JMM/Manny - 24/7 on HBO

Caught a half-hour of JMM/Manny - 24/7 on HBO yesterday.

Got to say that Marquez does look in fantastic shape probably due to his new strength and conditioning coach, Angel Fernandez. Had to laugh when he talked about a few things that had changed in his routine. He admitted that he was not sorry to give up drinking his own urine every day!! Who would have advised him that this was a good idea in the first place? Is this a common thing for boxers to do?

i saw that and i was like... um... is drinking your urine good for you?

I think Madonna does it as well. She is a strange one mind

Steffan wrote:I think Madonna does it as well. She is a strange one mind

what on earth happened to good old protein shakes?

Lucozade sport anyone?

These 24/7s have been painfully boring the manny ones always are. Same old rubbish from Roach and Ariza and someone else with very little chance telling us how he's going to beat Manny. Without the Mayweathers 24/7s are awful.

sadly i must agree. the mayweathers are very entertaining borderline insane! almost car crash tv at timer but so great at what they bring to the table.

I always thought Ricky's 24/7's were entertaining, in fact my main complaint for the Hatton Pacman 24/7, was that there was too much Pacman an not enough Hatton.

I cant even bring myself to watch this 24/7, listening to Roach an Manny tell us how this will prove who is the better fighter in their trilogy, after they ran from JMM an waited for the right to fight him, its a complete con job and frankly, despite the payday, JMM deserves better.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

Steffan wrote:I think Madonna does it as well. She is a strange one mind

what on earth happened to good old protein shakes?

Madonna has them as well

Day V Lately wrote:I cant even bring myself to watch this 24/7, listening to Roach an Manny tell us how this will prove who is the better fighter in their trilogy, after they ran from JMM an waited for the right to fight him, its a complete con job and frankly, despite the payday, JMM deserves better.

Well he had a win and a draw...

They fought twice Day V, wouldn't call that running, after a draw in their first fight. You sound just as bitter and clueless as many of the Anti-Pacquaio brigade - let me guess, you think Floyd Mayweather is a top 10 ATG?

I feel cheated and yes a little bitter that we didnt get one of boxing great trilogies when we should have got it, in no way did the second fight prove conclusively that Pacman had the better of JMM, there should have been a third fight long before now. Instead Pacman fought the awful David Diaz to begin his multi weight campaign.

I also feel that JMM has far less chance now than he did in the aftermath of their second fight, and will tarnish a great fighters legacy somewhat, which as a big JMM fan I dont want to see.

I dont see what my views on Floyd have to do with this fight, Pacquaio's firts win against Barrera was one of the most breath taking performances I have ever seen, and he's produced many more since, but I dont like the way his team has operated since the 2nd JMM fight, at best cynical match making in my view.

Agree with that. It's being built up as a trilogy but this fight couldn't be further removed from thee other two, I don't see how JMM can get a result at all and Team MP know it.

'The other two' were 4 years apart, this is less than 4 years since the last.

The other two werent four weight divisions apart though

The last time they fought, Pacquiao was 145, Marquez was 141. They wont even be 1 weight class above that.

James Toney is living proof that a natural middle / supermiddle can fight at around 230lb.

Doesn't mean he's at his most effective at the weight.

People do make too much of the weight classes, given their fighting weights last time were almost identical to what they'll be this time. Difference being they don't have to boil down for this one.

Their last match up was at super feather, JMM is now at 38, at a wieght he isnt comfortable imo. Do you think he presents the same challenge to Pacquiao now at welterweight, than he would have done at super feather or even lightweight, 4-6 months after the secong fight?

No because Pacquiao has improved and Marquez has regressed. Why should there be an automatic rematch of 2 fights that had a winner?

I'm just goingg to sit back and let Dave argue my case.

Their is no legal requirement for an automatic rematch, but sports fans like us, surely feel there should be a definitive result were possible, my argument is that it was Pacquiao who prevented this by taking on a poor challenge in David Diaz, while JMM was ready an willing, and even took on a siperior challenge at lightweight.

What I'm saying is for Team Pacquiao to claim that this fight will prove who is the better man, when they had a chance to do so after the 2nd and chose not to, leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I'll still watch it mind, in the hope that regardless of the result it can still become one of boxings great trilogies, I very much doubt it though.

You're getting a bit annoyed about fight hype.

Not been watching boxing long?

Ah, a point I disagree on. I won't watch it, well I won't pay for it at least. It's a massive con from start to finish, no interest here.

