckless. Do you pick him because of his ability to cover positions? I say yes. He can cover 12-13 okish but he is also a decent 15 from what i have seen from him when he has played there.

I'd be inclined to disagree with you, Billy - but I really hope Hook gets it together in Perpignan because he still has a lot to offer.

I'm with Luckless on this - on form he offers a lot (though still has weaknesses) and can challenge at both 10 or 12/13, but he's never been anything other than a liability/problem for the team at 15 because he's suspect defensively (which means people are always covering, over compensating) and doesn't really come into the line well, so doesn't offer much in attack (besides his kicking). Like I say If on form then yes get him on the bench, if not (as his form is now) then he's not good enough to play 10 at the standard required, we have better on form centres to go on the bench, and as said above he's not a FB but we have better cover there anyway.

I really hope he does as i do like watching him play. I just cant see it happening.
Wales need a strong 10 that is consistent, not a loose cannon and i think that Hook is a loose cannon.

At 15 he can be more creative when taking the ball into contact without worrying too much on being isolated as most of the players will be in front of him and will get to him quicker.

Not sure how many games Gardiner has played tbh this season, think he's come on more as a 2nd half replacement and has been playing more for Llanelli, but by all accounts he's no where near the levels he reached last season. Really hope he kicks on.

I agree that he is not a 15 but thats the position that i see him playing better than 12-13.

At FB Hook gets left out of the game as his positioning is poor, so there's space for the other team to attack and when we have the ball he doesn't come into the line properly or at the right angles meaning that he rarely gets the ball in dangerous positions, and when he gets the ball kicked at him he hasn't got Halfpenny/Byrnes pace to make it through a broken midfield before the hole is closed and he's tackled.

His only plus at FB is his boot.

at the moment, hook doesnt warrant a place on the bench for me. the only time he will do, is if our back up 10/centre is injured.

that, or his form improves dramatically and he irons out some of the obvious flaws in his defense. To do this, he needs to settle on 1 position with his club and compete there before coming back for Wales.

As it stands he has a number of players in front of him in every position he can cover.

Priestland/Jones/Robinson/Biggar are all better flyhalfs.

Roberts/JD2/SW2/Hughes/Hewitt/Bishop/Beck are all better centres.

Halfpenny/Byrne/B.Davies (even Fish/Checkai) are better full backs.

If he plays better at 15 than 12-13 then he must be shocking at centre lol.

Comfort I don't think Hewitt is a better centre than him and you missed out Tovey at FH, Stoddart and Tovey at FB

I decided not to include them as they've been injured and I ahvent seen them play for a while.

I think he certainly is defensively, and straightens the line, something Hook seems incapable of doing in the centre. It may sound a bit far-fetched, but probably not all that when thinking about it.

Hooks one of the best rugby players in the country, unfortunately, he hasnt nailed down the technical aspects of any 1 position, and his inclusion unbalances the team. Hewitt does the exact opposite, whilst he has nowhere near the level of skill (and dare i say x-factor) of Hook, he balances a team and does the things he's supposed to do.

I dont rate him as a centre at all smirnoff, at best he is adequate cover there.

I really must be seeing something that you guys arent because when i have seen him play fullback, he has actually done well. Granted i dont see much of him at club level but that will change with his move to France.

I suppose that's a good point about Hewitt - when you put it like that. Just not sure he's Int class.

Stoddart played very well before his injury and has been constantly improving and should be fit in around 2-3 weeks.
Tovey by all reports has been playing pretty good this season, and I think is a much better player than Robinson.

You must be seeing stuff I'm not as you say - as I've never seen him be anything other than ok at FB, and many times a lot worse - while he played some of his most consistent games for Wales in a long time at centre with Roberts, and always looked more comfortable there (still with problems straightening the line and defensively) with more attacking intent.

Don't think Ben Morgan should be in there on form. Tbh I'm not that fussed about going out of our way to seal the allegiance of a residency-qualified player who's looking average at the time of selection. Having said that, the fact that Faletau and Ryan Jones are the only stand-out #8 candidates currently playing in Wales might well be in Morgan's favour. But nonetheless, there's still no guarantee he'd pick us over England if they came a'calling.

Not sure I'd have expat Hook in there playing the way he is. Tovey could be up for contention, as could Stephen Jones if he's playing well and hasn't announced his int'l retirement.

Being a bit conservative considering Halfpenny a winger aren't we? His tackling has picked up again, his high ball reliability has been considerable and he has generally stood out as Wales' best RWC fullback, undoubtedly above Byrne on form. Not to say I'd omit the latter but Stoddart could equally be considered a better winger than a 15.