If only there was some way Marquez had of not taking the fight if he didn't feel comfortable at the weight he was offered.

Well, Pacquaio is quite clearly the better man in an overall context, it just so happens that JMM caused him some trouble. It isn't the first time this has happened to an all time great fighter. Barrera lost to Jones. Robinson lost to and then had huge problems with Turpin in a rematch. It doesn't mean they weren't better, just that that particular opponent posed them some problems.

rowley wrote:If only there was some way Marquez had of not taking the fight if he didn't feel comfortable at the weight he was offered.

Precisely. He is getting a payday, but there's no way he would risk his health or his legacy if he didn't feel in the slighest bit comfortable at the weight.

I personally think we are seeing nothing here that has not been seen throughout boxing history, the guy who puts the noughts on the end of the cheques tends to call the shots, that is why Leonard got 12 rounds against Hagler, why Jimmy McLarnin got so many opponents to agree to catchweights and why Manny gets to bring Marquez up to welter, maybe he could cut to 140 but as this would appear to level the playing field somewhat he is unlikely to do it, as I have said since this one was announced JMM always had the option of saying no. Does seem we are slaughtering Manny for doing things the person at the top of the tree has done since the start of the game.

Spot on again, Jeffrey.

New or not it is what it is and we're continually being fed a load of old nonsense. If JMM wins this I'll stand in the centre of London Bridge and eat my boxers, there, I've said it.

Manny isn't so much as leaning it in his favour but has waited long enough to virtually guarantee the win.

Manny weight vs Marquez (2008) 145 @ Super Feather
Marquez weight vs Manny (2008) 141 @ Super Feather
Manny weight vs Margarito (2010) 150 @ LMW Catch
Marquez weight vs Katsidis (2010) 145 @ Lightweight

Manny’s real weight hasn’t increased much, just isn’t cutting as much as Marquez anymore. You can see from the fact Pacquiao didn’t increase above the catchweight limit after the Margarito weigh in that he’s found his limit, he’s about the size of a regular Lightweight. Rios almost certainly walks around heavier than Pacquiao.

Not saying its unpecidented, or that JMM isnt getting a payday for the risk he's taking. Having said that Roach an co are in the position to call the weight shots as thier opponent doesnt want to turn down the payday, it being at welter is ridiculous, and this is a tactic team pacman have used too often.

Granted it was Pacquiao's achievements that put them in the position to call the shots, but I still dont like it.

Pacquiao will leave the better legacy, yes I agree, not by the same margin most people think though, but after an old JMM gets beat it will leave him 2-0 down, and possibly with a heavy drubbing in the last fight, which I think is an unfair reflection.

Who should pacman be fighting V lately and monkey? Lets work on the basis that hes not a middleweight and him and Floyd is not going to happen for whatever reason.

Not having a go, but curious to see who you guys think is a bigger challenge.

Apart from the obvious options are thin on the ground for Manny, with Bradley, Berto and a few others not excactly wetting the PPV buyers appitite.

I guess what has really annoyed me about this fight is why team Pacquiao are so up for it now, when thwy didnt want to touch JMM after the 2nd, Pacquiao saying he will shut JMM up, and various things Roach has said since the 2nd fight, they had their chance to shut him up and didnt want to know until the cards were stacked so heavily in their favour its seem a no risk option.

Again, I'll let Dave argue much of my case.

Personally I'd rather he fought a young hungry fighter but no matter who I say there will be a case against it. Berto would have been half decent, Bradley likewise, at least I'd buy into that. And yeah, I think it's the Manny camp that is winding me up here.

What you have to take into account is that another war such as those he was involved in with JMM aren't ideal for a fighter to have mid-way through their career - can't blame him for looking at other options, if they'd had the third there and then who knows, they might not still be fighting today. Not saying that is the case, but something that should be considered.

Hey Joeyjojo!

Sadly that's not me.....

Fists, we're getting a little deep there aren't we? He didn't want the fight because he might get punched a lot? Really?? Come on.... he didn't want the fight because there were easier, more winable options. The reason he has taken it now is because it isn't the fight it could have been, he should storm it. He knows it, we know it, only it's being dressed up as something it really isn't.

Nothing new in boxing I know but the Manny camp is irritating all the same.

Manny has made silly money since, won belts at all sorts of weights, battered bigger blokes, beaten the likes of Cotto...and you'd expect him to have given that up for a third fight with JMM? No, it may be entertainment but it is also a business, and he clearly made the right move.