I think Hook can perform in all of the positions listed above, but if hes given time there to learn each aspect of play.

An example of Hook at FB:

- Defensive positioning is average (at club level - not good enough internationally)
- He tries to tackle like a 10 (he goes high, we saw against SA when on the try line he went high and got knocked back in the tackle by Steyn and they scored, even Byrne would have smashed him from the side at waist height into touch stopping the score - tackling at 10 and 15 is different at international level)
- His counter attacking from loose kicks seems great initially as he always break the gainline and gets behind teams, then you realise hes run completely away from all of his support and he throws a nothing pass and gets turned over or gets tackled and gets turned over.
- Kicking - excellant
- He just doesnt come into the line from FB, which in turn unbalances the attack and allows defences to drift as theres no threat coming back against the grain or keeping the line honest. This means theres always numbers in the defensive line and sending Jamie at them will get us maybe 1 phase of decent ball a possession, and thus we revert to the kickball game of the last couple of years.

Now im a big Hook fan, but fully believe he doesnt deserve to be in the welsh squad at the moment, purely because he hasnt nailed down a position, and thus his weaknesses will always unbalance the squad at international level because the opposition is usually good enough to exploit the holes his inclusion brings. Hes an exceptionally talented rugby player, but unless you have the requirements of a position nailed down, you will always be exposed internationally - this is the problem with hook.

IMO

Good points Comfort, that's what I was trying to say. And what you said above disproves the argument that you have to get Hook on the field somewhere because of his attacking threat as at FB and anywhere else when he's off form he has no attacking threat and nullify's everyone else's attacking opportunities.

On Hook all I can say in his favour is that he's been messed around by too many coaches in too many positions. People refer to him as a versatile back but, and this is just my impression, he's not. Versatiles are able to adapt at least to some extent to each successive position. In this case Hook may be capably versatile at club level but for Wales he just looks lost, like a player recklessly thrown around in positions he doesn't want to play and can't play. For all my praise of Gatland, his insistence on sticking Hook at fullback time and time again has mystified me from the start. With Hook starting at 15 Wales have never looked like a team going forward and I hope it stops here and now.

That can only be used to defend Hook to such an extent. His career has been hit and miss from the start. Even during periods when coaches have stuck with him in one position, his increasingly woeful performances there have forced him to give way to a better competitor. His initial switch to centre in 2010 came after months of shockers at fly-half. Eventually he outstayed his welcome in midfield and didn't look anything above ordinary anymore. Now he's switched back to 10 and the same cycle just goes on. First he looks great before deteriorating to nothing. If Wales was the world Hook would be France, either he has it all or he doesn't have anything. This is nobody's fault but his own.

Would still be far happier if Gatland uses Halfpenny at XV (where I said he should be for ages) and Stoddart on wing rather than other way around.

My squad of 33. No room for Wellies, Hook, Powell, Nuggett or Byrne. Hook needs time to rebuild his confidence and find a position and stick with it. The others are the past.

1. Gethin, James,
2. Smiler, Hibbard, Bennett
3. Adam, Mitchell
4. Charteris, Evans
5. AWJ, Bradley
6. Lydiate, McCusker
7. Warburton, Tipuric
8. Faletau, Ryan Jones (Morgan if he opts for wales)
9. Phillips, L Williams, R Webb
10. Preistland, Tovey, Biggar
11. Stoddart, Brew
12. Roberts, Henson
13. JD, Sc Williams
14. North, Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny, Fish

Not seen enough of Cuthbert or Fish but Eli Walker looks decent number and if Thomas can have injury free run for us at XV think he will be there or there abouts

Props

LHs - Gethin Jenkins, Paul James, Ryan Bevington (injury backup - Duncan Jones

THs - Adam Jones, Craig Mitchell (injury backup - Scott Andrews


Hooker

Huw Bennett, Matthew Rees, Ken Owens


Locks

Alun Wyn Jones, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris (injury - Lou Reed?)


Flanker

Andreus Pretorious, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric (injury backup - Josh Turnball)

No8

Toby Faletau, Ryan Jones, Ben Morgan (form depending) (injury backup - Andy Powell)

SH

Mike Phillips, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Webb (injury - Tavis Knoyle)

FH

Rhys Preistland, Jason Tovey, Nicky Robinson (injury - James Hook)

Centres

Jamie Roberts, Jonathon Davies, Scott Williams, James Hook (injury - Adam Hughes)

Wings

Morgon Stoddart, George North, Alex Cuthbert (injury - Aled Brew)

Fullback

Leigh Halfpenny (injury Chris Czekaj)