JMM is still a high quality fighter, I expect him to lose but I wouldn't be inclined to write this fight off as a 'past it' Marquez, as he has proven in recent times that he is far from finished.

There could be something to that Fists, just feels like Mannys been let off the hook somewhat by the boxing community, with this fight an avoding it earlier.

Not much more to add on this one really without repeating myself, plus I've lost my train of thought after perving at that pic Scott put up, I'm glad to have the Monkey man agreeing with me, its just a shame that someone who agrees with me doesnt actually look like that!

you could take the less cynical way of looking at it and say that manny built himself towards fighting other guys like cotto hatton and de la hoya instead of another marquez fight. also wanted to win titles all the way from flyweight to light middle and make more money in the long run that way. just because he didnt want to fight one fighter hes had two wars with doesnt make him evil, now he knows his limit hes come back marquez is still there and not much else so hes going to take on a guy that has caused him problems stylistically.

It seems crazy to me that Manny fighting champions at light welter and welterweight is considered ducking.

lets not forget he wanted to get to light welter and welter because thats where the money was the likes of hatton and de la hoya were there for him.

Have to go against the grain here and agree with Day V on this one.

I don't think the Leonard / Hagler comparison is valid as although Leonard used his stature to get the ring size, gloves, length of fight that suited him etc. he was going up to Middle to fight the undisputed champ and a guy who hadn't lost in 11 years. It was always going to be competitive. JMM vs Manny is different.

IMO JMM will be hammered into retirement by Manny. The fight is no risk and uncompetive. That is the key difference here. A fight with JMM even 2 years ago at 140 would have been much closer. I don't really like watching uncompetitive sporting contests. I agree it's tough for Manny to a degree as, bar Floyd, he's well ahead of everyone in and around his weight class.

However, JMM was his natural rival. he had two epic contests with him and despite prevailing he was unable to conclusively demonstrate he was the superior fighter. I think that I would like to have seen Manny take JMM on earlier rather than now when, as stated, I think the contest will be uncompetitive.

It might be different if Manny were taking on colossal challenge after colossal challenge, but he hasn't been. he's been taking on low risk / high reward in-house Top Rank fighters. He's a great fighter but this fight will prove nothing and I do feel a bit disappointed not to have seen a third fight between these two take place when it would have meant something.

Gent it was me who made the Hagler Leonard point and all I was trying to express is the guy who brings the money to the table in the fight tends to call the shots and for me this is just another example of this. I actually agree this fight will be pretty one sided and in terms of competitiveness or a guy stepping out of his comfort zone obviously there is no comparison with what Ray did with Marvin. However think my general point was that Marquez had the option to say no to the fight, even more so has he has already dipped his toe in the welterweight pool. This suggests to me one of two things, either he feels he did things wrong against Floyd and can adjust or he is greedy, either way is pretty much his choice.

Is not a match that gets me pumped up but as I have said on countless times both Manny and Floyd are so far in front of the chasing pack unless they either fight each other or move up a couple more weights there will always be a feeling of disappointment whoever they fight.

they are both top rank fighters,so marquez will not be allowed to win.he might be allowed to look good in the first few rounds,and thats it.

i thought marquez was a golden boy fighter? could be wrong though!

rowley wrote:Gent it was me who made the Hagler Leonard point and all I was trying to express is the guy who brings the money to the table in the fight tends to call the shots and for me this is just another example of this. I actually agree this fight will be pretty one sided and in terms of competitiveness or a guy stepping out of his comfort zone obviously there is no comparison with what Ray did with Marvin. However think my general point was that Marquez had the option to say no to the fight, even more so has he has already dipped his toe in the welterweight pool. This suggests to me one of two things, either he feels he did things wrong against Floyd and can adjust or he is greedy, either way is pretty much his choice.

Is not a match that gets me pumped up but as I have said on countless times both Manny and Floyd are so far in front of the chasing pack unless they either fight each other or move up a couple more weights there will always be a feeling of disappointment whoever they fight.

I take your point Rowley and it is a valid one, indeed it is not the weight or even any further stipulation that Manny may have made which I take issue with. It is merely the timing of the contest which I find so disappointing. Had the fight taken place a few years ago I believe it would have been competitive. Manny still to triumph but competitive nonetheless.

JMM is a warrior, he could have refused the fight had he wished but why would he? he will doubtless believe he is capable of winning. Perhaps he is. But it is a common trait among elite sportsmen to have unwavering faith in their own abilities and it is not uncommon perhaps for this faith to border or even stray into outright denial. I don't think any resolve or faith that JMM has in himself will help him in this fight.

It seems as though Manny (or Manny's people) has decided to take the fight only now as JMM no longer seems to be a genuine threat. It stands to reason, judging by Manny's stout refusal to fight JMM earlier, that were JMM to pose a real and genuine threat then the fight would not have been made and it is that which I find so frustrating. This fight will prove nothing now had it been made earlier it might have.

Gentleman01 wrote:

rowley wrote:Gent it was me who made the Hagler Leonard point and all I was trying to express is the guy who brings the money to the table in the fight tends to call the shots and for me this is just another example of this. I actually agree this fight will be pretty one sided and in terms of competitiveness or a guy stepping out of his comfort zone obviously there is no comparison with what Ray did with Marvin. However think my general point was that Marquez had the option to say no to the fight, even more so has he has already dipped his toe in the welterweight pool. This suggests to me one of two things, either he feels he did things wrong against Floyd and can adjust or he is greedy, either way is pretty much his choice.

Is not a match that gets me pumped up but as I have said on countless times both Manny and Floyd are so far in front of the chasing pack unless they either fight each other or move up a couple more weights there will always be a feeling of disappointment whoever they fight.

I take your point Rowley and it is a valid one, indeed it is not the weight or even any further stipulation that Manny may have made which I take issue with. It is merely the timing of the contest which I find so disappointing. Had the fight taken place a few years ago I believe it would have been competitive. Manny still to triumph but competitive nonetheless.

JMM is a warrior, he could have refused the fight had he wished but why would he? he will doubtless believe he is capable of winning. Perhaps he is. But it is a common trait among elite sportsmen to have unwavering faith in their own abilities and it is not uncommon perhaps for this faith to border or even stray into outright denial. I don't think any resolve or faith that JMM has in himself will help him in this fight.

It seems as though Manny (or Manny's people) has decided to take the fight only now as JMM no longer seems to be a genuine threat. It stands to reason, judging by Manny's stout refusal to fight JMM earlier, that were JMM to pose a real and genuine threat then the fight would not have been made and it is that which I find so frustrating. This fight will prove nothing now had it been made earlier it might have.

Its lack of options though, thats driving the fight more than anything else. I dont think its been a calculated strategy to wait until now to fight Marquez again but in between their last fight and now Pacquiao and Mayweather have basically beaten everyone in the welterweight division. I agree that the match will probably count for little but given the fights available realistically to Pacquiao, I dont think its that bad an option and I think its a case of there being few other fights that can be as financially successful or as credible as this one unless it means Pacquiao having to fight in the middleweight divisions.

Day V Lately wrote:I always thought Ricky's 24/7's were entertaining, in fact my main complaint for the Hatton Pacman 24/7, was that there was too much Pacman an not enough Hatton.

I cant even bring myself to watch this 24/7, listening to Roach an Manny tell us how this will prove who is the better fighter in their trilogy, after they ran from JMM an waited for the right to fight him, its a complete con job and frankly, despite the payday, JMM deserves better.

You're spot on to feel that way. I think it was after Pacquiao had beaten David Diaz he was asked about the possibility of a third fight with JMM. His response was that "that business is finished". That to me indicates that he wanted no more to do with Marquez because he knew he'd never have an easy night's work and probably felt deep down that Marquez could beat him.

Lo and behold: a few years later after Pacquiao has managed to rocket through the weight classes not only carrying up his speed but seemingly carrying a decent dig some forty pounds above the weight he first fought at-almost a 40% increase-and he's willing to fight a Marquez who is starting to show signs of age. Add to this that Pacquiao simply HAS to have the fight at 144 because he apparently has such trouble making light welter or 135...

Roach has become a caricature of himself and Ariza...there's something about him too that smacks of sycophancy.

Marquez had two chances to beat him, and didn't succeed on either occasion (though it was obviously extremely tight)...how many chances should a man have?

Also, as I think Jeff or Chris rightly said, Manny could make 140 yes, but he is the top dog, he makes the calls and there is no need for him to drop to 140 if Marquez is willing to fight at 144. This has been the case with the top guy throughout the history of boxing, it is nothing new. Also, as that same person rightly said, Marquez wouldn't have taken the fight if he felt he had zero chance and was going to get annihilated, would he?

Very flawed balti.